Better NBA Career? Kareem or Kobe?
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Better NBA Career? Kareem or Kobe?
Kareem
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Dave20
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 9:20 am    Post subject:

Kareem was also a great teammate and checked his ego at the door. He didn't care if he or Magic was the #1 option. Kobe is great and a fierce competitor, but his ego is one of the reasons he and Shaq didn't win 5 championships. He takes the game too serious at times, Kareem and Magic had other interest besides basketball.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 9:47 am    Post subject:

Actually, there was a very rocky period in the magic Kareem relationship. Kareem didn't like being pushed out by the youngster. But the combination of winning and the type of game magic played (which got kareem the ball in prime spots and extended his prime and career) soothed that.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 10:21 am    Post subject:

Dave20 wrote:
Kareem was also a great teammate and checked his ego at the door. He didn't care if he or Magic was the #1 option.


Not sure where you came up with this idea. Kareem's FG attempts per minute actually went up after Magic joined the team. It's not like Kareem became a second option.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 10:26 am    Post subject:

Laker Lover wrote:
Kareem better career.

Kobe better entertainment.


I disagree, watching Kareem play was sheer entertainment.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 10:29 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
Kareem had the greatest basketball career ever. Even when ignoring his high school and college careers, he is always my choice as the GOAT in the NBA.


YUP
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 10:30 am    Post subject:

paolomagma wrote:
Kareem is not underrated. He's overlooked.

Nobody ever says "MJ is better than Kareem".
Big men are usually ommited in talks of GOAT among fans which i think is ridiculous.

Kareem has one of the best basketball careers ever. I don't think his all-time pts record will be beat for a long long time. Kobe is the deadliest scorer we've seen in our lifetime and he's still more than 3 years away from Kareem's record.


Kareem = greatest high school player ever
Kareem = greatest college player ever
Kareem = greatest NBA player ever
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 10:32 am    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
Oliver Reed wrote:
activeverb wrote:
If Kareem retired after his 6-year career with the Bucks, he'd still make the all-time Top 50 Team.


Shaq made Top 50 after 4 years.



True. But that, in my opinion, was a little different. That was in expectation of what he would do. I think if Kareem retired after 6 years, he would have made the team. I don't think Shaq would have made it if he had retired about 4 years.


Shaq and Kareem impacted the game to such an extensive impact that the rules were changed to negate some of their impact. You cannot say that about Kobe, MJ, Bird, Magic or any other player.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 10:37 am    Post subject:

What's amazing to me is that Kareem is still the Bucks all time leading scorer! He left the Bucks 40 years ago and only played 6 seasons!
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 10:47 am    Post subject:

Batguano wrote:
I'm actually surprised how one-sided this is towards Kareem.

I would argue that it's AT WORST a 50/50 toss-up between the two of them.

Although personally, I voted Kobe in the poll.

Consider this:

1) While Kareem has 6 rings (1 more than Kobe), they both have the same amount of Finals MVPs (2).

2) Kareem never won a ring without another Top 5-10 GOAT candidate. (He had Big O for his first ring, Magic for the other 4).

3) Kobe managed to make it to 3 finals and win 2 chips without another Top 10 GOAT candidate on his team.

4) Kobe has more memorable moments (regular season and playoffs) than Kareem does.

5) Kobe has pretty much matched Kareem in the longevity department.

6) Kareem's 6 regular season MVPs to Kobe's 1 looks less impressive when you consider Kobe could've/should've easily won anywhere from 1 to 5 more had it not been for blatant media bias (you could make the argument for him winning it in 2003, 2006, 2007, 2009, 2010). In contrast, Kareem was awarded an MVP during the 76 season where the Lakers went 40-42 and missed the playoffs.


He had an old Oscar. IMO, Kareem is the GOAT. Kobe is and a top 10 talent. Go check the Bucks record the year before Kareem arrived and then the year he joined them. Do the same for Kobe and MJ's teams and that tells you all you need to know.
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KobeBryantCliffordBrown
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 10:53 am    Post subject:

Big Game James wrote:
I am shocked! I was all ready to come into this thread to blast all of the Kobe-ites and to ream the OP for an obviously biased poll. Then I noticed that the Captain was far ahead of Kobe in the poll!

It seems the Kobe-ites are leaving the bandwagon! LG belongs to Lakers fans once again!


This post is insulting and stupid. The question posed made the choice obvious. And we "Kobe-ites" aren't stupid. KAJ's accomplishments in the NBA dwarf any other player who has played in the league. That doesn't necessarily the better player, but certainly the most accomplished.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 10:55 am    Post subject:

I think it is a testament to Kobe's career that he is in the rare air of being able to be compared to Kareem.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 10:58 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
activeverb wrote:
Oliver Reed wrote:
activeverb wrote:
If Kareem retired after his 6-year career with the Bucks, he'd still make the all-time Top 50 Team.


Shaq made Top 50 after 4 years.



True. But that, in my opinion, was a little different. That was in expectation of what he would do. I think if Kareem retired after 6 years, he would have made the team. I don't think Shaq would have made it if he had retired about 4 years.


Shaq and Kareem impacted the game to such an extensive impact that the rules were changed to negate some of their impact. You cannot say that about Kobe, MJ, Bird, Magic or any other player.


Most of the rule changes attributed to a single player have been bigs -- Kareem's dunking in college. Mikan and Wilt.

Only rule change I know about for Shaq was about fouling, but that was kind of a negative -- it was because he couldn't shoot free throws.

They don't officially say a rule change was due to a single player, but lots of people would trace rule changes to Iverson, Reggie Miller, Charles Barkley, Trent Tucker, and other guys.

There are no end of comments about how rules were changed for Jordan, and some people feel the palming rules were loosened up for Magic, though not officially changed. But all that's debatable and in the eye of the beholder.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 11:06 am    Post subject:

Kareem

My goats are

Magic
Bird
Jordan
Kareem
Russell
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 11:07 am    Post subject:

The zone defense was allowed after Shaq had dominated the league for a few seasons. That allowed double and triple teaming him.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 11:08 am    Post subject:

24 wrote:
I rank them Magic, Cap, and Kobe.


As far as how they performed as Lakers, this is my own ranking of the trio.

In terms of overall basketball careers, I would have Kareem #1 then Magic then Kobe.

Taking a look at some of the more relevant statistics for Magic, Kareem and Kobe as Lakers.


Titles -- all have 5
Finals appearances -- Magic 9, Kareem 8, Kobe 7
MVPs -- Magic 3, Kareem 3, Kobe 1
Finals MVPs -- Magic 3, Kobe 2, Kareem 1
Years missed the playoffs/total years -- Magic 0/13, Kareem 1/14, Kobe 3/19


The year that Kareem missed the playoffs with the Lakers, he was league MVP.

The numbers are close, but Magic and Cap have the slight team edge (more Finals appearances) as well as the slight individual edge (more combined MVPs and Finals MVPs) over Kobe. Kobe has the most years with the club, but he also has missed out on the postseason at a higher rate than either Magic or Kareem did as Lakers.

If the Lakers miss the playoffs in 2015-16, then Kobe will have been part of 50% (4 of 8 squads) of all Lakers teams in the history of the franchise who missed the playoffs.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 11:20 am    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
Sentient Meat wrote:
The reason I pointed out the 1980 championship game earlier, is because Magic took a team with Mark Landsberger and Brad Holland past Dr. J and Mo Cheeks when he was only 20 years old!!


It's a little disingenuous to suggest that Landsberger and Hollard (who played only 13 minutes in 3 games in the finals) were Magic's top teammates. The other key guys on the team, besides Magic and Kareem, were Jamaal Wilkes (Hall of Famer), Norm Nixon (2-time all-star), Michael Cooper (DPoY) and Jim Chones (who the year before put up 13-10 as a starter). So even without Kareem he was surrounded by a lot of talent.

For fun, here is the box score of game 6. You'll see the guys I mentioned played 39-43 minutes, while the two guys you mentioned only played 19 and 9 minutes

LOS ANGELES MN FG-FGA FT-FTA OR DR RB AS PF ST TO BL PTS
Chones 43 5-9 1-1 2 8 10 3 2 3 1 2 11
Wilkes 42 16-30 5-5 6 4 10 2 4 1 3 0 37
Johnson 47 14-23 14-14 3 12 15 7 3 3 5 1 42
Cooper 39 4-9 8-9 3 1 4 6 4 2 4 0 16
Nixon 40 1-10 2-2 0 3 3 9 3 1 2 1 4
Landsberger 19 2-7 1-2 3 7 10 0 4 2 1 0 5
Holland 9 3-4 2-2 0 0 0 0 2 2 1 0 8
Brynes 1 0-0 0-0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
TOTALS 45-92 33-35 17 35 52 27 22 14 18 4 123
3-PT: Johnson 0-1, Landsberger 0-1
PHILADELPHIA MN FG-FGA FT-FTA OR DR RB AS PF ST TO BL PTS
Erving 39 13-23 1-4 1 6 7 3 4 2 3 2 27
C.Jones 26 2-3 2-2 0 6 6 2 4 0 0 2 6
Dawkins 31 6-9 2-5 0 4 4 1 5 0 5 3 14
Cheeks 40 5-11 3-3 0 2 2 8 2 0 1 1 13
Hollins 26 5-13 3-4 0 1 1 6 4 0 6 0 13
B.Jones 29 4-8 0-0 4 5 9 1 4 1 1 2 8
Bibby 21 4-10 0-2 0 3 3 3 2 1 1 0 8
Mix 25 8-11 2-2 2 2 4 2 1 0 1 1 18
Spanarkel 1 0-0 0-0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 0
Toone 1 0-0 0-0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0
Richardson 1 0-1 0-0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
TOTALS 47-89 13-22 7 29 36 27 27 4 18 11 107
3-PT: Erving 0-2, Bibby 0-2, Hollins 0-1, Richardson 0-1


You're right to call me out on that point although I did remember Landsberger playing a lot and I don't think Chones ever was a factor during his Laker career. Even with Kareem... the pre Magic Lakers were just an okay team... maybe the equivalent of an 8th seed today... so it's not as ridiculous as you might say.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 11:37 am    Post subject:

Dave20 wrote:
Kareem was also a great teammate and checked his ego at the door. He didn't care if he or Magic was the #1 option. Kobe is great and a fierce competitor, but his ego is one of the reasons he and Shaq didn't win 5 championships. He takes the game too serious at times, Kareem and Magic had other interest besides basketball.


I have to 100% disagree with this statement.

It was Shaq. Yes, Kobe was difficult to get along with (still is). But they clashed because Shaq was the anti-Kobe when it came to taking the game seriously. Shaq coming in every year out of shape and then demanding to feed him the ball, was this duos downfall. There was no way a consummate perfectionist / professional would put up with that. This is the very reason I always felt that Kevin Garnett would have been Kobe's greatest teammate. They would have fed off of eachother during both of their primes.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 11:39 am    Post subject:

KobeBryantCliffordBrown wrote:
Big Game James wrote:
I am shocked! I was all ready to come into this thread to blast all of the Kobe-ites and to ream the OP for an obviously biased poll. Then I noticed that the Captain was far ahead of Kobe in the poll!

It seems the Kobe-ites are leaving the bandwagon! LG belongs to Lakers fans once again!


This post is insulting and stupid. The question posed made the choice obvious. And we "Kobe-ites" aren't stupid. KAJ's accomplishments in the NBA dwarf any other player who has played in the league. That doesn't necessarily the better player, but certainly the most accomplished.


I'm not sure where you Kobe-ites are getting that I am calling you stupid. I just prefer you guys to go hang out at Kobe.com.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 11:56 am    Post subject:

Respect Cap...nobody has ever been able to recreate the skyhook the way Kareem used it.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 4:33 pm    Post subject:

Big Game James wrote:
KobeBryantCliffordBrown wrote:
Big Game James wrote:
I am shocked! I was all ready to come into this thread to blast all of the Kobe-ites and to ream the OP for an obviously biased poll. Then I noticed that the Captain was far ahead of Kobe in the poll!

It seems the Kobe-ites are leaving the bandwagon! LG belongs to Lakers fans once again!


This post is insulting and stupid. The question posed made the choice obvious. And we "Kobe-ites" aren't stupid. KAJ's accomplishments in the NBA dwarf any other player who has played in the league. That doesn't necessarily the better player, but certainly the most accomplished.


I'm not sure where you Kobe-ites are getting that I am calling you stupid. I just prefer you guys to go hang out at Kobe.com.

Let's spend more time honoring two of the greatest basketball players of all time and less time with childish name calling.
Please.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 4:51 pm    Post subject:

Big Game James wrote:
Dave20 wrote:
Kareem was also a great teammate and checked his ego at the door. He didn't care if he or Magic was the #1 option. Kobe is great and a fierce competitor, but his ego is one of the reasons he and Shaq didn't win 5 championships. He takes the game too serious at times, Kareem and Magic had other interest besides basketball.


I have to 100% disagree with this statement.

It was Shaq. Yes, Kobe was difficult to get along with (still is). But they clashed because Shaq was the anti-Kobe when it came to taking the game seriously. Shaq coming in every year out of shape and then demanding to feed him the ball, was this duos downfall. There was no way a consummate perfectionist / professional would put up with that.
The downfall started in the 2004 finals. Shaq wasn't in great shape but he still avg 27/11 on 63% FG. Kobe avg 22 on 38% FG and shot the ball a lot more times then Shaq. He wanted it to be his team, he wasn't there mentally that series.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 4:59 pm    Post subject:

Dave20 wrote:
Big Game James wrote:
Dave20 wrote:
Kareem was also a great teammate and checked his ego at the door. He didn't care if he or Magic was the #1 option. Kobe is great and a fierce competitor, but his ego is one of the reasons he and Shaq didn't win 5 championships. He takes the game too serious at times, Kareem and Magic had other interest besides basketball.


I have to 100% disagree with this statement.

It was Shaq. Yes, Kobe was difficult to get along with (still is). But they clashed because Shaq was the anti-Kobe when it came to taking the game seriously. Shaq coming in every year out of shape and then demanding to feed him the ball, was this duos downfall. There was no way a consummate perfectionist / professional would put up with that.
The downfall started in the 2004 finals. Shaq wasn't in great shape but he still avg 27/11 on 63% FG. Kobe avg 22 on 38% FG and shot the ball a lot more times then Shaq. He wanted it to be his team, he wasn't there mentally that series.


Stats don't tell the entire story. The Pistons had only two goals on D in that series, deny Shaq the ball and send everything on every possession at Kobe. The Lakers couldn't get the ball into Shaq enough that series due to their ball denial D and they gave him single coverage if they couldn't deny. Meanwhile, Kobe was held, pushed, and covered in every single manner possible. The Pistons let Shaq get his so to speak but they didn't want Kobe to get anything because they were more afraid of him.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 5:06 pm    Post subject:

KobeBryantCliffordBrown wrote:
Dave20 wrote:
Big Game James wrote:
Dave20 wrote:
Kareem was also a great teammate and checked his ego at the door. He didn't care if he or Magic was the #1 option. Kobe is great and a fierce competitor, but his ego is one of the reasons he and Shaq didn't win 5 championships. He takes the game too serious at times, Kareem and Magic had other interest besides basketball.


I have to 100% disagree with this statement.

It was Shaq. Yes, Kobe was difficult to get along with (still is). But they clashed because Shaq was the anti-Kobe when it came to taking the game seriously. Shaq coming in every year out of shape and then demanding to feed him the ball, was this duos downfall. There was no way a consummate perfectionist / professional would put up with that.
The downfall started in the 2004 finals. Shaq wasn't in great shape but he still avg 27/11 on 63% FG. Kobe avg 22 on 38% FG and shot the ball a lot more times then Shaq. He wanted it to be his team, he wasn't there mentally that series.


Stats don't tell the entire story. The Pistons had only two goals on D in that series, deny Shaq the ball and send everything on every possession at Kobe. The Lakers couldn't get the ball into Shaq enough that series due to their ball denial D and they gave him single coverage if they couldn't deny. Meanwhile, Kobe was held, pushed, and covered in every single manner possible. The Pistons let Shaq get his so to speak but they didn't want Kobe to get anything because they were more afraid of him.


Yeah, the pistons decided to take Kobe out of the series and make Shaq beat them.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 5:39 pm    Post subject:

defense wrote:
Kareem

My goats are

Magic
Bird
Jordan
Kareem
Russell


Not bad what's your next five for top ten.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 5:41 pm    Post subject:

Kareem is greatest player ever if you factor in high school, College and NBA which is insanlly impressive.
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