Harden is a free throw wonder
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 8:13 pm    Post subject: Harden is a free throw wonder

I'm really losing more and more respect for this guy. I hope this isn't a trend in the NBA, these new superstars that are just free throw machines. Lebron and Wade were the previous kings, and now Harden.

I just saw the 50 point headline and my first thought was "gee, I wonder how many free throws he had", well he had 22/25!! That's crazy, that's like half his points.

It's one thing to just get free throws one game, it's another to be fishing for it. It's legal I guess, so who cares. Sucks.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 8:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Harden is a free throw wonder

SuperboyReformed wrote:
I'm really losing more and more respect for this guy. I hope this isn't a trend in the NBA, these new superstars that are just free throw machines. Lebron and Wade were the previous kings, and now Harden.

I just saw the 50 point headline and my first thought was "gee, I wonder how many free throws he had", well he had 22/25!! That's crazy, that's like half his points.

It's one thing to just get free throws one game, it's another to be fishing for it. It's legal I guess, so who cares. Sucks.


<shrugs> DH10 had 39 FT attempts one game during his season here ... and his point total for the game? 39 points.

50 points with 25 FTA isn't terribly surprising for a guy whose style of play relies on getting to the line ...
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 8:41 pm    Post subject:

Kobe had 53 against the Mavs in 07-08 on 20-27 from the line.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 9:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Harden is a free throw wonder

SuperboyReformed wrote:
I'm really losing more and more respect for this guy. I hope this isn't a trend in the NBA, these new superstars that are just free throw machines. Lebron and Wade were the previous kings, and now Harden.

I just saw the 50 point headline and my first thought was "gee, I wonder how many free throws he had", well he had 22/25!! That's crazy, that's like half his points.

It's one thing to just get free throws one game, it's another to be fishing for it. It's legal I guess, so who cares. Sucks.


Denver is playing Faried at center, he was pretty just driving and either scoring or getting fouled. He jacked up some shots late, but he'd taken a grand total of 8 jump shot attempts after 3 quarters when he had 38 points.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 9:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Harden is a free throw wonder

SuperboyReformed wrote:
I hope this isn't a trend in the NBA, these new superstars that are just free throw machines. .


Harden is averaging 11 free throws a game. That's about the same as most of the big free throw guys over the past 25 years.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 11:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Harden is a free throw wonder

activeverb wrote:
SuperboyReformed wrote:
I hope this isn't a trend in the NBA, these new superstars that are just free throw machines. .


Harden is averaging 11 free throws a game. That's about the same as most of the big free throw guys over the past 25 years.

His free throw rate is higher than most of those guys though, right up there with Wade during his D-whistle days.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 11:27 pm    Post subject:

Once you flop, you just can't stop.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 11:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Harden is a free throw wonder

KB24DB wrote:
activeverb wrote:
SuperboyReformed wrote:
I hope this isn't a trend in the NBA, these new superstars that are just free throw machines. .


Harden is averaging 11 free throws a game. That's about the same as most of the big free throw guys over the past 25 years.

His free throw rate is higher than most of those guys though, right up there with Wade during his D-whistle days.


Harden is averaging 11 per game. The other yearly leaders in the last couple of decades were:

Durant: 10 per game
Howard: 11-12 per game
Kobe: 10 per game
Iverson: 12 per game
Stoudmire: 10 per game
Shaq: 11-13 per game

So Harden is fairly typical. Wade, by the way, has never led the league in FT per game. His career high is 11 per game.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 1:44 am    Post subject: Re: Harden is a free throw wonder

activeverb wrote:
KB24DB wrote:
activeverb wrote:
SuperboyReformed wrote:
I hope this isn't a trend in the NBA, these new superstars that are just free throw machines. .


Harden is averaging 11 free throws a game. That's about the same as most of the big free throw guys over the past 25 years.

His free throw rate is higher than most of those guys though, right up there with Wade during his D-whistle days.


Harden is averaging 11 per game. The other yearly leaders in the last couple of decades were:

Durant: 10 per game
Howard: 11-12 per game
Kobe: 10 per game
Iverson: 12 per game
Stoudmire: 10 per game
Shaq: 11-13 per game

So Harden is fairly typical. Wade, by the way, has never led the league in FT per game. His career high is 11 per game.


He's only at 10, and he was behind Westbrook until this game (who had 36 points with 22 free throws just yesterday)
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 5:00 am    Post subject: Re: Harden is a free throw wonder

activeverb wrote:
KB24DB wrote:
activeverb wrote:
SuperboyReformed wrote:
I hope this isn't a trend in the NBA, these new superstars that are just free throw machines. .


Harden is averaging 11 free throws a game. That's about the same as most of the big free throw guys over the past 25 years.

His free throw rate is higher than most of those guys though, right up there with Wade during his D-whistle days.


Harden is averaging 11 per game. The other yearly leaders in the last couple of decades were:

Durant: 10 per game
Howard: 11-12 per game
Kobe: 10 per game
Iverson: 12 per game
Stoudmire: 10 per game
Shaq: 11-13 per game

So Harden is fairly typical. Wade, by the way, has never led the league in FT per game. His career high is 11 per game.


I just reviewed the data from Basketball-Reference.com ...

Since the 2003/04 season, the following list represents the number of games (regular season or Playoffs) with 25 or more FTA for the players noted below (inclusive of the rookie season for LeBron James and Dwyane Wade):

LeBron James: 1 (career FTA per 36 min. = 7.8)
Dwyane Wade: 1 (career FTA per 36 min. = 8.1)
Kobe Bryant: 4 (career FTA per 36 min. = 7.5)

Given the respective styles of play, I don't think we have a leg to stand on when it comes to lodging complaints about FT attempts ...

(DH10 has one 25 or more FTA game apiece with the Magic, Lakers and Rockets in his career ... the Magic and Lakers games in question featured 39 FT attempts ... wow)


Last edited by the association on Fri Mar 20, 2015 5:13 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 5:08 am    Post subject: Re: Harden is a free throw wonder

the association wrote:
activeverb wrote:
KB24DB wrote:
activeverb wrote:
SuperboyReformed wrote:
I hope this isn't a trend in the NBA, these new superstars that are just free throw machines. .


Harden is averaging 11 free throws a game. That's about the same as most of the big free throw guys over the past 25 years.

His free throw rate is higher than most of those guys though, right up there with Wade during his D-whistle days.


Harden is averaging 11 per game. The other yearly leaders in the last couple of decades were:

Durant: 10 per game
Howard: 11-12 per game
Kobe: 10 per game
Iverson: 12 per game
Stoudmire: 10 per game
Shaq: 11-13 per game

So Harden is fairly typical. Wade, by the way, has never led the league in FT per game. His career high is 11 per game.


I just reviewed the data from Basketball-Reference.com ...

Since the 2003/04 season, the following list represents the number of games (regular season or Playoffs) with 25 or more FTA for the players noted below (inclusive of the rookie season for LeBron James and Dwyane Wade):

LeBron James: 1
Dwyane Wade: 1
Kobe Bryant: 4

I don't think we have a leg to stand on when it comes to lodging complaints about FT attempts ...

(DH10 has one game apiece with the Magic, Lakers and Rockets in his career ... the Magic and Lakers games in question featured 39 FT attempts ... wow)


Actually we do. Looking at raw numbers doesn't come close to telling the picture imo. Kobe's free throw rate for his career is 39%. Harden's is 54.5%.

MJ was at 36%.
Lebron is at 49%.
Wade is at 46%.

I'm actually surprised Dwight only has those 3 in the bag. It sure felt like other teams wilfully fouled that goon with impunity when he was with us.


Harden took Wade's fall down act to transcendent levels. Juxtapose it with his usage rate and the picture is even worse.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 5:20 am    Post subject: Re: Harden is a free throw wonder

jonnybravo wrote:
the association wrote:
activeverb wrote:
KB24DB wrote:
activeverb wrote:
SuperboyReformed wrote:
I hope this isn't a trend in the NBA, these new superstars that are just free throw machines. .


Harden is averaging 11 free throws a game. That's about the same as most of the big free throw guys over the past 25 years.

His free throw rate is higher than most of those guys though, right up there with Wade during his D-whistle days.


Harden is averaging 11 per game. The other yearly leaders in the last couple of decades were:

Durant: 10 per game
Howard: 11-12 per game
Kobe: 10 per game
Iverson: 12 per game
Stoudmire: 10 per game
Shaq: 11-13 per game

So Harden is fairly typical. Wade, by the way, has never led the league in FT per game. His career high is 11 per game.


I just reviewed the data from Basketball-Reference.com ...

Since the 2003/04 season, the following list represents the number of games (regular season or Playoffs) with 25 or more FTA for the players noted below (inclusive of the rookie season for LeBron James and Dwyane Wade):

LeBron James: 1
Dwyane Wade: 1
Kobe Bryant: 4

I don't think we have a leg to stand on when it comes to lodging complaints about FT attempts ...

(DH10 has one game apiece with the Magic, Lakers and Rockets in his career ... the Magic and Lakers games in question featured 39 FT attempts ... wow)


Actually we do. Looking at raw numbers doesn't come close to telling the picture imo. Kobe's free throw rate for his career is 39%. Harden's is 54.5%.

MJ was at 36%.
Lebron is at 49%.
Wade is at 46%.

I'm actually surprised Dwight only has those 3 in the bag. It sure felt like other teams wilfully fouled that goon when he was with impunity when he was with us.


Harden took Wade's fall down act to transcendent levels.


That lone advanced metric (FTR) fails to contemplate style of play and usage rate, though, right? It seems that it looks more favorably (as a comparison tool) upon volume shooters like Kobe and MJ.

I'm not a fan of Harden's style of play, BTW, but that style is seeming effective ...


Last edited by the association on Fri Mar 20, 2015 5:25 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 5:24 am    Post subject: Re: Harden is a free throw wonder

the association wrote:
jonnybravo wrote:
the association wrote:
activeverb wrote:
KB24DB wrote:
activeverb wrote:
SuperboyReformed wrote:
I hope this isn't a trend in the NBA, these new superstars that are just free throw machines. .


Harden is averaging 11 free throws a game. That's about the same as most of the big free throw guys over the past 25 years.

His free throw rate is higher than most of those guys though, right up there with Wade during his D-whistle days.


Harden is averaging 11 per game. The other yearly leaders in the last couple of decades were:

Durant: 10 per game
Howard: 11-12 per game
Kobe: 10 per game
Iverson: 12 per game
Stoudmire: 10 per game
Shaq: 11-13 per game

So Harden is fairly typical. Wade, by the way, has never led the league in FT per game. His career high is 11 per game.


I just reviewed the data from Basketball-Reference.com ...

Since the 2003/04 season, the following list represents the number of games (regular season or Playoffs) with 25 or more FTA for the players noted below (inclusive of the rookie season for LeBron James and Dwyane Wade):

LeBron James: 1
Dwyane Wade: 1
Kobe Bryant: 4

I don't think we have a leg to stand on when it comes to lodging complaints about FT attempts ...

(DH10 has one game apiece with the Magic, Lakers and Rockets in his career ... the Magic and Lakers games in question featured 39 FT attempts ... wow)


Actually we do. Looking at raw numbers doesn't come close to telling the picture imo. Kobe's free throw rate for his career is 39%. Harden's is 54.5%.

MJ was at 36%.
Lebron is at 49%.
Wade is at 46%.

I'm actually surprised Dwight only has those 3 in the bag. It sure felt like other teams wilfully fouled that goon when he was with impunity when he was with us.


Harden took Wade's fall down act to transcendent levels.


That lone advanced metric (FTR) fails to contemplate style of play and usage rate, though, right?


Correct, but we can see his usage rate indepently. He's actually on the low end for a "ball" dominant guard. Kobe's 05-06 season was at 39% (NBA high lol...damn Kob!) usage while Harden is at a career high 31%. In any event, I think that's the point of this conversation so to speak. That this "style" of barreling into defenders and jerking back the neck is rewarded. Defenders are straight up scared to body this guy. I don't think it can be stated enough the multiplicative effects that can occur on the court when a player plays like that. I don't have a problem if you blow by and get a call on the swipe down, but WAY too often, he's doesn't get pass his man. He's drawing the whistle while the defender is backpedaling with his face buried in their gut, jerking his neck back. That's disgusting.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 5:28 am    Post subject: Re: Harden is a free throw wonder

jonnybravo wrote:
the association wrote:
jonnybravo wrote:
the association wrote:
activeverb wrote:
KB24DB wrote:
activeverb wrote:
SuperboyReformed wrote:
I hope this isn't a trend in the NBA, these new superstars that are just free throw machines. .


Harden is averaging 11 free throws a game. That's about the same as most of the big free throw guys over the past 25 years.

His free throw rate is higher than most of those guys though, right up there with Wade during his D-whistle days.


Harden is averaging 11 per game. The other yearly leaders in the last couple of decades were:

Durant: 10 per game
Howard: 11-12 per game
Kobe: 10 per game
Iverson: 12 per game
Stoudmire: 10 per game
Shaq: 11-13 per game

So Harden is fairly typical. Wade, by the way, has never led the league in FT per game. His career high is 11 per game.


I just reviewed the data from Basketball-Reference.com ...

Since the 2003/04 season, the following list represents the number of games (regular season or Playoffs) with 25 or more FTA for the players noted below (inclusive of the rookie season for LeBron James and Dwyane Wade):

LeBron James: 1
Dwyane Wade: 1
Kobe Bryant: 4

I don't think we have a leg to stand on when it comes to lodging complaints about FT attempts ...

(DH10 has one game apiece with the Magic, Lakers and Rockets in his career ... the Magic and Lakers games in question featured 39 FT attempts ... wow)


Actually we do. Looking at raw numbers doesn't come close to telling the picture imo. Kobe's free throw rate for his career is 39%. Harden's is 54.5%.

MJ was at 36%.
Lebron is at 49%.
Wade is at 46%.

I'm actually surprised Dwight only has those 3 in the bag. It sure felt like other teams wilfully fouled that goon when he was with impunity when he was with us.


Harden took Wade's fall down act to transcendent levels.


That lone advanced metric (FTR) fails to contemplate style of play and usage rate, though, right?


Correct, but we can see his usage rate indepently. He's actually on the low end for a "ball" dominant guard. Kobe's 05-06 season was at 39% (NBA high lol...damn Kob!) usage while Harden is at a career high 31%. In any event, I think that's the point of this conversation so to speak. That this "style" of barreling into defenders and jerking back the neck is rewarded. Defenders are straight up scared to body this guy .


Agreed ... it does seem that Harden isn't taking as much real contact as I would expect to see in the Rockets games I've bothered to watch over the past few seasons.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 5:43 am    Post subject: Re: Harden is a free throw wonder

the association wrote:
jonnybravo wrote:
the association wrote:
jonnybravo wrote:
the association wrote:
activeverb wrote:
KB24DB wrote:
activeverb wrote:
SuperboyReformed wrote:
I hope this isn't a trend in the NBA, these new superstars that are just free throw machines. .


Harden is averaging 11 free throws a game. That's about the same as most of the big free throw guys over the past 25 years.

His free throw rate is higher than most of those guys though, right up there with Wade during his D-whistle days.


Harden is averaging 11 per game. The other yearly leaders in the last couple of decades were:

Durant: 10 per game
Howard: 11-12 per game
Kobe: 10 per game
Iverson: 12 per game
Stoudmire: 10 per game
Shaq: 11-13 per game

So Harden is fairly typical. Wade, by the way, has never led the league in FT per game. His career high is 11 per game.


I just reviewed the data from Basketball-Reference.com ...

Since the 2003/04 season, the following list represents the number of games (regular season or Playoffs) with 25 or more FTA for the players noted below (inclusive of the rookie season for LeBron James and Dwyane Wade):

LeBron James: 1
Dwyane Wade: 1
Kobe Bryant: 4

I don't think we have a leg to stand on when it comes to lodging complaints about FT attempts ...

(DH10 has one game apiece with the Magic, Lakers and Rockets in his career ... the Magic and Lakers games in question featured 39 FT attempts ... wow)


Actually we do. Looking at raw numbers doesn't come close to telling the picture imo. Kobe's free throw rate for his career is 39%. Harden's is 54.5%.

MJ was at 36%.
Lebron is at 49%.
Wade is at 46%.

I'm actually surprised Dwight only has those 3 in the bag. It sure felt like other teams wilfully fouled that goon when he was with impunity when he was with us.


Harden took Wade's fall down act to transcendent levels.


That lone advanced metric (FTR) fails to contemplate style of play and usage rate, though, right?


Correct, but we can see his usage rate indepently. He's actually on the low end for a "ball" dominant guard. Kobe's 05-06 season was at 39% (NBA high lol...damn Kob!) usage while Harden is at a career high 31%. In any event, I think that's the point of this conversation so to speak. That this "style" of barreling into defenders and jerking back the neck is rewarded. Defenders are straight up scared to body this guy .


Agreed ... it does seem that Harden isn't taking as much real contact as I would expect to see in the Rockets games I've bothered to watch over the past few seasons.


You'll like this gem.

http://www.sbnation.com/2015/3/15/8219427/chris-paul-totally-flopped-the-wrong-way-defending-james-harden

2 of the league's premier fall down as a first resort guy come in "contact".
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 6:00 am    Post subject: Re: Harden is a free throw wonder

jonnybravo wrote:
the association wrote:
jonnybravo wrote:
the association wrote:
jonnybravo wrote:
the association wrote:
activeverb wrote:
KB24DB wrote:
activeverb wrote:
SuperboyReformed wrote:
I hope this isn't a trend in the NBA, these new superstars that are just free throw machines. .


Harden is averaging 11 free throws a game. That's about the same as most of the big free throw guys over the past 25 years.

His free throw rate is higher than most of those guys though, right up there with Wade during his D-whistle days.


Harden is averaging 11 per game. The other yearly leaders in the last couple of decades were:

Durant: 10 per game
Howard: 11-12 per game
Kobe: 10 per game
Iverson: 12 per game
Stoudmire: 10 per game
Shaq: 11-13 per game

So Harden is fairly typical. Wade, by the way, has never led the league in FT per game. His career high is 11 per game.


I just reviewed the data from Basketball-Reference.com ...

Since the 2003/04 season, the following list represents the number of games (regular season or Playoffs) with 25 or more FTA for the players noted below (inclusive of the rookie season for LeBron James and Dwyane Wade):

LeBron James: 1
Dwyane Wade: 1
Kobe Bryant: 4

I don't think we have a leg to stand on when it comes to lodging complaints about FT attempts ...

(DH10 has one game apiece with the Magic, Lakers and Rockets in his career ... the Magic and Lakers games in question featured 39 FT attempts ... wow)


Actually we do. Looking at raw numbers doesn't come close to telling the picture imo. Kobe's free throw rate for his career is 39%. Harden's is 54.5%.

MJ was at 36%.
Lebron is at 49%.
Wade is at 46%.

I'm actually surprised Dwight only has those 3 in the bag. It sure felt like other teams wilfully fouled that goon when he was with impunity when he was with us.


Harden took Wade's fall down act to transcendent levels.


That lone advanced metric (FTR) fails to contemplate style of play and usage rate, though, right?


Correct, but we can see his usage rate indepently. He's actually on the low end for a "ball" dominant guard. Kobe's 05-06 season was at 39% (NBA high lol...damn Kob!) usage while Harden is at a career high 31%. In any event, I think that's the point of this conversation so to speak. That this "style" of barreling into defenders and jerking back the neck is rewarded. Defenders are straight up scared to body this guy .


Agreed ... it does seem that Harden isn't taking as much real contact as I would expect to see in the Rockets games I've bothered to watch over the past few seasons.


You'll like this gem.

http://www.sbnation.com/2015/3/15/8219427/chris-paul-totally-flopped-the-wrong-way-defending-james-harden

2 of the league's premier fall down as a first resort guy come in "contact".


There's so much going on in that vine ... it's a real feast for the eyes.

The sniper shot on CP3 is great and Harden's duck dive is a "classic", but the nonchalant hurdle over CP3's bear crawl at the end might be the best part.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 9:57 am    Post subject:

And this is why I don't like James Harden.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 10:03 am    Post subject:

The ability to get to the line is a skill coveted by everyone. Except when a player on another team exhibits it.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 12:14 pm    Post subject:

Good post by OP. Nothing inspiring about the guy's game or personality. Anything for the kids to emulate? Traveling and scamming your way to the foul line is what his game is mostly about. Wonderful. What else? Oh, many people seem to have forgotten about his notorious flopping. Not the characteristics of an MVP.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 12:52 pm    Post subject:

Remove free throws from the game. Worst aspect, IMO, along with all the timeouts.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 3:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Harden is a free throw wonder

SuperboyReformed wrote:
I'm really losing more and more respect for this guy. I hope this isn't a trend in the NBA, these new superstars that are just free throw machines. Lebron and Wade were the previous kings, and now Harden.

I just saw the 50 point headline and my first thought was "gee, I wonder how many free throws he had", well he had 22/25!! That's crazy, that's like half his points.

It's one thing to just get free throws one game, it's another to be fishing for it. It's legal I guess, so who cares. Sucks.


It has been for decades.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 3:18 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
And this is why I don't like James Harden.

This.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2015 8:32 am    Post subject:

Kobe should be averagin 20 free throw per game if he had dwhistle or harden calls.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2015 9:08 am    Post subject:

AllorNothing wrote:
Kobe should be averagin 20 free throw per game if he had dwhistle or harden calls.


What year do you think this is?
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2015 1:27 pm    Post subject:

Scoring by generating FTs can be fools gold. The deeper a team advances in the playoffs, the more the officials let the teams "play it out" by swallowing their whistles.
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