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non-player zealot
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 Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2015 2:39 pm Post subject: |
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| nevitt_smrek wrote: | | Good post by OP. Nothing inspiring about the guy's game or personality. Anything for the kids to emulate? |
Better the free throws than the beard that makes his face look like a skunk's ass upside down.
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nevitt_smrek
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| Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2015 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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| angrypuppy wrote: | | Scoring by generating FTs can be fools gold. The deeper a team advances in the playoffs, the more the officials let the teams "play it out" by swallowing their whistles. |
Very good point. Same thing can be said about NHL teams that tend to depend on penalties and power plays to succeed. Come postseason, they will have a tougher time adjusting.
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Dreamshake
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| Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2015 3:06 pm Post subject: Re: Harden is a free throw wonder |
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| SuperboyReformed wrote: | I'm really losing more and more respect for this guy. I hope this isn't a trend in the NBA, these new superstars that are just free throw machines. Lebron and Wade were the previous kings, and now Harden.
I just saw the 50 point headline and my first thought was "gee, I wonder how many free throws he had", well he had 22/25!! That's crazy, that's like half his points.
It's one thing to just get free throws one game, it's another to be fishing for it. It's legal I guess, so who cares. Sucks. |
Did you actually watch the game to see how often he was fouled? |
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Dreamshake
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| Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2015 3:13 pm Post subject: Re: Harden is a free throw wonder |
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| the association wrote: | | jonnybravo wrote: | | the association wrote: | | jonnybravo wrote: | | the association wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | KB24DB wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | SuperboyReformed wrote: | | I hope this isn't a trend in the NBA, these new superstars that are just free throw machines. . |
Harden is averaging 11 free throws a game. That's about the same as most of the big free throw guys over the past 25 years. |
His free throw rate is higher than most of those guys though, right up there with Wade during his D-whistle days. |
Harden is averaging 11 per game. The other yearly leaders in the last couple of decades were:
Durant: 10 per game
Howard: 11-12 per game
Kobe: 10 per game
Iverson: 12 per game
Stoudmire: 10 per game
Shaq: 11-13 per game
So Harden is fairly typical. Wade, by the way, has never led the league in FT per game. His career high is 11 per game. |
I just reviewed the data from Basketball-Reference.com ...
Since the 2003/04 season, the following list represents the number of games (regular season or Playoffs) with 25 or more FTA for the players noted below (inclusive of the rookie season for LeBron James and Dwyane Wade):
LeBron James: 1
Dwyane Wade: 1
Kobe Bryant: 4
I don't think we have a leg to stand on when it comes to lodging complaints about FT attempts ...
(DH10 has one game apiece with the Magic, Lakers and Rockets in his career ... the Magic and Lakers games in question featured 39 FT attempts ... wow) |
Actually we do. Looking at raw numbers doesn't come close to telling the picture imo. Kobe's free throw rate for his career is 39%. Harden's is 54.5%.
MJ was at 36%.
Lebron is at 49%.
Wade is at 46%.
I'm actually surprised Dwight only has those 3 in the bag. It sure felt like other teams wilfully fouled that goon when he was with impunity when he was with us.
Harden took Wade's fall down act to transcendent levels. |
That lone advanced metric (FTR) fails to contemplate style of play and usage rate, though, right? |
Correct, but we can see his usage rate indepently. He's actually on the low end for a "ball" dominant guard. Kobe's 05-06 season was at 39% (NBA high lol...damn Kob!) usage while Harden is at a career high 31%. In any event, I think that's the point of this conversation so to speak. That this "style" of barreling into defenders and jerking back the neck is rewarded. Defenders are straight up scared to body this guy . |
Agreed ... it does seem that Harden isn't taking as much real contact as I would expect to see in the Rockets games I've bothered to watch over the past few seasons. |
Harden isn't taking real contact? LMAO
I get flaming him for arguably looking for or initiating contact more than most, but to say he isn't taking it?  |
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rwongega
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the association
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| Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2015 9:37 pm Post subject: |
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| He's connecting at a robust 37.6% rate from the field in his last dozen games, so he needs to make up for his shooting woes with some freebies at the line ... |
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Treble Clef
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| Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2015 7:20 am Post subject: |
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| angrypuppy wrote: | | Scoring by generating FTs can be fools gold. The deeper a team advances in the playoffs, the more the officials let the teams "play it out" by swallowing their whistles. |
I always hear this but is it backed up by anything? Dwyane Wade got a million free throws in the playoffs and there are quite a few games where the Lakers got a ton of them and the outsiders all complained about it. |
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angrypuppy
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| Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2015 7:34 am Post subject: |
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| Treble Clef wrote: | | angrypuppy wrote: | | Scoring by generating FTs can be fools gold. The deeper a team advances in the playoffs, the more the officials let the teams "play it out" by swallowing their whistles. |
I always hear this but is it backed up by anything? Dwyane Wade got a million free throws in the playoffs and there are quite a few games where the Lakers got a ton of them and the outsiders all complained about it. |
Use your eyes; close to home we got hammered during the 2008 NBA Finals and couldn't buy a foul call, particularly Kobe and Radman. What made the Dwyane Wade performance unsettling was that his contact fouls were called more like a regular season rather than late postseason games.
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kikanga
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| Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2015 7:52 am Post subject: |
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| angrypuppy wrote: | | Scoring by generating FTs can be fools gold. The deeper a team advances in the playoffs, the more the officials let the teams "play it out" by swallowing their whistles. |
Bingo! For proof look at Harden's abysmal shooting in the first 2-3 games of the Houston-Portland playoff series last year.
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2015 7:55 am Post subject: |
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| angrypuppy wrote: | | Treble Clef wrote: | | angrypuppy wrote: | | Scoring by generating FTs can be fools gold. The deeper a team advances in the playoffs, the more the officials let the teams "play it out" by swallowing their whistles. |
I always hear this but is it backed up by anything? Dwyane Wade got a million free throws in the playoffs and there are quite a few games where the Lakers got a ton of them and the outsiders all complained about it. |
Use your eyes; close to home we got hammered during the 2008 NBA Finals and couldn't buy a foul call, particularly Kobe and Radman. What made the Dwyane Wade performance unsettling was that his contact fouls were called more like a regular season rather than late postseason games. |
I've heard this argument before, but I've never seen any proof of it. Harden's career FTr is .545 in the regular season and .540 in the playoffs. Kobe's career FTr is .388 in the regular season and .359 in the playoffs. Bearing in mind that the average quality of competition in the playoffs is higher than the average quality of competition in the regular season, I suspect that what you are saying is more perception than reality. |
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Treble Clef
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| Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2015 12:18 pm Post subject: |
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| angrypuppy wrote: | | Treble Clef wrote: | | angrypuppy wrote: | | Scoring by generating FTs can be fools gold. The deeper a team advances in the playoffs, the more the officials let the teams "play it out" by swallowing their whistles. |
I always hear this but is it backed up by anything? Dwyane Wade got a million free throws in the playoffs and there are quite a few games where the Lakers got a ton of them and the outsiders all complained about it. |
Use your eyes; close to home we got hammered during the 2008 NBA Finals and couldn't buy a foul call, particularly Kobe and Radman. What made the Dwyane Wade performance unsettling was that his contact fouls were called more like a regular season rather than late postseason games. |
I think reputations and bias comes into play more in the playoffs. Kobe was living at the line early in the playoffs in 2008 and the free throws dried up against San Antonio and Boston. Teams that have a reputation for playing physical and that the officials have a reputation for calling the game different for. I don't think there are separate rule books for the regular season and playoffs. The playoffs just feature more of the "company" refs and the games are often called in a way that favors the favorites. |
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nevitt_smrek
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| Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2015 12:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Treble Clef wrote: | | angrypuppy wrote: | | Scoring by generating FTs can be fools gold. The deeper a team advances in the playoffs, the more the officials let the teams "play it out" by swallowing their whistles. |
I always hear this but is it backed up by anything? Dwyane Wade got a million free throws in the playoffs and there are quite a few games where the Lakers got a ton of them and the outsiders all complained about it. |
The Wades and Bronzes are quicker and more explosive going to the basket. It places more pressure on defenders to stay in front, and based on the rules, they can't. The proof is in the eye test, just have any neutral set of eyes evaluate. I don't like some of the calls they get, and some are clearly phantom. But it doesn't change the fact their handles are better.
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Dreamshake
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| Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2015 12:41 pm Post subject: |
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| the association wrote: | | He's connecting at a robust 37.6% rate from the field in his last dozen games, so he needs to make up for his shooting woes with some freebies at the line ... |
Yeah, he's been shooting horribly. I know he's carrying a heavy load this season but he still needs to work on his conditioning. I think he's gassed. |
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Dreamshake
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| Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2015 12:44 pm Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | | angrypuppy wrote: | | Scoring by generating FTs can be fools gold. The deeper a team advances in the playoffs, the more the officials let the teams "play it out" by swallowing their whistles. |
Bingo! For proof look at Harden's abysmal shooting in the first 2-3 games of the Houston-Portland playoff series last year. |
When he had 10, 4 and 11 attempts? Looks like his regular season to me. |
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nevitt_smrek
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| Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2015 12:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | angrypuppy wrote: | | Treble Clef wrote: | | angrypuppy wrote: | | Scoring by generating FTs can be fools gold. The deeper a team advances in the playoffs, the more the officials let the teams "play it out" by swallowing their whistles. |
I always hear this but is it backed up by anything? Dwyane Wade got a million free throws in the playoffs and there are quite a few games where the Lakers got a ton of them and the outsiders all complained about it. |
Use your eyes; close to home we got hammered during the 2008 NBA Finals and couldn't buy a foul call, particularly Kobe and Radman. What made the Dwyane Wade performance unsettling was that his contact fouls were called more like a regular season rather than late postseason games. |
I've heard this argument before, but I've never seen any proof of it. Harden's career FTr is .545 in the regular season and .540 in the playoffs. Kobe's career FTr is .388 in the regular season and .359 in the playoffs. Bearing in mind that the average quality of competition in the playoffs is higher than the average quality of competition in the regular season, I suspect that what you are saying is more perception than reality. |
What Harden does is not pretty to watch, but it's effective. When going to the hoop, the intent is not to actually make the hoop or even put up a shot. It's just "hey refs, blow the whistle."
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the association
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| Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2015 8:16 pm Post subject: |
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Harden was 21/22 from the line tonight against Indiana.
The Pacers team? 12/19 ... |
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ocho
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| Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2015 6:49 am Post subject: |
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| the association wrote: | Harden was 21/22 from the line tonight against Indiana.
The Pacers team? 12/19 ... |
Game before that he shot 5 FTs. |
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Dreamshake
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| Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2015 7:20 am Post subject: |
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Repost. Would love to see your response to this data, the association.
| Quote: | Myth: James Harden shoots a historically high number of free throws, proving that he is the only scorer ever to rely on the refs.
Fact: Here are just a few of the 100 NBA player-seasons that averaged more free throws per game than James Harden. Should these guys get an asterisk for relying on the refs too?
1987 Michael Jordan
1988 Michael Jordan (MVP!)
1988 Charles Barkley
1989 Charles Barkley
2005 Kobe Bryant
2006 Kobe Bryant
2006 Lebron James
2008 Lebron James
2010 Lebron James (MVP!)
2006 Dwyane Wade
2007 Dwayne Wade
2010 Kevin Durant
2013 James Harden (ha!)
2008 Dwight Howard
2009 Dwight Howard
2011 Dwight Howard
2012 Dwight Howard
2005 Allen Iverson
2006 Allen Iverson
2009 Kevin Martin
1994 David Robinson
1995 David Robinson (MVP!)
Shaq, 9 times (MVP!)
Karl Malone, 6 times (MVP!)
and everyone good from the 60s, many times.
Furthermore, those within 0.2 attempts per game of Harden include such luminaries as Gilbert Arenas, Jerry Stackhouse, and Corey freaking Maggette. |
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Dreamshake
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| Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2015 7:22 am Post subject: |
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| nevitt_smrek wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | angrypuppy wrote: | | Treble Clef wrote: | | angrypuppy wrote: | | Scoring by generating FTs can be fools gold. The deeper a team advances in the playoffs, the more the officials let the teams "play it out" by swallowing their whistles. |
I always hear this but is it backed up by anything? Dwyane Wade got a million free throws in the playoffs and there are quite a few games where the Lakers got a ton of them and the outsiders all complained about it. |
Use your eyes; close to home we got hammered during the 2008 NBA Finals and couldn't buy a foul call, particularly Kobe and Radman. What made the Dwyane Wade performance unsettling was that his contact fouls were called more like a regular season rather than late postseason games. |
I've heard this argument before, but I've never seen any proof of it. Harden's career FTr is .545 in the regular season and .540 in the playoffs. Kobe's career FTr is .388 in the regular season and .359 in the playoffs. Bearing in mind that the average quality of competition in the playoffs is higher than the average quality of competition in the regular season, I suspect that what you are saying is more perception than reality. |
What Harden does is not pretty to watch, but it's effective. When going to the hoop, the intent is not to actually make the hoop or even put up a shot. It's just "hey refs, blow the whistle." |
Actually, the intent is to score with contact (and 1). |
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the association
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| Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2015 7:32 am Post subject: |
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| ocho wrote: | | the association wrote: | Harden was 21/22 from the line tonight against Indiana.
The Pacers team? 12/19 ... |
Game before that he shot 5 FTs. |
And 25 FT attempts the game before that one. In fact, Harden has had 18 or more FT attempts in 5 of his last 11 games.
The dude is scoring 3.44 points for every FG made this season thus far ... that's borderline insane. LeBron has never crested 3.00 in a season, nor has Wade. Kobe has done so a few x, but nearly 3 1/2 points for every FG made? That's insanity ...
Guys get calls all the time. I think Kobe was the beneficiary of a TON of favorable calls in his career (I know, I know ... some of you disagree and feel the diametric opposite ... we'll never agree on this issue). I don't know to what extent, if any, Harden is benefitting from similar calls, but I'm merely commenting on the statistical anomaly of his 2015 season. Perhaps not historic, but crazy anyway ... |
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the association
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| Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2015 7:37 am Post subject: |
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| Dreamshake wrote: | Repost. Would love to see your response to this data, the association.
| Quote: | Myth: James Harden shoots a historically high number of free throws, proving that he is the only scorer ever to rely on the refs.
Fact: Here are just a few of the 100 NBA player-seasons that averaged more free throws per game than James Harden. Should these guys get an asterisk for relying on the refs too?
1987 Michael Jordan
1988 Michael Jordan (MVP!)
1988 Charles Barkley
1989 Charles Barkley
2005 Kobe Bryant
2006 Kobe Bryant
2006 Lebron James
2008 Lebron James
2010 Lebron James (MVP!)
2006 Dwyane Wade
2007 Dwayne Wade
2010 Kevin Durant
2013 James Harden (ha!)
2008 Dwight Howard
2009 Dwight Howard
2011 Dwight Howard
2012 Dwight Howard
2005 Allen Iverson
2006 Allen Iverson
2009 Kevin Martin
1994 David Robinson
1995 David Robinson (MVP!)
Shaq, 9 times (MVP!)
Karl Malone, 6 times (MVP!)
and everyone good from the 60s, many times.
Furthermore, those within 0.2 attempts per game of Harden include such luminaries as Gilbert Arenas, Jerry Stackhouse, and Corey freaking Maggette. |
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I just noticed this post after I submitted my previous one, but maybe my post just above provides you with some further data points to consider. And at first blush, I have to ask whether those instances you noted above are based on Per Game data (meaningless unless it standardizes for playing time) or Per 36 Minutes data? And did I provide the quotation for that myth? I don't recall having done so, but let me know if you believe otherwise.
Also, I don't think asterisks are part of the discussion (at least for me). I'm not inclined to de-legitimize what's he doing on the basis that it's not my preferred style of play, or that the MVP award is a meaningless achievement if he's awarded it this year ... |
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qiantom
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| Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2015 8:07 am Post subject: |
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| Dreamshake wrote: | | nevitt_smrek wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | angrypuppy wrote: | | Treble Clef wrote: | | angrypuppy wrote: | | Scoring by generating FTs can be fools gold. The deeper a team advances in the playoffs, the more the officials let the teams "play it out" by swallowing their whistles. |
I always hear this but is it backed up by anything? Dwyane Wade got a million free throws in the playoffs and there are quite a few games where the Lakers got a ton of them and the outsiders all complained about it. |
Use your eyes; close to home we got hammered during the 2008 NBA Finals and couldn't buy a foul call, particularly Kobe and Radman. What made the Dwyane Wade performance unsettling was that his contact fouls were called more like a regular season rather than late postseason games. |
I've heard this argument before, but I've never seen any proof of it. Harden's career FTr is .545 in the regular season and .540 in the playoffs. Kobe's career FTr is .388 in the regular season and .359 in the playoffs. Bearing in mind that the average quality of competition in the playoffs is higher than the average quality of competition in the regular season, I suspect that what you are saying is more perception than reality. |
What Harden does is not pretty to watch, but it's effective. When going to the hoop, the intent is not to actually make the hoop or even put up a shot. It's just "hey refs, blow the whistle." |
Actually, the intent is to score with contact (and 1). |
Actually, the intent is often to draw contact and then throw up a shot. |
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Dreamshake
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Posts: 13711
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| Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2015 8:28 am Post subject: |
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| the association wrote: | | I just noticed this post after I submitted my previous one, but maybe my post just above provides you with some further data points to consider. And at first blush, I have to ask whether those instances you noted above are based on Per Game data (meaningless unless it standardizes for playing time) or Per 36 Minutes data? And did I provide the quotation for that myth? I don't recall having done so, but let me know if you believe otherwise. |
You didn't provide the quote for that myth. I just reposted the entire post showing the data.
It's based on per-game data, which is not meaningless. Harden is taking 10.1 attempts a night, on 36.8 mpg (3.64 attempts per minute). Of the 100 instances of guys taking more FTA's than Harden is now, these are the years where guys got more attempts per minute than him (51 examples):
Karl Malone* 1997-98 3.667392883
Bailey Howell* 1960-61 3.686313686
Bob Pettit* 1955-56 3.695767196
Karl Malone* 1992-93 3.705164993
Kevin Martin 2008-09 3.706453455
Karl Malone* 1990-91 3.728545619
Elgin Baylor* 1959-60 3.731168831
Rick Barry* 1966-67 3.734415432
Wilt Chamberlain* 1964-65 3.737122156
Alonzo Mourning* 1995-96 3.740896359
Allen Iverson 2005-06 3.747584541
James Harden 2012-13 3.75188537
Bob Pettit* 1960-61 3.757447865
Oscar Robertson* 1963-64 3.785767472
Neil Johnston* 1954-55 3.786344756
Paul Pierce 2005-06 3.790094629
Shaquille O'Neal 1993-94 3.790711346
Oscar Robertson* 1960-61 3.812877264
Wilt Chamberlain* 1965-66 3.814822376
LeBron James 2009-10 3.826109391
Michael Jordan* 1987-88 3.845528455
Shaquille O'Neal 1999-00 3.849805258
Charles Barkley* 1988-89 3.870159168
Jerry West* 1964-65 3.872189947
Kevin Durant 2009-10 3.87254902
Paul Arizin* 1958-59 3.882108183
Jerry West* 1966-67 3.88986014
LeBron James 2007-08 3.918446602
Walt Bellamy* 1961-62 3.9193624
Adrian Dantley* 1981-82 3.938393839
Jack Twyman* 1959-60 3.951633987
Jerry West* 1969-70 3.959714431
Oscar Robertson* 1965-66 3.962114338
Tiny Archibald* 1971-72 3.986354776
Neil Johnston* 1952-53 4.002528445
Walt Bellamy* 1962-63 4.012135922
Kobe Bryant 2005-06 4.015931373
Allen Iverson 2004-05 4.03047619
Oscar Robertson* 1961-62 4.031070196
Kobe Bryant 2004-05 4.03390339
Oscar Robertson* 1966-67 4.102685437
Wilt Chamberlain* 1967-68 4.103551562
Moses Malone* 1981-82 4.112805616
Walt Bellamy* 1963-64 4.118932039
LeBron James 2005-06 4.130514932
Paul Arizin* 1951-52 4.161710564
Oscar Robertson* 1967-68 4.170437406
Wilt Chamberlain* 1966-67 4.208962048
Wilt Chamberlain* 1968-69 4.2732355
Neil Johnston* 1953-54 4.278296989
Oscar Robertson* 1964-65 4.303144654
| the association wrote: | | The dude is scoring 3.44 points for every FG made this season thus far ... that's borderline insane. LeBron has never crested 3.00 in a season, nor has Wade. Kobe has done so a few x, but nearly 3 1/2 points for every FG made? That's insanity ... |
No it's not. Harden takes a lot of 3's and makes 2.5 a night. In 05 Kobe scored 3.17 ppFG and only took 2 a night (3's). That same season Pierce scored 3.07 ppFG and only took 1.4. In 10 Durant scored 3.11 ppFG and only took 1.6. The leader from the chart above is Kevin Martin, with 3.68 ppFG, and he took 2.3 a night.
Not insane. The Rockets are breaking records for most 3's taken in a year. It's what the system is based on....more points per shot. |
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jonnybravo
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Joined: 21 Sep 2007
Posts: 30679
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| Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2015 12:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Dreamshake wrote: | | the association wrote: | | I just noticed this post after I submitted my previous one, but maybe my post just above provides you with some further data points to consider. And at first blush, I have to ask whether those instances you noted above are based on Per Game data (meaningless unless it standardizes for playing time) or Per 36 Minutes data? And did I provide the quotation for that myth? I don't recall having done so, but let me know if you believe otherwise. |
You didn't provide the quote for that myth. I just reposted the entire post showing the data.
It's based on per-game data, which is not meaningless. Harden is taking 10.1 attempts a night, on 36.8 mpg (3.64 attempts per minute). Of the 100 instances of guys taking more FTA's than Harden is now, these are the years where guys got more attempts per minute than him (51 examples):
Karl Malone* 1997-98 3.667392883
Bailey Howell* 1960-61 3.686313686
Bob Pettit* 1955-56 3.695767196
Karl Malone* 1992-93 3.705164993
Kevin Martin 2008-09 3.706453455
Karl Malone* 1990-91 3.728545619
Elgin Baylor* 1959-60 3.731168831
Rick Barry* 1966-67 3.734415432
Wilt Chamberlain* 1964-65 3.737122156
Alonzo Mourning* 1995-96 3.740896359
Allen Iverson 2005-06 3.747584541
James Harden 2012-13 3.75188537
Bob Pettit* 1960-61 3.757447865
Oscar Robertson* 1963-64 3.785767472
Neil Johnston* 1954-55 3.786344756
Paul Pierce 2005-06 3.790094629
Shaquille O'Neal 1993-94 3.790711346
Oscar Robertson* 1960-61 3.812877264
Wilt Chamberlain* 1965-66 3.814822376
LeBron James 2009-10 3.826109391
Michael Jordan* 1987-88 3.845528455
Shaquille O'Neal 1999-00 3.849805258
Charles Barkley* 1988-89 3.870159168
Jerry West* 1964-65 3.872189947
Kevin Durant 2009-10 3.87254902
Paul Arizin* 1958-59 3.882108183
Jerry West* 1966-67 3.88986014
LeBron James 2007-08 3.918446602
Walt Bellamy* 1961-62 3.9193624
Adrian Dantley* 1981-82 3.938393839
Jack Twyman* 1959-60 3.951633987
Jerry West* 1969-70 3.959714431
Oscar Robertson* 1965-66 3.962114338
Tiny Archibald* 1971-72 3.986354776
Neil Johnston* 1952-53 4.002528445
Walt Bellamy* 1962-63 4.012135922
Kobe Bryant 2005-06 4.015931373
Allen Iverson 2004-05 4.03047619
Oscar Robertson* 1961-62 4.031070196
Kobe Bryant 2004-05 4.03390339
Oscar Robertson* 1966-67 4.102685437
Wilt Chamberlain* 1967-68 4.103551562
Moses Malone* 1981-82 4.112805616
Walt Bellamy* 1963-64 4.118932039
LeBron James 2005-06 4.130514932
Paul Arizin* 1951-52 4.161710564
Oscar Robertson* 1967-68 4.170437406
Wilt Chamberlain* 1966-67 4.208962048
Wilt Chamberlain* 1968-69 4.2732355
Neil Johnston* 1953-54 4.278296989
Oscar Robertson* 1964-65 4.303144654
| the association wrote: | | The dude is scoring 3.44 points for every FG made this season thus far ... that's borderline insane. LeBron has never crested 3.00 in a season, nor has Wade. Kobe has done so a few x, but nearly 3 1/2 points for every FG made? That's insanity ... |
No it's not. Harden takes a lot of 3's and makes 2.5 a night. In 05 Kobe scored 3.17 ppFG and only took 2 a night (3's). That same season Pierce scored 3.07 ppFG and only took 1.4. In 10 Durant scored 3.11 ppFG and only took 1.6. The leader from the chart above is Kevin Martin, with 3.68 ppFG, and he took 2.3 a night.
Not insane. The Rockets are breaking records for most 3's taken in a year. It's what the system is based on....more points per shot. |
Where's the free throw rate and usage? You know, the one that ignores raw free throws a game and considers how much his actual usage and how many free throws he gets relative to field goals. |
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Dreamshake
Franchise Player
Joined: 05 May 2006
Posts: 13711
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| Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2015 1:44 pm Post subject: |
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| jonnybravo wrote: | | Where's the free throw rate and usage? You know, the one that ignores raw free throws a game and considers how much his actual usage and how many free throws he gets relative to field goals. |
This year Harden takes 18.1 fgPG and 10.1 ftPG. So he gets .558 ft per fg attempt. Using the same data, there are still 40 instances of players with a higher rate. Most are bigs, but most of Harden's shots that aren't 3's are drives to the basket (Rockets system).
Karl Malone* 1989-90 0.559
David Robinson* 1993-94 0.560
Karl Malone* 1997-98 0.561
Shaquille O'Neal 1998-99 0.565
Jerry West* 1965-66 0.566
Dwyane Wade 2005-06 0.568
Karl Malone* 1991-92 0.572
David Robinson* 1994-95 0.572
Paul Arizin* 1951-52 0.578
Karl Malone* 1992-93 0.580
Shaquille O'Neal 2001-02 0.583
Neil Johnston* 1953-54 0.585
Karl Malone* 1988-89 0.590
James Harden 2012-13 0.595
Shaquille O'Neal 1997-98 0.596
Shaquille O'Neal 2002-03 0.598
Adrian Dantley* 1982-83 0.618
Bailey Howell* 1960-61 0.619
Moses Malone* 1985-86 0.630
David Robinson* 1989-90 0.643
Kevin Martin 2008-09 0.648
Neil Johnston* 1954-55 0.651
Moses Malone* 1983-84 0.658
Adrian Dantley* 1983-84 0.659
Charles Barkley* 1988-89 0.661
Alonzo Mourning* 1995-96 0.664
Wilt Chamberlain* 1967-68 0.679
Shaquille O'Neal 2000-01 0.682
Wilt Chamberlain* 1969-70 0.693
Shaquille O'Neal 2004-05 0.700
Moses Malone* 1984-85 0.701
Neil Johnston* 1952-53 0.710
Eric Williams 1997-98 0.741
Charles Barkley* 1987-88 0.742
Wilt Chamberlain* 1966-67 0.761
Wilt Chamberlain* 1968-69 0.781
Dwight Howard 2011-12 0.788
Dwight Howard 2008-09 0.863
Dwight Howard 2010-11 0.874
Dwight Howard 2007-08 0.918
As far as usage, I don't know how to calculate that. You can find all that stuff on basketballreference.com, and post the results you find. |
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