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And the hits to the Po-Po just keep comin'

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KobeBryantCliffordBrown
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Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2015 5:58 am Post subject: And the hits to the Po-Po just keep comin'

http://newsone.com/3100695/ft-lauderdale-cops-fired-after-racist-video-texts/?omcamp=EMC-CVNL&utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_term=Black%20Planet&utm_campaign=BP3.23.15 Love the image of POTUS with gold teeth. REALLY nice touch. _________________ “It took many years of vomiting up all the filth I’d been taught about myself, and half-believed, before I was able to walk on the earth as though I had a right to be here.” ― James Baldwin, Collected Essays

doughboy90650
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Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2015 6:09 am Post subject:

Not the first. Probably won't be the last. Funny how his ex chick outted him.

dood23
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Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2015 6:14 am Post subject:

I feel like it wouldn't hurt to stop making every other thread in General be about police.

KobeBryantCliffordBrown
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Joined: 28 Apr 2008
Posts: 6429

Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2015 6:42 am Post subject:

dood23 wrote:

I feel like it wouldn't hurt to stop making every other thread in General be about police.

Well, start a thread then. I went back to check and you haven't started one here since at least Nov 25. I didn't go further back. How long has it been since you've started a thread. Also, you have no mandate to open every thread.
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“It took many years of vomiting up all the filth I’d been taught about myself, and half-believed, before I was able to walk on the earth as though I had a right to be here.”
― James Baldwin, Collected Essays

the association
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Joined: 03 Feb 2015
Posts: 1982

Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2015 7:18 am Post subject:

I feel like it wouldn't hurt if you guys just stopped highlighting altogether the scant media coverage of the rampant deprivation of rights under color of law that has become the status quo in many law enforcement handbooks ... Don't mind this sand pouring off my dome ... I'm putting it back as soon as I'm done hitting Submit ...

KobeBryantCliffordBrown
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Joined: 28 Apr 2008
Posts: 6429

Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2015 7:21 am Post subject:

the association wrote:

I feel like it wouldn't hurt if you guys just stopped highlighting altogether the scant media coverage of the rampant deprivation of rights under color of law that has become the status quo in many law enforcement handbooks ...

Don't mind this sand pouring off my dome ... I'm putting it back as soon as I'm done hitting Submit ...

I see what you did there. 1+
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“It took many years of vomiting up all the filth I’d been taught about myself, and half-believed, before I was able to walk on the earth as though I had a right to be here.”
― James Baldwin, Collected Essays

Aussiesuede
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Joined: 27 Jul 2005
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Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2015 10:19 am Post subject:

dood23 wrote:

I feel like it wouldn't hurt to stop making every other thread in General be about police.

It's not just the police. It's society in general. The police don't absolve themselves of these killings - prosecutors & commisions do. The police don't sentence black juveniles to significantly longer sentences as adults whilst letting white juveniles skate in the juvenile system for the same crimes - juries made up of the public do. It's not a "Police" issue. It's a "Society" issue. And these things keep happening. One can attribute any reason they care to as to why, but it's undeniable that it keeps happening and there is too much consistency to have it be left up to simple chance. There is a reason, and we need to start trying to figure out what that reason is. I don't think the majority of cops are out and out racists. But something is coloring their actions to have them react so much more fearfully against a specific segment of the population. Whatever that reason is is what needs to be addressed.

And when 62% of White Americans believe racism has been pretty much eradicated - well, then I think you have to address the subconcious issues they simply aren't either aware of, or are unwilling to admit to. Holding a screwdriver should not EVER be a capitol offense. Neither should lunging with said screwdriver. Had the suspect been subdued and arrested, he'd have been sentenced for battery on a Police Officer, which is also NOT a capitol offense. Accepting capitol punishment for the suspected offense we see some of on camera is simply unacceptable in a civilised society. The fact that police will consistently defend that they SHOULD be able to kill in such circumstances goes straight to the gravity of the real problem - a total lack of recognition of acceptable escalation of force, and just exactly WHAT rises to acceptable killing. This case doesn't come CLOSE to rising to that standard, no matter what some misguided trainer has told them. And Police, nor Prosecutors, get to decide what is ACCEPTABLE. WE, the public they are both sworn to serve and protect get to decide just what is and what s not acceptable. Police use to refuse to arrest lynchers, and prosecutors use to refuse to prosecute them because society said their actions were ok. Times change,and now society is starting to say - it's no longer acceptable for the police to kill in this manner, nor for prosecutors to fail to hold them accountable for said killings. Again, times change.
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jodeke
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Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2015 12:34 pm Post subject:

It must be the water. If I go to Florida I ain't drinking it. _________________ Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.

jonnybravo
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Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2015 12:49 pm Post subject:

doughboy90650 wrote:

Not the first. Probably won't be the last. Funny how his ex chick outted him.

Lol...hell hath no...

JerryMagicKobe
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Joined: 28 Jul 2005
Posts: 15100

Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2015 1:23 pm Post subject:

Aussiesuede wrote:

You just did. Fear. And if we are ever brave enough to talk about something as real and raw as fear then we might have a chance to make progress. Until then each side will retreat to their false bravado and justify their actions as an unavoidable reaction to what someone else did first.

Aussiesuede wrote:

And when 62% of White Americans believe racism has been pretty much eradicated - well, then I think you have to address the subconcious issues they simply aren't either aware of, or are unwilling to admit to.

The views that my father's generation had on race is completely foreign to my son's generation. My generation is somewhere in the middle. In Jr. High I was the one white guy on the basketball team. If you judge the race relations based on the number of slurs used (one way, mind you), I'd say race relations were pretty pathetic. If you judged it by the lasting relationships that developed from that, well I think I have some pretty good friends. Racism has not been eradicated, but gauging the future by my son and his friends, it is on the right path. They couldn't care less, and laugh at themeselves and each other.

Aussiesuede wrote:

Holding a screwdriver should not EVER be a capitol offense. Neither should lunging with said screwdriver. Had the suspect been subdued and arrested, he'd have been sentenced for battery on a Police Officer, which is also NOT a capitol offense. Accepting capitol punishment for the suspected offense we see some of on camera is simply unacceptable in a civilised society. The fact that police will consistently defend that they SHOULD be able to kill in such circumstances goes straight to the gravity of the real problem - a total lack of recognition of acceptable escalation of force, and just exactly WHAT rises to acceptable killing. This case doesn't come CLOSE to rising to that standard, no matter what some misguided trainer has told them. And Police, nor Prosecutors, get to decide what is ACCEPTABLE. WE, the public they are both sworn to serve and protect get to decide just what is and what s not acceptable. Police use to refuse to arrest lynchers, and prosecutors use to refuse to prosecute them because society said their actions were ok. Times change,and now society is starting to say - it's no longer acceptable for the police to kill in this manner, nor for prosecutors to fail to hold them accountable for said killings. Again, times change.

Fan0Bynum17 wrote:

(bleep) the police, they're all a bunch of thug trigger happy cowards that probably freak out and draw their gun if a mouse runs by their feet. I hope they all accidentally shoot themselves from their own paranoia.

The description is not of a bad-ass Terminator cop blowing people away for grins and giggles. It is an emotional description of a cop letting fear cause him to over react to a mild situation by escalating it to a more dangerous one. People react irrationally to fear, and expecting them to do otherwise is to ignore human nature. The only way to improve the reaction of police is to reduce the amount of fear from their interactions. That is what we should be focusing on and talking about.

If the problem is how law enforcement appropriately deals with crime, then we have to recognize that crime is an ecconomic issue, not a racial one. The first step towards a solution is to disincentvize criminal activity. Decriminalize vice to remove the allure of the quick buck while emphasizing and expanding the opportunities available through education. If one's only avenue to prosperity goes through the classroom instead of the street corner, the students will go, particularly if they have others to follow. Setting career goals will start kids down the right path. Investing time and resources will keep them motivated. Achieving successes along the way will fuel the desire for more, and enjoying the fruits of their labor is a tremendous reward to pursue.

If we spend the majority of our time focusing on how society's last line of defense deals with the criminals of this generation, we are completely missing the opportunity to nurture, educate and protect the most promising element of society. Our next generation.

Aussiesuede
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Joined: 27 Jul 2005
Posts: 10964

Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2015 2:08 pm Post subject:

Yikes, I just realised this is in the wrong thread. Wanna shove it over to the proper thread???

JerryMagicKobe wrote:

There is a basic level of fear that comes with dealing with the unknown. Then there is an exceptional level of fear that is irrational.

If the mother called her next door neighbor (we'll call him Bruno) and asked him to come over and help get her crazy son in the car so she could take him to the mental ward, and when Bruno arrives and the door opens, there is the crazy son standing there with a screwdriver dangling in his hand, does Bruno get to immediately draw a gun and escalate the situation? Would Bruno be subject to a brandishing charge for that reaction to his "Fear"? If 2 other neighbors came over to accompany Bruno and were standing there watching the crazy kid with a screwdriver dangling from his hand, do they get to draw their guns as well? Or is there an expected proportionality to their reactions, even though they are untrained and experiencing fear? What would be the likely outcome for those 3 neighbors if the crazy kid gets shot? Would they likely have to answer to a jury as to whether it was a justifiable homicide or not?

I agree that fear is a powerful agitant. But fear does not relieve one of acting reasonably - and most certainly doesn't excuse the taking of a life. Again, especially for trained officers, proportionality should rule the day. I had a robber lunge at me once attempting to snatch my laptop bag. I was scared sh*&^%less. Had no time to compose myself. My instinctive reaction was to grab his arm and swing him out into traffic. The punk got up and ran away. In it's aftermath, I was struck with the fact that my life could have been ruined. I could have been facing an involuntary manslaughter charge had the punk been tossed in front of an ill timed bus. I had to face the fact that no matter how scared , or pissed, I was - a laptop simply isn't worth a life.

JerryMagicKobe wrote:

You and I are pretty much in agreement here. Things are undoubtedly getting better, a LOT better.

JerryMagicKobe wrote:

Once again, fear makes everyone over react. Mom called the cops because she was afraid. Son armed himself because he was afraid (with issues of mental health as a contributing factor). Cops reacted with lethal force because they were afraid. Yet fear is the last thing anyone wants to admit, let alone discuss in great depth. Being fearful is the ultimate insult, and showing fear is unforgivable.

The description is not of a bad-ass Terminator cop blowing people away for grins and giggles. It is an emotional description of a cop letting fear cause him to over react to a mild situation by escalating it to a more dangerous one. People react irrationally to fear, and expecting them to do otherwise is to ignore human nature. The only way to improve the reaction of police is to reduce the amount of fear from their interactions. That is what we should be focusing on and talking about.

Agreed for the most part. The only fly in the oinment is that when dealing with the exact same situation, Police officers seem to be more fearful in situation with black men than when dealing with white men, and this escalated level of fear seems to cause them to REACT more aggressively than they would otherwise. THAT is the cruxt of the issue that needs to be dealt with. To try to get Police to react in a similar manner to similar threats REGARDLESS of the race of the suspect. We need to address the reasons that a white guy arriving at the door with a screwdriver in his hand is much less likely to get killed by an officer than a black guy arriving at the door with a screwdriver in his hand. Simple fear doesn't explain this disparity. A greater willingness to take a black life vs a white life, certainly would - although there are certainly other possible explanations. We need to address just what it is that cause this disproportionality in responses. There is something underlying, because we just don't see this same level of disproportionate response from police in other western nations when police are dealing with blacks vs whites. Other western cops aren't killing a specific segment of their populations at the rate US Police are, and have - and that includes Police who are policing heavily Black areas in western nations like France (Marseilles) and Canada (Toronto). What's up with our cops in this regards? We need to figure that out if we hope to have a chance of fixing it

JerryMagicKobe wrote:

If the problem is how law enforcement appropriately deals with crime, then we have to recognize that crime is an ecconomic issue, not a racial one. The first step towards a solution is to disincentvize criminal activity. Decriminalize vice to remove the allure of the quick buck while emphasizing and expanding the opportunities available through education. If one's only avenue to prosperity goes through the classroom instead of the street corner, the students will go, particularly if they have others to follow. Setting career goals will start kids down the right path. Investing time and resources will keep them motivated. Achieving successes along the way will fuel the desire for more, and enjoying the fruits of their labor is a tremendous reward to pursue.

If we spend the majority of our time focusing on how society's last line of defense deals with the criminals of this generation, we are completely missing the opportunity to nurture, educate and protect the most promising element of society. Our next generation.

In this intance, it wasn't a response to crime. It was a response to a mother asking for help getting her crazy son to the looney bin. The posture of the Police upon their arrival indicated they weren't responding to suspected criminal activity - yet the second they saw that dang screwdriver - things escalated at the speed of light. We need to answer - Why?
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DaMuleRules
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Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2015 6:18 pm Post subject:

Aussiesuede wrote:

dood23 wrote:

I feel like it wouldn't hurt to stop making every other thread in General be about police.

It's not just the police. It's society in general. The police don't absolve themselves of these killings - prosecutors & commisions do.

You can't be serious. First stop in any officer involved shooting is Internal Affairs. Prosecutors and Police Commissions don't enter it until after the cops police themselves.

Aussiesuede
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Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2015 6:36 pm Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:

Aussiesuede wrote:

dood23 wrote:

I feel like it wouldn't hurt to stop making every other thread in General be about police.

It's not just the police. It's society in general. The police don't absolve themselves of these killings - prosecutors & commisions do.

You can't be serious. First stop in any officer involved shooting is Internal Affairs. Prosecutors and Police Commissions don't enter it until after the cops police themselves.

Actually every dept is different. If you're in Los Angeles, they indeed do utilise Internal Affairs as the start point and potentially the stop point. Thankfully many jursisdictions are more evolved than the LAPD.

For example, here is the process for Las Vegas PD:

Each use of deadly force incident goes through a Coroner’s Inquest process. Then Those findings are forwarded to the following:

District Attorney
Force Investigation Team
Office of Internal Oversight (Composed of Officers & Civilians)

Each conducts it's own independent investigations, then the findings of each are posted on a public website for public review. You can view that website below:

Las Vegas PD Use of Force Review

Thankfully, more and more Depts are following this example, and hopefully at some point it becomes the mandated norm. California has a bill in the works to create a similar 3rd Party Civilian Oversight Review Board.

All long overdue. But you are correct that in Los Angeles, and far too many other jurisdictions, Police are allowed to engage in policing themselves, which is absurd for any entity.
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I'm On point, On task, On message, and Off drugs. A Streetwise Smart Bomb, Out of rehab and In denial. Over the Top, On the edge, Under the Radar, and In Control. Behind the 8 ball, Ahead of the Curve and I've got a Love Child who sends me Hate mail.

Omar Little
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Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2015 7:02 pm Post subject:

jodeke wrote:

It must be the water. If I go to Florida I ain't drinking it.

Do you know what the penalty for a black man failing to drink the water in Florida is?
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DaMuleRules
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Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2015 7:13 pm Post subject:

24 wrote:

jodeke wrote:

It must be the water. If I go to Florida I ain't drinking it.

Do you know what the penalty for a black man failing to drink the water in Florida is?

Dehydration.

DaMuleRules
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Joined: 10 Dec 2006
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Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2015 7:44 pm Post subject:

Aussiesuede wrote:

Thankfully, more and more Depts are following this example, and hopefully at some point it becomes the mandated norm. California has a bill in the works to create a similar 3rd Party Civilian Oversight Review Board.

All long overdue. But you are correct that in Los Angeles, and far too many other jurisdictions, Police are allowed to engage in policing themselves, which is absurd for any entity.

And unfortunately, the departments that do operate that way tend to be largest of the metropolises. Amongst the cities I am familiar with LA is right in step with New York, Chicago and San Francisco when it comes to that blue line nonsense.

Omar Little
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Location: Formerly Known As 24

Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2015 8:00 pm Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:

Aussiesuede wrote:

Put seattle right in the midst of that too.
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