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Four Decade Bandwagon
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 Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 1:50 pm Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | | Four Decade Bandwagon wrote: | | jonnybravo wrote: | | Four Decade Bandwagon wrote: | Curious if any of you proposing the continual merry go round of HCs have any concerns for the upheaval it causes to the continuity and chemistry of the Lakers.
Every HC wants to organize his own team with his own players. Every HC wants to draft and add free agents that fit his system. The players brought in from the last regime are essentially a wasted pick for the new direction.
I would use Kelly as a prime example. Was a perfect fit stretch 4 in a MDA offense. I would say a marginal player with Scott. Would be a joke in a Thibadou run team.
Any concerns that if Scott is not the answer as you suggest. Then every player selection comes into question. The direction of the team directs the player additions.
I would speculate that there would be a good chance Scott, Calipari, Thibadou or whatever fan favorite HC of 2016 would have very different selections with the projected #4, #26 and #34 picks this year. And different free agents to be added to fit the systems they run.
Are the Lakers in a position to waste any picks , free agents or coach selections right now? I would like to believe that the Laker front office is smarter then building a roster for one HC with the plan for another to dismantle it in a couple of years.
IMO Scott has a few years to make this work. |
I disagree. If we're going to do it now is the perfect time. The roster upheavel is going to be wholesale. Continuity is irrelevant. If anything, I'd be more concerned about the continuity of 2015 going forward.
Well done Baby B. You held the fort for a real NBA coach. |
Working under your premise that Scott is not a good HC then I would agree with you if a better choice is available. Now is the time to make the move, not in two years.
For example if Calipari wanted to join Towns and Randle with the Lakers. I see the logic.
But IMO Scott is not a bad HC. And unless the Lakers add players but continue to show no improvement then I agree he did not do enough to keep the job.
My speculation is the roster will get better and the improvement will lead to increased competitiveness. Depending on the additions, I think an improvement to 35-40 wins next year is not out of the question. Then a borderline playoff team the next is enough to keep Scott in control. |
Those are prudent expectations.
If Kobe, randle, Clarkson, and the top 5 pick all stay relatively healthy and the other role players are equivalent talent to what they are now. |
I am not sure how much we can expect from kobe in all honesty. I am factoring in only a minimal impact. If the Lakers could add a legitimate center and a SF it would be worth 10 games.
I have posted this before but my roster for next year would look like this. It gives Scott a better balanced to team to work with. If they had good health and player chemistry I could see potentially getting into the 45 -50 wins needed to get into the playoffs. Optimistic with all the youth I know. I'm a dreamer! Realistically probably closer to the 40 win range.
C- Towns or WCS/ Upshaw, or D. Johnson /Sacre
PF- Randle/ Davis or Black / Kelly
SF- Middleton or W. Chandler type free agent / Wes Johnson / Hollis-Jefferson or Anderson
SG- Kobe /Ellington / Young
PG- Clarkson / Lin / Price or Brown type free agent. (or buy another late 1st or early 2nd for a PG prospect Jones, Lucas, Rozier ?) |
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44TheLogo
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| Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 2:57 pm Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | | 44TheLogo wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | 44TheLogo wrote: | http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/03/25/report-john-calipari-desperately-wants-to-coach-in-the-nba-again/
alright. Now I want Scott gone. |
The Lakers would be a perfect fit for him. He returned Kentucky to its NCAA glory, imagine if he did the same with the Lakers. Supposedly there was some discussion last offseason. And he is a big enough name to make the long time Laker fans forget we dumped Byron after one season. Hell, I would even draft an Harrison if it meant he would come here. |
I entirely agree that Cal is a perfect fit for the Lakers. To me, there are two perfect coaches for the Lakers that fit the fraynchise. Cal or Coach K, and K is not leaving Duke for anything. |
Why do you think he'd be a perfect fit?
I'm not saying you're wrong. I just want to know your reasoning. |
There are a couple of non-basketball related things that I would highlight as far as Calipari being a perfect fit.
There are a few things that I think NBA coaches have to succeed at to be successful, and I've laid them out here.
1. Team ethos: We are a showtime, slick, entertainment focused team - it's showbusiness. Phil was beloved here because he won championships, but his persona didn't quite fit the established culture of the Lakers organization. Both the fans and Jerry Buss overlooked that because we won. John Calipari is the definition of a slick, entertaining coach - and he knows how to work the media. He is accustomed to being in the limelight and having the crosshairs pointed at him, as the LA media and fanbase will for the Lakers HC. Take for example a Tom Izzo - excellent coach in his own right, but the blue collar, grit and grind ethos doesn't resonate with the Lakers quite as much as an up and down, finesse/skill based approach does.
2. Cult of personality: Our HC needs to have a strong personality to overcome the cult of personality/dominant presence that Kobe exudes in the Lakers organization. Byron can get away with not having that because he has such a longstanding relationship with Kobe and the rest of the Lakers greats that he's not going to be put on the hot seat as quickly as MDA was. Calipari has that bigger than life personality that can deal with the "politics" of being the coach of the Lakers.
Then, as far as basketball goes, another two things.
3. Ego Management: I don't think there is a coach in the game better at ego management than Cal. Getting 1 and dones every year and managing to construct a team out of the strong egos that highly touted high school basketball players have is a testament to how he is able to get his players to buy in to the team concept. This is critical to being a successful head coach, and Calipari is clearly a master motivator and ego manager.
4. Game Planning: Going to have to admit that I have not studied UK closely enough to have a good say in this regard, the only college team I follow closely is Duke. I'll rely on Cal's history of success as evidence that his game planning is sufficient.
5. In Game Adjustments: Same as 4
6. Rotation Management: Same as 4 |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 3:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Four Decade Bandwagon wrote: |
My apologies for being a pest about this but it interests me because it does not fit my way of thinking and I am trying to understand the logic of declaring Scott a failed hire already.
What would be your realistic expectations of Scott and the Lakers for the next two years, if that is the line in the sand as you speculate.
What would you consider a successful run by Scott? What level of success would be sufficient to keep him as HC? |
First of all install an offense that current NBA players know how to perform in. The long two offense went out with the short shorts. Second, communicate with your players face to face, not in the media. Third and most important, have some flexibility and don't think your plans are so good that you fail to adjust when needed.
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SuperboyReformed
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| Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 4:48 pm Post subject: |
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| I really don't think it matters. If it's true that we are tanking (it is), then what difference does the coach make? Like, which coach is going to lose better? |
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Tony Anapolis
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| Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 6:08 pm Post subject: |
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I say keep Byron for the rebuild, see what he can with some players, his track record is not bad when he has decent talent to work with.
Unless Thibodeau or someone like that becomes available, I don't see the reason behind a coaching carousel at this point? |
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SuperboyReformed
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| Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 7:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Tony Anapolis wrote: | I say keep Byron for the rebuild, see what he can with some players, his track record is not bad when he has decent talent to work with.
Unless Thibodeau or someone like that becomes available, I don't see the reason behind a coaching carousel at this point? |
makes sense to me. |
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LakerEric
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| Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2015 3:21 am Post subject: |
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| Megaton wrote: | If the Lakers lose the top 5 pick, then yes I want him gone.
Mark Madsen can take over. Give him a shot. |
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andree
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| Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2015 4:13 am Post subject: |
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Maybe to release the 3rd coach in such short time is not a good sign.
But I am intriguid by Mike Malone or Mike Budenholzer. if one of them want to come I would think twice |
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44TheLogo
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| Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2015 9:44 am Post subject: |
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http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/72749/the-nbas-top-head-coaching-prospects
Strange that Calipari's not there?
a key quote that I think reflects a lot of Lakers fans' frustrations regarding B.Scott: "A couple of general managers noted that the success stories from the classes of 2013 and 2014 are largely first-time NBA head coaches. More notably, the retreads are having a tough go of it. The game is evolving quickly, and those who see a head-coaching gig in the NBA as continuing education are reaping the benefits, and those who feel as though they have all the answers are finding themselves at a loss when they learn the questions have changed." |
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kikanga
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| Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2015 10:02 am Post subject: |
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| 44TheLogo wrote: | http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/72749/the-nbas-top-head-coaching-prospects
Strange that Calipari's not there?
a key quote that I think reflects a lot of Lakers fans' frustrations regarding B.Scott: "A couple of general managers noted that the success stories from the classes of 2013 and 2014 are largely first-time NBA head coaches. More notably, the retreads are having a tough go of it. The game is evolving quickly, and those who see a head-coaching gig in the NBA as continuing education are reaping the benefits, and those who feel as though they have all the answers are finding themselves at a loss when they learn the questions have changed." |
At least ESPN is consistent.
Whether it's are regular season record projections, FO rankings, player rankings, or coaching evaluation they think we suck.
A good question is, what facet of an NBA organization do they think were good. I'm doubting there is none.
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44TheLogo
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| Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2015 11:10 am Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | | 44TheLogo wrote: | http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/72749/the-nbas-top-head-coaching-prospects
Strange that Calipari's not there?
a key quote that I think reflects a lot of Lakers fans' frustrations regarding B.Scott: "A couple of general managers noted that the success stories from the classes of 2013 and 2014 are largely first-time NBA head coaches. More notably, the retreads are having a tough go of it. The game is evolving quickly, and those who see a head-coaching gig in the NBA as continuing education are reaping the benefits, and those who feel as though they have all the answers are finding themselves at a loss when they learn the questions have changed." |
At least ESPN is consistent.
Whether it's are regular season record projections, FO rankings, player rankings, or coaching evaluation they think we suck.
A good question is, what facet of an NBA organization do they think were good. I'm doubting there is none. |
I realize now that my introduction of that quote set the context up incorrectly - it was not directed towards the Lakers by ESPN. I simply felt that it reflected some of the frustrations that many of us fans have about our head coach. |
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Chronicle
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| Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2015 11:13 am Post subject: |
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Calipari let's go!
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2015 11:15 am Post subject: |
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| Chronicle wrote: | | Calipari let's go! |
I think he's due for another NBA stint. However, I think he'd want to have more personnel control, and that's a deal breaker for the Lakers.
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bandiger
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| Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2015 11:21 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Chronicle wrote: | | Calipari let's go! |
I think he's due for another NBA stint. However, I think he'd want to have more personnel control, and that's a deal breaker for the Lakers. |
He had that last time and failed. I have an issue with coaches getting too much control ala Rivers, SVG, etc. |
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greenfrog
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| Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2015 11:30 am Post subject: |
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| Unless recruiting kids to play for free becomes relevant in the NBA, I don't understand the obsession with highly successful college coaches. |
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Chronicle
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| Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2015 11:32 am Post subject: |
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Calipari is well liked by many players in the NBA and a bunch of good players come from Kentucky so they'll likely also give preference to playing for the Lakers.
It would go a long way when going after free agents to have him as our coach
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2015 11:35 am Post subject: |
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| greenfrog wrote: | | Unless recruiting kids to play for free becomes relevant in the NBA, I don't understand the obsession with highly successful college coaches. |
Coach Cal: "Wait, I can't get 7 of the top players to join my team every offseason? F this..."
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greenfrog
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| Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2015 11:39 am Post subject: |
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| Chronicle wrote: | Calipari is well liked by many players in the NBA and a bunch of good players come from Kentucky so they'll likely also give preference to playing for the Lakers.
It would go a long way when going after free agents to have him as our coach |
We got Shaq with Del Harris as our coach. The Heat got Lebron and Bosh with a nobody in Spo at the helm, and then you have Lebron again who didn't even care who the coach was in Cleveland when he signed. There's no evidence I can find that coaching makes a difference in free agency. |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2015 11:40 am Post subject: |
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| greenfrog wrote: | | Unless recruiting kids to play for free becomes relevant in the NBA, I don't understand the obsession with highly successful college coaches. |
The fact that they are highly successful coaches?
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greenfrog
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| Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2015 11:48 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | Unless recruiting kids to play for free becomes relevant in the NBA, I don't understand the obsession with highly successful college coaches. |
The fact that they are highly successful coaches? |
And you think that's because of their superior "coaching" skills? There are some examples sure (Larry Brown...I thought Majerus would have been an incredible pro coach), but a lot of these guys are just car salesmen. |
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rtsmith
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kwase
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| Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2015 12:08 pm Post subject: |
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| I just read somewhere that Calipari is keeping his eyes on Cleveland. So, again, great coaches have no desire to come here until we have a team that can contend. I think we're all putting the cart before the horse. |
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kikanga
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| Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2015 12:14 pm Post subject: |
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Only thing I was Scott to do with 12 games left is secure our pick.
Everything else is secondary.
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kikanga
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| Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2015 12:18 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | Unless recruiting kids to play for free becomes relevant in the NBA, I don't understand the obsession with highly successful college coaches. |
Coach Cal: "Wait, I can't get 7 of the top players to join my team every offseason? F this..." |
Patiently waiting for Calipari to get busted for illegal player recruitment ($) like in his previous college coaching stops.
That "superpower" he has for recruiting talent may not be as effective in the pros.
In terms of x's and o's I think he's good (but not great) when compared relatively to the rest of the coaches in the NBA.
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24KT
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| Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2015 12:19 pm Post subject: |
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| YES (especially if Calipari/Thib is available). They know he's no serious longtime answer once things start really falling into place. He's served his temporary purpose. |
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