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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:27 am Post subject: |
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Rugbar wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | Rugbar wrote: | Getting Davis for $5.5 million would still be a steal imo... |
Would still require not pursuing a max-free agent, maybe a 16.3m rookie max but those guys are all restricted. DJ/Love will be in the 18m range and 5.5.m won't be available unless Young is somehow offloaded. |
Agreed. That's why Davis is probably going elsewhere. |
Which is why after he dumped Pelinka I was hoping he'd be traded by the deadline. He's likely not coming back and he's going to hurt the Tank. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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Rugbar Starting Rotation
Joined: 14 Nov 2014 Posts: 203
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Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:31 am Post subject: |
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Just venting...but...what a huge albatross Kobe's contract is around the team's neck. There, I said it. |
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Four Decade Bandwagon Star Player
Joined: 18 Jul 2014 Posts: 8127
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Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:32 am Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | Rugbar wrote: | Getting Davis for $5.5 million would still be a steal imo... |
Would still require not pursuing a max-free agent, maybe a 16.3m rookie max but those guys are all restricted. DJ/Love will be in the 18m range and 5.5.m won't be available unless Young is somehow offloaded. |
I think this is a great example of the different directions the Lakers can take. It will be interesting to see which they do.
I am embracing the rebuild. Just my opinion but for this year I would rather the Lakers spend the free agent dollars on building the roster and team chemistry. Younger quality role players. Then attempting to lure a free agent or two in 2016 after Kobe retires and the rookies have some seasoning.
For this upcoming year, I would rather the Lakers sign Lin and Davis for a few years then signing max contracts to Jordan, Love or Rondo types. My opinion could change if Mitch is able to work some voodoo and lure an unexpected top free agent. But as I look at the situation today I would prefer a conservative and patient approach to rebuilding. |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:34 am Post subject: |
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Rugbar wrote: | Just venting...but...what a huge albatross Kobe's contract is around the team's neck. There, I said it. |
Goes without saying but it is what it is. Hopefully Kobe/Lakers make a great and clean break after next season. Time for both to move on to greater things. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:35 am Post subject: |
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Four Decade Bandwagon wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | Rugbar wrote: | Getting Davis for $5.5 million would still be a steal imo... |
Would still require not pursuing a max-free agent, maybe a 16.3m rookie max but those guys are all restricted. DJ/Love will be in the 18m range and 5.5.m won't be available unless Young is somehow offloaded. |
I think this is a great example of the different directions the Lakers can take. It will be interesting to see which they do.
I am embracing the rebuild. Just my opinion but for this year I would rather the Lakers spend the free agent dollars on building the roster and team chemistry. Younger quality role players. Then attempting to lure a free agent or two in 2016 after Kobe retires and the rookies have some seasoning.
For this upcoming year, I would rather the Lakers sign Lin and Davis for a few years then signing max contracts to Jordan, Love or Rondo types. My opinion could change if Mitch is able to work some voodoo and lure an unexpected top free agent. But as I look at the situation today I would prefer a conservative and patient approach to rebuilding. |
Lin/Ed at a more expensive combined cap hit isn't really going to take the Lakers anywhere, whereas the hope is with guys like DJ/Love/LMA/Gasol/Dragic we get an infusion of top tier talent. However, we are so depleted in terms of bench players that they would serve a purpose. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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ice_cold Starting Rotation
Joined: 22 Jul 2014 Posts: 483
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Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:40 am Post subject: |
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The issue for me is not sitting Davis now, which clearly makes sense given the tank. But the incompetence in not playing Davis more - earlier in season.
When it was pretty clear that Boozer and Hill were probably not worth keeping from early on. |
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Rugbar Starting Rotation
Joined: 14 Nov 2014 Posts: 203
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Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:44 am Post subject: |
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So Yinomna (or anyone else), maybe you can explain something to me, because I don't really understand the legal ins and outs. I think I've read that Nash could have taken a medical retirement before the season started and still received his salary for the year, but the Lakers could have washed away his hit against the cap. Is that right? And would the same apply to Kobe this summer? |
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Four Decade Bandwagon Star Player
Joined: 18 Jul 2014 Posts: 8127
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Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:56 am Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | Four Decade Bandwagon wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | Rugbar wrote: | Getting Davis for $5.5 million would still be a steal imo... |
Would still require not pursuing a max-free agent, maybe a 16.3m rookie max but those guys are all restricted. DJ/Love will be in the 18m range and 5.5.m won't be available unless Young is somehow offloaded. |
I think this is a great example of the different directions the Lakers can take. It will be interesting to see which they do.
I am embracing the rebuild. Just my opinion but for this year I would rather the Lakers spend the free agent dollars on building the roster and team chemistry. Younger quality role players. Then attempting to lure a free agent or two in 2016 after Kobe retires and the rookies have some seasoning.
For this upcoming year, I would rather the Lakers sign Lin and Davis for a few years then signing max contracts to Jordan, Love or Rondo types. My opinion could change if Mitch is able to work some voodoo and lure an unexpected top free agent. But as I look at the situation today I would prefer a conservative and patient approach to rebuilding. |
Lin/Ed at a more expensive combined cap hit isn't really going to take the Lakers anywhere, whereas the hope is with guys like DJ/Love/LMA/Gasol/Dragic we get an infusion of top tier talent. However, we are so depleted in terms of bench players that they would serve a purpose. |
There in lies the big question. Which will work? It is easy for us to throw out ideas sitting behind our computers procrastinating getting our work done. But guys like Kupchak and co have to make the decisions that cost millions.
I would argue the depleted bench is a direct result of the "all in" for a marquee player approach. A couple of years of development and rebuilding is needed to restore the team IMO. Of all the free agents you mentioned. Do you think any are realistically coming to the Lakers this year? Why would they?
Lakers constant reshuffling of the roster and coaching staff has left them without stability or credibility in the league. A great draft and re-signing some players still playing with energy and heart would go a long way towards building that foundation.
IMO more productive then going for a likely flawed marquee f/a and a deeply flawed bench. I guess that is the discussion. In 2016 which would a top tier free agent prefer.
Your statement concerning Kobe is spot on. "it is what it is" Nothing will change that reality. I only hope his last year ends well. Not injured and struggling. Maybe he can embrace the mentor role and assume a Ginolili- like role on the court. 20 mpg off the bench as a catalyst and playmaker at the end of games. Doubt he can. But a fan can hope can't he? |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:58 am Post subject: |
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ice_cold wrote: | The issue for me is not sitting Davis now, which clearly makes sense given the tank. But the incompetence in not playing Davis more - earlier in season.
When it was pretty clear that Boozer and Hill were probably not worth keeping from early on. |
If we wanted to win more games (not enough to make the playoffs but enough to jeopardize top 5 pick) should have run Lin/Davis off the bat. That was something everyone saw...except Byron. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 10:00 am Post subject: |
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Rugbar wrote: | So Yinomna (or anyone else), maybe you can explain something to me, because I don't really understand the legal ins and outs. I think I've read that Nash could have taken a medical retirement before the season started and still received his salary for the year, but the Lakers could have washed away his hit against the cap. Is that right? And would the same apply to Kobe this summer? |
IIRC, re: Nash, that decision had to be made last year and then the Lakers would get the cap hit off 1 year from the date. But Nash couldn't play more than 10 games, which he did.
Kobe isn't going out like that. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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Bard207 Star Player
Joined: 08 Jan 2013 Posts: 7713
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Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 10:12 am Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | Rugbar wrote: | So Yinomna (or anyone else), maybe you can explain something to me, because I don't really understand the legal ins and outs. I think I've read that Nash could have taken a medical retirement before the season started and still received his salary for the year, but the Lakers could have washed away his hit against the cap. Is that right? And would the same apply to Kobe this summer? |
IIRC, re: Nash, that decision had to be made last year and then the Lakers would get the cap hit off 1 year from the date. But Nash couldn't play more than 10 games, which he did.
Kobe isn't going out like that. |
Yes.
I have the relevant links in regards to the query about Nash at hand if needed. |
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Rugbar Starting Rotation
Joined: 14 Nov 2014 Posts: 203
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Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 10:17 am Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | Rugbar wrote: | So Yinomna (or anyone else), maybe you can explain something to me, because I don't really understand the legal ins and outs. I think I've read that Nash could have taken a medical retirement before the season started and still received his salary for the year, but the Lakers could have washed away his hit against the cap. Is that right? And would the same apply to Kobe this summer? |
IIRC, re: Nash, that decision had to be made last year and then the Lakers would get the cap hit off 1 year from the date. But Nash couldn't play more than 10 games, which he did.
Kobe isn't going out like that. |
Well, he's passed MJ on the scoring list... I agree it's unlikely he would go out that way, but I'm not sure it's impossible, especially if he thought the Lakers weren't going anywhere... |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 10:21 am Post subject: |
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Rugbar wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | Rugbar wrote: | So Yinomna (or anyone else), maybe you can explain something to me, because I don't really understand the legal ins and outs. I think I've read that Nash could have taken a medical retirement before the season started and still received his salary for the year, but the Lakers could have washed away his hit against the cap. Is that right? And would the same apply to Kobe this summer? |
IIRC, re: Nash, that decision had to be made last year and then the Lakers would get the cap hit off 1 year from the date. But Nash couldn't play more than 10 games, which he did.
Kobe isn't going out like that. |
Well, he's passed MJ on the scoring list... I agree it's unlikely he would go out that way, but I'm not sure it's impossible, especially if he thought the Lakers weren't going anywhere... |
if next year's the final year of his great career, he will play hurt to his own detriment. Kobe's going to try to will his body for one last run. And the cap relief we'd get from a hypothetical Kobe medical retirement is moot since his contract likely gets off the book b/f the 1 year from his medical retirement date day. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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Bard207 Star Player
Joined: 08 Jan 2013 Posts: 7713
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Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 10:47 am Post subject: |
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Only a guess, but his agent might have informally inquired with the FO about what salary they were thinking about for next season and/or how many players would be ahead of Davis in getting a contract offer for next season.
Far too many variables at the moment for the FO to give the agent anything firm - concrete, so Davis is wanting to look out for himself by playing well for his next contract whether with the Lakers or another team.
The positions taken by both Davis and the FO are understandable, but should have been expected. |
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oldschool32 Franchise Player
Joined: 24 Jun 2005 Posts: 20032
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Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 11:08 am Post subject: |
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Four Decade Bandwagon wrote: | pio2u wrote: | Quote: | Ed Davis is essentially in a contract year, acknowledging Sunday he would decline a player option worth $1.1 million next season, a no-brainer for him.
He was averaging 8.4 points and 7.5 rebounds in 71 games and expected to earn closer to the league average of $5.5 million when he hit the free-agent market in July.
via Mike Bresnahan of the Los Angeles Times 3/29/15
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nothing new to report |
Interesting. That report is closer to the salary I was thinking for Davis. I have seen $7M speculated before too. I actually see Lin around that range too. Bringing both back for $15M or less was my working speculation. Still leaving approx. $8M or more for a second tier free agent to augment the roster.
Lakers have a lot of options this summer. Depending on how the draft and free agency plays out I can see a realistic scenario where they bring both back. And it being a positive.
Both are in their prime and contribute. I would have no issues with PG being Clarkson/ Lin and PF being Randle/Davis.
Some stability for the next 3-4 years would be welcome IMO. |
So you want to lock in the same team that got us this record for the next 3-4 years? Lin and Ed Davis aren't going to take the Lakers anywhere.....well maybe to the bank if they aren't smart.
Our team is basically Clarkson, Randle, Houston's pick, and hopefully a top 5 pick going forward. Those are the most important assets the Lakers have right now. After that, they have to keep angling for the top free agents to come and join their growing cast of young talented players. _________________ "It's just a job. Grass grows, birds fly, waves pound the sand. I beat people up."-The Greatest |
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22 Franchise Player
Joined: 05 Apr 2013 Posts: 17063
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Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 11:19 am Post subject: |
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Rugbar wrote: | Getting Davis for $5.5 million would still be a steal imo... | Yup. And if we draft Towns/Okafor/WCS I would offer him that no hesitation |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 11:20 am Post subject: |
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22 wrote: | Rugbar wrote: | Getting Davis for $5.5 million would still be a steal imo... | Yup. And if we draft Towns/Okafor/WCS I would offer him that no hesitation |
Well, not sure if we could afford that if we draft Towns/Okafor, maybe closer to 4m left in cap space. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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22 Franchise Player
Joined: 05 Apr 2013 Posts: 17063
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Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 11:44 am Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | 22 wrote: | Rugbar wrote: | Getting Davis for $5.5 million would still be a steal imo... | Yup. And if we draft Towns/Okafor/WCS I would offer him that no hesitation |
Well, not sure if we could afford that if we draft Towns/Okafor, maybe closer to 4m left in cap space. |
I'm saying that cuz I wouldn't go after a normal max player if we draft a C. I'd go after a rookie max and 2 role players + the room |
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Rivershow Star Player
Joined: 09 Dec 2011 Posts: 6731
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Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 11:48 am Post subject: |
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Rugbar wrote: | Just venting...but...what a huge albatross Kobe's contract is around the team's neck. There, I said it. |
It's been said many times before. You are like the 1000th person to say it in fact, but it is what it is. Hopefully smarter contract negotiations are the norm in the future even for lakers legends. |
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kikanga Retired Number
Joined: 15 Sep 2012 Posts: 29150 Location: La La Land
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Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 1:00 pm Post subject: |
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Rivershow wrote: | Rugbar wrote: | Just venting...but...what a huge albatross Kobe's contract is around the team's neck. There, I said it. |
It's been said many times before. You are like the 1000th person to say it in fact, but it is what it is. Hopefully smarter contract negotiations are the norm in the future even for lakers legends. |
What's his prize? _________________ "Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better” |
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Four Decade Bandwagon Star Player
Joined: 18 Jul 2014 Posts: 8127
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Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 1:07 pm Post subject: |
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oldschool32 wrote: | Four Decade Bandwagon wrote: | pio2u wrote: | Quote: | Ed Davis is essentially in a contract year, acknowledging Sunday he would decline a player option worth $1.1 million next season, a no-brainer for him.
He was averaging 8.4 points and 7.5 rebounds in 71 games and expected to earn closer to the league average of $5.5 million when he hit the free-agent market in July.
via Mike Bresnahan of the Los Angeles Times 3/29/15
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nothing new to report |
Interesting. That report is closer to the salary I was thinking for Davis. I have seen $7M speculated before too. I actually see Lin around that range too. Bringing both back for $15M or less was my working speculation. Still leaving approx. $8M or more for a second tier free agent to augment the roster.
Lakers have a lot of options this summer. Depending on how the draft and free agency plays out I can see a realistic scenario where they bring both back. And it being a positive.
Both are in their prime and contribute. I would have no issues with PG being Clarkson/ Lin and PF being Randle/Davis.
Some stability for the next 3-4 years would be welcome IMO. |
So you want to lock in the same team that got us this record for the next 3-4 years? Lin and Ed Davis aren't going to take the Lakers anywhere.....well maybe to the bank if they aren't smart.
Our team is basically Clarkson, Randle, Houston's pick, and hopefully a top 5 pick going forward. Those are the most important assets the Lakers have right now. After that, they have to keep angling for the top free agents to come and join their growing cast of young talented players. |
Not sure how the Lakers are the same with keeping Lin and Davis as role players. The Lakers will be adding players to the core that is contributing and developing. Hopefully filling out a complete roster. Currently critical weaknesses are Center and SF. Those have to be filled.
Keep in mind. I am proposing a rebuild from youth this year. Next year is the max free agent year. After Kobe retires.
If the Lakers are lucky enough to keep the lottery pick. The Lakers will potentially have seven players expected to play meaningful mpg that have under two years experience. I prefer a balance of quality experienced players in the mix too. One way of doing that would be to re-sign Davis, Lin and Ellington.
IMO continuity and player chemistry is important in a rebuild.
Let Kobe have his retirement tour. Let the young guys grow together. Then add a max free agent. At the very least you have some tradable assets if you needed to make a trade to complete the 2016 or 2017 teams. |
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kikanga Retired Number
Joined: 15 Sep 2012 Posts: 29150 Location: La La Land
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Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 1:12 pm Post subject: |
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Davis is a good player, but he can kick rocks.
I'd rather keep Tarik for 1 mill and spend the 4-5 mill I saved elsewhere. _________________ "Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better” |
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Megaton Retired Number
Joined: 18 Feb 2015 Posts: 25624
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Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 1:23 pm Post subject: |
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kikanga wrote: | Davis is a good player, but he can kick rocks.
I'd rather keep Tarik for 1 mill and spend the 4-5 mill I saved elsewhere. |
Bingo.
Sorry Ed but this draft pick is bigger than you. |
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Rugbar Starting Rotation
Joined: 14 Nov 2014 Posts: 203
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Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 1:39 pm Post subject: |
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kikanga wrote: | Rivershow wrote: | Rugbar wrote: | Just venting...but...what a huge albatross Kobe's contract is around the team's neck. There, I said it. |
It's been said many times before. You are like the 1000th person to say it in fact, but it is what it is. Hopefully smarter contract negotiations are the norm in the future even for lakers legends. |
What's his prize? |
If I have any say in the matter, I'll take the Swaggy P bobble head over the Jim Buss toilet paper. |
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easybreeze Star Player
Joined: 06 Jun 2005 Posts: 2381
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Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 2:49 pm Post subject: |
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Even if Kobe took half of his salary, the way the FO is run and how tough the west is, the Lakers would end up in no man's land. 10 to 15 more wins.
No one wants to play with Kobe, anyway. That's what I keep hearing. |
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