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kobe209
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 Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 1:11 pm Post subject: |
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Lin is not going to return, and I am more than ok with that
I don't see Hill returning unless we completely wiff on FAs
Davis gets resigned
Black maybe gets resigned
I don't see anyone else getting resigned.. we should have a lot of new faces next year. As for love, I am perfectly ok with offering him a max this year. I am more than ok with offering any guy who can be a #2 (or maybe even a #3) guy on a championship team the max this summer.
If we draft a guy like Okafor or Towns, pair them up with randle, and get a Free agent like brook lopez, Jordan, or Hibbert, you have a versatile front court forming like we had for the 08-10 title runs. That's a great core heading into next year and beyond
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Four Decade Bandwagon
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| Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 2:21 pm Post subject: |
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I continue to preach the conservative approach of building team chemistry and continuity by re-signing several and adding players to a depleted roster. Especially at Center ans SF. This is a year of the rebuild and development of young players and the Kobe retirement tour.
Max player is after Kobe retires in 2016 IMO
For this speculation I will assume (hope!) the Lakers keep the top 5 pick. I want either a center in Towns, Okafor or WCS. Although Winslow is growing on me.
Roster in 2015:
C- top 5 center, Upshaw or Johnson w 2nd rd pick , Sacre
PF- Randle, re-sign Davis, Kelly, (Black?)
SF- free agent $6-8M, draft J. Anderson with late 1st rd , re-sign Johnson
SG- Kobe , Young, re-sign Ellington
PG- Clarkson, re-sign Lin, (Brown, Price or min f/a) or late 2nd pick ?
Last edited by Four Decade Bandwagon on Tue Mar 31, 2015 2:27 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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tonman
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| Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 2:25 pm Post subject: Re: Lakers current roster position and potential off-season moves |
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| Dennis_D wrote: | The main reason the Lakers are so bad is that they don't have enough talent. If I had drawn up a depth chart at the start of pre-season, I would have had:
PG - Nash / Lin / Price / Clarkson
SG - Bryant / Henry / Ellington
SF - Johnson / Young
PF - Boozer / Randle / Kelly
C - Hill / Davis / Sacre
Nash went down before the first game. Young and Kelly were injured in pre-season. Randle was injured in the first game and out for the season. After the first game, the depth chart assuming no injuries would have been:
PG - Lin / Price / Clarkson
SG - Bryant / Henry / Ellington
SF - Johnson / Young
PF - Boozer / Davis / Kelly
C - Hill / Sacre
Sadly, of the starters on that depth chart, only Kobe played like a starter. After 20 games, Lin and Boozer lost their starting jobs. Hill and Johnson were underwhelming as starters but the alternatives - Sacre and Kelly - were worse. Of the back ups, Price, Henry and Young had injury-shortened seasons (43, 9 and 42 games respectively).
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seriously, "only Kobe played like a starter"? yeah right. when it takes 20 shots to score 22 points... |
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Reflexx
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| Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 2:54 pm Post subject: |
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If we don't get the pick, then I'd offer the max to D. Jordan or M. Gasol. If they don't bite, I don't offer the max to anyone. Instead, I offer Tyson Chandler a good 2 yr contract. Basically, I punt for 2 yrs at Center.
I then offer 6-8 mil to Davis to back up Chandler.
I also offer 6-8 mil to Lin to start with Clarkson. I work with an offense that doesn't differentiate too much between PG and SG, with both being able to bring the ball up.
I sign Brown and Ellington for peanuts.
Kobe gets moved to SF, with Young being his backup.
I make use of Chandler and Lin's biggest strengths by telling Scott to hire an assistant that has expertise in a high p&r system.
If Boozer is willing to stay for cheap, I'd love to have him back.
While I like Black, if we keep Davis then Black is a trade asset.
G: Lin/Brown
G: Clarkson/Ellington
SF: Kobe/Young
PF: Randle/Kelly
C: Chandler/Davis |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 3:21 pm Post subject: Re: Lakers current roster position and potential off-season moves |
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| tonman wrote: | | Dennis_D wrote: | The main reason the Lakers are so bad is that they don't have enough talent. If I had drawn up a depth chart at the start of pre-season, I would have had:
PG - Nash / Lin / Price / Clarkson
SG - Bryant / Henry / Ellington
SF - Johnson / Young
PF - Boozer / Randle / Kelly
C - Hill / Davis / Sacre
Nash went down before the first game. Young and Kelly were injured in pre-season. Randle was injured in the first game and out for the season. After the first game, the depth chart assuming no injuries would have been:
PG - Lin / Price / Clarkson
SG - Bryant / Henry / Ellington
SF - Johnson / Young
PF - Boozer / Davis / Kelly
C - Hill / Sacre
Sadly, of the starters on that depth chart, only Kobe played like a starter. After 20 games, Lin and Boozer lost their starting jobs. Hill and Johnson were underwhelming as starters but the alternatives - Sacre and Kelly - were worse. Of the back ups, Price, Henry and Young had injury-shortened seasons (43, 9 and 42 games respectively).
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seriously, "only Kobe played like a starter"? yeah right. when it takes 20 shots to score 22 points... |
I know where you are going with this, and as a favor to me, let's not...
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 3:27 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | 24 wrote: | | My guess is barring a max signing (or with a max and no pick), Lin and Davis are options at deals in the five mil range. On the extreme no pick no high dollar free agent front, youncoukd see something in the ballpark of Lin, Davis, koufos, Danny green. Go for depth and trade assets. |
Not that the Lakers have had this much cap space in a while, but would be an interesting change of direction for a team that has usually tried the home-run or strike out approach. I agree that the cap money will be spent this summer regardless. But if they went for the 4 1-carat diamonds instead of the 3-4 carat diamond, that would be an interesting shift in that strategy (the home run strategy would likely be employed in 2016 again). |
I am ordinarily of the view that two half priced guys aren't better than the full price guy and a minimum, as a general rule. But given their two year cap space (possibly three) bonanza, if they can't get high dollar high impact, I'm fine with loading up with solid value guys. You still have the cap room for the big ticket guys, your depth and experience will make you more attractive to them, as well as having a lot of reasonably priced trade assets. And Mitch is a witch when he has stuff to trade.
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 3:28 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | 24 wrote: | | My guess is barring a max signing (or with a max and no pick), Lin and Davis are options at deals in the five mil range. On the extreme no pick no high dollar free agent front, youncoukd see something in the ballpark of Lin, Davis, koufos, Danny green. Go for depth and trade assets. |
I think their prices will be something like:
Lin: 6-7
Davis: 6-7
Green: 7-8
Koufous: 6m.
Would Kofous and/or Ed Davis sign with the Lakers though knowing that their PT may be reduced b/c of the other player? This was sort of the problem at Memphis (though if we don't draft a big man like Towns/Okafor/WCS Koufous may start). |
The thing is, one of them would start, and one would be the third big, and both of those are opportunities for good minutes.
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DoubleClutch
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| Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 3:29 pm Post subject: |
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If we don't get to draft either Towns or Okafor, I would go after one of the top C's with max money.
M Gasol - Is anybody really convinced he can win a title in Memphis? I'm not.
D Jordan - Will Clips offer him Max money? Or do they want to chase a guy like Durant next year?
If those guys won't come I'd be ok throwing a max at Love or Monroe. Not a perfect fit with Randle, but we need talent period.
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K0BEE 2.0
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| Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 3:41 pm Post subject: |
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| 24 wrote: | | My guess is barring a max signing (or with a max and no pick), Lin and Davis are options at deals in the five mil range. On the extreme no pick no high dollar free agent front, youncoukd see something in the ballpark of Lin, Davis, koufos, Danny green. Go for depth and trade assets. |
I'm not convinced that Lin would be okay being the 2nd fiddle at the PG spot..... unless Clarkson would get the green light to split minutes at the PG/SG spot which would open up more minutes for Lin.
If anything if Lin is bought up it's because the Lakers couldn't build a good team in FA... something most fans wouldn't want to see. |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 4:22 pm Post subject: |
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| K0BEE 2.0 wrote: | | 24 wrote: | | My guess is barring a max signing (or with a max and no pick), Lin and Davis are options at deals in the five mil range. On the extreme no pick no high dollar free agent front, youncoukd see something in the ballpark of Lin, Davis, koufos, Danny green. Go for depth and trade assets. |
I'm not convinced that Lin would be okay being the 2nd fiddle at the PG spot..... unless Clarkson would get the green light to split minutes at the PG/SG spot which would open up more minutes for Lin.
If anything if Lin is bought up it's because the Lakers couldn't build a good team in FA... something most fans wouldn't want to see. |
The entire assumption of bringing both back would be a three guard lineup with plenty of minutes for both, including minutes together. Allows you to bring in some youngsters to the deep bench and give them metered minutes, and everyone plays a bit more in games Kobe rests or can't go.
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K0BEE 2.0
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| Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 4:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Do you think adding koufus/green + bringing back Davis/Lin is good enough to make the playoffs in the super ultra WC? I'm liking your idea btw 24 I would love to see the lakers create a roster balance attack.. But it might be better going for the homerun this is why I want a top 5 pick if anything else gives us the flexibility to trade for a star player.. And gives the lakers room to still add players via FA. |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 4:36 pm Post subject: |
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| K0BEE 2.0 wrote: | | Do you think adding koufus/green + bringing back Davis/Lin is good enough to make the playoffs in the super ultra WC? I'm liking your idea btw 24 I would love to see the lakers create a roster balance attack.. But it might be better going for the homerun this is why I want a top 5 pick if anything else gives us the flexibility to trade for a star player.. And gives the lakers room to still add players via FA. |
I don't know if that creates a playoff team. Too many variables with health and with what happens with other teams. The idea would not be just to make the playoffs, but to move forward with quality, value priced depth and trade assets.
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 4:40 pm Post subject: |
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In aa center heavy FA year I only spend the max on another PF as a last resort.
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K0BEE 2.0
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| Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 4:52 pm Post subject: |
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| That young contract is preventing the lakers from adding another piece this summer... A true road block... a solid 8m cap to gain by getting rid of that douchebag should be the goal. |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 4:56 pm Post subject: |
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| K0BEE 2.0 wrote: | | That young contract is preventing the lakers from adding another piece this summer... A true road block... a solid 8m cap to gain by getting rid of that douchebag should be the goal. |
Kind of hard to get 8 mil in cap on a guy who will make 5.2
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K0BEE 2.0
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| Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 5:00 pm Post subject: |
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| That 5m can still be used to bring in someone like Corey Joseph. |
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fansincemagic
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| Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 5:22 pm Post subject: |
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| scoobs wrote: | Draft
#4 Deangelo Russell- Best player available on their board. Knicks take Okafor, Wolves take Towns and Sixers suprise everyone and take Mudiay.
#27 Devin Booker- The sharp shooter from Kentucky slides to #27, best player available
#34 Robert Upshaw- Lakers gamble on the shot blocking big
Free Agency
Kevin Love - Thursday got so bad in Cle, he decides to cut his losses and start over in L.A. Would be some what of a homecoming got him and he would have celebrity status in a town of stars. 4years/85million? Whatever max is. The extra 4-5 million that is left could be used on somebody like Ed Davis, Kuofos, Antic or Kevin Serapin. Then, the room exception could be used on a vet small forward type, like Jared Dudley or Shawn Marion.
I would bring back Jabari Brown and Tarik Black, maybe Wes to a minimum deal. Maybe a decent vet pg too.
PF-Love, Randle
SF-Dudley, Young, Johnson
C-Serapin, Upshaw, Black
PG-Russell, Clarkson,vet
SG-Bryant, Booker, Brown
At this point, we have a decent roster. Russell putting up roy numbers, Clarkson and Randle putting up redicuolous per 36 minute numbers, Kobe getting 20ppg, Love putting up 25 and 13. So, by the trade deadline maybe Westbrook demands a trade to the Lakers? We could put together a pretty good package of Russell, Randle, Young and maybe free agents like Dudley/Serapin to balance out contracts.
We then would have a nucleus of
Westbrook
Love
Bryant
And still have young players like
Clarkson
Booker
Upshaw |
It's going to be interesting how some of the big names handle the new CBA. Jim will want to make a big splash to save himself and he has a council that will let him do it. That combined with the reasons you mentioned could land Love in LA. But how does Kevin see himself in the new CBA? Does he save face with a 2015 max slot, or does he press his luck?
Westbrook may look at it the other way. Westbrook will make so much money when he hits the market that he may pass up the extra money to stay in OKC to join a solid young team such as LA. I'm not saying LA passes on trading for him, but does it benefit Westbrook to gut a team during his prime years for the extra money? He's going to be that 29yo that hasn't won a ring in 2017 if Durant has already bolted or breaks down.
You don't sign Love in hopes he sways Westbrook two years later, but if they justify Love as a reasonable deal (vs what the vet max will be) and think they can utilize him this may very well happen. Crazy or not, if they could find a way to play Randle and Love their minutes that could be a great core. |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 5:27 pm Post subject: |
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I think that Love and Randle can work well on offense, not so sure about defense though.
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LakerLogic
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| Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 5:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Getting Love would be a big mistake. Would rather have Asik and Danny Green/Dermarr Carroll. At worst, wait another year. |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 5:37 pm Post subject: |
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| LakerLogic wrote: | | Getting Love would be a big mistake. Would rather have Asik and Danny Green/Dermarr Carroll. At worst, wait another year. |
I was a fan of Asik for his defense and low usage, set picks and get out of the way thing, but he has such terrible hands and finishing ability that he makes you play 4 on 5. As a 5-6 mil backup? Great. But much better options as a starter IMO.
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LakerLogic
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| Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 5:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Sure if you can get one of them, I just don't think those guys are coming here. I'm not a big fan of Asik either but not much else to choose from. Hibbert? Overrated and not worth even close to a max. Maybe Robin Lopez but he doesn't strike me as much of an impact player. |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 5:48 pm Post subject: |
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| LakerLogic wrote: | | Sure if you can get one of them, I just don't think those guys are coming here. I'm not a big fan of Asik either but not much else to choose from. Hibbert? Overrated and not worth even close to a max. Maybe Robin Lopez but he doesn't strike me as much of an impact player. |
Hibbert is one of the 3-4 best defensive anchors in the league. He's much like Marc in that he doesn't use quickness, but plays more zone up and uses his length and very high IQ (both guys quarterback the D on the floor) to defend the rim while the perimeter guys funnel and try to take away the open 3. His downfall is brutal offense and spotty consistency of effort (and like Marc, subpar rebounding at times because of a concentration on positioning for lane protection).
Lopez is a step down but a similar smart, hard nosed defender with length, and on offense he does a bit of everything, including shooting.
If you are looking for a value option, Kosta Koufos would be your man. Does what Asik does on defense, but is a vastly superior offensive player.
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2019
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| Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 5:50 pm Post subject: |
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Assuming we're at the lotto odds hold true, I expect Okafor, Towns, Mudiay off the board 1-3. That leaves us Russell who would be an insanely good fit next to Clarkon going forward. Two smart, confident combo guards who can both make plays, shooter, attack, handle the ball, and play under control.
From there it's almost impossible to say who is there with Houston's pick. Booker (major fall) would be great as would Dekker and RH-J though I think both have moved into the top 20.
With the second rounder, Upshaw would be amazing.
Go into FA and sign Marc Gasol.
Gasol/Upshaw
Randle/Black/Kelly
Dekker/Swaggy P
Kobe/Russell
Clarkson/Lin |
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fansincemagic
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| Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 5:54 pm Post subject: Re: Lakers current roster position and potential off-season moves |
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A lot of info has been exhausted on the board, but that's a nice summary of what may be realistic. I'll play along with the conclusion. So they end up with Winslow and sift through the centers. I didn't see Monroe listed, I'd consider him for the same reason as Love (talent over fit). So if Gasol, Jordan and Monroe stay it should setup a bidding war for a few teams fighting over the cream of the remaining crop. The question then is which team will LA be? Will they be the ones throwing close to current max at a Hibbert/Lopez, or will they be the ones with Asik for say 2/3 the price when the market settles and the buyers are gone.
As for the big picture you paint, I'd also wonder how long LA waits out their plan A guys (Gasol? Love?) before they go to plan B? Is plan B running through the big named RFA's in hopes that one offer doesn't get matched? The bigger issue is this new CBA is going to have some agents and players torn on which direction to go. I get that you don't give money to just anyone, but there are going to be a few solid B or C+ grade players that will just take the deal now I bet. |
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Dennis_D
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| Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 6:27 pm Post subject: |
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My main point is that for a very bad team, the Lakers have a decently deep roster. They could easily have a two-deep roster next season (sign a FA center, draft Winslow, lots of options for backup PG and SG) plus more (3 deep at PF and C, #27 and #34 draft picks). Things could also not go their way.
| venturalakersfan wrote: | | Good post, things aren't as bleak as some seem to think. We have two nice young pieces (at least) going forward, we just need to bring in some vets to play with them. The question is, do we go with one big FA this offseason and one big FA next offseason? Or do we break that salary slot up and get a couple of tier 2 players this offseason and a big FA next? Or a couple now and a couple more in 2016? The name of the game is to have moveable assets that can play, so it will be interesting to see how the FO approaches that. |
It's too hard to predict what free agents will be available in the future and what their interest will be in the Lakers. Cap space is critical, but how it is used to get a top player can vary. Look at how the Lakers acquired Pau Gasol. Look at how the Rockets acquired Harden. I think the Lakers FO has to go all out to get a center this off-season as there normally aren't so many available. If they get one through the draft, then no FA signing. Because the Lakers have had such a bad season, they would have to pay a premium now to sign a FA and that's a bad thing. I'd rather they focus on acquiring assets through drafting and low-risk moves until they're good enough that a big FA signing will make them a contender.
| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Dennis, for better or worse, if Love is available and wants to be a Laker, I see that happening. I've vacillated on Love over the past 2 seasons, but I'm at the point where I can understand/accept that move should it occur. The hope is we can draft a big man IMO. |
Signing Love is a terrible move. Love would suck up all of Randle's PT and the Lakers can't get value for Randle right now because he hasn't demonstrated how good of a player he is. Signing Love precludes the Laker from signing a starting C or SF, which they need far more.
| activeverb wrote: | | I see next season as a complete question mark. Will Kobe be healthy? Will the young guys develop? Will the draft picks pan out? What free agents will sign here? |
Yes, but the last two off-seasons have also been complete question marks. Are the Lakers accumulating talent? Yes. If everything goes wrong, could the Lakers wind up worse? No, but I could see them not improving much. I feel that Clarkson is going to continue on his path of rapidly improving. The impression I had of Randle was that he was going to be a top 10 rookie, probably a top 5. I think he'll be as good if not better than that next season. The Lakers first rounder is to me by far the biggest question mark.
| activeverb wrote: | | I don't think we'll be true competitors until the post-Kobe era. I accept that we are still at the start of the rebuilding. |
I guess I should have been clearer - I define "competitor" as a playoff quality team and "contender" as someone who can potentially win the title. If things go right for the Lakers this off-season, I see them as being able to compete for a playoff spot.
| Anthony Peeler wrote: | You presented a best case scenario but let me present the more likely scenario, which is pretty dim.
It's likely that Bryant will not play a full season due to injuries. Maybe even worse will be if he DOES play a full season, chucking up shots while shooting 37% FG and playing Harden-like defense. |
One of the reasons Kobe was shooting so much was that the rest of the team had so little talent. If he's playing with Clarkson and a Randle that is hopefully better than what we saw in the pre-season, then there won't be the need for Kobe to generate so much offense. Even less of a need if the Lakers get a top 5 pick.
| Anthony Peeler wrote: | | Similarly, a healthy Swaggy P, even at his best, is still a detriment to the team due to his one dimensional ways. |
I don't think Swaggy P is a detriment to the team if he score like he did last season. He provides instant offense off the bench. Regardless, I think a healthy Swaggy P provides more value than what the Lakers have had at back up SG and SF this season.
| Chronicle wrote: | | I really don't want Lin to return , and frankly I don't think he wants to return either. |
Lin is an option, but not necessarily the best option. I mentioned getting Livingston from the Warriors ideally with a first round pick. Looking over the HoopsHype point gaurd free agent list, none of them look both better and more affordable than Lin.
| Chronicle wrote: | I'm also not set on Brown. And I'm very iffy on the FO. I feel like they've been two steps behind for a few seasons now.
Yes they got Clarkson. But that's a small part of the FO. One of the scouts convinced them to offer cash for a second rounder. Very very low risk move. I am not convinced any other facet of the FO knows what they're doing. |
I'm a Mitch fan from way back. He's patient, which drives fans who want something done NOW nuts.
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