| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
22
Franchise Player
Joined: 05 Apr 2013
Posts: 17063
|
 Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2015 9:59 am Post subject: |
|
|
| yinoma2001 wrote: | | 22 wrote: | | tony smith wrote: | | 10scott10 wrote: | | The key difference was that they we're willing to trade away players who are important to their team's history, while we tried to take care of ours. |
Yup. And if we lose our pick this year... there will be no denying that Boston's FO is indeed running circles around us. |
would you trade our roster, cap situation, and FO for theirs? I sure as heck wouldn't. We are ahead of them in every area except HC IMO |
Well, the Lakers always enjoyed the advantage of...LA.
Assuming we get their assets/roster/coach and get to run it all in LA...? |
yup. Assuming you get all of that and stay in LA with the Lakers brand too.
I still say no |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
SDLakersFan
Star Player
Joined: 01 Apr 2012
Posts: 2044
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2015 10:01 am Post subject: |
|
|
He must not remember how terrible Boston was before McHale handed him a championship.
Another reason I hate Ray Allen...him agreeing to the Boston trade made them appealing to KG. Then comes Posey, House, Cassell, and PJ Brown. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
yinoma2001
Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2015 10:03 am Post subject: |
|
|
| 22 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | 22 wrote: | | tony smith wrote: | | 10scott10 wrote: | | The key difference was that they we're willing to trade away players who are important to their team's history, while we tried to take care of ours. |
Yup. And if we lose our pick this year... there will be no denying that Boston's FO is indeed running circles around us. |
would you trade our roster, cap situation, and FO for theirs? I sure as heck wouldn't. We are ahead of them in every area except HC IMO |
Well, the Lakers always enjoyed the advantage of...LA.
Assuming we get their assets/roster/coach and get to run it all in LA...? |
yup. Assuming you get all of that and stay in LA with the Lakers brand too.
I still say no |
If we don't get a top 5 pick then I'd take Boston's assets. Given that it'd be LA, we could package all those 1st rounders to get a star here as well as free agency. Boston can't do that.
_________________
From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
22
Franchise Player
Joined: 05 Apr 2013
Posts: 17063
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2015 10:11 am Post subject: |
|
|
| yinoma2001 wrote: | | 22 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | 22 wrote: | | tony smith wrote: | | 10scott10 wrote: | | The key difference was that they we're willing to trade away players who are important to their team's history, while we tried to take care of ours. |
Yup. And if we lose our pick this year... there will be no denying that Boston's FO is indeed running circles around us. |
would you trade our roster, cap situation, and FO for theirs? I sure as heck wouldn't. We are ahead of them in every area except HC IMO |
Well, the Lakers always enjoyed the advantage of...LA.
Assuming we get their assets/roster/coach and get to run it all in LA...? |
yup. Assuming you get all of that and stay in LA with the Lakers brand too.
I still say no |
If we don't get a top 5 pick then I'd take Boston's assets. Given that it'd be LA, we could package all those 1st rounders to get a star here as well as free agency. Boston can't do that. |
Not me. I don't think all those first rounders can net you a real star because they aren't all lottery picks. Plus you'd just have a star and a bunch of role players.
For this argument, let's say we lose the top 5. I'd rather have two budding rookies with all-star potential and our cap than all of the Celtics picks/assets.
For me it's about quality not quantity. If this were the NFL they'd have a better situation though |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
yinoma2001
Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2015 10:14 am Post subject: |
|
|
Except Boston is in place to be a player in the next James Harden scenario, where Boston can unload several possible lottery picks (thank you Nets) for a disgruntled star, or throw a few 1st rounders to a team to agree to a S&T for a RFA.
_________________
From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
venturalakersfan
Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144469
Location: The Gold Coast
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2015 10:18 am Post subject: |
|
|
Just the fact that Boston took Smart over Randle shows me that they are struggling with player evaluation.
_________________
RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
yinoma2001
Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2015 10:19 am Post subject: |
|
|
| venturalakersfan wrote: | | Just the fact that Boston took Smart over Randle shows me that they are struggling with player evaluation. |
Let's hope and pray that Randle comes back healthy next season.
_________________
From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Megaton
Retired Number
Joined: 18 Feb 2015
Posts: 25648
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2015 10:20 am Post subject: |
|
|
| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Except Boston is in place to be a player in the next James Harden scenario, where Boston can unload several possible lottery picks (thank you Nets) for a disgruntled star, or throw a few 1st rounders to a team to agree to a S&T for a RFA. |
That is VERY risky. And a situation that doesn't happen often.
There is a reason why before that KG/Ray Allen deals the Celtics only won 1 title since 1987. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
22
Franchise Player
Joined: 05 Apr 2013
Posts: 17063
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2015 10:21 am Post subject: |
|
|
| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Except Boston is in place to be a player in the next James Harden scenario, where Boston can unload several possible lottery picks (thank you Nets) for a disgruntled star, or throw a few 1st rounders to a team to agree to a S&T for a RFA. |
And if those opportunities (which don't come around often) don't arise?
At least in our situation if we never sign a marquee FA we will be creating two of our own.
We are on a much better track for a GSW type build. Drafted Steph, Klay, and Barnes. They let them develop and grow together and added solid vets like Bogut, Iggy, Lee. Now the team has chemistry and young stars that they can retain.
I'd prefer this route. I think it yields far better returns than shuffling picks and players around constantly. Trade for a few key pieces. But develop the rest through your own home grown so have chemistry and trust. We are well on our way with Clutchson and Randle. At a certain point you gotta hitch your wagon to a horse and go. The Celtics don't have anyone worth hitching to at the moment |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
yinoma2001
Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2015 10:24 am Post subject: |
|
|
| 22 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Except Boston is in place to be a player in the next James Harden scenario, where Boston can unload several possible lottery picks (thank you Nets) for a disgruntled star, or throw a few 1st rounders to a team to agree to a S&T for a RFA. |
And if those opportunities (which don't come around often) don't arise?
At least in our situation if we never sign a marquee FA we will be creating two of our own.
We are on a much better track for a GSW type build. Drafted Steph, Klay, and Barnes. They let them develop and grow together and added solid vets like Bogut, Iggy, Lee. Now the team has chemistry and young stars that they can retain.
I'd prefer this route. I think it yields far better returns than shuffling picks and players around constantly. Trade for a few key pieces. But develop the rest through your own home grown so have chemistry and trust. We are well on our way with Clutchson and Randle. At a certain point you gotta hitch your wagon to a horse and go. The Celtics don't have anyone worth hitching to at the moment |
Those Nets picks, keep an eye on them. They may be a top 5 pick as the Nets have no foreseeable way to get out of their mess, especially if Brook Lopez opts out and signs elsewhere. If we don't get a top 5 pick this summer, I doubt we see one again for quite some time.
Again, in our hypo it's assuming we get the same assets/coach/etc. in LA. The reason why we will always beat Boston is LA. Who the heck wants to live in Boston when you can be in LA, all things equal? (apologies to Angrypuppy and ChefLinda of course  ).
_________________
From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
32
Retired Number
Joined: 04 Nov 2009
Posts: 73071
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2015 10:33 am Post subject: |
|
|
One championship since 1986. Keep up the good work Boston!
_________________
Nobody in the NBA can touch the Laker brand, which, like the uniform color, is pure gold. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
LakerDYnasty72
Star Player
Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Posts: 4572
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2015 11:19 am Post subject: |
|
|
| 32 wrote: | | One championship since 1986. Keep up the good work Boston! |
Didn't they win another at our expense more recent than that? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
32
Retired Number
Joined: 04 Nov 2009
Posts: 73071
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2015 11:27 am Post subject: |
|
|
| LakerDYnasty72 wrote: | | 32 wrote: | | One championship since 1986. Keep up the good work Boston! |
Didn't they win another at our expense more recent than that? |
Yeah. After 1986 they won one.
_________________
Nobody in the NBA can touch the Laker brand, which, like the uniform color, is pure gold. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
rwongega
Franchise Player
Joined: 20 Jul 2005
Posts: 20510
Location: UCLA -> NY
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
JerryMagicKobe
Moderator
Joined: 28 Jul 2005
Posts: 15100
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2015 11:52 am Post subject: |
|
|
The Celtics picks in the next 4 drafts are impressive in quantity (19), but not so much in quality. Here are their picks and where they would land based on this year’s record:
2015 Celtics (14)
2015 Mavs First (22)
2015 Clippers First (26)
2015 76ers Second (33)
2016 Nets First (13)
2016 Celtics (14)
2016 T-Wolves Second (32)
2016 76ers Second (33)
2016 Heat Second (44)
2016 Mavs Second (52)
2016 Cavs Second (53)
2017 Nets First (13)
2017 Grizzlies First (28)
2017 T-Wolves Second (32)
2017 Cavs Second (53)
2017 Clippers Second (56)
2018 Brooklyn First (13)
2018 Celtics First (14)
2018 Celtics Second (44)
Their best picks will be the 3 first rounders (13) acquired from the Nets in the Pierce/Garnett trade, made even more attractive by the inevitable collapse coming to that franchise. These are the picks to build around.
They have 3 of their own first rounders (14).
They have 3 late firsts (22, 26, 28).
They have 4 early seconds (32, 32, 33, 33) which could be more valuable than the late firsts.
They have 6 late seconds (44-56).
Obviously there is not room for 19 picks on a roster, let alone their current players, so I imagine Ainge will be on the phone looking to package multiple picks to move up or as sweeteners for trades, but the reality is he has a mediocre roster and mediocre picks.
A lot of mediocre picks. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
danzag
Franchise Player
Joined: 28 Apr 2013
Posts: 22378
Location: Brazil
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2015 11:54 am Post subject: |
|
|
| 32 wrote: | | One championship since 1986. Keep up the good work Boston! |
This pretty much sums it all.
Boston and Philly will FAIL. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bard207
Star Player
Joined: 08 Jan 2013
Posts: 7713
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2015 1:59 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Megaton wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Except Boston is in place to be a player in the next James Harden scenario, where Boston can unload several possible lottery picks (thank you Nets) for a disgruntled star, or throw a few 1st rounders to a team to agree to a S&T for a RFA. |
That is VERY risky. And a situation that doesn't happen often.
There is a reason why before that KG/Ray Allen deals the Celtics only won 1 title since 1987. |
Probably at least two reasons:
* Len Bias never playing for Boston
* The 1997 Draft with Duncan going to the Spurs |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Alpha
Moderator
Joined: 07 Jul 2002
Posts: 25149
Location: hawaii
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2015 3:15 pm Post subject: Re: "Boston’s front office has run circles around the Lakers..." |
|
|
| Dennis_D wrote: | | At times, I wonder if sports writers read their own articles. Zach Lowe has an article up on Grantland that is comically self-contradictory.... |
Dannnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnng! Zach Lowe, you just got served!   |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
activeverb
Retired Number
Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 37470
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2015 3:25 pm Post subject: Re: "Boston’s front office has run circles around the Lakers..." |
|
|
| Dennis_D wrote: | At times, I wonder if sports writers read their own articles.
I would define "absolutely nailed Phase I" of a rebuild as acquiring three potential stars. If Clarkson, Randle and the Lakers 2015 top 5 pick all look like potential stars, then I would say the Lakers absolutely nailed Phase I of their rebuild.
|
I must admit I didn't quite understand your post I didn't read the article, but based on your excerpts I took it that Lowe was saying Boston had done a great job in his definition of phase 1 (clearing space and gathering picks), but hadn't gone a great job using that cap space or pick.
| Dennis_D wrote: | | I would define "absolutely nailed Phase I" of a rebuild as acquiring three potential stars. If Clarkson, Randle and the Lakers 2015 top 5 pick all look like potential stars, then I would say the Lakers absolutely nailed Phase I of their rebuild. |
I am a little baffled why you think the Lakers not-yet-taken draft pick (assuming we even get it) is "a potential star" but the Celtics not-yet-taken "six extra first-round picks" don't get credit for being potential stars. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Dennis_D
LG Contributor
Joined: 12 Apr 2001
Posts: 2017
Location: North Dallas
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2015 6:20 pm Post subject: Re: "Boston’s front office has run circles around the Lakers..." |
|
|
| activeverb wrote: | | Dennis_D wrote: | At times, I wonder if sports writers read their own articles.
I would define "absolutely nailed Phase I" of a rebuild as acquiring three potential stars. If Clarkson, Randle and the Lakers 2015 top 5 pick all look like potential stars, then I would say the Lakers absolutely nailed Phase I of their rebuild.
|
I must admit I didn't quite understand your post I didn't read the article, but based on your excerpts I took it that Lowe was saying Boston had done a great job in his definition of phase 1 (clearing space and gathering picks), but hadn't gone a great job using that cap space or pick. |
He doesn't give a definition of "phase 1". The way he tosses the term around, it sounds like rebuilding has one phase. Or maybe what I think of as rebuilding (a team radically changes its roster to be able to contend in the future, typically involving years out of the playoffs) is the same thing as his phase 1.
| activeverb wrote: | | Dennis_D wrote: | | I would define "absolutely nailed Phase I" of a rebuild as acquiring three potential stars. If Clarkson, Randle and the Lakers 2015 top 5 pick all look like potential stars, then I would say the Lakers absolutely nailed Phase I of their rebuild. |
I am a little baffled why you think the Lakers not-yet-taken draft pick (assuming we even get it) is "a potential star" but the Celtics not-yet-taken "six extra first-round picks" don't get credit for being potential stars. |
I didn't say the Lakers had absolutely nailed Phase 1. If they get lucky this summer, they could move beyond rebuilding next season. But if they don't, then they won't. I was stating how the Lakers could achieve absolutely nailing Phase 1 per how I would define absolutely nailing Phase 1.
Was that clear?
_________________
<-- My avatar is Margaret Nolan from one of the Carry On films. She was the girl who got painted gold in "Goldfinger". Thanks to CaliRyderX for identifying her. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Dennis_D
LG Contributor
Joined: 12 Apr 2001
Posts: 2017
Location: North Dallas
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2015 6:47 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| JerryMagicKobe wrote: | The Celtics picks in the next 4 drafts are impressive in quantity (19), but not so much in quality. Here are their picks and where they would land based on this year’s record:
2015 Celtics (14)
2015 Mavs First (22)
2015 Clippers First (26)
2015 76ers Second (33)
:
|
Nice research. I think they keep their second round pick this draft (link)
The Celtics are in an interesting position in that they have so many mediocre players and draft picks that having so many picks could be counter-productive. They have 10 players with contracts for next season: Wallace, Thomas, Bradley, Smart, Turner, Olynyk, Zeller, Sullinger, Pressey, Young. Add 5 draft picks to that and the Celtics have no roster room for re-signing their own free agents (Bass, Jerebko and Crowder are UFA's in the rotation) or someone else's. Replacing three rotation players with rookies drafted with mediocre picks is a sure way to set the franchise back.
_________________
<-- My avatar is Margaret Nolan from one of the Carry On films. She was the girl who got painted gold in "Goldfinger". Thanks to CaliRyderX for identifying her. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
LakerLanny
Retired Number
Joined: 24 Oct 2001
Posts: 47581
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2015 7:53 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| venturalakersfan wrote: | | Just the fact that Boston took Smart over Randle shows me that they are struggling with player evaluation. |
Smart blows and I said so before last years draft. Randle = Star in the Making, Smart = Role Player or Flat Out Bust
_________________
Love, Laker Lanny |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
JerryMagicKobe
Moderator
Joined: 28 Jul 2005
Posts: 15100
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2015 9:24 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Dennis_D wrote: | | JerryMagicKobe wrote: | The Celtics picks in the next 4 drafts are impressive in quantity (19), but not so much in quality. Here are their picks and where they would land based on this year’s record:
2015 Celtics (14)
2015 Mavs First (22)
2015 Clippers First (26)
2015 76ers Second (33)
:
|
Nice research. I think they keep their second round pick this draft (link)
The Celtics are in an interesting position in that they have so many mediocre players and draft picks that having so many picks could be counter-productive. They have 10 players with contracts for next season: Wallace, Thomas, Bradley, Smart, Turner, Olynyk, Zeller, Sullinger, Pressey, Young. Add 5 draft picks to that and the Celtics have no roster room for re-signing their own free agents (Bass, Jerebko and Crowder are UFA's in the rotation) or someone else's. Replacing three rotation players with rookies drafted with mediocre picks is a sure way to set the franchise back. |
Agreed - best of luck to them in finding trade partners willing to take multiple mediocre picks to let them move up. The volume of picks will force them to make trades from a weak negotiating standpoint, if for no other reason than to trim the roster.
You are right for this year's second. It is protected 31-55, so they will most certainly keep it. So, it is actually 20 picks.
20 mediocre picks. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
nevitt_smrek
Star Player
Joined: 15 Jun 2009
Posts: 2803
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2015 12:11 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I don't see many big FA's running to Boston. Which picks have been truly noteworthy? Besides Marcus Smart, who stinks. So glad they got him.
Lakers will be ahead of those guys before you know it. Hope they enjoy their 9th or 10th place finish.
_________________
Smrek 2, Nevitt 1, Barkley 0 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kikanga
Retired Number
Joined: 15 Sep 2012
Posts: 29337
Location: La La Land
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2015 1:46 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| yinoma2001 wrote: | | I'd rather be in Philly's shoes than Boston's. |
_________________
"Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better” |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
