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WindyCityLakerFan
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Joined: 18 Jul 2002
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Location: Chicago
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 Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2015 5:48 am Post subject: |
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| They both tried to tank. Boston made the mistake of hiring a excellent head coach. Competing for a playoff spot with that roster after trading away Rondo and green. Trade Scott for Stevens and Boston is getting a top five pick and the Lakers are kissing their pick goodbye |
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Telleris
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Joined: 28 May 2013
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| Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2015 6:41 am Post subject: |
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The article to me reads more like a lamentation piece
Boston have done basically everything right and it doesn't seem to lead to anywhere in particular.
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ocho
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| Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2015 7:49 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | Just the fact that Boston took Smart over Randle shows me that they are struggling with player evaluation. |
Time will tell. Smart is still a monster defender, even as a rook. Hit a game winner last night. |
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LandsbergerRules
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Joined: 29 Aug 2004
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Location: The Other Perspective
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| Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2015 8:20 am Post subject: |
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| WindyCityLakerFan wrote: | | They both tried to tank. Boston made the mistake of hiring a excellent head coach. Competing for a playoff spot with that roster after trading away Rondo and green. Trade Scott for Stevens and Boston is getting a top five pick and the Lakers are kissing their pick goodbye |
This is what annoys me most these days. When looking for coaches post-Phil, our front office always goes for names and retreads instead of taking a chance and trying to find the next great young coach.
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WindyCityLakerFan
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| Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2015 10:20 am Post subject: |
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| Telleris wrote: | The article to me reads more like a lamentation piece
Boston have done basically everything right and it doesn't seem to lead to anywhere in particular. |
Because of the head coach they hired. |
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leor_77
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Joined: 23 Mar 2012
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| Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2015 11:44 am Post subject: |
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Even though Zach Lowe is a Celtics ball washer, we did make crucial mistakes by getting nothing for Pau, getting nothing for Dwight, giving away draft picks for a crappy, decrepit Steve Nash, etc. Hell, we even got nothing out of Ed Davis, Hill and Lin at the past deadline, which could have possibly set us up for a better pick. Isaiah Thomas is an excellent pickup.
With that said, there is still luck involved. I would take Clarkson over ANY first rounder that they drafted (Sullinger, Melo, Smart, Olynik, etc.). Also, we could get lucky and get a good pick in this draft, as well as get lucky with Randle's development. Still needs to play out, but YES, we made some big mistakes. |
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LakerLogic
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Joined: 27 Mar 2005
Posts: 17886
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| Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2015 12:51 pm Post subject: |
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| There isn't anyone on the Celtics roster I would want on the Lakers. Philly has gotten potential lottery picks for overrated talent. Now that is smart. I still think their drafting skills leave a lot to be desired. |
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nevitt_smrek
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Joined: 15 Jun 2009
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| Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2015 12:39 pm Post subject: |
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smh, can't believe the Celts are realistically gonna be in. Nets have snuck their way into the driver's seat too. Never woulda guessed.
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2015 1:42 pm Post subject: Re: "Boston’s front office has run circles around the Lakers..." |
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| Dennis_D wrote: | If they don't have a clear path to 50 wins, I'd say that haven't absolutely nailed Phase 1 of the rebuild.
. . . .
I would define "absolutely nailed Phase I" of a rebuild as acquiring three potential stars. |
Zach Lowe wouldn't, and neither would I. I suspect that 99% of the people who read that piece understood exactly what he meant. You seem to be a 1%er. Congrats, I guess.
Danny Ainge is following the same game plan that he followed last time around: acquire lots of pieces, see what develops, and wait for the opportunity to make a move. I find it interesting that people here are so high on Clarkson and Randle, but I'd rather be in Boston's position right now. We're gambling on ping pong balls this year. There is a significant chance that we will not have a good draft pick. We're also gambling on the free agent market. LA is a more attractive market than Boston, but it's going to be hard to entice a high profile player to come to LA if we don't have better pieces than Clarkson and Randle. I'd rather have all of the pieces and picks and the attractive market. Then we'd be in business. |
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22
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| Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2015 2:13 pm Post subject: |
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AH go look at the pieces Boston has. I think GT listed them in the FA thread in the lounge. All mediocre picks. We already know their players are mediocre.
I would not trade assets with them at all. In this league it's about quality not quantity. Clarkson and Randle are better prospects than anything on bostons roster. Plus we have up to 4 picks this year? Including a top 5? Far better than all the mid first rounders Boston has |
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2015 3:10 pm Post subject: |
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I don't want to fall into the trap of trashing our own players to make a point, so take these comments in the right spirit. I would like to see Clarkson and Randle emerge as star quality players. However . . . .
What do you really think that Clarkson's ceiling is? Honestly, I don't think it's very high. He got a chance to play a bunch of minutes on a bad team, and he did pretty well. He should have a long NBA career ahead of him, which is fantastic for a guy who got picked in the middle of the second round. I don't see star quality, though.
Does anyone really know what Randle is going to be? I don't think I've ever seen anyone get so hyped after 14 minutes, two points, and a broken leg.
As for the top 5 pick, that all depends on the ping pong balls. If we come out with a top 5 pick, and if we avoid picking a surprise bust, that's great. But if we wind up at 6 and lose the pick, it is a freaking disaster of the first magnitude. If we pick someone who turns out to be overhyped, or who pulls an Oden, we're screwed. I don't care how many other picks we have.
So, how lucky do you feel?
Ainge is doing business the same way he did last time. He's going to look to wheel and deal, and he needs pieces to do it. I think he's going to have a tougher go of it this time, but we shall see. |
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22
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| Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2015 3:18 pm Post subject: |
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You don't have to trash our players at all. Simply compare them to what's on bostons roster since that's the question in the thread.
Who on their roster has a higher ceiling than Clarkson or randle?
Which of their picks are better then our top 5 this year?
We have the better assets lol |
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2015 4:00 pm Post subject: |
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We don't have a top five pick this year. We might have a top five pick this year. That is a highly relevant distinction.
Isaiah Thomas is a better player right now than Clarkson. I'm not a fan of midget PGs, but I don't know that Clarkson has a higher ceiling. As for Randle, his ceiling is purely speculative. Some people imagine him as a star, but he hasn't done enough for anyone to form an intelligent opinion. Is he going to be better than Sullinger or Smart? I hope so. But those guys are really playing, and Randle isn't. |
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22
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| Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2015 5:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | We don't have a top five pick this year. We might have a top five pick this year. That is a highly relevant distinction.
Isaiah Thomas is a better player right now than Clarkson. I'm not a fan of midget PGs, but I don't know that Clarkson has a higher ceiling. As for Randle, his ceiling is purely speculative. Some people imagine him as a star, but he hasn't done enough for anyone to form an intelligent opinion. Is he going to be better than Sullinger or Smart? I hope so. But those guys are really playing, and Randle isn't. |
If your best argument for the C's is Isaiah thomas (a player we turned down), sullinger, and smart I'd say the Lakers win by a mile. |
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2015 5:09 pm Post subject: |
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Boston did much better with assets on the way out. Traded KG. Pierce. Even Rondo.
The two both had super teams in the 2008-2011 era. Lakers overpaid Kobe. They lost Gaosl for nothing and disrepected him. They lost Dwight/Bynum basically for no longterm asset. They picked three bad coaches (be it for fit or whatever) in a row.
Until 2011 Lakers had this. In the last 3-4 years our FO has been very very subpar. Bostons isn't way better but we've been worse. In hoping it's just the change from Jacksons coaching philosophy influencing the franchise stopping in 2011 and Kobe decline/retirement. I hope this is not longterm. Because three bad coaching hires in a row and losing assets for nothing makes you drop a few notches in my book. |
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22
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| Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2015 5:13 pm Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | Boston did much better with assets on the way out. Traded KG. Pierce. Even Rondo.
The two both had super teams in the 2008-2011 era. Lakers overpaid Kobe. They lost Gaosl for nothing and disrepected him. They lost Dwight/Bynum basically for no longterm asset. They picked three bad coaches (be it for fit or whatever) in a row.
Until 2011 Lakers had this. In the last 3-4 years our FO has been very very subpar. Bostons isn't way better but we've been worse. In hoping it's just the change from Jacksons coaching philosophy influencing the franchise stopping in 2011 and Kobe decline/retirement. I hope this is not longterm. Because three bad coaching hires in a row and losing assets for nothing makes you drop a few notches in my book. |
And yet at the moment we have better assets than them. Disagree with how we got there, but we have the better pieces moving forward. In addition to having a better rep amongst the players and agents. They have the better rep with the media though. Other than that their only advantage is head coach |
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2015 6:16 pm Post subject: |
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| 22 wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | We don't have a top five pick this year. We might have a top five pick this year. That is a highly relevant distinction.
Isaiah Thomas is a better player right now than Clarkson. I'm not a fan of midget PGs, but I don't know that Clarkson has a higher ceiling. As for Randle, his ceiling is purely speculative. Some people imagine him as a star, but he hasn't done enough for anyone to form an intelligent opinion. Is he going to be better than Sullinger or Smart? I hope so. But those guys are really playing, and Randle isn't. |
If your best argument for the C's is Isaiah thomas (a player we turned down), sullinger, and smart I'd say the Lakers win by a mile. |
I appreciate your optimism, and I hope you're right. Again, I don't want to get into the negative mindset of trashing our players to make a point in a message board discussion. However, I am struck by how highly some of you are valuing Clarkson and Randle. Past experience on this board makes me wary of things like this. Let's just hope that the ping pong ball gods favor us and that Randle turns into Zach Randolph 2.0. |
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2015 6:48 pm Post subject: |
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Lakers have better assets is debatable.
However the Lakers have a greater opportunity to improve this summer and in that regard they can definitely get themselves back ahead of Boston. |
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22
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| Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2015 7:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | 22 wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | We don't have a top five pick this year. We might have a top five pick this year. That is a highly relevant distinction.
Isaiah Thomas is a better player right now than Clarkson. I'm not a fan of midget PGs, but I don't know that Clarkson has a higher ceiling. As for Randle, his ceiling is purely speculative. Some people imagine him as a star, but he hasn't done enough for anyone to form an intelligent opinion. Is he going to be better than Sullinger or Smart? I hope so. But those guys are really playing, and Randle isn't. |
If your best argument for the C's is Isaiah thomas (a player we turned down), sullinger, and smart I'd say the Lakers win by a mile. |
I appreciate your optimism, and I hope you're right. Again, I don't want to get into the negative mindset of trashing our players to make a point in a message board discussion. However, I am struck by how highly some of you are valuing Clarkson and Randle. Past experience on this board makes me wary of things like this. Let's just hope that the ping pong ball gods favor us and that Randle turns into Zach Randolph 2.0. |
It's not even optimism. If the Celtics could trade sullinger, thomas, and smart for Clarkson and Randle they would do it in a heartbeat. That's the truth. Both of them have more upside than anyone on their team.
Believe it or not. It's not optimism it's just facts. If you don't see it you probably haven't watched those players enough. Ask any reputable poster on here. GT, DB, Mike @ LG. I bet none of them would say thomas, smart, and sullinger are better prospects than Clarkson and Randle. |
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lakersken80
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| Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2015 11:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Celtics collected a lot of draft picks...but the real reason why they look so good is because they play in the pathetic eastern conference where a record like theirs gets them a 7th seed in the playoffs, while in the west, with the same record they would be where the Utah Jazz are now, 11th place and out of the playoffs. |
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kikanga
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| Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2015 12:56 am Post subject: |
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| lakersken80 wrote: | | Celtics collected a lot of draft picks...but the real reason why they look so good is because they play in the pathetic eastern conference where a record like theirs gets them a 7th seed in the playoffs, while in the west, with the same record they would be where the Utah Jazz are now, 11th place and out of the playoffs. |
 Pretty sure the LG mods could make the playoffs in the weak Eastern Conference.
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2015 7:51 am Post subject: |
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| 22 wrote: | | It's not even optimism. If the Celtics could trade sullinger, thomas, and smart for Clarkson and Randle they would do it in a heartbeat. That's the truth. Both of them have more upside than anyone on their team. |
No, it's optimism. I doubt that any team or fan base in the league values Clarkson or Randle at 50% of how they are valued on this board. I hope you turn out to be right, though. |
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Chronicle
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| Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2015 8:20 am Post subject: |
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Be that as it may, I agree with 22 that the Celtics would do that trade
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defense
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| Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2015 9:24 am Post subject: |
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I agree with Aeneas Hunter. Randle has yet to play a game in the nba so I have to wait to see what he turns into. Clarkson has looked good these last 10 or 15 games but we won't know that he can do that for an entire season on a competitive team until we actually have a decent team. The final scary fact is that we could lose our pick. If we do this season was brutal and we get nothing out of it.
I don't look so much for players potential to be stars as I do the teams potential to compete for a playoff spot and eventually a championship. The Celtics could already accomplish the playoff part with young players. |
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2015 9:44 am Post subject: |
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| Chronicle wrote: | | Be that as it may, I agree with 22 that the Celtics would do that trade |
Really? The Celtics passed on Randle in the draft, in large part because of health concerns. He just missed his entire rookie season with an injury (albeit not a foot injury, which is what they were worried about). So now you think that the Celtics would trade for him?
Anyway, I'm fairly sure that the Celtics would decline that trade, but for a different reason. It doesn't fit with Ainge's rebuilding strategy. He wants tradeable pieces, not guys who might have "upside." Even if Ainge evaluated Clarkson and Randle in the same way as some of the posters on this board (which is questionable), they wouldn't fit with what he is trying to do. |
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