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Who's your NBA MVP"
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Who's your NBA MVP?

LeBron James

[ 2 ]

James Harden

17%

[ 18 ]

Stephen Curry

65%

[ 67 ]

Russell Westbrook

11%

[ 12 ]

Other (name)

[ 3 ]

Total Votes : 102

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USCandLakers
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Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2015 1:52 pm Post subject:

CandyCanes wrote:

Lakers2015 wrote:

danzag wrote:

SHAQ/KOBE=#1 wrote:

Chris Broussard voted for Harden. What did he have to say about Curry? "He has Klay Thompson."

Yes, voters do penalize players for having good teammates.

This is (bleep). The same (bleep) who didn't voted for Kobe... guess what... when he didn't have a (bleep) teammate back in 06 and 07.

Wouldn't say that. Kobe did have Lamar who was basically a 15/10 player in his prime.

Other than that though...

Lamar was notorious for his inconsistency. Would be 25/15 one game and then 4 and 4 the next.

4/2/2 to be more specific.

For some reason that particular game when he netted that line stands out for me.
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KeepItRealOrElse
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Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2015 2:07 pm Post subject:

Now Id give it to Curry. 7th best record in NBA history? U kidding me

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Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2015 2:49 pm Post subject:

KeepItRealOrElse wrote:

Now Id give it to Curry. 7th best record in NBA history? U kidding me

And it could've been better if they didn't rest their players.

To me it's clearly Curry.

Honorable mentions to Harden and Davis

kikanga
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Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2015 10:11 pm Post subject:

Curry should get it. Best player on best team. That's how its been decided in the past. _________________ "Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better”

nevitt_smrek
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Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2015 6:50 am Post subject:

Slight adjustment to my final list. Lebron pushes out Westbrook. 1. Curry 2t. Davis/Harden 4. Paul 5. Lebron Curry passes majority of the "tests," including how many creative ways people must concoct to not vote for him. He also broke a season record in one of the major statistical categories. How often does that happen? Points and rebounds aren't reachable. Good luck reaching 14.5 assists. Steals and blocks have stood for 30 years, amazingly. _________________ Smrek 2, Nevitt 1, Barkley 0

nevitt_smrek
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Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2015 6:57 am Post subject:

CandyCanes wrote:

Lakers2015 wrote:

danzag wrote:

SHAQ/KOBE=#1 wrote:

Chris Broussard voted for Harden. What did he have to say about Curry? "He has Klay Thompson."

Yes, voters do penalize players for having good teammates.

This is (bleep). The same (bleep) who didn't voted for Kobe... guess what... when he didn't have a (bleep) teammate back in 06 and 07.

Wouldn't say that. Kobe did have Lamar who was basically a 15/10 player in his prime.

Other than that though...

Lamar was notorious for his inconsistency. Would be 25/15 one game and then 4 and 4 the next.

And that's my main criticism of Westbrook. One game: 15-31 shooting. Next: 6-25. His shot selection is very suspect. He feels the need to dominate a bit too much, even when Durant was around. It took the ball out of the hands out of the guy who should have had it more times (KD). Though not world beaters, guys like Waiters and Morrow should have been utilized better. Turnovers were another negative as well.

Russ' strongest quality is the rebounding.
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doughboy90650
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Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2015 7:05 am Post subject:

James, Russ and Davis should get some love but it's clearly a two man race Last edited by doughboy90650 on Sat Apr 18, 2015 7:15 am; edited 1 time in total

doughboy90650
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Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2015 7:14 am Post subject:

ribeye wrote:

Lakers2015 wrote:

danzag wrote:

SHAQ/KOBE=#1 wrote:

Chris Broussard voted for Harden. What did he have to say about Curry? "He has Klay Thompson."

Yes, voters do penalize players for having good teammates.

This is (bleep). The same (bleep) who didn't voted for Kobe... guess what... when he didn't have a (bleep) teammate back in 06 and 07.

Wouldn't say that. Kobe did have Lamar who was basically a 15/10 player in his prime.

Other than that though...

And there is just a bit of difference being a 7 seed winning 45 and 42 games, without another all star, versus a 2 seed winning 56, without another all star.

Add to this Harden's 16.44 W/S (leading the league) vs Kobe's 13.04/15.29 (4th/4th)--clearly a statistical advantage to Harden; or, if you will, Harden's 26.70 (4th) PER vs Kobe's 26.05 (5th) 27.97 (3rd)--about a statistical wash.

Compared to Dirk who beat Kobe in PER and W/S both seasons while his team won 60 and 67 games, without another all star both seasons, I don't see a great case made for Kobe.

good point with the stats. It sucks for Bryant because those were prime years where he was clearly the league's best player.

I can see why he would vote that way. The end results.

difference is one squad won their division in the tough Western Conference with 56 wins and finished as a two seed (Houston), the other in both years mention finished as a seven seed with one of those years being 42-40 (Lakers) in the same conference. Guys on seventh seeded squads in the modern NBA aren't getting the MVP. Been that way for decades.

nevitt_smrek
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Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2015 7:36 pm Post subject:

SHAQ/KOBE=#1 wrote:

Chris Broussard voted for Harden. What did he have to say about Curry? "He has Klay Thompson."

Yes, voters do penalize players for having good teammates.

So Curry would be a stronger candidate if Klay Thompson were hurt, which would result in his team finishing with a record that's much worse? That's a bit silly. Broussard is an individual voter, and they don't necessarily speak for everyone. There were a few Cooperstown voters that didn't vote for Greg Maddux, and the reasons were very strange.

Harden isn't a bad choice. He's not the best choice, not this year.
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nevitt_smrek
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Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2015 7:42 pm Post subject:

doughboy90650 wrote:

ribeye wrote:

Lakers2015 wrote:

danzag wrote:

SHAQ/KOBE=#1 wrote:

Chris Broussard voted for Harden. What did he have to say about Curry? "He has Klay Thompson."

Yes, voters do penalize players for having good teammates.

This is (bleep). The same (bleep) who didn't voted for Kobe... guess what... when he didn't have a (bleep) teammate back in 06 and 07.

Wouldn't say that. Kobe did have Lamar who was basically a 15/10 player in his prime.

Other than that though...

Kobe was certainly the best scorer in those years. Averaged a lot of points, but that was more due to increase in shot attempts rather than the quality of those shots or improvement in shooting ability.
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Aeneas Hunter
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Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2015 8:37 pm Post subject:

Listening to the comments from both the media and the players, it seems like the vote may be closer than I would have expected. Harden might even pull an upset. I get the impression that the players in particular respect Harden more than they do Curry (not that they disrespect Curry, to be sure).

Lakers2015
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Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2015 9:10 pm Post subject:

ribeye wrote:

Lakers2015 wrote:

danzag wrote:

SHAQ/KOBE=#1 wrote:

Chris Broussard voted for Harden. What did he have to say about Curry? "He has Klay Thompson."

Yes, voters do penalize players for having good teammates.

This is (bleep). The same (bleep) who didn't voted for Kobe... guess what... when he didn't have a (bleep) teammate back in 06 and 07.

Wouldn't say that. Kobe did have Lamar who was basically a 15/10 player in his prime.

Other than that though...

You sound like one of those stat whores on RealGm. Are you seriously saying Harden was better than a prime Kobe?

Dirk should never even be mentioned in the same breath as a prime Kobe.

Even with Howard missing so much time that Rockets team is still loads better than those Laker teams in 06 and 07. Just look at tonight. Harden was off most of the night and they still won pretty handily. Corey Brewer went off in the fourth quarter. Jason Terry is still a perimeter threat, Josh Smith is better than any player on those teams not named Lamar, they've got solid young pieces like Montejunas and Terrance Jones and Beverley before he got hurt.

What Harden has done is impressive, but that team is nowhere near as bad as those Lakers teams. A lot of the players on that team weren't even in the league anymore after they left the Lakers that tells you a lot right there.

Kobe absolutely deserved to win MVP that year and the award lost all credibility after he didn't win it.

Wilkes52
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Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2015 6:58 am Post subject:

Curry will win the award, but I covet Anthony Davis far more than any other guy. Davis was the best player in the league, so he's my MVP.

ILoveLA WeLoveIT
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Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2015 8:05 am Post subject:

Yeah, Steph will definitely win the award. Votes won't even be close. By the way, thoughts on Kevin Ding having Harden 4th on his MVP ballot?

danzag
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Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2015 8:18 am Post subject:

ILoveLA WeLoveIT wrote:

Yeah, Steph will definitely win the award. Votes won't even be close. By the way, thoughts on Kevin Ding having Harden 4th on his MVP ballot?

Kevin Ding knows his (bleep).

ribeye
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Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2015 10:05 am Post subject:

Lakers2015 wrote:

ribeye wrote:

Lakers2015 wrote:

danzag wrote:

SHAQ/KOBE=#1 wrote:

Chris Broussard voted for Harden. What did he have to say about Curry? "He has Klay Thompson."

Yes, voters do penalize players for having good teammates.

This is (bleep). The same (bleep) who didn't voted for Kobe... guess what... when he didn't have a (bleep) teammate back in 06 and 07.

Wouldn't say that. Kobe did have Lamar who was basically a 15/10 player in his prime.

Other than that though...

What the H is a stat whore?

What I said regarding the specific seasons of Dirk and Harden, was that compared to Kobe, their teams did better (Dirk's FAR better, averaging 20 wins more per season, though Harden's 12.5 better is still significant), even though they also did not have a supporting all star, and by PER or Win Share measures, Dirk out performed Kobe both seasons and Harden out performed Kobe by Win Shares both seasons and PER one of the two.

If Ortg and Drtg are used (though an even less precise measure from my perspective), both seasons of Dirk and Harden's season also were better both offensively and defensively.

If we go to RAPM (Regularized Adjusted Plus-Minus) (discontinued for after last season and replaced by RPM), Dirk out performed Kobe both years. We can't compare RAPM to RPM (used by ESPN for the last two seasons) (both from the same statistician), as even though they are similar, they are not identical, but Kobe was 11th both seasons in RAPM and Harden was 3rd this year in RPM but 1st in WAR.

We could then go to 82games (net production, +/-, Simple rating) and see Harden had a 15.5/11.6/14.2 to Kobe's (06/07) 15.9/12.7/14.8 and 14.3/7.6/12.4 and Dirk's (06/07) 13.1/8.5/11.6 and 17.1/12.4/15.7. By this measure, Kobe's 06 was better than both but his 07 was not, but this is one measure, and then we must go back to the team's success as well when judging, not to mention the other measures.

Again, overall, team success and stats both, I don't think complaining about Kobe's snub, particularly the 07 season (though I did my share contemporaneously) is fair. In 06, it was close between Dirk and Kobe, but somehow neither was so awarded.
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doughboy90650
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Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2015 1:13 pm Post subject:

Lakers2015 wrote:

ribeye wrote:

Lakers2015 wrote:

danzag wrote:

SHAQ/KOBE=#1 wrote:

Chris Broussard voted for Harden. What did he have to say about Curry? "He has Klay Thompson."

Yes, voters do penalize players for having good teammates.

This is (bleep). The same (bleep) who didn't voted for Kobe... guess what... when he didn't have a (bleep) teammate back in 06 and 07.

Wouldn't say that. Kobe did have Lamar who was basically a 15/10 player in his prime.

Other than that though...

2006 will always be one of those years that was out of the norm. You had two 60 win squads but both didn't have a player in the MVP running (Spurs and Pistons), primarily because both squads had player's stats spread across the board. True Definition of teams. Nash's 2006 stats were better than his 2005 stats. They probably looked at his 19/10 line while going 50/40/90 and capturing the Pacific Division.

Hell, Bean finished second in first place votes and finished fourth. I think if the Lakers had been in the mix, hanging around 52 wins, he probably would have snatched it.

activeverb
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Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2015 7:53 am Post subject:

doughboy90650 wrote:

ribeye wrote:

Lakers2015 wrote:

danzag wrote:

SHAQ/KOBE=#1 wrote:

Chris Broussard voted for Harden. What did he have to say about Curry? "He has Klay Thompson."

Yes, voters do penalize players for having good teammates.

This is (bleep). The same (bleep) who didn't voted for Kobe... guess what... when he didn't have a (bleep) teammate back in 06 and 07.

Wouldn't say that. Kobe did have Lamar who was basically a 15/10 player in his prime.

Other than that though...

I think you can make a great case for Kobe that year -- but that depends on how impressed you are by his 50-point-a-game scoring streak and 81-point game. The scoring outbursts are what made his season special, not so much getting a weak team into the playoffs or the other stats.

Clearly many voters were impressed by him, and 22 put him first on his ballot. Just as clearly, the majority of voters didn't feel his team won enough games to be an MVP. Whether you agree with this or not, it's been a consistent view of the voters that a player's team has to win at least 54-55 games to be a viable MVP.

I can understand why people, especially his fans, feel cheated. I can also understand why he didn't win. The voters were not really satisfied with any of the candidates that year (team and personal success didn't match up that year among the 5 candidates, and so Nash won the scrum).

Personally, I probably would have voted for Kobe that year if I had a vote, but depending on how you weigh team-personal success I think you can make an equally valid case for Lebron, Dirk, and Nash as MVPs that year.

Axshun
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Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 6:09 pm Post subject:

MVP should involve the capability of playing both ends decently or at least intensity in the same fashion at both ends. End of story... Harden shows no capability on the defensive. Sheesh, amazing the chants that rain down from Houston. Curry, I havent watched enough so my reservations are implicit. But Harden? Shows nothing but offense and the damn flops lol. Would rather have Westbrook win it.

Telleris
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Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 12:43 am Post subject:

Axshun wrote:

MVP should involve the capability of playing both ends decently or at least intensity in the same fashion at both ends. End of story...

Harden shows no capability on the defensive. Sheesh, amazing the chants that rain down from Houston.

Curry, I havent watched enough so my reservations are implicit.

But Harden? Shows nothing but offense and the damn flops lol.

Would rather have Westbrook win it.

Decent is probably the best way to describe Harden's defense this year, Curry too for the most part

Good or great? nah, bad or terrible? nope, decent sounds right

Westbrook isn't a good defender though, active yes, but no discipline at all and routinely kills his team d with it.
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Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 8:58 am Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:

I think it's crazy how Anthony Davis is about to have a Top 10-12 PER season in NBA history and perhaps lead an otherwise bad team to the playoffs in the West, yet he isn't even in this conversation.

It isn't unusual for players from 8th seeded teams not in the conversation.
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activeverb
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Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 9:00 am Post subject:

Axshun wrote:

MVP should involve the capability of playing both ends decently or at least intensity in the same fashion at both ends. End of story...

MVP has historically been an award primarily, if not exclusively, for offensive performance. That's why they have Defensive Player of the Year but not Offensive Player of the Year.

venturalakersfan
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Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 9:05 am Post subject:

Axshun wrote:

Harden defended better than Westbrook this season.
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USCandLakers
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Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 9:13 am Post subject:

Lakers2015 wrote:

ribeye wrote:

Lakers2015 wrote:

danzag wrote:

SHAQ/KOBE=#1 wrote:

Chris Broussard voted for Harden. What did he have to say about Curry? "He has Klay Thompson."

Yes, voters do penalize players for having good teammates.

This is (bleep). The same (bleep) who didn't voted for Kobe... guess what... when he didn't have a (bleep) teammate back in 06 and 07.

Wouldn't say that. Kobe did have Lamar who was basically a 15/10 player in his prime.

Other than that though...

This is precisely why I ignore the "advanced stat" people. They ignore what they see on the actual court of play in favor of looking at numbers on a piece of paper. Like you said, neither Harden nor Dirk should be mentioned in the same breaths as Kobe, and any kind of "metric" that shows that Harden in 2015 is anywhere close to Kobe in 2006 proves without a shadow of a doubt how useless those stats are. If your numbers are saying that, then throw them, along with your whole system and mentality out the window. There's no credibility in them, and you continue to prove that when you post those numbers. It's like you're hurting your own cause.
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ribeye
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Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 9:22 am Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:

Axshun wrote:

Harden defended better than Westbrook this season.

Defensive Real +/-:

Harden: .04
Westbrook: -.72

DRtg:
Harden: 103
Westbrook: 103

Defensive WS/48:

Harden: .068
Westbrook: .067

Defensive Box +/-:

Harden: 1.0
Westbrook: 2.2

Opponent Production (82games):

Harden: 13.4
Westbrook: 15.1
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