Why is Mudiay so high on mock draft boards?
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kikanga
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2015 7:38 am    Post subject:

http://www.denverpost.com/nuggets/ci_28883783/emmanuel-mudiay-gets-keys-run-nuggets-offense-rookie
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2015 8:30 pm    Post subject:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUEwK9uRMqU
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2015 1:03 am    Post subject:

https://youtu.be/xo9vdY4JVVg
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2015 6:54 pm    Post subject:

https://streamable.com/ajg0
https://streamable.com/4kxg
https://streamable.com/j483
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2015 8:24 pm    Post subject:

I don't see the point of all of those links.

The Lakers worked out Mudiay and still chose Russell over him.

http://www.nba.com/lakers/video/150606DraftWorkoutsMudiay

https://twitter.com/josep_236/status/608365614189682689

Not hating. Sticking to the facts.

By all means, give him all of the credit for actually developing a mid-range jumper in a short amount of time. But, I can't exactly blame the Laker FO or the opinions of a bunch of posters on LG who felt he was easily lottery, but did not show any kind of range during his workouts, especially the Laker workout.
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Omar Little
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2015 8:53 pm    Post subject:

I don't think it was the shot mike. I think they didn't feel he had upper shelf pg instincts.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2015 9:01 pm    Post subject:

24 wrote:
I don't think it was the shot mike. I think they didn't feel he had upper shelf pg instincts.


I remember that too; the comment about struggling with basic offensive concepts.

I almost think the Lakers had to draft between Russell or Okafor out of PR. Could you imagine the outrage if the Lakers drafted Mudiay with a sub-par jumpshot and average hoop IQ?

This isn't Magic Johnson over Sidney Moncrief or Kobe Bryant over anyone else.

At least an improved jumpshot would make me think about Mudiay for Top 5. You know he's a big PG with ball-handling and some passing ability. A jump shot during workouts would have taken him FAR.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2015 9:23 pm    Post subject:

Mudiay has performed better than Russell in SL and preseason.
Not hating. Sticking to facts.

That's why he was high on mock draft boards (OP's question).
And that's why I post the links.
Also, because nobody checks the NBA Draft section, and it seems like an appropriate place to post links about a non-laker.

Do you guys have a link to where it was written Mudiay lacked bball IQ and understanding of offensive concepts?
Sounds interesting. I'd love to read it.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2015 9:28 pm    Post subject:

Quote:

Also. Do you guys have a link to where we though Mudiay lack bball IQ and understanding of offensive principles?

I have to backdate to past May/June.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2015 9:36 pm    Post subject:

^No worries if you can't find it.

I like that Mudiay went overseas to play instead of going to the NCAA.
The NCAA should pay their athletes. And it's a shame Mudiay's draft stock fell when he went to China.
I hope top prospects aren't discouraged, and continue to go overseas before entering the league.
The NCAA should pay their athletes.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2015 9:37 pm    Post subject:

Quote:

Mudiay has performed better than Russell in SL and preseason.


See, I think that's a perspective thing.

Russell's passing is like Mudiay's scoring.

Russell's lack of offensive aggressiveness is like Mudiay's turnovers.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2015 10:07 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
Quote:

Mudiay has performed better than Russell in SL and preseason.


See, I think that's a perspective thing.

Russell's passing is like Mudiay's scoring.

Russell's lack of offensive aggressiveness is like Mudiay's turnovers.


These are their preseason breakdowns

Mudiay DLO

MIN 29.1 15.3
FGM 5.4 1.6
FGA 14.6 4.8
FG% 37.0 33.3
3PM 1.2 0.8
3PA 3.2 2.2
3P% 37.5 36.4
FTM 3.0 1.0
FTA 4.0 1.4
FT% 75.0 71.4
OREB 0.4 0.8
DREB 2.6 2.0
REB 3.0 2.8
AST 5.4 3.8
TOV 4.8 1.0
STL 1.0 0.4
BLK 0.4 0.0
PF 2.2 1.0
PTS 15.0 5.0
+/- 0.0 2.8

I think it's worth noting Mudiay has done this playing against CP3, Curry, Westbrook. The 3 top PGs in the league.

All the talk about his shooting. And he's been a more accurate shooter than Russell.
Russell has rebounded and assisted at a faster per minute rate. So you were right about that. But I'm not sure those stats would double if his minutes did as well.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2015 4:02 pm    Post subject:

Quote:

All the talk about his shooting


.. was fair criticism. Didn't show it in workouts. Didn't fix it until after the draft. Can't fault anyone. Some people, it takes one summer (Aaron Gordon) or it takes years (Randle is barely showing signs).

I look at the stat break down and see a 5% FG difference, but a near 4:1 A/TO ratio, which is outstanding for Russell.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2015 4:23 pm    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
Mudiay has performed better than Russell in SL and preseason.
Not hating. Sticking to facts.

That's why he was high on mock draft boards (OP's question).
And that's why I post the links.
Also, because nobody checks the NBA Draft section, and it seems like an appropriate place to post links about a non-laker.

Do you guys have a link to where it was written Mudiay lacked bball IQ and understanding of offensive concepts?
Sounds interesting. I'd love to read it.


I would say that Mudiay has simply used more minutes and possessions. I wouldn't exactly say a guy shooting 37% on high volume is a better scorer (certainly not better shot selection) simply because he's jacking up a ton of shots, and far fewer assists per minute at a nearly 1 to 1 assist to TO rate (versus almost four to one).

One guy is just being handed the ball and allowed to do what he likes, with very inefficient results (and not much demonstration of playmaking IQ), while the other is constrained by system, shooting much less (while also more poorly), and generally running a measurably better attack.

Note Russell's 109 ORating vs Mudiay's 84.

The temptation is to see one guy with raw numbers, and the other guy with few, and ignore that neither is hitting their shots well, but one is better at the other stuff.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2015 4:35 pm    Post subject:

I would also venture to say that if you switched the two guys, Russell would have the large raw numbers (with much bigger assist and assist/TO ratio), and Mudiay would be struggling in LA. A lot of it is just environment and expectation.

The other thing is I predict that Mudiay is much closer to his in season shooting percentages than Russell is, and Russell's are skewed by incredibly small number of shots.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2015 4:39 pm    Post subject:

24 wrote:
I would also venture to say that if you switched the two guys, Russell would have the large raw numbers (with much bigger assist and assist/TO ratio), and Mudiay would be struggling in LA. A lot of it is just environment and expectation.

The other thing is I predict that Mudiay is much closer to his in season shooting percentages than Russell is, and Russell's are skewed by incredibly small number of shots.


I agree on environment. Even if I like Mudiay's size and athleticism much more than Russell's, I did come across the article saying how he preferred more of a run and gun system.

I'd like to think that Russell would have some eye-popping numbers if given the high number of PnR situations and transition opportunities. Not much different from OSU.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2015 5:57 pm    Post subject:

24 wrote:
kikanga wrote:
Mudiay has performed better than Russell in SL and preseason.
Not hating. Sticking to facts.

That's why he was high on mock draft boards (OP's question).
And that's why I post the links.
Also, because nobody checks the NBA Draft section, and it seems like an appropriate place to post links about a non-laker.

Do you guys have a link to where it was written Mudiay lacked bball IQ and understanding of offensive concepts?
Sounds interesting. I'd love to read it.


I would say that Mudiay has simply used more minutes and possessions. I wouldn't exactly say a guy shooting 37% on high volume is a better scorer (certainly not better shot selection) simply because he's jacking up a ton of shots, and far fewer assists per minute at a nearly 1 to 1 assist to TO rate (versus almost four to one).

One guy is just being handed the ball and allowed to do what he likes, with very inefficient results (and not much demonstration of playmaking IQ), while the other is constrained by system, shooting much less (while also more poorly), and generally running a measurably better attack.

Note Russell's 109 ORating vs Mudiay's 84.

The temptation is to see one guy with raw numbers, and the other guy with few, and ignore that neither is hitting their shots well, but one is better at the other stuff.


Russell is playing 1/2 as many minutes per game as Mudiay with far less usage.
Mudiay has played against the 3 best PG's in the league.
Russell has stat padded his much smaller sample with Maccabi.
You saw the post I put in the lounge about how ORTG is skewed when usage rates aren't comparable.
Mudiay is shooting better than Russell from every part of the field.
And he's drawing FTs at a faster rate (which shouldn't be the case with twice as many minutes, he should be getting fatigued).
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2015 6:03 pm    Post subject:

I do agree his team's system is built around him.
And the offensive system here in LA isn't built around DLO.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2015 7:45 pm    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
24 wrote:
kikanga wrote:
Mudiay has performed better than Russell in SL and preseason.
Not hating. Sticking to facts.

That's why he was high on mock draft boards (OP's question).
And that's why I post the links.
Also, because nobody checks the NBA Draft section, and it seems like an appropriate place to post links about a non-laker.

Do you guys have a link to where it was written Mudiay lacked bball IQ and understanding of offensive concepts?
Sounds interesting. I'd love to read it.


I would say that Mudiay has simply used more minutes and possessions. I wouldn't exactly say a guy shooting 37% on high volume is a better scorer (certainly not better shot selection) simply because he's jacking up a ton of shots, and far fewer assists per minute at a nearly 1 to 1 assist to TO rate (versus almost four to one).

One guy is just being handed the ball and allowed to do what he likes, with very inefficient results (and not much demonstration of playmaking IQ), while the other is constrained by system, shooting much less (while also more poorly), and generally running a measurably better attack.

Note Russell's 109 ORating vs Mudiay's 84.

The temptation is to see one guy with raw numbers, and the other guy with few, and ignore that neither is hitting their shots well, but one is better at the other stuff.


Russell is playing 1/2 as many minutes per game as Mudiay with far less usage.
Mudiay has played against the 3 best PG's in the league.
Russell has stat padded his much smaller sample with Maccabi.
You saw the post I put in the lounge about how ORTG is skewed when usage rates aren't comparable.
Mudiay is shooting better than Russell from every part of the field.
And he's drawing FTs at a faster rate (which shouldn't be the case with twice as many minutes, he should be getting fatigued).

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2015 12:16 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
Emmanuel Mudiay has the best vision of a point guard coming out of the draft in the last few years. He has a lot of passing tools others donít have. The big deal for him will be to play without trying to prove he can shoot. His shot isnít broken, but right now itís his biggest weakness.


http://www.si.com/nba/2015/10/20/nba-scouts-preview-warriors-spurs-knicks-lakers-cavaliers-rockets
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2015 1:56 am    Post subject:

Happy for Mudiay. But he needs to clean up the 11 turnovers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6we4Ehp60E
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2015 8:13 am    Post subject:

http://blogs.denverpost.com/nuggets/2015/10/30/emmanuel-mudiay-quickly-putting-bad-shooter-narrative-to-rest/13395/
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2015 5:55 am    Post subject:

Emmanuel Mudiay

MPG 30.4
FG% 31.2
3P% 27.9
FT% 64.7
PPG 12.0
REB 4.2
AST 6.2
TO 4.7
BLK 0.9
STL 1.1

Of course he will continue to develop but I've watched a handful of his games and don't know what people see in him. He resembles the typical "potential" guy that never really puts it all together. He passes the ball A LOT, without necessarily looking to create plays. Just simple passes from side to side and he gets a couple assists that way. I think he had people fooled with his hot shooting early on and what he's been doing lately is more in line with his capabilities. Concerning that he can go 6 of 18 and actually raise his percentages. He's not been finishing very well at the rim and he really doesn't use his athleticism much which was overrated to begin with. But he's just not a guy that flies thru the air finishing in traffic or that will break you down off the dribble with a double crossover from the top of the key. And since heís not that guy it's pivotal that he be able to shoot well and protect the ball which he seems far behind the curve at.

Maybe I'm just not looking hard enough but I really don't see it with him.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 10:52 pm    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
http://blogs.denverpost.com/nuggets/2015/10/30/emmanuel-mudiay-quickly-putting-bad-shooter-narrative-to-rest/13395/


Or not.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2015 8:19 pm    Post subject:

He's a horrendous shooter, but can defend and has above average athleticism. One thing that's an asset in the NBA if you're a PG is if you can get past your man and into the middle of the court around the FT line. For whatever reason, many teams just scramble in that scenario.

You look at someone like Rondo even, he wasn't ever a good scorer or shooter, but he was able to just do that and be so effective as a passer.

I've never been a big Rondo fan and I'm not a big fan of Mudiay, but I think he has potential to be a good player in the league. Especially on D, if he decides to commit there, he can be a rare player who is a 2-way PG. Very, very few 2-way PG's in the league. Mostly 1-way guys who thrive on O, don't do much on D.
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