Joined: 29 Aug 2004 Posts: 11197 Location: The Other Perspective
Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2015 4:19 am Post subject:
Could D'angelo Russell become what Curry has become? _________________ "Chick lived and breathed Lakers basketball…but he was also fair and objective and called every game the way it was played."
-from Chick: His Unpublished Memoirs and the Memories of Those Who Knew Him
Steph is the best shooter in NBA history. He has probably the quickest release I've seen and is still deadly with his accuracy. Dell Curry as your dad doesn't hurt.
Everything about Curry's game is built upon his pull up jump shot, he'd be a very average player without it.
His handles are above average, but without that freakish shot, they're not good enough to create good shots consistently, he doesn't have the ball on a string, vary the height like some of the real special ball handlers (something kawhi exploited to hell and back), but then jimmer's handles are tiers behind. Curry is also despite his slender frame, tallish for a one guard, whereas Jimmer is short and not really a pg anyway (which makes him a midget 2 guard).
Main problem with being short and not really having offense running skills is there are only 2 guys (not in perpetual inactive states) in the whole nba over 6'3 who can run an offense, so if you're short and you can't, your job opportunities are low and the job requirements will include defense which he also doesn't have _________________ I believe everything the media tells me except for anything for which I have direct personal knowledge, which they always get wrong
Joined: 18 Apr 2004 Posts: 6339 Location: Virginia
Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2015 3:27 am Post subject:
Cutheon wrote:
kobeandgary wrote:
i feel if you gave ferdette curry type touches and a curry type green light he would get you curry type scoring.
Particularly if it came with Curry's handling, speed, quickness, release, and court vision
Jimmer has really nice handles and a nice first step, he showed all of it in college, not to mention he is a pull up off the dribble shooter just like curry, he is not a catch and shoot guy.
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2015 7:10 am Post subject:
kobeandgary wrote:
Cutheon wrote:
kobeandgary wrote:
i feel if you gave ferdette curry type touches and a curry type green light he would get you curry type scoring.
Particularly if it came with Curry's handling, speed, quickness, release, and court vision
Jimmer has really nice handles and a nice first step, he showed all of it in college, not to mention he is a pull up off the dribble shooter just like curry, he is not a catch and shoot guy.
Disagree.
I think he's happiest as a catch-and-shoot guy as well as a pull up off the dribble.
Attacking the rim? Not his best skill. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
Joined: 10 Jul 2009 Posts: 12161 Location: Bay Area
Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2015 7:48 am Post subject:
kobeandgary wrote:
Cutheon wrote:
kobeandgary wrote:
i feel if you gave ferdette curry type touches and a curry type green light he would get you curry type scoring.
Particularly if it came with Curry's handling, speed, quickness, release, and court vision
Jimmer has really nice handles and a nice first step, he showed all of it in college, not to mention he is a pull up off the dribble shooter just like curry, he is not a catch and shoot guy.
You're right. That's why we haven't seen any of it in the NBA. He is actually one of the most skilled players in the league - he just doesn't want to show off and hurt the other players feelings.
Everything about Curry's game is built upon his pull up jump shot, he'd be a very average player without it.
His handles are above average, but without that freakish shot, they're not good enough to create good shots consistently, he doesn't have the ball on a string, vary the height like some of the real special ball handlers (something kawhi exploited to hell and back), but then jimmer's handles are tiers behind. Curry is also despite his slender frame, tallish for a one guard, whereas Jimmer is short and not really a pg anyway (which makes him a midget 2 guard).
Main problem with being short and not really having offense running skills is there are only 2 guys (not in perpetual inactive states) in the whole nba over 6'3 who can run an offense, so if you're short and you can't, your job opportunities are low and the job requirements will include defense which he also doesn't have
I'm sure your opinion has nothing to do with the MVP race.
And Curry's handles are "above average" in the same way that Salma Hayek circa 1995 was somewhat attractive.
I felt like they had pretty similar college careers. Both big time gunners on a small conference team. What happened to Jimmer? From the outside their college game seemed pretty similar to me.
Fredette didn't have Curry's quickness and never developed his ball-handling to the advanced level Curry has.
Hand-eye coordination runs in that family and it took over 5 years to get Curry to this point. He didn't even learn how to play PG at the NCAA level until his last season. He played SG the rest of the time.
Oh, and Stephen has the quicker release.
That's how important ball-handling is.
I'm surprised that no one mentioned Footwork as the reason.
Ball handling is fine and dandy but without the footwork you can't make use of the ball handling.
It's the reason why Clyde dribbling with his right hand his entire career didn’t have to have pretty dribbling ability but still got to the basket. Don’t say it’s because he was athletic. There's a guy named Wes on our team that’s super athletic and can barely get to the rim off the bounce. Why is that? Who had better handles Drex or Wes? I say neither..Lol. But Drex got to the basket due to his superior footwork.
Curry's Footwork was shown when he was in college. I knew then he was going to be a star in the nba. I also knew to have that kind of footwork at that young age...His dad must have had him playing with/against NBA players(ex nba guys, and perhaps current nba guys.)
IF you ever want to find out why some guy at the local playground courts with crazy handles can’t make the NBA. It’s his lack of footwork. Shaking guys side to side is one thing. Shaking a guy to create space (nick young) is another thing. But when you can shake a guy and go towards the basket, it can't be guarded. Most will say but curry shoots a lot of jumpers. Yes he does. Why is he so open? Because, the defender is afraid to crowd him for fear he will beat them off the dribble and make his team's defense collapse in the paint for wide open shooters or score himself.
Last but not least. It's not just his ability to do all sorts of insane ball handling tricks. It's his IQ to know when to do which move depending on how he's guarded. Not many guys at any level can do this that well. CP3 is one of the great ones at this. You can see these type of guards just completely dismantling their defender. Defender does this, they do that. They always know the perfect counter ball handling technique for the situation. It's amazing to watch to be honest.
Because unlike Steph Curry, Jimmer's dad didn't have the sweetest jump shot in all of basketball... _________________ "Now, if life is coffee, then the jobs, money & position in society are the cups. They are just tools to hold & contain life, but the quality of life doesn't change. Sometimes, by concentrating only on the cup, we fail to enjoy the coffee in it."
Joined: 19 Apr 2003 Posts: 22841 Location: La Jolla, San Diego
Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2015 2:44 am Post subject:
hoopla wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
Inverse wrote:
I felt like they had pretty similar college careers. Both big time gunners on a small conference team. What happened to Jimmer? From the outside their college game seemed pretty similar to me.
Fredette didn't have Curry's quickness and never developed his ball-handling to the advanced level Curry has.
Hand-eye coordination runs in that family and it took over 5 years to get Curry to this point. He didn't even learn how to play PG at the NCAA level until his last season. He played SG the rest of the time.
Oh, and Stephen has the quicker release.
That's how important ball-handling is.
I'm surprised that no one mentioned Footwork as the reason.
Ball handling is fine and dandy but without the footwork you can't make use of the ball handling.
It's the reason why Clyde dribbling with his right hand his entire career didn’t have to have pretty dribbling ability but still got to the basket. Don’t say it’s because he was athletic. There's a guy named Wes on our team that’s super athletic and can barely get to the rim off the bounce. Why is that? Who had better handles Drex or Wes? I say neither..Lol. But Drex got to the basket due to his superior footwork.
Curry's Footwork was shown when he was in college. I knew then he was going to be a star in the nba. I also knew to have that kind of footwork at that young age...His dad must have had him playing with/against NBA players(ex nba guys, and perhaps current nba guys.)
IF you ever want to find out why some guy at the local playground courts with crazy handles can’t make the NBA. It’s his lack of footwork. Shaking guys side to side is one thing. Shaking a guy to create space (nick young) is another thing. But when you can shake a guy and go towards the basket, it can't be guarded. Most will say but curry shoots a lot of jumpers. Yes he does. Why is he so open? Because, the defender is afraid to crowd him for fear he will beat them off the dribble and make his team's defense collapse in the paint for wide open shooters or score himself.
Last but not least. It's not just his ability to do all sorts of insane ball handling tricks. It's his IQ to know when to do which move depending on how he's guarded. Not many guys at any level can do this that well. CP3 is one of the great ones at this. You can see these type of guards just completely dismantling their defender. Defender does this, they do that. They always know the perfect counter ball handling technique for the situation. It's amazing to watch to be honest.
I don't think "footwork" is the right way to describe what you're trying to say. Great ball handling skills and superior ambidexterity is what Curry has. When you can go left or right easily, combined with the fact that they always have to respect or bite on your jumper, then the world opens up for you. Footwork can be clearly defined down in the blocks. How a player efficiently maximizes his pivot foot. That's generally what people talk about when discussing footwork. And the master of this is of course Hakeem the Dream. Perimeter players do not do pivot work from the 3 point line other than when they initially catch the ball and the dribble hasn't been used. They just let the ball bounce and start dancing. I don't know if you can defined it as footwork when you can shake a guy as well as go towards the hoop. I would just call it superior shaking. LOL! Getting to the hoop is all about having that first step on your man, and Clyde had one of the more explosive first steps. Clyde was a better shooter than Wes, and so people constantly were on their feet to challenge, that allows him to put it on the floor and go. If you are to define the ability to get to the rim as having good footwork, then I would argue the opposite for Clyde, that he did not have good footwork since he predominantly when to one side of the court. Superior footwork by your own definition would eliminate Clyde I would think. That's just not footwork, that's explosion. And c'mon, don't compare Wes to Clyde. Drexler can go left if he needed to, just not as good as MJ or Kobe, and that's why he ranks below them.
But I agree with the latter part of you post, which I bolded. Hand, eye coordination, feet, brain, IQ, hip movement.. Heck, it's not footwork. It's the whole mind and body working.
Here's a little reminder why you don't mention Wes and Clyde in the same sentence.
Everything about Curry's game is built upon his pull up jump shot, he'd be a very average player without it.
His handles are above average, but without that freakish shot, they're not good enough to create good shots consistently, he doesn't have the ball on a string, vary the height like some of the real special ball handlers (something kawhi exploited to hell and back), but then jimmer's handles are tiers behind. Curry is also despite his slender frame, tallish for a one guard, whereas Jimmer is short and not really a pg anyway (which makes him a midget 2 guard).
Main problem with being short and not really having offense running skills is there are only 2 guys (not in perpetual inactive states) in the whole nba over 6'3 who can run an offense, so if you're short and you can't, your job opportunities are low and the job requirements will include defense which he also doesn't have
i also notice although Curry is an excellent shooter, he's not a very good spot up shooter. almost all of his threes are coming from screens where he kind of floats while shooting them and he's very good at that. once he has his feet set, he doesn't shoot with the same accuracy for whatever reason. this explains why he was very average during 3 point contest of all star weekend.
Joined: 18 Apr 2004 Posts: 6339 Location: Virginia
Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 12:48 am Post subject:
Mike@LG wrote:
kobeandgary wrote:
Cutheon wrote:
kobeandgary wrote:
i feel if you gave ferdette curry type touches and a curry type green light he would get you curry type scoring.
Particularly if it came with Curry's handling, speed, quickness, release, and court vision
Jimmer has really nice handles and a nice first step, he showed all of it in college, not to mention he is a pull up off the dribble shooter just like curry, he is not a catch and shoot guy.
Disagree.
I think he's happiest as a catch-and-shoot guy as well as a pull up off the dribble.
Attacking the rim? Not his best skill.
attacking the rim isn't Steph's best skill either.
I felt like they had pretty similar college careers. Both big time gunners on a small conference team. What happened to Jimmer? From the outside their college game seemed pretty similar to me.
Fredette didn't have Curry's quickness and never developed his ball-handling to the advanced level Curry has.
Hand-eye coordination runs in that family and it took over 5 years to get Curry to this point. He didn't even learn how to play PG at the NCAA level until his last season. He played SG the rest of the time.
Oh, and Stephen has the quicker release.
That's how important ball-handling is.
I'm surprised that no one mentioned Footwork as the reason.
Ball handling is fine and dandy but without the footwork you can't make use of the ball handling.
It's the reason why Clyde dribbling with his right hand his entire career didn’t have to have pretty dribbling ability but still got to the basket. Don’t say it’s because he was athletic. There's a guy named Wes on our team that’s super athletic and can barely get to the rim off the bounce. Why is that? Who had better handles Drex or Wes? I say neither..Lol. But Drex got to the basket due to his superior footwork.
Curry's Footwork was shown when he was in college. I knew then he was going to be a star in the nba. I also knew to have that kind of footwork at that young age...His dad must have had him playing with/against NBA players(ex nba guys, and perhaps current nba guys.)
IF you ever want to find out why some guy at the local playground courts with crazy handles can’t make the NBA. It’s his lack of footwork. Shaking guys side to side is one thing. Shaking a guy to create space (nick young) is another thing. But when you can shake a guy and go towards the basket, it can't be guarded. Most will say but curry shoots a lot of jumpers. Yes he does. Why is he so open? Because, the defender is afraid to crowd him for fear he will beat them off the dribble and make his team's defense collapse in the paint for wide open shooters or score himself.
Last but not least. It's not just his ability to do all sorts of insane ball handling tricks. It's his IQ to know when to do which move depending on how he's guarded. Not many guys at any level can do this that well. CP3 is one of the great ones at this. You can see these type of guards just completely dismantling their defender. Defender does this, they do that. They always know the perfect counter ball handling technique for the situation. It's amazing to watch to be honest.
I don't think "footwork" is the right way to describe what you're trying to say. Great ball handling skills and superior ambidexterity is what Curry has. When you can go left or right easily, combined with the fact that they always have to respect or bite on your jumper, then the world opens up for you. Footwork can be clearly defined down in the blocks. How a player efficiently maximizes his pivot foot. That's generally what people talk about when discussing footwork. And the master of this is of course Hakeem the Dream. Perimeter players do not do pivot work from the 3 point line other than when they initially catch the ball and the dribble hasn't been used. They just let the ball bounce and start dancing. I don't know if you can defined it as footwork when you can shake a guy as well as go towards the hoop. I would just call it superior shaking. LOL! Getting to the hoop is all about having that first step on your man, and Clyde had one of the more explosive first steps. Clyde was a better shooter than Wes, and so people constantly were on their feet to challenge, that allows him to put it on the floor and go. If you are to define the ability to get to the rim as having good footwork, then I would argue the opposite for Clyde, that he did not have good footwork since he predominantly when to one side of the court. Superior footwork by your own definition would eliminate Clyde I would think. That's just not footwork, that's explosion. And c'mon, don't compare Wes to Clyde. Drexler can go left if he needed to, just not as good as MJ or Kobe, and that's why he ranks below them.
But I agree with the latter part of you post, which I bolded. Hand, eye coordination, feet, brain, IQ, hip movement.. Heck, it's not footwork. It's the whole mind and body working.
Here's a little reminder why you don't mention Wes and Clyde in the same sentence.
i know the difference in footwork in the post and footwork when you handle the ball.
we're talking about a ball handler that has impeccable footwork. have you ever seen ginobili in his prime? Footwork. Not just ball handling. You need to know where to plant your feet at different points in your dribble to maximize your dribbling ability. This is why most guys can dribble side to side but can't go to the hole with the same fancy moves. In addition for great ball handlers that also are great shooters. they need great footwork to get their shots off.
^^watch that separation...footwork does this. if he doesnt know to plant that front foot that far out, he would not get that much space on the guy. some guys naturally take choppy steps. if he did this. it wouldnt work as well for steph.
and finally THIS LINK. explains everything about footwork for everyone in basketball(all positions). very good read
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 7:40 pm Post subject:
kobeandgary wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
kobeandgary wrote:
Cutheon wrote:
kobeandgary wrote:
i feel if you gave ferdette curry type touches and a curry type green light he would get you curry type scoring.
Particularly if it came with Curry's handling, speed, quickness, release, and court vision
Jimmer has really nice handles and a nice first step, he showed all of it in college, not to mention he is a pull up off the dribble shooter just like curry, he is not a catch and shoot guy.
Disagree.
I think he's happiest as a catch-and-shoot guy as well as a pull up off the dribble.
Attacking the rim? Not his best skill.
attacking the rim isn't Steph's best skill either.
Until he learned how to set it up after his jumpshot. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
'Why couldn't Jimmer Fredette become the likely MVP?'
The answers kind of flow naturally from there.
And tonight really solidified to me why he is MVP bar none. The way he carried GS down 20 to OT and winning is Kobesque. _________________ “God knew they couldn’t be on this Earth without each other. He had to bring them home to have them together.” – Vanessa Bryant
Steph Curry is absolutely sensational, what a fantastic player that guy is.
He is MVP this season, I had been leaning towards Westbrook, but Curry has his team at the top of the league and is
the greatest shooter period in NBA history.
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Drexler can go left if he needed to, just not as good as MJ or Kobe, and that's why he ranks below them.
