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K0BEE 2.0
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 Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 3:12 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | It doesn't matter, things will still be on the upswing. |
And you still have the Lakers missing the POs next season |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 3:12 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, I don't see them making the playoffs
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mbright
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| Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 3:13 pm Post subject: Re: A Suddenly Somewhat Promising Future. |
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| 22 wrote: | | mbright wrote: | | Lakers2015 wrote: | Everyone seems to think the future of the Lakers is so bleak and dark, but really that couldn't be further from the truth.
That's not to say I see us being a championship team in two years because as much of an optimist as I am I wouldn't anticipate the return to glory being that quickly.
Keeping the pick is huge. That goes without saying. You're talking about being up to conceivably have three young players to build around. Basically three lottery picks. Yes we know Clarkson was a second rounder, but he sure as hell hasn't played like one. He should finish at least top 3 in the voting for rookie of the year or there should be an investigation.
I'm not trying to anoint the kid because he is just a rookie after all, but being a Lakers fan as long as I have as a lot of you have when was the last time we had a young, electric, athletic player at the point guard position like Clarkson? It has been quite some time. Of course there are things he needs to work on.
Stu highlighted last night sometimes he dribbles too high in the midst of traffic and that can lead to turnovers. His defense is subpar at best, but so is Andrew Wiggins who was seen as somebody who is gonna be a lockdown defender because of his premier athletic ability and defensive instincts. Point being most expect him to improve so there's no reason Clarkson can't improve as well on the defensive end.
Now Julius Randle. Suffered a freak, terrible injury on opening night. All signs however point to him coming back at 100 percent. I'm no doctor, but it didn't look nearly as bad as Paul George's injury in July and he's already back and playing at a high level. Yes I realize Randle has yet to even really play in the NBA. All we've basically seen is him in the pre-season and Summer League and now awhole lot can be put into that. However the skill set is evident. Julius isn't the tallest guy, but he is supremely skilled for a big man. The ability to post, ball handling skills, combined with his physicality and his athleticism and ability to beat his man off the dribble is something very rare. Much like Clarkson he needs to improve defensively and finishing with his right hand because in the NBA teams will force him away from his strong end. He seems to be as dedicated and detrimened as any young player coming into this league. You see his interviews and he always talks about his love for the game of basketball, wanting to get back, getting better and better and I have no doubt he will.
Now to the pick. The Lakers deserve to be critiqued for not providing better protection to the pick however think back to the trade did anyone actually think we'd be where we're? In regards to being in the draft lottery twice in a row. Nobody anticipated Nash's career ending in the manner in which it did or Kobe suffering an assortment of season ending injuries that have severely hampered him. Again doesn't excuse not protecting the pick better, but you can see why they were so confident they weren't gonna lose that pick. Still and all we have over an 80 percent chance of keeping it and if we do it gives us three building blocks. That's not a bleak future. That's a potentially bright and very bright future. |
In comparison, PHI has
A better playing rookie than JC in Noel.
A better return-from-injury rookie than Randle in Embbid.
A likely higher pick this year.
More cap.
And our pick next year (even if we kept it this year)
Do you think PHI has a promising future?
I think it's quite obvious that our future looks bleak for now. We ONLY have a possibility to be promising and that's it. |
Not that I'm enamored with Philly's situation, but why can't both teams have a bright future? Is it mutually exclusive? |
PHI (and us) definitely can have a bright future. But ask around, most people will say both team's future looks bleak at teh moment.
My argument is that if you don't think PHI, who has better assets than us, has a promising future, how can you say confidently that "LAL has a promiising futre"? Other than homer delusional/wishful thinking? |
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22
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Joined: 05 Apr 2013
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| Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 3:17 pm Post subject: Re: A Suddenly Somewhat Promising Future. |
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| mbright wrote: | | 22 wrote: | | mbright wrote: | | Lakers2015 wrote: | Everyone seems to think the future of the Lakers is so bleak and dark, but really that couldn't be further from the truth.
That's not to say I see us being a championship team in two years because as much of an optimist as I am I wouldn't anticipate the return to glory being that quickly.
Keeping the pick is huge. That goes without saying. You're talking about being up to conceivably have three young players to build around. Basically three lottery picks. Yes we know Clarkson was a second rounder, but he sure as hell hasn't played like one. He should finish at least top 3 in the voting for rookie of the year or there should be an investigation.
I'm not trying to anoint the kid because he is just a rookie after all, but being a Lakers fan as long as I have as a lot of you have when was the last time we had a young, electric, athletic player at the point guard position like Clarkson? It has been quite some time. Of course there are things he needs to work on.
Stu highlighted last night sometimes he dribbles too high in the midst of traffic and that can lead to turnovers. His defense is subpar at best, but so is Andrew Wiggins who was seen as somebody who is gonna be a lockdown defender because of his premier athletic ability and defensive instincts. Point being most expect him to improve so there's no reason Clarkson can't improve as well on the defensive end.
Now Julius Randle. Suffered a freak, terrible injury on opening night. All signs however point to him coming back at 100 percent. I'm no doctor, but it didn't look nearly as bad as Paul George's injury in July and he's already back and playing at a high level. Yes I realize Randle has yet to even really play in the NBA. All we've basically seen is him in the pre-season and Summer League and now awhole lot can be put into that. However the skill set is evident. Julius isn't the tallest guy, but he is supremely skilled for a big man. The ability to post, ball handling skills, combined with his physicality and his athleticism and ability to beat his man off the dribble is something very rare. Much like Clarkson he needs to improve defensively and finishing with his right hand because in the NBA teams will force him away from his strong end. He seems to be as dedicated and detrimened as any young player coming into this league. You see his interviews and he always talks about his love for the game of basketball, wanting to get back, getting better and better and I have no doubt he will.
Now to the pick. The Lakers deserve to be critiqued for not providing better protection to the pick however think back to the trade did anyone actually think we'd be where we're? In regards to being in the draft lottery twice in a row. Nobody anticipated Nash's career ending in the manner in which it did or Kobe suffering an assortment of season ending injuries that have severely hampered him. Again doesn't excuse not protecting the pick better, but you can see why they were so confident they weren't gonna lose that pick. Still and all we have over an 80 percent chance of keeping it and if we do it gives us three building blocks. That's not a bleak future. That's a potentially bright and very bright future. |
In comparison, PHI has
A better playing rookie than JC in Noel.
A better return-from-injury rookie than Randle in Embbid.
A likely higher pick this year.
More cap.
And our pick next year (even if we kept it this year)
Do you think PHI has a promising future?
I think it's quite obvious that our future looks bleak for now. We ONLY have a possibility to be promising and that's it. |
Not that I'm enamored with Philly's situation, but why can't both teams have a bright future? Is it mutually exclusive? |
PHI (and us) definitely can have a bright future. But ask around, most people will say both team's future looks bleak at teh moment.
My argument is that if you don't think PHI, who has better assets than us, has a promising future, how can you say confidently that "LAL has a promiising futre"? Other than homer delusional/wishful thinking? |
The problem is the bolded. That's your assumption/opinion.
Other people are not operating under that concept |
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dmorans1
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| Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 3:31 pm Post subject: |
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| IMO Clarkson changed everything for us. Unexpectedly, we have another young stud, basically top 10 in the draft talent wise. Add Tarik Black as another unexpected talent though not the same potential but good enough to be a backup big. These are 2 guys who really shouldn't be playing this well but I'll take it and be thrilled with them. |
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K0BEE 2.0
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| Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 3:36 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | Yes, I don't see them making the playoffs |
Not sure you know, but the term "up swing" has a bigger meaning then you think. missing the playoffs and still accomplishing something comes from the way the Clippers thought back in there hay day.... you are basically putting the Lakers in the same categories as those unfortunate franchises. |
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Lakers2015
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Joined: 16 Feb 2015
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| Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 3:37 pm Post subject: Re: A Suddenly Somewhat Promising Future. |
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| mbright wrote: | | 22 wrote: | | mbright wrote: | | Lakers2015 wrote: | Everyone seems to think the future of the Lakers is so bleak and dark, but really that couldn't be further from the truth.
That's not to say I see us being a championship team in two years because as much of an optimist as I am I wouldn't anticipate the return to glory being that quickly.
Keeping the pick is huge. That goes without saying. You're talking about being up to conceivably have three young players to build around. Basically three lottery picks. Yes we know Clarkson was a second rounder, but he sure as hell hasn't played like one. He should finish at least top 3 in the voting for rookie of the year or there should be an investigation.
I'm not trying to anoint the kid because he is just a rookie after all, but being a Lakers fan as long as I have as a lot of you have when was the last time we had a young, electric, athletic player at the point guard position like Clarkson? It has been quite some time. Of course there are things he needs to work on.
Stu highlighted last night sometimes he dribbles too high in the midst of traffic and that can lead to turnovers. His defense is subpar at best, but so is Andrew Wiggins who was seen as somebody who is gonna be a lockdown defender because of his premier athletic ability and defensive instincts. Point being most expect him to improve so there's no reason Clarkson can't improve as well on the defensive end.
Now Julius Randle. Suffered a freak, terrible injury on opening night. All signs however point to him coming back at 100 percent. I'm no doctor, but it didn't look nearly as bad as Paul George's injury in July and he's already back and playing at a high level. Yes I realize Randle has yet to even really play in the NBA. All we've basically seen is him in the pre-season and Summer League and now awhole lot can be put into that. However the skill set is evident. Julius isn't the tallest guy, but he is supremely skilled for a big man. The ability to post, ball handling skills, combined with his physicality and his athleticism and ability to beat his man off the dribble is something very rare. Much like Clarkson he needs to improve defensively and finishing with his right hand because in the NBA teams will force him away from his strong end. He seems to be as dedicated and detrimened as any young player coming into this league. You see his interviews and he always talks about his love for the game of basketball, wanting to get back, getting better and better and I have no doubt he will.
Now to the pick. The Lakers deserve to be critiqued for not providing better protection to the pick however think back to the trade did anyone actually think we'd be where we're? In regards to being in the draft lottery twice in a row. Nobody anticipated Nash's career ending in the manner in which it did or Kobe suffering an assortment of season ending injuries that have severely hampered him. Again doesn't excuse not protecting the pick better, but you can see why they were so confident they weren't gonna lose that pick. Still and all we have over an 80 percent chance of keeping it and if we do it gives us three building blocks. That's not a bleak future. That's a potentially bright and very bright future. |
In comparison, PHI has
A better playing rookie than JC in Noel.
A better return-from-injury rookie than Randle in Embbid.
A likely higher pick this year.
More cap.
And our pick next year (even if we kept it this year)
Do you think PHI has a promising future?
I think it's quite obvious that our future looks bleak for now. We ONLY have a possibility to be promising and that's it. |
Not that I'm enamored with Philly's situation, but why can't both teams have a bright future? Is it mutually exclusive? |
PHI (and us) definitely can have a bright future. But ask around, most people will say both team's future looks bleak at teh moment.
My argument is that if you don't think PHI, who has better assets than us, has a promising future, how can you say confidently that "LAL has a promiising futre"? Other than homer delusional/wishful thinking? |
What does Philadelphia's future have to do with us?
The topic is concerning the Lakers. I don't see why you feel the need to put words in my mouth.
People say Randle is unproven which he is, but so is Embid which has a much longer injury history than Julius does.
People say Clarkson is putting up empty stats if that's the case then the same can be said for Noel.
I'm not saying either are simply putting up empty stats, but there can't be a double standard.
Clarkson has been every bit impressive as Noel. If you wanna say his ceiling isn't as high fine, but as of right now you can't make an argument that Noel is a better player. |
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Jim99187
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| Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 3:45 pm Post subject: |
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why are we comparing our future with Philly's future.
last thing u know is Philly will trade Noel for a lotto pick next trade deadline and Embiid the yr after that.
we dont have that history, they
also when was the last time Philly signed a Marquee FA to max? Elton brand? |
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M2K
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Posts: 2432
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| Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Troublesome626 wrote: | If we lose the pick it would be a major fail. I don't care what anyway tries to say otherwise. It would be a fail of epic proportions.  lol |
+1
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maomao
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| Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 4:22 pm Post subject: |
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| future is bleak as long as BS being coach and kobe taking 20+ million cap |
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32
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| Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 4:26 pm Post subject: |
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I think Kobe and Bryon are joined at the hip. They both could be gone after next season.
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22
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| Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 4:27 pm Post subject: |
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| maomao wrote: | | future is bleak as long as BS being coach and kobe taking 20+ million cap |
so for 1 more season  |
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Dumhead
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| Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 4:29 pm Post subject: |
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The argument surrounding Clarkson has been well exhausted by now. Optimists will keep saying his future is really bright. I tend to think he'll be a solid player, but with significantly reduced numbers when blue chippers are around. It is just a simple matter of math. Only so many shots available in a game. And as for Randle... who knows.
The reality is we just don't know. This could all turn out great within a couple years. Or it could just totally suck.
I'd rephrase this to be a "potentially promising" future... it seems within the realm of possibility. But there are still too many unknowns for me to feel too up or down either way.
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kikanga
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| Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 4:32 pm Post subject: |
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| 32 wrote: | | I think Kobe and Bryon are joined at the hip. They both could be gone after next season. |
That would make it 4 different coaches in 6 seasons. 
Fourth time is a charm, isn't that how the saying goes?
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wyominglaker
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| Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 4:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Saka wrote: | | Or worst case scenario: Clarkson's play is inflated by lack of star players around him, he falls, Randle comes back but is an under-achiever and doesn't really fit anywhere, possibly injury prone and also we lose our pick. That would be pretty crappy. |
This is exactly the kind of warped thinking that drives me crazy. The kid is a rookie on a bad team and he is asked to be the floor general and first offensive option. He has little help around him. Despite all of this, he has been incredibly productive and has a promising future. With more talent around him might he score fewer points per game? Sure. But then his assist total and FG % might be higher. |
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44TheLogo
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Joined: 21 Feb 2009
Posts: 6364
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| Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 5:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Dumhead wrote: | The argument surrounding Clarkson has been well exhausted by now. Optimists will keep saying his future is really bright. I tend to think he'll be a solid player, but with significantly reduced numbers when blue chippers are around. It is just a simple matter of math. Only so many shots available in a game. And as for Randle... who knows.
The reality is we just don't know. This could all turn out great within a couple years. Or it could just totally suck.
I'd rephrase this to be a "potentially promising" future... it seems within the realm of possibility. But there are still too many unknowns for me to feel too up or down either way. |
There are many rookies who can't even get numbers on garbage teams. It bodes well for Clarkson's development that he can at least do that. The Magic are sorry too, but Elfrid Payton looks good. Same with Wiggins and the Timberwolves. Kyrie put up numbers on (bleep) Cavs teams.
It's a cop out to say "we just don't know". His scoring numbers will likely drop, yes, but it's also possible that his assists and efficiency numbers go way up with better teammates around him. We can see his strengths - he has an explosive first step, can finish around the rim at a respectable clip, plays a savvy pick and roll game, is good in transition, has developed a nice mid-range pull up. If we sign Westbrook then sure his numbers and minutes will go down because we get one of the best players at his position in the world. It depends on the players we bring in and the system of basketball we end up playing. Of course nobody can predict the future but you can make educated guesses based on what you actually see. It's not a completely random coin flip as you present it as. |
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wyominglaker
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| Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 5:06 pm Post subject: Re: A Suddenly Somewhat Promising Future. |
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| mbright wrote: | | Lakers2015 wrote: | Everyone seems to think the future of the Lakers is so bleak and dark, but really that couldn't be further from the truth.
That's not to say I see us being a championship team in two years because as much of an optimist as I am I wouldn't anticipate the return to glory being that quickly.
Keeping the pick is huge. That goes without saying. You're talking about being up to conceivably have three young players to build around. Basically three lottery picks. Yes we know Clarkson was a second rounder, but he sure as hell hasn't played like one. He should finish at least top 3 in the voting for rookie of the year or there should be an investigation.
I'm not trying to anoint the kid because he is just a rookie after all, but being a Lakers fan as long as I have as a lot of you have when was the last time we had a young, electric, athletic player at the point guard position like Clarkson? It has been quite some time. Of course there are things he needs to work on.
Stu highlighted last night sometimes he dribbles too high in the midst of traffic and that can lead to turnovers. His defense is subpar at best, but so is Andrew Wiggins who was seen as somebody who is gonna be a lockdown defender because of his premier athletic ability and defensive instincts. Point being most expect him to improve so there's no reason Clarkson can't improve as well on the defensive end.
Now Julius Randle. Suffered a freak, terrible injury on opening night. All signs however point to him coming back at 100 percent. I'm no doctor, but it didn't look nearly as bad as Paul George's injury in July and he's already back and playing at a high level. Yes I realize Randle has yet to even really play in the NBA. All we've basically seen is him in the pre-season and Summer League and now awhole lot can be put into that. However the skill set is evident. Julius isn't the tallest guy, but he is supremely skilled for a big man. The ability to post, ball handling skills, combined with his physicality and his athleticism and ability to beat his man off the dribble is something very rare. Much like Clarkson he needs to improve defensively and finishing with his right hand because in the NBA teams will force him away from his strong end. He seems to be as dedicated and detrimened as any young player coming into this league. You see his interviews and he always talks about his love for the game of basketball, wanting to get back, getting better and better and I have no doubt he will.
Now to the pick. The Lakers deserve to be critiqued for not providing better protection to the pick however think back to the trade did anyone actually think we'd be where we're? In regards to being in the draft lottery twice in a row. Nobody anticipated Nash's career ending in the manner in which it did or Kobe suffering an assortment of season ending injuries that have severely hampered him. Again doesn't excuse not protecting the pick better, but you can see why they were so confident they weren't gonna lose that pick. Still and all we have over an 80 percent chance of keeping it and if we do it gives us three building blocks. That's not a bleak future. That's a potentially bright and very bright future. |
In comparison, PHI has
A better playing rookie than JC in Noel.
A better return-from-injury rookie than Randle in Embbid.
A likely higher pick this year.
More cap.
And our pick next year (even if we kept it this year)
Do you think PHI has a promising future?
I think it's quite obvious that our future looks bleak for now. We ONLY have a possibility to be promising and that's it. |
Not necessarily. They are the 76ers and we are the Lakers. We are the NBA's premier franchise and people want to play for us. We have a track record and history. We always rebuild. We always rise again to the top. It is who we are and what we do. Might be arrogant, but it is true. |
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Bol
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| Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 5:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Long way to go, but I agree Randle, the top 5 pick, and Clarkson are at least a start toward climbing back up the mountain, and will definitely make next season much more interesting and enjoyable to watch than this one has been. I don't believe those 3 will be the core of a championship team, but they're the kind of young talent the Lakers have to begin getting together in order to start putting an entertaining team on the floor and be in a position to make meaningful trades and free agent signings. Must keep the pick though, it would be a major setback for such a talent-starved, completely rebuilding team to lose that asset. |
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activeverb
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| Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 5:09 pm Post subject: Re: A Suddenly Somewhat Promising Future. |
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| Lakers2015 wrote: | | That's not a bleak future. That's a potentially bright and very bright future. |
I wouldn't go as far as you would. To me, a "promising future" means you have pieces in place that you are confident give you a shot of doing something.
I don't think we have that yet. We can hope/guess/fantacize that we have things that will turn into pieces -- our draft picks, Randle, Clarkson, cap space.
So I'd say it's more accurate to say we can envision a path to a bright future if things go our way. But, heck, after two dismal seasons, having a roll of the dice is better than nothing. |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 5:56 pm Post subject: |
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| K0BEE 2.0 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Yes, I don't see them making the playoffs |
Not sure you know, but the term "up swing" has a bigger meaning then you think. missing the playoffs and still accomplishing something comes from the way the Clippers thought back in there hay day.... you are basically putting the Lakers in the same categories as those unfortunate franchises. |
No, I don't know that because I couldn't care less about the Clippers, just the Lakers on the road to improvement. By the way, upswing means moving in an upward direction. Going from 20 wins to 35-40 wins is definitely an upswing.
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kikanga
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| Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 6:10 pm Post subject: |
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We could win a chip with our roster, right now.
When do the D-league playoffs start?
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Potato-Mania
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Joined: 07 Nov 2012
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| Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 6:20 pm Post subject: |
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I am on the fence as of right now. I love the Clarkson pick but Randle is still a little bit of an unknown at the moment. I still have faith he will turn out good, but can't put all my chips in on him.
We get our pick this year but most likely lose it next year, and the year after the pick goes to Orlando. If we are banking on trades. That means trading Clarkson and/or Randle for a player, but who are we trading them for and who are they coming here to surround? It will not be Kobe.
That leaves free agency. At this moment in time I just don't see why anyone in their prime would risk signing with us. i feel we have to hit with our picks, and we don't have many of them because of prior moves. |
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70sdude
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| Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 6:33 pm Post subject: |
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The future is neither dark nor bright; it's our attitudes about it that color it.
The OP is disposed to see much cause for instant change for the better, and I agree that those possibilities exist.
Of equal weight in my mind are the very real possibilities that: Clarkson is a flash in the pan, that Randle is the tweener he seems to be, that there's little in the high lottery picks to suggest franchise-changing talent. I don't think we'll see much of an instant turnaround.
Some degree of improvement seems highly likely, but let's not get carried away. A 42 win season would be a big improvement and a step in the right direction. I'd take that. But going better than that in 2015-16 seems unlikely. It seems most likely to require take another trade or two, a FA coup, and another complementary draft pick to move much past a .550 mark. |
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kwase
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| Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 6:45 pm Post subject: |
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| First off, let me say that there's really no way to go but up from here...we're circling the drain right now. With that being said, I certainly hope the OP is right. However, banking your future on unproven rookies has never been proven to be a formula for success. At some point Jimbo's got to get a quality FA to sign with us...there's absolutely no way around that! |
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Peoples Hernandez
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| Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 7:13 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | Yes, I don't see them making the playoffs |
Exactly.
The real culprit here is the teams that are good enough to win 50-55 games in the conference and hog up the playoff spots annually but have no legit shot at winning the whole thing. The poster children of this are the Clippers and Grizzlies. Everyone knows that they won't win a title with their current nucleus' but here they are making it that much tougher to get into the playoffs. Unfortunately, we'll have to wait out their foolish runs until one of their stars leaves or their management decides this is as far as we'll go with this group and blows it up. Either way, it'll be awhile before we get back into the playoffs.
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Whenever the Lakers benefit all of a sudden rules need to be changed and trades need to be blocked.
"It's all entertainment" -Rasheed Wallace |
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