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Peoples Hernandez
Star Player
Joined: 11 Apr 2009
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 Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 7:19 pm Post subject: |
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| kwase wrote: | | First off, let me say that there's really no way to go but up from here...we're circling the drain right now. With that being said, I certainly hope the OP is right. However, banking your future on unproven rookies has never been proven to be a formula for success. At some point Jimbo's got to get a quality FA to sign with us...there's absolutely no way around that! |
...And there's no way around developing said unproven rookies into quality starters, role players, and stars in order to get quality FAs to sign here. Free Agency is much like life. You have to have the horse first before you buy the cart. No quality Free Agent has ever signed with a team bereft of talent in the history of the league. Not a single one.
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Whenever the Lakers benefit all of a sudden rules need to be changed and trades need to be blocked.
"It's all entertainment" -Rasheed Wallace |
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ringfinger
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Joined: 08 Oct 2013
Posts: 29418
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| Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 8:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Peoples Hernandez wrote: | | kwase wrote: | | First off, let me say that there's really no way to go but up from here...we're circling the drain right now. With that being said, I certainly hope the OP is right. However, banking your future on unproven rookies has never been proven to be a formula for success. At some point Jimbo's got to get a quality FA to sign with us...there's absolutely no way around that! |
...And there's no way around developing said unproven rookies into quality starters, role players, and stars in order to get quality FAs to sign here. Free Agency is much like life. You have to have the horse first before you buy the cart. No quality Free Agent has ever signed with a team bereft of talent in the history of the league. Not a single one. |
Lebron.
Melo.
Kobe. |
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LakerLanny
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Joined: 24 Oct 2001
Posts: 47581
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| Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 8:20 pm Post subject: |
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You probably should have some decent young players coming if you finish 21-61.
Yes, I am counting last game as a loss.
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Thugnomoe
Franchise Player
Joined: 19 Jul 2005
Posts: 14660
Location: unfortunately not Los Angeles anymore
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| Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 11:13 pm Post subject: |
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sure these young players will make the lakers better than they are now.. that's not saying much.
maybe if we were in the east and the 6th seed can have a losing record and still make playoffs..
we're in the west.. the 9th seed has a winning record. and who are we supposed to take out?
I'm all for optimism.. I hope clarkson develops into a star.. I hope randle reaches his potential.. but at the end of the day. we get all stars to sign here. |
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Tony Anapolis
Star Player
Joined: 05 Jan 2015
Posts: 3331
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| Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 4:47 am Post subject: |
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What is all this talk about getting a "real" coach next season or the season after? Unless it's Thibs Idk who you hire? I hear Madsen, but what makes Madsen a real coach over Scott? Has Madsen even coached an NBA game?
Callipari? Please no, I do not want that ego maniac here, he has proven nothing as well. I'd rather hire the coach from Arizona or coach K. but we all know that is not happening?
Madsen seems to be the only logical choice, remeber he will be a rookie coach, coaching a bunch of rookies, 2nd, 3rd year players, so I would not expect him to be too successful. |
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ringfinger
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Joined: 08 Oct 2013
Posts: 29418
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| Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 5:57 am Post subject: |
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Plus next year is somewhat of another throw away year. It's Kobe's farewell tour.
Maybe not the best idea to bring in a new coach for that. |
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marga86
Star Player
Joined: 30 Jun 2008
Posts: 3442
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| Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 1:54 pm Post subject: |
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| im 100% on the don't draft WCS boat. |
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Rugbar
Starting Rotation
Joined: 14 Nov 2014
Posts: 203
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| Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 3:28 pm Post subject: |
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Wait until the draft before saying Lakers suddenly have a bright future.
Clarkson is a pleasant surprise, a legit NBA player. I've frequently lauded him on this board. However, I think he's getting overrated at this point. It's uncertain how good he's going to be. He's collected good stats on a tanking team, on which he's been given the green light as the focal point of the offense. But his adjusted plus/minus is weak, only 60th out of 84 point guards. (In comparison Curry, Paul, are Westbrook are the top three, and Lin is 20th.) I think Clarkson is better than he looks on this measure, but I think it should give people pause. It's still uncertain how much of a contributor Clarkson can be on a contender. |
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Rugbar
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Peoples Hernandez
Star Player
Joined: 11 Apr 2009
Posts: 3727
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| Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 4:22 pm Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | Peoples Hernandez wrote: | | kwase wrote: | | First off, let me say that there's really no way to go but up from here...we're circling the drain right now. With that being said, I certainly hope the OP is right. However, banking your future on unproven rookies has never been proven to be a formula for success. At some point Jimbo's got to get a quality FA to sign with us...there's absolutely no way around that! |
...And there's no way around developing said unproven rookies into quality starters, role players, and stars in order to get quality FAs to sign here. Free Agency is much like life. You have to have the horse first before you buy the cart. No quality Free Agent has ever signed with a team bereft of talent in the history of the league. Not a single one. |
Lebron.
Melo.
Kobe. |
Irving.
Amare (Melo was traded by the way).
Odom.
Try harder.
_________________
Whenever the Lakers benefit all of a sudden rules need to be changed and trades need to be blocked.
"It's all entertainment" -Rasheed Wallace |
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LakerLanny
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Joined: 24 Oct 2001
Posts: 47581
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| Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 4:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Rugbar wrote: | Wait until the draft before saying Lakers suddenly have a bright future.
Clarkson is a pleasant surprise, a legit NBA player. I've frequently lauded him on this board. However, I think he's getting overrated at this point. It's uncertain how good he's going to be. He's collected good stats on a tanking team, on which he's been given the green light as the focal point of the offense. But his adjusted plus/minus is weak, only 60th out of 84 point guards. (In comparison Curry, Paul, are Westbrook are the top three, and Lin is 20th.) I think Clarkson is better than he looks on this measure, but I think it should give people pause. It's still uncertain how much of a contributor Clarkson can be on a contender. |
That is an excellent post.
I agree, I think Clarkson has been very very good this season, he has been the lone bright spot in an otherwise miserable season. But I do think we have to be careful about overrating him.
Clearly he has talent, but I agree it is largely in green light mode in a very free spirited mode as the games are essentially garbage time from the opening tip.
He can play, but I would be curious to see how he would do going up against teams playing the level of defense you see in the playoffs and such.
If the Lakers keep the pick, we have something to build with potentially with Clarkson, Rendle, Top 5 Pick, Black, maybe Jabari Brown. I don't see anyone else ont he roster as a keeper past next season.
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Omar Little
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Joined: 02 May 2005
Posts: 90307
Location: Formerly Known As 24
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| Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 5:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Excellent point. This is no time for optimism. |
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KobeDunk
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Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 26849
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| Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 5:14 pm Post subject: |
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As long as Jimmy is in charge our future is uncertain.
But like the op said. Keeping the pick is huge. Jumping into the top 3 would be as huge because that means okafur towns or Russell who could be future stars.
It's also important that they don't strike out this summer in free agency. We need a foundation to attract players like Durant or Westbrook next year. |
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ringfinger
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Joined: 08 Oct 2013
Posts: 29418
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| Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 5:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Peoples Hernandez wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | Peoples Hernandez wrote: | | kwase wrote: | | First off, let me say that there's really no way to go but up from here...we're circling the drain right now. With that being said, I certainly hope the OP is right. However, banking your future on unproven rookies has never been proven to be a formula for success. At some point Jimbo's got to get a quality FA to sign with us...there's absolutely no way around that! |
...And there's no way around developing said unproven rookies into quality starters, role players, and stars in order to get quality FAs to sign here. Free Agency is much like life. You have to have the horse first before you buy the cart. No quality Free Agent has ever signed with a team bereft of talent in the history of the league. Not a single one. |
Lebron.
Melo.
Kobe. |
Irving.
Amare (Melo was traded by the way).
Odom.
Try harder. |
Lebron joined a Cavs team coming off a 24 and 33 win season. He didn't join Cleveland because of their talent because they didn't really have any. Is it your opinion that Cleveland's talent made them a FA draw?
Melo signed with New York as a FA this year in the same season that Amare was waived. You would define Amare this year as a talent?
You think Kobe stayed with LA because of Odom's talent? |
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Mike@LG
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Joined: 10 Apr 2001
Posts: 65135
Location: Orange County, CA
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| Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 5:26 pm Post subject: |
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| LakerLanny wrote: | | Rugbar wrote: | Wait until the draft before saying Lakers suddenly have a bright future.
Clarkson is a pleasant surprise, a legit NBA player. I've frequently lauded him on this board. However, I think he's getting overrated at this point. It's uncertain how good he's going to be. He's collected good stats on a tanking team, on which he's been given the green light as the focal point of the offense. But his adjusted plus/minus is weak, only 60th out of 84 point guards. (In comparison Curry, Paul, are Westbrook are the top three, and Lin is 20th.) I think Clarkson is better than he looks on this measure, but I think it should give people pause. It's still uncertain how much of a contributor Clarkson can be on a contender. |
That is an excellent post.
I agree, I think Clarkson has been very very good this season, he has been the lone bright spot in an otherwise miserable season. But I do think we have to be careful about overrating him.
Clearly he has talent, but I agree it is largely in green light mode in a very free spirited mode as the games are essentially garbage time from the opening tip.
He can play, but I would be curious to see how he would do going up against teams playing the level of defense you see in the playoffs and such.
If the Lakers keep the pick, we have something to build with potentially with Clarkson, Rendle, Top 5 Pick, Black, maybe Jabari Brown. I don't see anyone else ont he roster as a keeper past next season. |
It's difficult to put credibility in +/- when the team's defense is awful.
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https://lakersdraft.substack.com/
I am not an economic advisor nor do I advise economic strategies or plans. |
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ringfinger
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Joined: 08 Oct 2013
Posts: 29418
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| Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 5:28 pm Post subject: |
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| LakerLanny wrote: | | Rugbar wrote: | Wait until the draft before saying Lakers suddenly have a bright future.
Clarkson is a pleasant surprise, a legit NBA player. I've frequently lauded him on this board. However, I think he's getting overrated at this point. It's uncertain how good he's going to be. He's collected good stats on a tanking team, on which he's been given the green light as the focal point of the offense. But his adjusted plus/minus is weak, only 60th out of 84 point guards. (In comparison Curry, Paul, are Westbrook are the top three, and Lin is 20th.) I think Clarkson is better than he looks on this measure, but I think it should give people pause. It's still uncertain how much of a contributor Clarkson can be on a contender. |
That is an excellent post.
I agree, I think Clarkson has been very very good this season, he has been the lone bright spot in an otherwise miserable season. But I do think we have to be careful about overrating him.
Clearly he has talent, but I agree it is largely in green light mode in a very free spirited mode as the games are essentially garbage time from the opening tip.
He can play, but I would be curious to see how he would do going up against teams playing the level of defense you see in the playoffs and such.
If the Lakers keep the pick, we have something to build with potentially with Clarkson, Rendle, Top 5 Pick, Black, maybe Jabari Brown. I don't see anyone else ont he roster as a keeper past next season. |
Normally, I'd agree with you. But where JC seems like the real deal, to me, is not his scoring averages. His FG% and low turnovers are very strong indicators of quality play especially in light of being on a bad team. |
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TooMuchMajicBuss
Franchise Player
Joined: 17 Sep 2008
Posts: 21080
Location: In a white room, with black curtains near the station
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| Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 5:46 pm Post subject: |
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| 70sdude wrote: | The future is neither dark nor bright; it's our attitudes about it that color it.
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 So true. |
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AirShooter
Starting Rotation
Joined: 12 Jul 2014
Posts: 456
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| Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 5:52 pm Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | Normally, I'd agree with you. But where JC seems like the real deal, to me, is not his scoring averages. His FG% and low turnovers are very strong indicators of quality play especially in light of being on a bad team. |
Agreed, on an injury-ridden team, someone has to put up the shots and get points on the board. So it's not the volume scoring or usage rate, both of which are inflated due to the injuries and lack of personnel, that is most important. Rather, it's the efficiency that can be more translatable regardless of shot volume or usage. And he's looking really good in terms of efficiency and FG%. |
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Rugbar
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Joined: 14 Nov 2014
Posts: 203
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| Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 5:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | | LakerLanny wrote: | | Rugbar wrote: | Wait until the draft before saying Lakers suddenly have a bright future.
Clarkson is a pleasant surprise, a legit NBA player. I've frequently lauded him on this board. However, I think he's getting overrated at this point. It's uncertain how good he's going to be. He's collected good stats on a tanking team, on which he's been given the green light as the focal point of the offense. But his adjusted plus/minus is weak, only 60th out of 84 point guards. (In comparison Curry, Paul, are Westbrook are the top three, and Lin is 20th.) I think Clarkson is better than he looks on this measure, but I think it should give people pause. It's still uncertain how much of a contributor Clarkson can be on a contender. |
That is an excellent post.
I agree, I think Clarkson has been very very good this season, he has been the lone bright spot in an otherwise miserable season. But I do think we have to be careful about overrating him.
Clearly he has talent, but I agree it is largely in green light mode in a very free spirited mode as the games are essentially garbage time from the opening tip.
He can play, but I would be curious to see how he would do going up against teams playing the level of defense you see in the playoffs and such.
If the Lakers keep the pick, we have something to build with potentially with Clarkson, Rendle, Top 5 Pick, Black, maybe Jabari Brown. I don't see anyone else ont he roster as a keeper past next season. |
It's difficult to put credibility in +/- when the team's defense is awful. |
It's real plus/minus, so it is adjusted based on whom the player has been playing with and whom he has been playing against. Most of the agreed-upon stars in the league rank very highly. The team defense has been awful this year, true, but under this measure Lin comes out ranked No. 20 and Price No. 25. I'm not saying this is a perfect stat, and I think Clarkson is better than he looks on this measure. I just think it should give people pause when they start describing Clarkson as a key future piece for a contender. Great pick, nice kid, legit NBA player. Beyond that, his future is uncertain. |
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Rugbar
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Joined: 14 Nov 2014
Posts: 203
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| Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 5:59 pm Post subject: |
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| AirShooter wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | Normally, I'd agree with you. But where JC seems like the real deal, to me, is not his scoring averages. His FG% and low turnovers are very strong indicators of quality play especially in light of being on a bad team. |
Agreed, on an injury-ridden team, someone has to put up the shots and get points on the board. So it's not the volume scoring or usage rate, both of which are inflated due to the injuries and lack of personnel, that is most important. Rather, it's the efficiency that can be more translatable regardless of shot volume or usage. And he's looking really good in terms of efficiency and FG%. |
His true shooting percentage is .528. It's fine, but not spectacular. (By way of comparison, it's worse than Lin has shot in every season but his first, when he barely played.)
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/clarkjo01.html
I don't actually like playing devil's advocate here. I like Clarkson, think he could even develop into a star. But I think it's far from a sure thing. |
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activeverb
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Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 37470
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| Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 6:19 pm Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | Lebron joined a Cavs team coming off a 24 and 33 win season. He didn't join Cleveland because of their talent because they didn't really have any. |
Well, they did have this all-star point guard named Kylie Irving, as well as the #1 overall pick which everyone expected to become Kevin Love. |
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Jello's Jigglin'
Sixth Man
Joined: 11 Mar 2015
Posts: 43
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| Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 6:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Exactly. Lebron could see the assets that Cleveland had that could be utilized to put together a competitive squad. He wouldn't have returned otherwise most likely. This example is why we need to collect assets regardless of position. |
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ringfinger
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Posts: 29418
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| Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 6:48 pm Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | Lebron joined a Cavs team coming off a 24 and 33 win season. He didn't join Cleveland because of their talent because they didn't really have any. |
Well, they did have this all-star point guard named Kylie Irving, as well as the #1 overall pick which everyone expected to become Kevin Love. |
True. But would you have described that team as talented? I wouldn't.
Then again, I guess it depends on how much we want to dilute the definition of talent. I mean, Amare was listed as the talent draw to keep Melo in NY. That's pretty diluted no? |
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activeverb
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| Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 7:20 pm Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | Lebron joined a Cavs team coming off a 24 and 33 win season. He didn't join Cleveland because of their talent because they didn't really have any. |
Well, they did have this all-star point guard named Kylie Irving, as well as the #1 overall pick which everyone expected to become Kevin Love. |
True. But would you have described that team as talented? I wouldn't.
Then again, I guess it depends on how much we want to dilute the definition of talent. I mean, Amare was listed as the talent draw to keep Melo in NY. That's pretty diluted no? |
No, I would not consider Love and Irving to "dilute the definition of talent." I think almost any superstar would be happy for that to be the nucleus of a team he joined.
I don't what you mean about Amare being the talent draw to keep Melo in NY. I doubt Amare was a factor in Carmelo signing the extension with the Knicks last year. I'd say the two things that convinced Anthony to resign were (1) the money and (2) a belief that Phil Jackson would turn things around. |
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Jackchang
Sixth Man
Joined: 02 Jan 2015
Posts: 36
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| Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 7:31 pm Post subject: |
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PG: The Head of Snake
SG: The Head of Snake
SF: The Head of Snake
PF: The Head of Snake
C: The Head of Snake
Coach: The Head of all Heads of Snakes
this will win you championship, not instantly, for we all know rebuilding is a long process, but at least it will happen in the mouth of the head of all heads of snakes many times. |
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