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evetssteve10
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 Posted: Sat Apr 25, 2015 9:38 pm Post subject: |
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| kobebrinedabes wrote: | | Lakers95 wrote: | | But stat geeks and efficiency aficionados across the internet have told me that Kobe isn't even in the conversation of the top 15 players of all time. Am I really supposed to value the opinion of some nobody like Kevin Durant, who's only a former MVP, scoring champion, and a guy who has been to the NBA finals over theirs!? |
Kobe is definitely not a top 5 player of all time. He's top 15 for me because of his resume. These players really don't have any idea what they are talking about for the most part. Lots of them chose Westbrook, the most selfish player of all time, as the MVP 
And oh yeah, efficiency is important, not sure why you're knocking it. Bitter much? |
Kobe is efficient. He just doesn't form his entire game around the notion that his numbers need to reflect a certain image. Kobe is not afraid to do things like heave a full court shot at the end of the half because although it will bring his numbers down, it's the smart play. There's many other examples of Kobe sacrificing an efficiency numbers for the truly smart play. There is no doubt that Kobe has earned his spot as a top player of all time, and I guarantee you threw that top 15 number out there without giving it much thought, because there isn't 14 players better than Kobe to have ever played the game. Go ahead and list 14 better players and I'll laugh at about 9 of them.
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"Bryant has been the second best player in the NBA for over a decade, but the number 1 player changes every other year. Somehow the number 1 player always seems to fall down the list but Kobe just never moves up. ". The Art of Hating Kobe Bryant |
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KobeBryantCliffordBrown
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| Posted: Sat Apr 25, 2015 10:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Treble Clef wrote: | | nevitt_smrek wrote: | | Treble Clef wrote: | | Peoples Hernandez wrote: | | Reflexx wrote: | | Kareem is the Rodney Dangerfield of the NBA. |
Taking a page from Kobe but yes I blame the media for this too. Had they sucked him off like they did Jordan he'd be remembered properly today. Kareem has no business being an afterthought when talking about the greatest players of all-time. |
Kareem went out of his way to be aloof and distant. He resisted the attention people tried to give him. As a result, the media ignores him and coaching jobs don't come knocking. |
Media ignores him because of his name and religion. All that other stuff is just blowing smoke. Not saying Kareem was the nicest guy, but I doubt Russell was always Mr Smiley Face either. He had his resentment towards media and fans also. He wasn't in attendance for his own jersey retirement ceremony. However, Boston (the city) has that racist reputation and tries really hard to paint a positive picture of itself. Russell played the game a little better than Kareem did, has that laugh everyone loves. If his name was something like Abdul-Jabbar though...
You try dealing with the media. Majority of them are jerks. If there's any group that's the ultimate evil, it's them. More so than corrupt cops, dirty lawyers, corporate cheats...you name it.
Anyway, everyone has their own Rushmore. Durant has his. It's tough to choose 4 people out of the dozens of legends. |
If it's about his name and religion, why is Muhammad Ali so beloved? |
I'm not saying that KAJ isn't ignored because of his inability to connect with the average buffoon sportswriter and reporter. But using Ali is a bad example. Ali was hated until he carried the Olympic Torch and was suffering so badly because of Parkinson's.
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“It took many years of vomiting up all the filth I’d been taught about myself, and half-believed, before I was able to walk on the earth as though I had a right to be here.”
― James Baldwin, Collected Essays |
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KobeBryantCliffordBrown
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| Posted: Sat Apr 25, 2015 10:11 pm Post subject: |
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| kobebrinedabes wrote: | | Lakers95 wrote: | | But stat geeks and efficiency aficionados across the internet have told me that Kobe isn't even in the conversation of the top 15 players of all time. Am I really supposed to value the opinion of some nobody like Kevin Durant, who's only a former MVP, scoring champion, and a guy who has been to the NBA finals over theirs!? |
Kobe is definitely not a top 5 player of all time. He's top 15 for me because of his resume. These players really don't have any idea what they are talking about for the most part. Lots of them chose Westbrook, the most selfish player of all time, as the MVP
And oh yeah, efficiency is important, not sure why you're knocking it. Bitter much? |
Troll much? Seriously, you need to be gone.
_________________
“It took many years of vomiting up all the filth I’d been taught about myself, and half-believed, before I was able to walk on the earth as though I had a right to be here.”
― James Baldwin, Collected Essays |
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Telleris
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| Posted: Sat Apr 25, 2015 10:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Laker's Fan wrote: | | It would be interesting to poll the players on whether they know where the actual Mt. Rushmore is. |
or who is on it....
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I believe everything the media tells me except for anything for which I have direct personal knowledge, which they always get wrong |
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SDLakersFan
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| Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2015 2:11 am Post subject: |
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| Durant is a 6'10 shooter...makes sense he'd pick Bird. Although considering his age it's safe to say he never saw Bird play. |
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ChickenStu
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Location: Anaheim, CA
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| Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2015 2:28 am Post subject: |
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| The only real knock anybody can say about Bird was that he didn't play for as long as some of the other all-time greats. (Which is what is so astounding about Kareem; the guy was legitimately great until he was about 40.) But man, Bird was an incredible basketball player. Quite possibly the best pure shooter of all-time, a remarkable passer, and a great rebounder, too. Also a fantastic leader. When both he and Magic were in their primes, remember that it was a legitimate debate as to which guy was the better player. Oh, and by the way, Magic didn't play for a long time compared to some, either. Bird was the real deal. |
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Conker
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| Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2015 8:42 am Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | The whole Mount Rushmore thing became a tired cliché about six months ago. |
More like 2-3 years ago...
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Conker
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| Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2015 8:43 am Post subject: |
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| SDLakersFan wrote: | | Durant is a 6'10 shooter...makes sense he'd pick Bird. Although considering his age it's safe to say he never saw Bird play. |
Same with Kareem Abdul-Jabbar that anyone here is moaning to Devin Kurant about.
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Ziggy
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| Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2015 10:30 am Post subject: |
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| Telleris wrote: | | Laker's Fan wrote: | | It would be interesting to poll the players on whether they know where the actual Mt. Rushmore is. |
or who is on it.... |
So true
Recently Kimmel went to Venice Beach and asked random people to name 2 senators. They couldn't do it. Then he asked them to name strains of weed and they started listing them off like the alphabet.
Murrica. |
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governator
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| Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2015 6:25 am Post subject: |
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I think MJ-Kareem-wilt-magic are on their own stratosphere
Shaq-Russel-Oscar-Kobe-Duncan-Bird-(Lebron... pending) are a slither below
everybody else not on same level |
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Batguano
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| Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2015 6:56 am Post subject: |
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Anybody who doesn't think that Kobe has just as much of an argument as Magic, Wilt, Kareem on the Mt. Rushmore is an era/generation-biased homer.
Everyone of those player's careers could just as easily be "nitpicked" in the way that Kobe's is to make the argument against their inclusion. These players were just lucky that they didn't come up in an era where the media/fan scrutiny is at an all time high.
1) Wilt: "Only" won 2 championships in a weaker/less teams era where he was clearly head and shoulders above everyone else physically. And in an era where his counterpart, Russell, managed to win 11. This despite later teaming up with two other Top 15 All Timers in West and Baylor to form one of the most disappointing Superteams in NBA history.
2) Kareem: Never won a ring without another Top 10/GOAT candidate (first with Oscar, then with Magic). "Only" 2 Finals MVPs to his 6 rings.
3) Magic: Not an elite defensive player/stopper (game is played on both sides of the court). Never won a ring without Kareem (funny, this never got brought up like "Kobe hasn't won without Shaq" all those years...). Took more finals appearances/losses than Kobe to get to his 5 rings. But of course, Magic is glorified for just MAKING the Finals. Whereas Kobe/LeBron are criticized for the number of finals they've lost.
4) Bird: Not an elite defensive player/stopper. Yes I know he made some defensive 2nd teams, and he was a very crafty team defender. Still not an elite defensive player. "Only" has 2 finals MVPs to his 3 rings.
You guys better start getting used to Kobe being mentioned in the Mt. Rushmore and even over the players listed above the more we move into the future. |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2015 7:02 am Post subject: |
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| Batguano wrote: | Anybody who doesn't think that Kobe has just as much of an argument as Magic, Wilt, Kareem on the Mt. Rushmore is an era/generation-biased homer.
Everyone of those player's careers could just as easily be "nitpicked" in the way that Kobe's is to make the argument against their inclusion. These players were just lucky that they didn't come up in an era where the media/fan scrutiny is at an all time high.
1) Wilt: "Only" won 2 championships in a weaker/less teams era where he was clearly head and shoulders above everyone else physically. And in an era where his counterpart, Russell, managed to win 11. This despite later teaming up with two other Top 15 All Timers in West and Baylor to form one of the most disappointing Superteams in NBA history.
2) Kareem: Never won a ring without another Top 10/GOAT candidate (first with Oscar, then with Magic). "Only" 2 Finals MVPs to his 6 rings.
3) Magic: Not an elite defensive player/stopper (game is played on both sides of the court). Never won a ring without Kareem (funny, this never got brought up like "Kobe hasn't won without Shaq" all those years...). Took more finals appearances/losses than Kobe to get to his 5 rings. But of course, Magic is glorified for just MAKING the Finals. Whereas Kobe/LeBron are criticized for the number of finals they've lost.
4) Bird: Not an elite defensive player/stopper. Yes I know he made some defensive 2nd teams, and he was a very crafty team defender. Still not an elite defensive player. "Only" has 2 finals MVPs to his 3 rings.
You guys better start getting used to Kobe being mentioned in the Mt. Rushmore and even over the players listed above the more we move into the future. |
How does media/fans get used to argue that Lebron is artificially hyped, but then, also used to argue that for other players it is a barrier?
It can be a blessing, or a curse, just like having no media/fans scrutiny can be as well.
What about MJ? What are the reasons you think he shouldn't be on the Rushmore? |
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Batguano
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| Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2015 7:07 am Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | Batguano wrote: | Anybody who doesn't think that Kobe has just as much of an argument as Magic, Wilt, Kareem on the Mt. Rushmore is an era/generation-biased homer.
Everyone of those player's careers could just as easily be "nitpicked" in the way that Kobe's is to make the argument against their inclusion. These players were just lucky that they didn't come up in an era where the media/fan scrutiny is at an all time high.
1) Wilt: "Only" won 2 championships in a weaker/less teams era where he was clearly head and shoulders above everyone else physically. And in an era where his counterpart, Russell, managed to win 11. This despite later teaming up with two other Top 15 All Timers in West and Baylor to form one of the most disappointing Superteams in NBA history.
2) Kareem: Never won a ring without another Top 10/GOAT candidate (first with Oscar, then with Magic). "Only" 2 Finals MVPs to his 6 rings.
3) Magic: Not an elite defensive player/stopper (game is played on both sides of the court). Never won a ring without Kareem (funny, this never got brought up like "Kobe hasn't won without Shaq" all those years...). Took more finals appearances/losses than Kobe to get to his 5 rings. But of course, Magic is glorified for just MAKING the Finals. Whereas Kobe/LeBron are criticized for the number of finals they've lost.
4) Bird: Not an elite defensive player/stopper. Yes I know he made some defensive 2nd teams, and he was a very crafty team defender. Still not an elite defensive player. "Only" has 2 finals MVPs to his 3 rings.
You guys better start getting used to Kobe being mentioned in the Mt. Rushmore and even over the players listed above the more we move into the future. |
How does media/fans get used to argue that Lebron is artificially hyped, but then, also used to argue that for other players it is a barrier?
It can be a blessing, or a curse, just like having no media/fans scrutiny can be as well.
What about MJ? What are the reasons you think he shouldn't be on the Rushmore? |
I didn't list MJ because I can't think of reasons he shouldn't be on it as easily as the other players...  |
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Batguano
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| Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2015 7:10 am Post subject: |
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The media bias has been a blessing for: Jordan, Russell, Magic, Bird, Kareem, Wilt, Big O, LeBron.
It has been a curse for: Kobe... |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2015 7:17 am Post subject: |
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| Batguano wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | Batguano wrote: | Anybody who doesn't think that Kobe has just as much of an argument as Magic, Wilt, Kareem on the Mt. Rushmore is an era/generation-biased homer.
Everyone of those player's careers could just as easily be "nitpicked" in the way that Kobe's is to make the argument against their inclusion. These players were just lucky that they didn't come up in an era where the media/fan scrutiny is at an all time high.
1) Wilt: "Only" won 2 championships in a weaker/less teams era where he was clearly head and shoulders above everyone else physically. And in an era where his counterpart, Russell, managed to win 11. This despite later teaming up with two other Top 15 All Timers in West and Baylor to form one of the most disappointing Superteams in NBA history.
2) Kareem: Never won a ring without another Top 10/GOAT candidate (first with Oscar, then with Magic). "Only" 2 Finals MVPs to his 6 rings.
3) Magic: Not an elite defensive player/stopper (game is played on both sides of the court). Never won a ring without Kareem (funny, this never got brought up like "Kobe hasn't won without Shaq" all those years...). Took more finals appearances/losses than Kobe to get to his 5 rings. But of course, Magic is glorified for just MAKING the Finals. Whereas Kobe/LeBron are criticized for the number of finals they've lost.
4) Bird: Not an elite defensive player/stopper. Yes I know he made some defensive 2nd teams, and he was a very crafty team defender. Still not an elite defensive player. "Only" has 2 finals MVPs to his 3 rings.
You guys better start getting used to Kobe being mentioned in the Mt. Rushmore and even over the players listed above the more we move into the future. |
How does media/fans get used to argue that Lebron is artificially hyped, but then, also used to argue that for other players it is a barrier?
It can be a blessing, or a curse, just like having no media/fans scrutiny can be as well.
What about MJ? What are the reasons you think he shouldn't be on the Rushmore? |
I didn't list MJ because I can't think of reasons he shouldn't be on it as easily as the other players... |
That's fair, I think it is a generally accepted rule that he is a shoe-in.
So how do you think Lebron gets so much love with all of this media/fan scrutiny that is so commonplace in this era? Perhaps, that validates his dominance? To be able to rise up against all of that scrutiny and still get the love? |
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Batguano
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| Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2015 7:26 am Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | That's fair, I think it is a generally accepted rule that he is a shoe-in.
So how do you think Lebron gets so much love with all of this media/fan scrutiny that is so commonplace in this era? Perhaps, that validates his dominance? To be able to rise up against all of that scrutiny and still get the love? |
I think even though the media scrutiny is more commonplace in this era, there are still "good guys" and "bad guys" (as determined by the media). So a lot of it depends on how they feel personally about they player and how they choose to shape his image.
LeBron got temporarily thrown into the "bad guy" list shortly after The Decision, but got exonerated from it after winning his first chip.
Kobe got thrown into the "bad guy" list and has been kept there for most of his career. It's only recently, in the twilight of his career, a virtual non-threat, etc. that the media is STARTING to give him his "GOAT/MT Rushmore" props. But it still seems like it comes with some sort of "footnote" or * or "but" that isn't applied to the other heralded GOAT players. |
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KobeBryantCliffordBrown
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Joined: 28 Apr 2008
Posts: 6429
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| Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2015 7:34 am Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | Batguano wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | Batguano wrote: | Anybody who doesn't think that Kobe has just as much of an argument as Magic, Wilt, Kareem on the Mt. Rushmore is an era/generation-biased homer.
Everyone of those player's careers could just as easily be "nitpicked" in the way that Kobe's is to make the argument against their inclusion. These players were just lucky that they didn't come up in an era where the media/fan scrutiny is at an all time high.
1) Wilt: "Only" won 2 championships in a weaker/less teams era where he was clearly head and shoulders above everyone else physically. And in an era where his counterpart, Russell, managed to win 11. This despite later teaming up with two other Top 15 All Timers in West and Baylor to form one of the most disappointing Superteams in NBA history.
2) Kareem: Never won a ring without another Top 10/GOAT candidate (first with Oscar, then with Magic). "Only" 2 Finals MVPs to his 6 rings.
3) Magic: Not an elite defensive player/stopper (game is played on both sides of the court). Never won a ring without Kareem (funny, this never got brought up like "Kobe hasn't won without Shaq" all those years...). Took more finals appearances/losses than Kobe to get to his 5 rings. But of course, Magic is glorified for just MAKING the Finals. Whereas Kobe/LeBron are criticized for the number of finals they've lost.
4) Bird: Not an elite defensive player/stopper. Yes I know he made some defensive 2nd teams, and he was a very crafty team defender. Still not an elite defensive player. "Only" has 2 finals MVPs to his 3 rings.
You guys better start getting used to Kobe being mentioned in the Mt. Rushmore and even over the players listed above the more we move into the future. |
How does media/fans get used to argue that Lebron is artificially hyped, but then, also used to argue that for other players it is a barrier?
It can be a blessing, or a curse, just like having no media/fans scrutiny can be as well.
What about MJ? What are the reasons you think he shouldn't be on the Rushmore? |
I didn't list MJ because I can't think of reasons he shouldn't be on it as easily as the other players... |
That's fair, I think it is a generally accepted rule that he is a shoe-in.
So how do you think Lebron gets so much love with all of this media/fan scrutiny that is so commonplace in this era? Perhaps, that validates his dominance? To be able to rise up against all of that scrutiny and still get the love? |
Argument against MJ: He never won jack without Pippen and when he retired the first time, that same team won 54 games and came within a game of the EC finals.
As to LBJ. Notice how it's really only ESPN who touts him as high or higher than Kobe? I mean, when Kobe was King, ESPN hated him but the players LOVED him. He was THE MAN and everyone knew it, talked about it and accepted it. There is much more opportunity for players to express their views than there was in Kobe's prime and yet, they have never been on the same LBJ train as they were with Kobe. Kobe was in his 17th year in the league and still up there with LBJ as the best player in the league. Even then players would talk about them as equals. in Kobe's 17th year!
Let's not kid ourselves or be fooled by the ESPN hype machine, LBJ is an all time great, but Kobe is on a different, higher, echelon.
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“It took many years of vomiting up all the filth I’d been taught about myself, and half-believed, before I was able to walk on the earth as though I had a right to be here.”
― James Baldwin, Collected Essays |
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Kirby Brian
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Location: Chattanooga
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| Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2015 12:49 pm Post subject: |
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MJ
Bird
Chronicles
DVDRDISC
Kareem |
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Nightwalker
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Joined: 09 May 2013
Posts: 2739
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| Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 4:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Dave20 wrote: | Kobe is definitely top 10, but he's not better then Jordan, Kareem, Russell, and Magic. I don't think he's better then Bird either, neither is Lebron. Bird was arguably the best player in the best era of basketball.
I see some top 10 list that has Lebron ranked above Bird. Lebron was just more athletic, thats it. Bird was a better shooter, rebounder, and just as good of a passer. He had quick feet too for a 6'10 SF, very good defender. |
We can agree to disagree here but Kobe whole body of work based on accomplishments alone is top five warranted for me. I think Kobe was better than both Magic and Bird but then again that's just my opinion others will disagree with me which is fine. |
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KobeBryantCliffordBrown
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| Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 4:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Nightwalker wrote: | | Dave20 wrote: | Kobe is definitely top 10, but he's not better then Jordan, Kareem, Russell, and Magic. I don't think he's better then Bird either, neither is Lebron. Bird was arguably the best player in the best era of basketball.
I see some top 10 list that has Lebron ranked above Bird. Lebron was just more athletic, thats it. Bird was a better shooter, rebounder, and just as good of a passer. He had quick feet too for a 6'10 SF, very good defender. |
We can agree to disagree here but Kobe whole body of work based on accomplishments alone is top five warranted for me. I think Kobe was better than both Magic and Bird but then again that's just my opinion others will disagree with me which is fine. |
I'm with you. Bruh. Top 5 dead or alive.
_________________
“It took many years of vomiting up all the filth I’d been taught about myself, and half-believed, before I was able to walk on the earth as though I had a right to be here.”
― James Baldwin, Collected Essays |
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evetssteve10
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Joined: 10 Nov 2004
Posts: 3099
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| Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 6:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Batguano wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | That's fair, I think it is a generally accepted rule that he is a shoe-in.
So how do you think Lebron gets so much love with all of this media/fan scrutiny that is so commonplace in this era? Perhaps, that validates his dominance? To be able to rise up against all of that scrutiny and still get the love? |
I think even though the media scrutiny is more commonplace in this era, there are still "good guys" and "bad guys" (as determined by the media). So a lot of it depends on how they feel personally about they player and how they choose to shape his image.
LeBron got temporarily thrown into the "bad guy" list shortly after The Decision, but got exonerated from it after winning his first chip.
Kobe got thrown into the "bad guy" list and has been kept there for most of his career. It's only recently, in the twilight of his career, a virtual non-threat, etc. that the media is STARTING to give him his "GOAT/MT Rushmore" props. But it still seems like it comes with some sort of "footnote" or * or "but" that isn't applied to the other heralded GOAT players. |
Kobe is the only player in the history of the game who has his praise finish with the line "but he's not jordan"
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"Bryant has been the second best player in the NBA for over a decade, but the number 1 player changes every other year. Somehow the number 1 player always seems to fall down the list but Kobe just never moves up. ". The Art of Hating Kobe Bryant |
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Boldarblood
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| Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 6:18 pm Post subject: |
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| A living legend.. Like a lot I have followed Lakers my whole life (I am 43 now, my first memories are watching Lakers with my Dad at like 7 or 8 years old). But I do not believe that Kobe is top 5 of all time. To many good players in the past. 7-10 range feels right. |
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Treble Clef
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| Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 8:21 pm Post subject: |
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| If this really is going to be Kobe's last season and he makes it clear by the time the season starts, he is going to get a sendoff unlike anything we have seen in pro sports. I know some people like to believe he is some kind of pariah but he has more fans than anyone. |
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Treble Clef
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| Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 8:26 pm Post subject: |
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| evetssteve10 wrote: | | kobebrinedabes wrote: | | Lakers95 wrote: | | But stat geeks and efficiency aficionados across the internet have told me that Kobe isn't even in the conversation of the top 15 players of all time. Am I really supposed to value the opinion of some nobody like Kevin Durant, who's only a former MVP, scoring champion, and a guy who has been to the NBA finals over theirs!? |
Kobe is definitely not a top 5 player of all time. He's top 15 for me because of his resume. These players really don't have any idea what they are talking about for the most part. Lots of them chose Westbrook, the most selfish player of all time, as the MVP
And oh yeah, efficiency is important, not sure why you're knocking it. Bitter much? |
Kobe is efficient. He just doesn't form his entire game around the notion that his numbers need to reflect a certain image. Kobe is not afraid to do things like heave a full court shot at the end of the half because although it will bring his numbers down, it's the smart play. There's many other examples of Kobe sacrificing an efficiency numbers for the truly smart play. There is no doubt that Kobe has earned his spot as a top player of all time, and I guarantee you threw that top 15 number out there without giving it much thought, because there isn't 14 players better than Kobe to have ever played the game. Go ahead and list 14 better players and I'll laugh at about 9 of them. |
I miss the days of guys not being afraid to throw up a full court shot at the buzzer. Even Kobe refuses to take them anymore. |
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spflakers
Star Player
Joined: 17 Apr 2008
Posts: 4077
Location: New York, NY
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| Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 9:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Batguano wrote: | Anybody who doesn't think that Kobe has just as much of an argument as Magic, Wilt, Kareem on the Mt. Rushmore is an era/generation-biased homer.
Everyone of those player's careers could just as easily be "nitpicked" in the way that Kobe's is to make the argument against their inclusion. These players were just lucky that they didn't come up in an era where the media/fan scrutiny is at an all time high.
1) Wilt: "Only" won 2 championships in a weaker/less teams era where he was clearly head and shoulders above everyone else physically. And in an era where his counterpart, Russell, managed to win 11. This despite later teaming up with two other Top 15 All Timers in West and Baylor to form one of the most disappointing Superteams in NBA history.
2) Kareem: Never won a ring without another Top 10/GOAT candidate (first with Oscar, then with Magic). "Only" 2 Finals MVPs to his 6 rings.
3) Magic: Not an elite defensive player/stopper (game is played on both sides of the court). Never won a ring without Kareem (funny, this never got brought up like "Kobe hasn't won without Shaq" all those years...). Took more finals appearances/losses than Kobe to get to his 5 rings. But of course, Magic is glorified for just MAKING the Finals. Whereas Kobe/LeBron are criticized for the number of finals they've lost.
4) Bird: Not an elite defensive player/stopper. Yes I know he made some defensive 2nd teams, and he was a very crafty team defender. Still not an elite defensive player. "Only" has 2 finals MVPs to his 3 rings.
You guys better start getting used to Kobe being mentioned in the Mt. Rushmore and even over the players listed above the more we move into the future. |
Just to note Magic won his 5th title in his 7th appearance, same as Kobe.
(Not to mention, one of the subsequent losses he played a game and a little over a half before getting hurt.; hard to make 1989 a Magic loss in the Finals. I do use the 89 Finals whenever someone says David Rivers is a Top 10 player of all-time.). |
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