Great accolade for Kawhi, but still somewhat surprising for me ...
The Spurs (and especially Kawhi) seldom engage in politicking for awards (or even attention of ANY kind), so winning the award having played only 64 games (fewest ever played by a DPOY during the 82 game era) is all the more unexpected.
Apparently, the following three individuals have won Finals MVP * and DPOY ** in NBA history:
Michael Jordan
(H)akeem Olajuwon
Kawhi Leonard
* Finals MVP awarded since 1968/1969 season
** Defensive Player of Year (DPOY) awarded since 1982/1983 season
edit: 1969/1969 changed to 1968/1969 in footnote ...
Last edited by the association on Thu Apr 23, 2015 9:36 am; edited 1 time in total
- 3rd youngest to ever win the award (behind Dwight Howard [2008/2009] and Alvin Robertson [1985/1986])
- 1st non-C/PF to win since Ron Artest in 2003/2004 season ...
I didn't realize there had been such a lengthy run of big men winning DPOY until I checked out the list ...
DPOY and FMVP and still not an All Star....I guess that's going to change next year.
IMO, the inference that All Star game appearances is a reputable barometer of value (one that's been made by several others here with regard to Kawhi's market value over the past few weeks) is off the mark ... as far as I'm concerned, the voting tally of (sometimes irrational) fans ≠ anything of consequence.
The media isn't perfect, but they certainly know the game better than the guy in the 909 beseeching everybody he knows to vote for "my guy", despite the fact that many of them have never held a basketball. Or the masses in Shanghai coalescing to vote for Yao merely owing to the novelty of seeing someone who looks like them playing in the NBA.
Who knows what's in store for Kawhi? I certainly don't ... but he's showing considerable progress over these first few seasons. And he's young ...
Joined: 06 Jun 2005 Posts: 7038 Location: Somewhere in Canada
Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 8:57 am Post subject:
He's an awesome talent on both ends of the floor but I didn't see anything special he did all year to earn the nod. Draymond Green had more of an impact with GSW this year and DeAndre's always the Clipps' defensive anchor every year. _________________
I wonder how we can get one of these. Maybe there's a future DPOY in the draft somewhere. You know, somewhere in the top 5...Perhaps the guy who won the college DPOY this season? *ahem* _________________ A banana is killed every time a terrible thread or post is made. Save the bananas. Stop creating terrible posts!
IMO, the inference that All Star game appearances is a reputable barometer of value (one that's been made by several others here with regard to Kawhi's market value over the past few weeks) is off the mark ... as far as I'm concerned, the voting tally of (sometimes irrational) fans ≠ anything of consequence. ...
The all-star reserves are chosen by the coaches. Fans only pick the starters.
Overall, the conventional and advanced statistics (on both sides of the ball) generally favor Kawhi over Green and Jordan, so ... but based on body of work (i.e., taking into account that Kawhi missed many more games than Green), the fact that this is the Defensive Player of the Year award, and the exuberant GS love that seems to be here, there and everywhere these days (the novelty factor, I guess), I anticipated that Green would get the nod.
I wonder how much of it stems from Green's personality and style being too abrasive for some? IMO, there's also an aspect of Green's game that comes across to the casual observer as being "dirty". Guys like Green and Matt Barnes (or even Ron Ron back in the day) are valuable pieces, to be sure ... but their act seems to get tiresome for some and vectors into "dirty play" territory at times.
It's probably just the case of Bogut and DJ capturing some of the votes that otherwise would have gone to Green from WC media voters ... ultimately, Green lost more votes to Bogut than Kawhi lost to Duncan.
IMO, the inference that All Star game appearances is a reputable barometer of value (one that's been made by several others here with regard to Kawhi's market value over the past few weeks) is off the mark ... as far as I'm concerned, the voting tally of (sometimes irrational) fans ≠ anything of consequence.
The fans only pick the starting five. Otherwise, I agree with you. Leonard would have had a good chance of making the roster if he hadn't been hurt. He was out for a month and was still getting back in the groove when the all-star selections were made. On the other hand, the forward position is pretty crowded in the West, so it isn't a given that he would make the roster even right now. But yeah, this is something that is driven by circumstances and it isn't a reflection of value.
IMO, the inference that All Star game appearances is a reputable barometer of value (one that's been made by several others here with regard to Kawhi's market value over the past few weeks) is off the mark ... as far as I'm concerned, the voting tally of (sometimes irrational) fans ≠ anything of consequence. ...
The all-star reserves are chosen by the coaches. Fans only pick the starters.
Does that distinction diminish the fact that all star appearances are slightly more insightful than the "eye test" in validating a player's worth? Which is to say, neither are very valuable in that process. And for avoidance of doubt, the All Star reserves are chosen by one coach in each conference each year, correct? I wasn't under the impression that all 30 coaches huddled in some dark corner and collectively recognized those worthy of the bench seats.
Last week, it was lack of All Star appearances and the very shaky argument that (otherwise highly accomplished) Chauncey Billups also earned a Finals MVP that was used as the basis for excluding Kawhi from max. deal consideration. Now it's just the All Star appearance issue, since even the most ardent resistance must acknowledge that Chauncey doesn't have a DPOY in his trophy room. IIRC, your astute analysis when we last crossed paths on this issue involved comparing two individuals with completed 10+ year careers (Chauncey at 17 years and Cedric Maxwell at 11 years) with one individual (Kawhi) who will be completing his 4th season this year as a 23 year old.
Four seasons ...three WCF appearances, two Finals appearances, one Finals MVP, one DPOY, a second team All Defensive team appearance, a likely first team All Defensive team appearance this season, and a possible appearance on the second or third team All NBA roster this season. And whatever happens in these playoffs ...
And for avoidance of doubt, the All Star reserves are chosen by one coach in each conference each year, correct? I wasn't under the impression that all 30 coaches huddled in some dark corner and collectively recognized those worthy of the bench seats. .
All the coaches in a conference vote for the all-star reserves in that conference. Coaches are not allowed to vote for one of their own players. If an all-star is injured and cannot play, the commissioner chooses the replacement.
I don't think Leonard's lack of all-star appearances will matter. He will get a max deal unless he takes the qualifying offer to become an unrestricted free agent next year.
Last edited by activeverb on Thu Apr 23, 2015 10:53 am; edited 1 time in total
And for avoidance of doubt, the All Star reserves are chosen by one coach in each conference each year, correct? I wasn't under the impression that all 30 coaches huddled in some dark corner and collectively recognized those worthy of the bench seats. .
All the coaches in a conference vote for the all-star reserves in that conference. Coaches are not allowed to vote for one of their own players. If an all-star is injured and cannot play, the commissioner chooses the replacement.
OK ... thanks.
Do you have any insight on the supposed post-season awards that are possibly coming down the pike with player votes behind the awards?
And for avoidance of doubt, the All Star reserves are chosen by one coach in each conference each year, correct? I wasn't under the impression that all 30 coaches huddled in some dark corner and collectively recognized those worthy of the bench seats. .
All the coaches in a conference vote for the all-star reserves in that conference. Coaches are not allowed to vote for one of their own players. If an all-star is injured and cannot play, the commissioner chooses the replacement.
OK ... thanks.
Do you have any insight on the supposed post-season awards that are possibly coming down the pike with player votes behind the awards?
I am not sure if the players play to give out a DPoY. The DPoY vote was close, and the MVP could be close among the sportswriter. It wouldn't be surprising if a different group of people, using a different voting system, comes to a different conclusion.
If so, I suspect some people will make a big deal about it. And those people will also be very disappointed if the sportswriters and players agree.
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144474 Location: The Gold Coast
Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 11:35 am Post subject:
USCandLakers wrote:
I wonder how we can get one of these. Maybe there's a future DPOY in the draft somewhere. You know, somewhere in the top 5...Perhaps the guy who won the college DPOY this season? *ahem*
4 out of the top 5 are players only a few years in, something for the FO to think about at draft time. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023.
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Save the bananas. Stop creating terrible posts!
