View previous topic :: View next topic |
Author |
Message |
yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
|
Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 10:30 am Post subject: The 1990s, A Blueprint to Rebuild Today? |
|
|
The 1990s are mentioned as sort of a blueprint to rebuild the Lakers today. I took the liberty of compiling some of the data, including key players (I may be missing out on some players, so fill me in). The baselines are: when the Lakers made a Finals to when they made it back to the Finals in 2000.
1990-91 (58-24, lost to Bull in NBA Finals)
1991-92 (43-39, 8th seed, lost in 1st round)
Notable players: Vlade, AC Green, Perkins, BScott, Worthy, Threatt, Teagle
1992-93 (39-43, 8th seed, lost in 1st round)
Notable players: Vlade, AC Green, Perkins, BScott, Worthy, Threatt, PEELER
1993-94 (33-49, 9th in conference)
Notable players: VAN EXEL, Peeler, LYNCH, Vlade, Campbell, CHRISTIE, TSmith, Threatt
1994-95 (48-34, 5th in conference, WC Semis)
Notable players: Van Exel, EJONES, Ceballos, Peeler, Lynch, Vlade, Campbell, Threatt
1995-96 (53-29, 4th in conference, lost in 1st round)
Notable players: Magic, Van Exel, EJones, Ceballos, Peeler, Lynch, Vlade, Campbell, Threatt
1996-97 (56-26, 4th in conference, lost in WC Semis)
Notable players: SHAQ, Van Exel, EJones, Ceballos, HORRY, KOBE, BScott, FISHER, Campbell
1997-98 (61-21, 3rd in conference, WC Finals)
Notable players: Shaq, Van Exel, EJones, FOX, Horry, Kobe, BScott, Fisher, Campbell
1998-99 (31-19, 4th in conference, lost in WC Semis)
Notable players: Shaq, Van Exel, EJones, Fox, Horry, Kobe, BScott, Fisher, Campbell
1999-00 (67-15, 1st in conference, NBA CHAMPS)
Notable players: Shaq, Kobe, HGRANT, Fox, Horry, SHAW, RHARPER, Fisher
ANALYSIS
8 seasons between 2 FINALS appearances
1991-92 (lost in 1st round)
1992-93 (lost in 1st round)
1993-94 (9th in WC)
1994-95 (WC Semis)
1995-96 (WC Finals)
1996-97 (WC Semis)
1997-98 (WC Finals)
1998-99 (WC Semis)
1999-00 (CHAMPS )
Wins from 1991 to 1998 (43, 39, 33, 48, 53, 56, 61, 31 (prorated to 51 wins), 67).
First 5 seasons after 1990 NBA Finals appearance, wins average: 43.2 wins
Compare that with the current trajectory since we beat the Chowda heads in 2010:
2010-11 (lost in WC Semis)
2011-12 (lost in WC Semis)
2012-13 (lost in 1st round)
2013-14 (14th place in WC)
2014-15 (14th place in WC)
Wins from 2010 to now (57, 41, 45, 27, 21).
First 5 seasons after 2009 NBA Finals, wins average: 38.2 wins
As spoiled Lakers fans, we are now 5 years from our last championship. Which model (1990s and current) do you like so far?
By year 5 of the 1990s rebuild, they had:
Magic (I guess he's the Kobe in the equation), Van Exel, EJones, Ceballos, Peeler, Lynch, Vlade, Campbell, Threatt. Exel had already completed 2 good seasons, and Jones had a good rookie campaign.
Lakers currently have Clarkson as the only proven young asset due to Randle's injury.
My purpose isn't to make the call, but give folks some context to discuss our rebuild. If the Lakers have a modus operandi, or will follow the 1990s blueprint, are we really doing that at this point? _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
|
Back to top |
|
|
venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144432 Location: The Gold Coast
|
Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 10:32 am Post subject: |
|
|
I think that by year 5 of this rebuild (2019) we will be contending for the Western Conference championship. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
|
Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 10:35 am Post subject: |
|
|
venturalakersfan wrote: | I think that by year 5 of this rebuild (2019) we will be contending for the Western Conference championship. |
I was a teenager in LA during the 1990s, and wasn't as much into the Lakers at the time. I'd love your insight into the 1990s Lakers. The progression made is starkly different than us right now. I'd argue that we are at ground zero in terms of the 1990s rebuild as we only have Clarkson to show for it at this point (due to Randle's injury). I hope we get a top 5 pick and some free agents, then we can start the rebuild in earnest.
I'm not sure I see a cataclysmic move like 1996-97 when the Lakers got Shaq, Kobe, Fisher in one off season. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
|
Back to top |
|
|
yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
|
Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 10:36 am Post subject: |
|
|
What is amazing is that during the 1990s rebuild, the Lakers only missed the playoffs once, and barely. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Kingpin2010 Star Player
Joined: 04 May 2013 Posts: 1260
|
Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 10:39 am Post subject: |
|
|
I don't think we should expect to replicate bringing in 2, top 10 of all time players |
|
Back to top |
|
|
yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
|
Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 10:40 am Post subject: |
|
|
Kingpin2010 wrote: | I don't think we should expect to replicate bringing in 2, top 10 of all time players |
Agreed. The hope is (was) Durant, but his foot problems are scary. Then maybe Westbrook, but both pale in comparison to Shaq/Kobe. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
|
Back to top |
|
|
bandiger Franchise Player
Joined: 02 Apr 2014 Posts: 12555
|
Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 10:41 am Post subject: |
|
|
At least 3 years to get back playoff contention, that freaking Kobe contract delayed it by several years |
|
Back to top |
|
|
venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144432 Location: The Gold Coast
|
Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 10:44 am Post subject: |
|
|
yinoma2001 wrote: | venturalakersfan wrote: | I think that by year 5 of this rebuild (2019) we will be contending for the Western Conference championship. |
I was a teenager in LA during the 1990s, and wasn't as much into the Lakers at the time. I'd love your insight into the 1990s Lakers. The progression made is starkly different than us right now. I'd argue that we are at ground zero in terms of the 1990s rebuild as we only have Clarkson to show for it at this point (due to Randle's injury). I hope we get a top 5 pick and some free agents, then we can start the rebuild in earnest.
I'm not sure I see a cataclysmic move like 1996-97 when the Lakers got Shaq, Kobe, Fisher in one off season. |
A deal like the one that got Shaq would be impossible now. I actually enjoyed that period of time, I watched every game and loved seeing the draft picks and FA signings develop. Just as I will enjoy next season for the same reason. West was all about adding talent regardless of position. One of my favorites was Anthony Peeler, I seem to have a soft spot for players from Missouri. I hated to see him get traded, but when the payoff was Shaq, I had no issues with it. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
|
Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 10:46 am Post subject: |
|
|
That 1994-95 team was fun. I really like EJones a lot growing up. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
|
Back to top |
|
|
KobeRe-Loaded Franchise Player
Joined: 09 Dec 2003 Posts: 14944
|
Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 10:46 am Post subject: |
|
|
yinoma2001 wrote: | What is amazing is that during the 1990s rebuild, the Lakers only missed the playoffs once, and barely. |
I think you are I are similar in age, I got into basketball around 1987 so I was spoiled right off the bat.
The early 90s teams that snuck into the playoffs had steady veteran leaders e.g. Worthy, Green, Scott, Vlade - post Magic
Then in the mid 90s, it was the Lakeshow period lead by some vets .. Vlade, Elden, Ceballos, and youngsters Van Smack, Peeler, Christie and soon Eddie Jones.
It's always been a mix of youngster and vets plus a dash of luck which happened in 1996. _________________ #11/08/16 America became GREAT again
#Avatar-gate |
|
Back to top |
|
|
KobeRe-Loaded Franchise Player
Joined: 09 Dec 2003 Posts: 14944
|
Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 10:47 am Post subject: |
|
|
yinoma2001 wrote: | That 1994-95 team was fun. I really like EJones a lot growing up. |
When I say EDDIE .. you say JONES
Eddie ... JONES
Eddie .. JONES _________________ #11/08/16 America became GREAT again
#Avatar-gate |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Lakers#1Team Retired Number
Joined: 24 Jun 2005 Posts: 36360 Location: Nomad
|
Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 10:48 am Post subject: |
|
|
IMO the Lakers are not trying to emulate some blueprint from the past. Although, who knows, maybe their end game is to maneuver their draft picks and youngsters to gain a couple super stars. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
greenfrog Retired Number
Joined: 02 Jan 2011 Posts: 36081 Location: 502 Bad Gateway
|
Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 10:48 am Post subject: |
|
|
There was no particular blueprint. West was kept in constant limbo because of Magic's uncertain situation. He just did the best he could every season to keep the engine warm.
Last edited by greenfrog on Thu Apr 23, 2015 10:49 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
Back to top |
|
|
yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
|
Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 10:49 am Post subject: |
|
|
greenfrog wrote: | There was no particular blueprint. West was kept in constant limbo because of Magic's uncertain situation. |
I hope that's not something that will haunt Mitch with Kobe. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Throwback96 Rookie
Joined: 23 Apr 2015 Posts: 13
|
Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 10:49 am Post subject: |
|
|
Due to the somewhat drastic change in the CBA, the present mind state of players i.e. obvious fears about their legacy thus forming super teams (at least superstars) I think we'll see a combination of old school growth by the draft combined with clever manipulation of the salary cap system to aquire free agents and make trades. I think it's hard to ignore that we can no longer just poach other teams superstars with large pay days instead we have to display a solid foundation of youth with great potential while also accepting the fact that we'll have to take some risks and make sacrifices that may be unpopular amongst fans but serve a greater long term good. Because of this I fully expect some unpopular decisions come draft and free agency.
I also think this will be the first summer where Mitch will be able to apply his new approach. I say that because this is the first year we have cap space, a top draft pick (multiple picks actually) and young talent already on the roster
Bottom line I think the future is pretty briight. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
|
Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 10:50 am Post subject: |
|
|
Throwback96 wrote: | Due to the somewhat drastic change in the CBA, the present mind state of players i.e. obvious fears about their legacy thus forming super teams (at least superstars) I think we'll see a combination of old school growth by the draft combined with clever manipulation of the salary cap system to aquire free agents and make trades. I think it's hard to ignore that we can no longer just poach other teams superstars with large pay days instead we have to display a solid foundation of youth with great potential while also accepting the fact that we'll have to take some risks and make sacrifices that may be unpopular amongst fans but serve a greater long term good. Because of this I fully expect some unpopular decisions come draft and free agency.
I also think this will be the first summer where Mitch will be able to apply his new approach. I say that because this is the first year we have cap space, a top draft pick (multiple picks actually) and young talent already on the roster
Bottom line I think the future is pretty briight. |
Well technically, we had a max slot plus last season and a 7th pick. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
|
Back to top |
|
|
MIMLaker Franchise Player
Joined: 18 Jul 2001 Posts: 10015 Location: Los Angeles/ Alhambra, CA
|
Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 10:52 am Post subject: |
|
|
The blueprint was simple, in theory, albeit ahrd to pull off:
(1) Draft solid, even if not "STAR" players in the 1st round.
(2) Draft aggressive, hungry players in the 2nd round.
(3) Sign mid-level vets to reasonable contracts that can be dumped for space or combined to get talent.
(4) Make the team young and competitive so that big FAs will eventually want to sign here.
By relying so much on home-run signings (4), we squandered our chances at (3). |
|
Back to top |
|
|
greenfrog Retired Number
Joined: 02 Jan 2011 Posts: 36081 Location: 502 Bad Gateway
|
Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 11:00 am Post subject: |
|
|
MIMLaker wrote: | The blueprint was simple, in theory, albeit ahrd to pull off:
(1) Draft solid, even if not "STAR" players in the 1st round.
(2) Draft aggressive, hungry players in the 2nd round.
(3) Sign mid-level vets to reasonable contracts that can be dumped for space or combined to get talent.
(4) Make the team young and competitive so that big FAs will eventually want to sign here.
By relying so much on home-run signings (4), we squandered our chances at (3). |
They tried to get Barkley and Hakeem IIRC. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Throwback96 Rookie
Joined: 23 Apr 2015 Posts: 13
|
Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 11:01 am Post subject: |
|
|
yinoma2001 wrote: | Throwback96 wrote: | Due to the somewhat drastic change in the CBA, the present mind state of players i.e. obvious fears about their legacy thus forming super teams (at least superstars) I think we'll see a combination of old school growth by the draft combined with clever manipulation of the salary cap system to aquire free agents and make trades. I think it's hard to ignore that we can no longer just poach other teams superstars with large pay days instead we have to display a solid foundation of youth with great potential while also accepting the fact that we'll have to take some risks and make sacrifices that may be unpopular amongst fans but serve a greater long term good. Because of this I fully expect some unpopular decisions come draft and free agency.
I also think this will be the first summer where Mitch will be able to apply his new approach. I say that because this is the first year we have cap space, a top draft pick (multiple picks actually) and young talent already on the roster
Bottom line I think the future is pretty briight. |
Well technically, we had a max slot plus last season and a 7th pick. |
True but a #7 pick pales in comparison to a top 3 pick. Plus we lacked young talent already on the roster. Also our cap space was still restricted to superstar players or bust. I think Mitch has moved beyond that thinking. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
KobeRe-Loaded Franchise Player
Joined: 09 Dec 2003 Posts: 14944
|
Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 11:02 am Post subject: |
|
|
greenfrog wrote: | MIMLaker wrote: | The blueprint was simple, in theory, albeit ahrd to pull off:
(1) Draft solid, even if not "STAR" players in the 1st round.
(2) Draft aggressive, hungry players in the 2nd round.
(3) Sign mid-level vets to reasonable contracts that can be dumped for space or combined to get talent.
(4) Make the team young and competitive so that big FAs will eventually want to sign here.
By relying so much on home-run signings (4), we squandered our chances at (3). |
They tried to get Barkley and Hakeem IIRC. |
They DID!!! I remember 1990/91 it was the rumored Worthy/AC Green/Scott and picks for Hakeem or Akeem
Then Barkley I think was just Worthy primarily. _________________ #11/08/16 America became GREAT again
#Avatar-gate |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Dave20 Franchise Player
Joined: 15 Jun 2013 Posts: 11333
|
Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 11:08 am Post subject: |
|
|
We can't truly rebuild until Kobe retires. His contract is still a huge problem. I know he only has one year left but we could have had a opportunity to sign two max players this summer. We have some good young players with Randle and Clarkson, but I don't think we will be good until Kobe retires. Stars aren't going to come here until he's gone. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
KobeRe-Loaded Franchise Player
Joined: 09 Dec 2003 Posts: 14944
|
Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 11:14 am Post subject: |
|
|
Dave20 wrote: | We can't truly rebuild until Kobe retires. His contract is still a huge problem. I know he only has one year left but we could have had a opportunity to sign two max players this summer. We have some good young players with Randle and Clarkson, but I don't think we will be good until Kobe retires. Stars aren't going to come here until he's gone. |
Well you can start picking up pieces for this "Future Star" *cough* RWB! _________________ #11/08/16 America became GREAT again
#Avatar-gate |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Dave20 Franchise Player
Joined: 15 Jun 2013 Posts: 11333
|
Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 11:24 am Post subject: |
|
|
Westbrook is definitely a possibility if Durant leave, but he seems to be more Duncan then Lebron. I just don't think stars want to play with Kobe at his age and Iso ball. I could see them signing a defensive big, but as long as Kobe is around no stars will come here. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
|
Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 11:24 am Post subject: |
|
|
Dave20 wrote: | Westbrook is definitely a possibility if Durant leave, but he seems to be more Duncan then Lebron. I just don't think stars want to play with Kobe at his age and Iso ball. I could see them signing a defensive big, but as long as Kobe is around no stars will come here. |
If we don't trade for Russ, he'll be what, 29 in 2017? _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Dave20 Franchise Player
Joined: 15 Jun 2013 Posts: 11333
|
Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 11:31 am Post subject: |
|
|
yinoma2001 wrote: | Dave20 wrote: | Westbrook is definitely a possibility if Durant leave, but he seems to be more Duncan then Lebron. I just don't think stars want to play with Kobe at his age and Iso ball. I could see them signing a defensive big, but as long as Kobe is around no stars will come here. |
If we don't trade for Russ, he'll be what, 29 in 2017? | Yeah, and Clarkson will be just entering his prime at 25. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|