So Glad Howard Left.
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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2015 6:31 am    Post subject: So Glad Howard Left.

Every time this guy's team is down by a big margin it seems like he bails on them. Howard did with us in his final game and when they were getting plumated by 40 last night he did it again. The dude has no heart, no leadership, and still hasn't developed a post game. His defense is nowhere near what it was either. You just don't do that. You have to be a man and be a leader and gut it out. Just taking the easy way out and quitting on your team is so pathetic. Dude is gutless. Can't stand him.

We would've been so screwed had Howard stayed. Just look where Houston is now. Basically a tread mill team and the only reason they're even still playing is they faced a banged up Dallas team. We would've had all that money tied up to an aging Kobe and Dwight and likely no Randle or Clarkson or a shot at a lottery pick this season. Future would've gone from looking somewhat promising to very, very bleak.
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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2015 6:35 am    Post subject:

I agree, glad he's not here. But, not at all regretful that we traded for him. It would have been us instead of Philly paying Bynum his retirement fund.
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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2015 6:38 am    Post subject:

Just wish we could have somehow sign & traded him for some expiring contracts and a few additional draft picks.

Other than that, I am glad Dwight is gone.
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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2015 6:39 am    Post subject:

Then why did we trade for him?

Why did the FO do that ridiculous #stay campaign.

I'd love to think that it was a grand master plan to trade for Dwight, but knowing we "really didn't want to keep him b/c we wanted to eventually tank and not keep Kobe/Dwight core."

Then soon thereafter the team locked up Kobe on a huge extension.

So if the FO had its wishes, we may have had a Kobe/Dwight/Melo (?) team this summer.

I guess we were fortunate that it didn't happen.
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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2015 6:56 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Then why did we trade for him?

Why did the FO do that ridiculous #stay campaign.

I'd love to think that it was a grand master plan to trade for Dwight, but knowing we "really didn't want to keep him b/c we wanted to eventually tank and not keep Kobe/Dwight core."

Then soon thereafter the team locked up Kobe on a huge extension.

So if the FO had its wishes, we may have had a Kobe/Dwight/Melo (?) team this summer.

I guess we were fortunate that it didn't happen.


It was a great trade at the time, it just didn't work out as planned.
A lineup of Nash-Kobe-Gasol-Howard was one that was expected to compete for the title. After Nash's injury, and the realization that Howard just wouldn't mesh here with Kobe because he lacks any minute mental toughness, they realized it wouldn't work in the long run.
That campaign was by Jeannie, right? Not sure if she even knew the extent of Howard's unhappiness here as maybe Mitch & Jim did.

Either way, let's cheer to the fact that he's gone.
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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2015 6:59 am    Post subject:

55 wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Then why did we trade for him?

Why did the FO do that ridiculous #stay campaign.

I'd love to think that it was a grand master plan to trade for Dwight, but knowing we "really didn't want to keep him b/c we wanted to eventually tank and not keep Kobe/Dwight core."

Then soon thereafter the team locked up Kobe on a huge extension.

So if the FO had its wishes, we may have had a Kobe/Dwight/Melo (?) team this summer.

I guess we were fortunate that it didn't happen.


It was a great trade at the time, it just didn't work out as planned.
A lineup of Nash-Kobe-Gasol-Howard was one that was expected to compete for the title. After Nash's injury, and the realization that Howard just wouldn't mesh here with Kobe because he lacks any minute mental toughness, they realized it wouldn't work in the long run.
That campaign was by Jeannie, right? Not sure if she even knew the extent of Howard's unhappiness here as maybe Mitch & Jim did.

Either way, let's cheer to the fact that he's gone.


Oh I'll be the first to admit that the Howard/Nash pickup looked great at the time.

I just don't get the revisionist/invisible hand comments sometimes about how has "worked to perfection," etc. We've suffered 2 of the worst Lakers seasons consecutively so we're actually getting off the floor after being knocked out.
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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2015 7:01 am    Post subject:

Agreed. A very good trade at the time.

I do believe the Lakers factored in the possibility he wouldn't stay. Even us Laker message boarders knew of Dwight's fickleness.

I think the general thought process was, ok, we trade a Bynum with some injury concerns for a sure thing in Dwight. If he stays, he's a building block (and I do believe he can be a building block, just not THE building blocK). If he goes, we start over, clean slate and work on a true rebuild.

Now I do wonder, if they had the benefit of knowing about the injury proneness in this late part of Kobe's career, would they still have done it or would they have started the reboot earlier?
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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2015 7:10 am    Post subject:

We now have the benefit of hindsight, but when the Laks went after Howard, he was only one year removed from his great seasons, a year of injury at that. There was a reasonable belief he would return to that greatness.

Now, four years removed, the odds of him returning to his former greatness is much less.

I wish the Laks had a crystal ball and could see the future of Howard, Nash and even Kobe, so that rather than build for one last hurrah, they kept their picks to augment the rebuilding that was inevitable. But I, as with the vast majority of Lakers' fans, was more than agreeable with all the moves.

Also, as I said last year seeing his play in Houston, I don't believe he is worthy of a max salary--at least from a competitive standpoint of what he gives a team for what he earns
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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2015 7:17 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Then why did we trade for him?

Why did the FO do that ridiculous #stay campaign.

I'd love to think that it was a grand master plan to trade for Dwight, but knowing we "really didn't want to keep him b/c we wanted to eventually tank and not keep Kobe/Dwight core."

Then soon thereafter the team locked up Kobe on a huge extension.

So if the FO had its wishes, we may have had a Kobe/Dwight/Melo (?) team this summer.

I guess we were fortunate that it didn't happen.

I think what OP is saying is that he's glad Dwight decided to leave, and that we dodged a bullet (and I whole heartedly agree). Not that the FO did a great thing in not re-signing him, because lord knows they tried.

And I don't think we did anything all that wrong with regards to the whole Dwight thing. Trading Bynum was the right decision at the time and with hindsight. Obviously it would have been nice to get something for Dwight, but at the deadline we were still trying to win now, and whatever package we could've gotten for him wouldn't have been conducive to that. People forget that we went 28-12 to end the year before Kobe went down -- IMO we could've given SAS a run for their money if Kobe was healthy. That team was playing great and Kobe was balling out of his mind.

As far as doing a S&T, we probably tried, but Dwight would've had to be ok with that in order for it to happen, and he had no reason to want that. So it is what it is, just glad he's gone now. Because we would've been royally screwed with Kobe's health the way it is.
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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2015 7:22 am    Post subject:

AY2043 wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Then why did we trade for him?

Why did the FO do that ridiculous #stay campaign.

I'd love to think that it was a grand master plan to trade for Dwight, but knowing we "really didn't want to keep him b/c we wanted to eventually tank and not keep Kobe/Dwight core."

Then soon thereafter the team locked up Kobe on a huge extension.

So if the FO had its wishes, we may have had a Kobe/Dwight/Melo (?) team this summer.

I guess we were fortunate that it didn't happen.

I think what OP is saying is that he's glad Dwight decided to leave, and that we dodged a bullet (and I whole heartedly agree). Not that the FO did a great thing in not re-signing him, because lord knows they tried.

And I don't think we did anything all that wrong with regards to the whole Dwight thing. Trading Bynum was the right decision at the time and with hindsight. Obviously it would have been nice to get something for Dwight, but at the deadline we were still trying to win now, and whatever package we could've gotten for him wouldn't have been conducive to that. People forget that we went 28-12 to end the year before Kobe went down -- IMO we could've given SAS a run for their money if Kobe was healthy. That team was playing great and Kobe was balling out of his mind.

As far as doing a S&T, we probably tried, but Dwight would've had to be ok with that in order for it to happen, and he had no reason to want that. So it is what it is, just glad he's gone now. Because we would've been royally screwed with Kobe's health the way it is.


Sure, if the sentiment is, glad it didn't work out the way the team wanted it to, then I agree.

But the fact we traded for Dwight, and watched him leave (after a campaign to keep him) signaled the beginning of the current misery IMO.
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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2015 7:26 am    Post subject:

Agreed - Dwight lacks the heart of a champion. That was easy for Kobe to see, Kobe rode Dwight mercilessly, and Dwight wasn't man enough to take it, so he left.
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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2015 7:26 am    Post subject:

Misery started when the league veto'd the chris paul trade. 29 teams couldnt stop the Lakers for decades, all it took was Napoleon to swing his wand and kill the Lakers run of dominance the last decade.
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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2015 7:44 am    Post subject:

He's good, but never deserved the attention he got during those two "Decision" years. Not even close.
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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2015 7:55 am    Post subject:

I was going to post this last night as well.

What a moron!! No sense and no control of his emotions during the most important games of his career.

Good g-d I'm glad he's gone.

Just wish we could have gotten an assist or two when he left lolol
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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2015 8:29 am    Post subject:

The ideal outcome would've been that we traded him before the deadline that year.
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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2015 8:38 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Then why did we trade for him?

Why did the FO do that ridiculous #stay campaign.

I'd love to think that it was a grand master plan to trade for Dwight, but knowing we "really didn't want to keep him b/c we wanted to eventually tank and not keep Kobe/Dwight core."

Then soon thereafter the team locked up Kobe on a huge extension.

So if the FO had its wishes, we may have had a Kobe/Dwight/Melo (?) team this summer.

I guess we were fortunate that it didn't happen.


It can't be argued that LA preferred Dwight leave, though it's also fair to say that there were mixed emotions on the subject in the organization (then again, the Magic weren't sure they wanted to keep Shaq either). The #Stay campaign was what, two billboards? Hardly a ticker-tape parade. Never got the consternation on the subject. LA knew Dwight was most likely gone and couldn't let it look like it was b/c they didn't try.

Had Melo come, Pau likely stays and the core would have been Bryant, Melo, Pau, Randle and (surprise) Clarkson. If guys stay healthy that team makes the playoffs. It's not Bryant and Shaq in their early 20s, but it wasn't a bad plan. Melo himself said LA made an extremely compelling case. Though that team likely doesn't win a ring, you're set up pretty well with a star forward and the cap room to replace Bryant and Pau in '16 and '17 to go with a rep of taking care of your stars (see Contract-Magic, Contract-Worthy, Extension-Kobe). Conversely, it's going to be interesting to see what Houston does with Dwight next offseason. I'm sure he thinks he'll opt-out and get another max payday under the new TV deal. We'll see.

Assuming LA ends up with a top 5 pick this year, a base of Randle, Clarkson, the pick, max cap room for three straight off seasons, plus the inexpensive young talent that has also been added (Black, Kelly, #27, #34, maybe Jabari as a shooter) and you have essentially the p.e.r.f.e.c.t. setup for making a run before the decade is over.
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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2015 8:49 am    Post subject:

Agreed good riddance
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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2015 9:22 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Then why did we trade for him?

Why did the FO do that ridiculous #stay campaign.

I'd love to think that it was a grand master plan to trade for Dwight, but knowing we "really didn't want to keep him b/c we wanted to eventually tank and not keep Kobe/Dwight core."

Then soon thereafter the team locked up Kobe on a huge extension.

So if the FO had its wishes, we may have had a Kobe/Dwight/Melo (?) team this summer.

I guess we were fortunate that it didn't happen.


I guess sometimes it is better to be lucky than to be good.

the basketball Gods were looking out for us.
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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2015 9:42 am    Post subject:

That summer my feeling was the best course of action would be to sign him so you could trade him. 2nd choice was let him walk. Distant 3rd option would be to keep him long term. I feel the same way today.
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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2015 9:46 am    Post subject:

ocho wrote:
That summer my feeling was the best course of action would be to sign him so you could trade him. 2nd choice was let him walk. Distant 3rd option would be to keep him long term. I feel the same way today.


That one lone season, it just felt that team would never come together. Dwight started off hurt, then Nash was hurt, then Kobe got hurt at the end of the season. Maybe they would not have been friends, but I just wish we could have had 1 season together where they were relatively healthy. Obviously, from Dwight's standpoint, you had Kobe with a torn Achilles and he probably thought that the Lakers would be a sinking ship. In a sense he was right, but the boat jumped off to isn't exactly tearing up the postseason seas.
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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2015 10:01 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
ocho wrote:
That summer my feeling was the best course of action would be to sign him so you could trade him. 2nd choice was let him walk. Distant 3rd option would be to keep him long term. I feel the same way today.


That one lone season, it just felt that team would never come together. Dwight started off hurt, then Nash was hurt, then Kobe got hurt at the end of the season. Maybe they would not have been friends, but I just wish we could have had 1 season together where they were relatively healthy. Obviously, from Dwight's standpoint, you had Kobe with a torn Achilles and he probably thought that the Lakers would be a sinking ship. In a sense he was right, but the boat jumped off to isn't exactly tearing up the postseason seas.


Dwight saw better immediate prospects in Houston and jumped. Can't blame him for that. Houston was a perfect situation for his personality. I don't think we were winning a title with him though, even if Kobe had stayed healthy. The last two seasons he has played as well as he is capable of and it didn't amount to much.
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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2015 11:49 am    Post subject:

http://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=AwrTcXa4B1FVHUkAEQajzbkF;_ylu=X3oDMTBpcGszamw0BHNlYwNmcC1pbWcEc2xrA2ltZw--/RV=2/RE=1431402552/RO=11/RU=http%3a%2f%2f3.bp.blogspot.com%2f-RbW3T0C9O1U%2fUfxR_OKemAI%2fAAAAAAABJVA%2fAvWduo5olNM%2fs1600%2fStay%2bD12%2bLakers%2bbillboard.jpg/RK=0/RS=qKv5fo6_OAt3pOtOzRSL8TMvjYM-
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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2015 11:54 am    Post subject:

ribeye wrote:
We now have the benefit of hindsight, but when the Laks went after Howard, he was only one year removed from his great seasons, a year of injury at that. There was a reasonable belief he would return to that greatness.

Now, four years removed, the odds of him returning to his former greatness is much less.

I wish the Laks had a crystal ball and could see the future of Howard, Nash and even Kobe, so that rather than build for one last hurrah, they kept their picks to augment the rebuilding that was inevitable. But I, as with the vast majority of Lakers' fans, was more than agreeable with all the moves.

Also, as I said last year seeing his play in Houston, I don't believe he is worthy of a max salary--at least from a competitive standpoint of what he gives a team for what he earns


Yes. But I was pretty worried about Dwight's personality like others. I trusted Mitch to see the leader we have not seen so I was up for getting Dwight through the transitive property. I also believed that Nash and Kobe would lead and veteranmold Dwight and tamp out the occasions when his immaturity arose in the locker room and on the floor. I even thought they might get him to learn leadership, since again I assumed Mitch saw that potential in him, i.e. mental potential to actually be The Man eventually. And obviously he had and has still physical gifts. So I was in favor with those assumptions of Mitch's assessment ability and FO generally, plus a healthy lineup. So I was reluctantly on board, though giving up the picks for Nash made me additionally queasy. I remembered him lying on his back during games as a Sun. To Dwight's credit, but probably also our ultimate detriment that season, he came back sooner and played than I expected. But his lack of what seems to be maturity and maybe wisdom should have given everyone pause, and maybe it did but proceeded anyway.

They rolled the dice after getting Sterned which was by far the more severe blow. Didn't work out. Plus it was in a bizarro transition time.
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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2015 12:34 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
ocho wrote:
That summer my feeling was the best course of action would be to sign him so you could trade him. 2nd choice was let him walk. Distant 3rd option would be to keep him long term. I feel the same way today.


That one lone season, it just felt that team would never come together. Dwight started off hurt, then Nash was hurt, then Kobe got hurt at the end of the season. Maybe they would not have been friends, but I just wish we could have had 1 season together where they were relatively healthy. Obviously, from Dwight's standpoint, you had Kobe with a torn Achilles and he probably thought that the Lakers would be a sinking ship. In a sense he was right, but the boat jumped off to isn't exactly tearing up the postseason seas.


Aside from forcing his way to GS, where could he have gone that would be having better postseason success?
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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2015 12:45 pm    Post subject:

I wouldn't mind keeping if the Lakers re-signed Howard, but definitely not for the max. He's not a super star, and he's not someone who can lead you to a championship. In my opinion, he's better off as a third option, and that's it.
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