Posted: Fri May 15, 2015 9:58 am Post subject: Harvard Faces Admissions Bias Complaint From Asian-Americans
Poor Candy, he might have been the victim of discrimination:
Quote:
A coalition of more than 60 Asian-American groups filed a federal discrimination complaint against Harvard University, claiming racial bias in undergraduate admissions.
Asian-American students with almost perfect college entrance-exam scores, top 1 percent grade-point averages, academic awards and leadership positions are more likely to be rejected than similar applicants of other races, according to their administrative complaint, filed Friday with the U.S. Education Department’s Office for Civil Rights. Harvard denies any discrimination.
Their complaint, also filed with the U.S. Justice Department’s Civil Rights Division, reflects longstanding concern among academically high-performing Asian-Americans that they are held to a higher admissions standard at elite U.S. colleges. While they represent about 6 percent of the U.S. population and 21 percent of students admitted to Harvard’s freshman class this fall, they say they are being subjected to the kind of quotas that kept many Jews out of the same institutions in the first half of the 20th century.
Joined: 15 Nov 2006 Posts: 19864 Location: Prarie & Manchester, high above the western sideline
Posted: Fri May 15, 2015 12:46 pm Post subject:
I'm Asian and ok with this, especially if it means that the weaker applications get sifted out and sorted into Cornell. _________________ http://chickhearn.ytmnd.com/
Joined: 02 May 2005 Posts: 90306 Location: Formerly Known As 24
Posted: Fri May 15, 2015 4:28 pm Post subject:
If I have this correct, Asian students are being accepted to Harvard at a rate three and a half times their percentage of the population, and they are claiming discrimination?
If I have this correct, Asian students are being accepted to Harvard at a rate three and a half times their percentage of the population, and they are claiming discrimination?
Yes. And it's true.
The question really is if one believes that it's acceptable discrimination.
If I have this correct, Asian students are being accepted to Harvard at a rate three and a half times their percentage of the population, and they are claiming discrimination?
If you deny admission to someone based on race, that is racial discrimination.
The lawsuit though, I believe, is contending that Harvard is employing racial quotas and denying people, solely on race, in order to meet those quotas. That behavior would be considered a violation of a Supreme Court case that stipulated colleges should only factor in race as a last resort. In short, the claim is that the barrier to even be considered is set higher for asians. That's not supposed to happen.
The admission rate for asians at Harvard is lower than it was 20 years ago, despite the fact that the number of qualified asian applicants has doubled.
As an aside, I'm not sure why acceptance rates would need to mirror population. If anything, it should align with the racial makeup of the pool of qualified applicants, not the population at large. (Though my real personal opinion is race-based policies make little sense and that we should focus on socio-ecnomic policies instead).
Joined: 13 Jan 2002 Posts: 7922 Location: Lake Forest
Posted: Fri May 15, 2015 9:55 pm Post subject:
If we're going to hold companies that employ degreed employees to a racial diversity standard than the schools need to drop the bar enough to have a racially diverse product.
If we're going to hold companies that employ degreed employees to a racial diversity standard than the schools need to drop the bar enough to have a racially diverse product.
Well, I hope we wouldn't do that. We need to fix the funnel at the top.
Joined: 02 May 2005 Posts: 90306 Location: Formerly Known As 24
Posted: Fri May 15, 2015 10:52 pm Post subject:
rwongega wrote:
My cousin (half African, half Asian) had an anecdote about this. White people are moderately (bleep) for college admissions but golden in the real world. Underrepresented minorities are golden for college admissions but (bleep) in the real world. Asians are just plain (bleep).
I'm curious how the ethnicity with the highest educational levels and highest median incomes in the US are screwed.
My cousin (half African, half Asian) had an anecdote about this. White people are moderately (bleep) for college admissions but golden in the real world. Underrepresented minorities are golden for college admissions but (bleep) in the real world. Asians are just plain (bleep).
I'm curious how the ethnicity with the highest educational levels and highest median incomes in the US are screwed.
In general, they also tend to not move into higher levels of management compared to their numbers and qualifications.
They aren't "screwed". They are just treated unfairly due to widely accepted discrimination. Not too different from Jews a few decades back.
On one hand it's hard to feel sorry for a group that generally does well for themselves. On the other hand, it's still effed up if you believe in things like merit and the idea of not judging based on race.
Joined: 20 Jul 2005 Posts: 20510 Location: UCLA -> NY
Posted: Sat May 16, 2015 12:02 am Post subject:
24 wrote:
rwongega wrote:
My cousin (half African, half Asian) had an anecdote about this. White people are moderately (bleep) for college admissions but golden in the real world. Underrepresented minorities are golden for college admissions but (bleep) in the real world. Asians are just plain (bleep).
I'm curious how the ethnicity with the highest educational levels and highest median incomes in the US are screwed.
You're overlooking the presence of a glass ceiling, or bamboo ceiling as some call it. Asians will more likely than not enter white-collar professions, which drive up the median income and educational levels, but won't be found in higher level positions which their performance and backgrounds should qualify for. You'd essentially be a low-level, low-mobility drone, higher paid than a blue collar worker but not near satisfactory for the work and effort put in. Sure, $60k sounds nice, but when you've had to expend more effort and time than others just to get there, with little promise of anything better, is that really fair? _________________ http://media.giphy.com/media/zNyBPu5hEFpu/giphy.gif http://bartsblackboard.com/files/2009/11/The-Simpsons-05x18-Burns-Heir.jpg
My cousin (half African, half Asian) had an anecdote about this. White people are moderately (bleep) for college admissions but golden in the real world. Underrepresented minorities are golden for college admissions but (bleep) in the real world. Asians are just plain (bleep).
I'm curious how the ethnicity with the highest educational levels and highest median incomes in the US are screwed.
It depends on the education level. At the higher levels,White incomes are the highest, with asian closely trailing. Hispanic are 2nd to last and African American are at the bottom, $13,000 less than white incomes.
The cousins comments make the most sense in context of black and hispanic applicants/employees. (I guess he is saying they get both the hard college admissions standards, and a harder time finding suitable employment? True to a small extent but incomes for Asian Americans are still pretty high.)
Med school admissions is a good example. Take 2 students with a 3.5 GPA and a 28 MCAT score, but one is asian, and one is african american. The Asian student is looking at an acceptance rate of 22.5% while the African American student is looking at an acceptance rate of 81.0%. Acceptance rates for white and hispanic students with these stats are 33.2% and 64.1% respectively.
I thought this is what people wanted with affirmative action. No?
where's the AA in this? Asians are not being told NO because there are more blacks/hispanics at these schools then asians. They are being told NO because this school would at least like to show some signs of diversity. It's not about being fair purely based on grades and scores. Sorry applicants. you know this already. So why would you complain about it?
And those who talk about a lack of fairness. Just remember, it can't be fair for you before its fair for blacks, then hispanics, so forth and so on, in that order. Since that's the level of discrimination you see in America when it comes to quality of education from elementary school to the university level, to the workplace.
What i'm saying is, everyone has a gripe. So which gripe's need to be addressed first are the people who have been treated the most unfair for the longest period of time. And we know who those people are. So in essence to my asian american brethren...get in line. We're all knocking on ringfingers door requesting a fairer situation.
Gotta mix a few dummies into the pot to keep the curves/diversity quotas set properly.
Rumor has it they have a maximum allowable decibel level for library cellphone chatter. Knowing Harvard, this figure was no doubt the result of an ad hoc study to determine the point at which ambient sound levels degrade the academic performance of library users by one grade level. Asians are so screwed under this model. _________________ GOAT MAGIC REEL SEDALE TRIBUTE EDDIE DONX!
I thought this is what people wanted with affirmative action. No?
where's the AA in this? Asians are not being told NO because there are more blacks/hispanics at these schools then asians. They are being told NO because this school would at least like to show some signs of diversity. It's not about being fair purely based on grades and scores. Sorry applicants. you know this already. So why would you complain about it?
And those who talk about a lack of fairness. Just remember, it can't be fair for you before its fair for blacks, then hispanics, so forth and so on, in that order. Since that's the level of discrimination you see in America when it comes to quality of education from elementary school to the university level, to the workplace.
What i'm saying is, everyone has a gripe. So which gripe's need to be addressed first are the people who have been treated the most unfair for the longest period of time. And we know who those people are. So in essence to my asian american brethren...get in line. We're all knocking on ringfingers door requesting a fairer situation.
The bolded is why the lawsuit is being filed. The claim is that Harvard has racial quotas and it is denying applicants, based on race which, per a Supreme Court ruling, is prohibited. The ruling stated that universities should consider race neutral policies first, not race first.
Treated the most unfair? How are you going to measure that exactly? What factor of unfairness was the internment of Japanese Americans (and, shall all asians get 'credit' for that unfairness?) What about the Chinese Exclusion Act, how unfair was that (and was it more unfair than the internment?). I don't think the point of AA was to assess level
I thought the point of AA is to assist those with less access, to have a greater opportunity for access. At current, AA presumes accessibility is a function of race. But I disagree. I personally believe it is more a function of wealth, or lack thereof. I don't believe the children of black celebrities, for instance, are at a greater disadvantage than non-black children living in poverty.
You have two applicants with comparable grades. One is Malia Obama and the other is a hispanic girl from a low income area. Who should get in and why? I contend it should be the hispanic girl from the low income area. Malia is going to have opportunities at many, many other fine institutions.
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