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ringfinger Retired Number
Joined: 08 Oct 2013 Posts: 29418
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Posted: Fri May 22, 2015 5:50 am Post subject: If Clarkson was a bust, would you still draft Okafor/Towns? |
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Was listening to the radio yesterday and Max and Marcellus was on and they were going through all kinds of draft scenarios for the Lakers. I thought Max brought up an interesting point in that we might be able to sign a big and draft a small. I'm a believer in Clarkson, but, you just never know.
So, here's my question for you guys. Is Okafor/Towns the consensus pick for us because of Clarkson's emergence? Or would you draft one of those two guys regardless?
If Clarkson was a "bust" let's say (or you can assume we just didn't even have him at all), how would your draft selection change, if at all? Assume the more desirable of Okafor/Towns for you was drafted by MIN.
There's always the option of going after a Marc Gasol, DeAndre Jordan or Tyson Chandler to shore up the front court with Randall and drafting D'Angelo Russell instead.
I'm just curious if Okafor is the consensus #2 assuming MIN drafts KAT, is that because he is the BPA or because we feel we have a need met at the PG spot in Clarkson? |
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Chronicle Retired Number
Joined: 21 Jul 2012 Posts: 31935 Location: Manhattan
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Posted: Fri May 22, 2015 5:53 am Post subject: |
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I don't think players outside of the lottery can be called busts. It's a bust because it was a wasted lotto pick.
That being said, I see Okafor and Towns on a different tier than all the other players. Russell is an LG favorite, but I would easily take Cauley-Stein over him, let alone Okafor/Towns.
And NOT drafting a big because you MAY be able to sign a big in FA is a really stupid decision. It is very much a possibility that the bigs we target stay with their teams or go to teams other than the Lakers. We shouldn't take such a risk. _________________ Kobe
Last edited by Chronicle on Fri May 22, 2015 5:55 am; edited 1 time in total |
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LandsbergerRules Franchise Player
Joined: 29 Aug 2004 Posts: 11197 Location: The Other Perspective
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Posted: Fri May 22, 2015 5:53 am Post subject: |
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BPA at the highest levels, regardless of needs. _________________ "Chick lived and breathed Lakers basketball…but he was also fair and objective and called every game the way it was played."
-from Chick: His Unpublished Memoirs and the Memories of Those Who Knew Him |
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LakerDynasty6.0 Star Player
Joined: 12 Jan 2009 Posts: 4656
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Posted: Fri May 22, 2015 5:54 am Post subject: |
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forgetting clarkson for a moment, imho we draft the "other" big, because i see them both (bigs) better suited for the Lakers team needs (and cap structure) than Russell.
I don't quite know enough about Mudiay _________________ Starting Lakers Dynasty6.0! NOW!!
------
....." each year in Lakerland is marked by four seasons: Kobe’s Mad at His Teammates; Kobe’s Shooting Too Much; Kobe Leads the Victory Parade; Kobe Receives His Championship Ring." |
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activeverb Retired Number
Joined: 17 Jun 2006 Posts: 37470
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Posted: Fri May 22, 2015 6:03 am Post subject: Re: If Clarkson was a bust, would you still draft Okafor/Towns? |
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ringfinger wrote: | So, here's my question for you guys. Is Okafor/Towns the consensus pick for us because of Clarkson's emergence? Or would you draft one of those two guys regardless? |
I'd say Okafor and Towns are the consensus 1 and 2 for most people, and I doubt Clarkson has any impact on our drafting strategy. |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Fri May 22, 2015 6:04 am Post subject: |
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Clarkson should not factor one iota into the current draft situation. If you like Russ, get him. Same with the other options. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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Wilkes52 Star Player
Joined: 02 Jun 2009 Posts: 2415 Location: Far from home
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Posted: Fri May 22, 2015 6:04 am Post subject: Re: If Clarkson was a bust, would you still draft Okafor/Towns? |
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ringfinger wrote: | Was listening to the radio yesterday and Max and Marcellus was on and they were going through all kinds of draft scenarios for the Lakers. I thought Max brought up an interesting point in that we might be able to sign a big and draft a small. I'm a believer in Clarkson, but, you just never know.
So, here's my question for you guys. Is Okafor/Towns the consensus pick for us because of Clarkson's emergence? Or would you draft one of those two guys regardless?
If Clarkson was a "bust" let's say (or you can assume we just didn't even have him at all), how would your draft selection change, if at all? Assume the more desirable of Okafor/Towns for you was drafted by MIN.
There's always the option of going after a Marc Gasol, DeAndre Jordan or Tyson Chandler to shore up the front court with Randall and drafting D'Angelo Russell instead.
I'm just curious if Okafor is the consensus #2 assuming MIN drafts KAT, is that because he is the BPA or because we feel we have a need met at the PG spot in Clarkson? |
We don't know how good JC actually is. Even if JC were projected to go on to enjoy only a decent if largely undistinguished ten year NBA career, it should not affect the draft pick thinking for the #2 one bit. Get the best talent you can and move on. JC looks solid enough to fill one guard slot or another for next season, no matter who one selects with the #2. If the BPA is deemed to be a PG, wing, PF-C or pure center - take him. Of course, hindsight is perfect. The Lakers need everything.
Any player who washes out quickly is a bust, BTW. There are other forms of it too, such as lottery picks who don't do real well too. |
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rockyp Starting Rotation
Joined: 01 Mar 2014 Posts: 334
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Posted: Fri May 22, 2015 6:06 am Post subject: |
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Clarkson doesn't factor regardless because we're going after Westbrook when he's available |
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pmacla Star Player
Joined: 31 Aug 2012 Posts: 7849 Location: Los Angeles, CA
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Posted: Fri May 22, 2015 6:08 am Post subject: Re: If Clarkson was a bust, would you still draft Okafor/Towns? |
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ringfinger wrote: | Was listening to the radio yesterday and Max and Marcellus was on and they were going through all kinds of draft scenarios for the Lakers. I thought Max brought up an interesting point in that we might be able to sign a big and draft a small. I'm a believer in Clarkson, but, you just never know.
So, here's my question for you guys. Is Okafor/Towns the consensus pick for us because of Clarkson's emergence? Or would you draft one of those two guys regardless?
If Clarkson was a "bust" let's say (or you can assume we just didn't even have him at all), how would your draft selection change, if at all? Assume the more desirable of Okafor/Towns for you was drafted by MIN.
There's always the option of going after a Marc Gasol, DeAndre Jordan or Tyson Chandler to shore up the front court with Randall and drafting D'Angelo Russell instead.
I'm just curious if Okafor is the consensus #2 assuming MIN drafts KAT, is that because he is the BPA or because we feel we have a need met at the PG spot in Clarkson? |
Max is a closet Knicks fan and doesnt see Philly drafting another big so he wants the Lakers to either trade #2 to Knicks or Lakers pick a G so the other big falls to the Knicks dont fall for his okie doke that he knows what he is talking and has Lakers fans best interest at heart he is talking to have Knicks best interest |
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KobeBryantCliffordBrown Star Player
Joined: 28 Apr 2008 Posts: 6429
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Posted: Fri May 22, 2015 6:11 am Post subject: |
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You draft the best player available. Period. _________________ “It took many years of vomiting up all the filth I’d been taught about myself, and half-believed, before I was able to walk on the earth as though I had a right to be here.”
― James Baldwin, Collected Essays |
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Four Decade Bandwagon Star Player
Joined: 18 Jul 2014 Posts: 8151
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Posted: Fri May 22, 2015 6:14 am Post subject: |
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IMO Okafor and Towns are the two best prospects. Not because of the Lakers need but because of their talent. Both look like they will be impact players in the League. I prefer Towns but Okafor is a close second.
Clarkson's surprise development may have an influence but not my ultimate deciding factor. I do not see Clarkson as the next PG star like Paul , Curry or Wall. Just a tough solid contributor. Hopefully an impact starter more in the role of Teague or George Hill.
I am not as enthusiastic on Russell as some. Every time I watched one of his games it seemed the other G was making the bigger impact. Some of the stats being posted on Russell's lackluster performances in the big games seems to prove the eye test.
I assume Russell and Mudiay will be good players. I am just more impressed with the two bigs. Honestly I would probably take Winslow over the PGs.
I acknowledge some of that is my own bias because I have little info on Mudiay. His highlight reels from China are not much to go on for me. |
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Truck Turner Star Player
Joined: 28 Apr 2011 Posts: 3937
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Posted: Fri May 22, 2015 6:38 am Post subject: |
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Four Decade Bandwagon wrote: | IMO Okafor and Towns are the two best prospects. Not because of the Lakers need but because of their talent. Both look like they will be impact players in the League. I prefer Towns but Okafor is a close second.
Clarkson's surprise development may have an influence but not my ultimate deciding factor. I do not see Clarkson as the next PG star like Paul , Curry or Wall. Just a tough solid contributor. Hopefully an impact starter more in the role of Teague or George Hill.
I am not as enthusiastic on Russell as some. Every time I watched one of his games it seemed the other G was making the bigger impact. Some of the stats being posted on Russell's lackluster performances in the big games seems to prove the eye test.
I assume Russell and Mudiay will be good players. I am just more impressed with the two bigs. Honestly I would probably take Winslow over the PGs.
I acknowledge some of that is my own bias because I have little info on Mudiay. His highlight reels from China are not much to go on for me. |
I swear a lot of the talk surrounding Mudaiy is similar to the talk about Dante Exum last year.
It's funny, I remember fans on this board being LIVID about Exum not falling to hte Lakers.
Just another example that the draft is a gamble no matter how deep the draft is supposed to be or how much upside a player supposedly has. |
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J.C. Smith Franchise Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2005 Posts: 12670
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Posted: Fri May 22, 2015 6:42 am Post subject: |
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Clarkson or not, its a lot harder to get a good big man than a good guard. Okafor and Towns are two top notch big men with franchise player potential. That's not to take anything from Russell, he looks like a very good prospect. But this is not a Jordan vs. Bowie and Olajuwon situation. Russel isn't that kind of athlete, and neither Okafor or Towns has has the injury history of Bowie. Good guards are easier to find than good bigs, all things being equal you take the size. |
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Lakers2015 Star Player
Joined: 16 Feb 2015 Posts: 2315
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Posted: Fri May 22, 2015 6:58 am Post subject: |
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KobeBryantCliffordBrown wrote: | You draft the best player available. Period. |
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Kava Star Player
Joined: 10 Mar 2010 Posts: 2173
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Posted: Fri May 22, 2015 7:11 am Post subject: Re: If Clarkson was a bust, would you still draft Okafor/Towns? |
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pmacla wrote: | ringfinger wrote: | Was listening to the radio yesterday and Max and Marcellus was on and they were going through all kinds of draft scenarios for the Lakers. I thought Max brought up an interesting point in that we might be able to sign a big and draft a small. I'm a believer in Clarkson, but, you just never know.
So, here's my question for you guys. Is Okafor/Towns the consensus pick for us because of Clarkson's emergence? Or would you draft one of those two guys regardless?
If Clarkson was a "bust" let's say (or you can assume we just didn't even have him at all), how would your draft selection change, if at all? Assume the more desirable of Okafor/Towns for you was drafted by MIN.
There's always the option of going after a Marc Gasol, DeAndre Jordan or Tyson Chandler to shore up the front court with Randall and drafting D'Angelo Russell instead.
I'm just curious if Okafor is the consensus #2 assuming MIN drafts KAT, is that because he is the BPA or because we feel we have a need met at the PG spot in Clarkson? |
Max is a closet Knicks fan and doesnt see Philly drafting another big so he wants the Lakers to either trade #2 to Knicks or Lakers pick a G so the other big falls to the Knicks dont fall for his okie doke that he knows what he is talking and has Lakers fans best interest at heart he is talking to have Knicks best interest |
What do you get when you mix a Knicks fan and a Clippers fan with traffic on the 405? (Insert punchline referencing anti-depressants)
Other than skilll/ability to play the game I wonder what else Mitch and Jim saw in JC that made them buy that 2nd round pick? Clarkson's got that certain 'je ne sais quoi'...that competitive gumption that you simply cannot teach. You can tell he's out there to compete. I think Randle may have that same fire.
Whomever we choose I just hope he have dat FIRE. |
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exempt Starting Rotation
Joined: 19 May 2015 Posts: 593
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Posted: Fri May 22, 2015 7:16 am Post subject: |
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yes, I think Okafor or Towns would be BPA for the Lakers |
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Omar Little Moderator
Joined: 02 May 2005 Posts: 90306 Location: Formerly Known As 24
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Posted: Fri May 22, 2015 7:19 am Post subject: |
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I don't understand the question. Towns and okafor are the consensus top two across the league because clarkson played well for LA? |
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Gatekeeper Star Player
Joined: 11 Jan 2012 Posts: 5103 Location: Southland Native
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tlim Star Player
Joined: 26 Jun 2002 Posts: 6649
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Posted: Fri May 22, 2015 7:35 am Post subject: |
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I think the question boils down to, if our guard situation is miserable, would you rather pick for position or pick for talent? I'd pick for talent, which is T or O. |
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RCS926 Franchise Player
Joined: 05 Nov 2003 Posts: 16824
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Posted: Fri May 22, 2015 7:38 am Post subject: |
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24 wrote: | I don't understand the question. Towns and okafor are the consensus top two across the league because clarkson played well for LA? |
I think the question is: if we didn't have such a promising guard prospect in Clarkson, would we take Russell over Okafor/Towns? The implication is that we're not giving Russell a fair shake because of our frontcourt needs. It's a moot question because we're not the ones who are going to work out these players. I trust the FO to pick the BPA. If Russell impresses them more than Towns or Okafor, then I have no doubt the Lakers will take Russell at #2. If the Lakers are more impressed by the bigs, then they'll go in that direction. I don't think positional need will have any bearing on who they choose.
As for Clarkson hypothetically being a bust, you can't be a bust as a mid 2nd rounder because the expectations are low to begin with. |
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Rivershow Star Player
Joined: 09 Dec 2011 Posts: 6731
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Posted: Fri May 22, 2015 7:40 am Post subject: |
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I don't think Clarkson is on the mind of most people who are picking one of the bigs. Towns and Okafor are just the two best players in the draft. If Russell had elite athleticism then there may be an argument in taking him over one of the bigs. But he doesn't have that. |
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Fastbreak32 Star Player
Joined: 11 Oct 2011 Posts: 4746
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Posted: Fri May 22, 2015 7:42 am Post subject: |
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My selection wouldn't change. I'm drafting BPA. I'm leaning towards Okafor/Towns, but if Russell is the BPA, then I have no problems drafting him. Then I'd attempt to sign a FA, partly based on my draft choice. I know it's a long shot, but I really do want to see if we can steal away RFA's like Leonard or Butler. If we draft Russell, I'd consider M. Gasol or Jordan. _________________ LeBron, AD, & _________. Stay tuned.
"...there was a time when the Israelites were wandering in the desert and all of a sudden, bread came down from heaven,” Pelinka said. “That’s kind of what today feels like for us to have KCP join.” |
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NVD Starting Rotation
Joined: 02 Jun 2013 Posts: 247
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Posted: Fri May 22, 2015 7:50 am Post subject: |
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KobeBryantCliffordBrown wrote: | You draft the best player available. Period. |
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ringfinger Retired Number
Joined: 08 Oct 2013 Posts: 29418
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Posted: Fri May 22, 2015 7:52 am Post subject: |
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24 wrote: | I don't understand the question. Towns and okafor are the consensus top two across the league because clarkson played well for LA? |
It's a fairly basic question really. Let me simplify a bit.
Does the presence of Clarkson affect who you would draft with the #2? (You can just answer with yes or no).
Now, for Gatekeeper and some others ... I suppose it is a BPA type discussion, but I've never been a strict BPA guy. I think it would be silly to draft an SG in Kobe's prime for instance. Similarly, if we can get a legit big via FA (such as DeAndre), I can see it making some sense to go PG as well.
Here's another simple question -- which would you rather have:
DeAndre Jordan, Julius Randall, D'Angelo Russell+Jordan Clarkson, less cap space
or
Jahlil Okafor, Julius Randall, Jordan Clarkson+Backup-PG, more cap space
If you are a strict BPA type, you can ONLY opt for the second scenario (we're assuming KAT goes #1 here of course). I'm just not 100% certain the second scenario is better. |
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ringfinger Retired Number
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Posted: Fri May 22, 2015 8:03 am Post subject: |
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RCS926 wrote: | 24 wrote: | I don't understand the question. Towns and okafor are the consensus top two across the league because clarkson played well for LA? |
I think the question is: if we didn't have such a promising guard prospect in Clarkson, would we take Russell over Okafor/Towns? The implication is that we're not giving Russell a fair shake because of our frontcourt needs. It's a moot question because we're not the ones who are going to work out these players. I trust the FO to pick the BPA. If Russell impresses them more than Towns or Okafor, then I have no doubt the Lakers will take Russell at #2. If the Lakers are more impressed by the bigs, then they'll go in that direction. I don't think positional need will have any bearing on who they choose.
As for Clarkson hypothetically being a bust, you can't be a bust as a mid 2nd rounder because the expectations are low to begin with. |
Right. Similarly, I'd think Philly would value Russell more than Towns/Okafor because they already have Noel and Embiid. But if you go BPA every time period, you'd have to crowd your frontcourt.
So perhaps -- the reason we don't really factor Clarkson in, is because we're not 100% sold on whether he's the real deal? In other words, he's dispensable. I get the BPA argument, but I don't think it is a hard and fast rule. It would make little sense to have drafted an SG with a high pick in Kobe's prime when he's playing 39-40 MPG.
Well, technically Clarkson was a FA acquisition. (At least, that's how I viewed him). The Lakers specifically went after him. Had he been drafted earlier, we would not have traded for the #46. IIRC, we didn't acquire the pick before the draft, we acquired it when we found a willing trade partner who had a pick with Clarkson still on the board. And plus, we severely overpaid for what a typical 2nd round pick what cost you, so I think there were some expectations there.
But ok, it sounds like for most of you, Clarkson's emergence is a non-factor, I think that's fair given he is still unproven. |
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