Why do people say "Nobody wants to play with Kobe/ Lakers?"
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PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2015 5:16 pm    Post subject:

It's not everyone, but a lot of players don't like Kobe. I know this because I train and have friends who are NBA skills trainers. They've trained, gone out to party, and are on regular talking terms with a lot of players around the league. A lot of guys think he's a jerk or just don't think it would be fun to play with him. This isn't shocking though. The tougher minded ones can play with him, but with Kobe you know what you're going to get as far as shot selection and what not. It may not be the most fun experience - even if you end up winning it all.

Former teammates of his have told my friends that it was tough just watching him toss up shots. He also isn't the nicest guy though he's matured and become a little warmer over the years.

Either way he's still my favorite player so as a fan it doesn't bother me lol. 5 rings.
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PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2015 5:17 pm    Post subject:

I actually think there's some truth to this theory.
As a matter of fact we weren't able to sign any all stars during the most recent offseason when we had massive capspace
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PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2015 5:31 pm    Post subject:

Because people apparently think we should be able to sign whatever all star we want in any off season, or else it's because of Kobe. Like the choices every free agent goes through is "Kobe or Not Kobe?" Not the million other things that help them decide between 30 teams. If you're an all star, leaving your current team, why would you leave for a rebuilding team that will pay you less?
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PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2015 5:40 pm    Post subject:

Yong wrote:
I actually think there's some truth to this theory.
As a matter of fact we weren't able to sign any all stars during the most recent offseason when we had massive capspace


It's not just stars. I can't think of many players who took a pay cut specifically to team up with Kobe.

But who cares. We don't have to pretend it isn't true. It changes nothing about his legacy.
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PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2015 6:16 pm    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
Yong wrote:
I actually think there's some truth to this theory.
As a matter of fact we weren't able to sign any all stars during the most recent offseason when we had massive capspace


It's not just stars. I can't think of many players who took a pay cut specifically to team up with Kobe.

But who cares. We don't have to pretend it isn't true. It changes nothing about his legacy.



Plenty of players have taken pay cuts to play with Kobe while he has been here
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PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2015 6:22 pm    Post subject:

evetssteve10 wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
Yong wrote:
I actually think there's some truth to this theory.
As a matter of fact we weren't able to sign any all stars during the most recent offseason when we had massive capspace


It's not just stars. I can't think of many players who took a pay cut specifically to team up with Kobe.

But who cares. We don't have to pretend it isn't true. It changes nothing about his legacy.



Plenty of players have taken pay cuts to play with Kobe while he has been here


Who took a lot less than they could have? I have yet to see a Rick Fox, Karl Malone, Gary Payton type situation.
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PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2015 7:00 pm    Post subject:

It's going to be a long offseason, but what the heck, I'll bite.

During the entire post-Shaq era, up to the Achilles injury, how many times did the Lakers actually have the cap space to sign another star? We'll never know what might have happened if we had cap space. For the most part, this whole discussion is academic.

In the immediate post-Shaq period, we had the '07/'08 plan -- free up the ability to clear cap space in future years, and hope that one of the free agents bit. The primary targets were Amare, Yao, Lebron, and Carmelo, and there were some other guys who could have gotten into the mix. None of them bit. Was that because they didn't want to play with Kobe, or was it because they preferred the security of an extension with their existing teams? It was primarily the latter. But I guess we can say that none of them wanted to play with Kobe so badly that they were willing to roll the dice, for whatever that's worth.

So mostly we're talking about the guys in the middle, like Artest, Fisher, and the old Nash. There were other guys that the Lakers supposedly chased, but who went elsewhere. I couldn't give you a list all these years later, and besides most if not all of them signed for more elsewhere. We were only offering short term deals during a lot of those years. I don't think that proves much of anything one way or the other.

So we come down to the one bona fide example: Dwight Howard. I realize that there are a diversity of opinions on that subject. Personally, I'm not crying about it.

So, to sum it up:

1. There isn't enough evidence to prove or disprove the idea that free agents didn't want to play with Kobe. It's just scuttlebutt. There are undoubtedly some who didn't want to play with Kobe, just as there are probably some who didn't want to play in LA. People are people.

2. It doesn't really matter, because we almost never had the cap space to offer more than the MLE. I never understood why some people in the media seemed so fixated with this, when we didn't have the cap space anyway.

3. Yeah, no one ever forced their way out of another team to play with Kobe (unless you count Fisher, I guess), no one ever rolled the dice by turning down the security of an extension, and no one ever turned down a significantly better deal to play with Kobe. Okay, but hardly anyone ever does that stuff anyway. So what?
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PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2015 7:07 pm    Post subject:

^ Why cap space? We had MLE's and LLE's too.

It's just that no one REALLY wanted to come here. I don't think people were avoiding Kobe/Lakers but didn't view playing him as being something worth sacrificing for.
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PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2015 7:11 pm    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
evetssteve10 wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
Yong wrote:
I actually think there's some truth to this theory.
As a matter of fact we weren't able to sign any all stars during the most recent offseason when we had massive capspace


It's not just stars. I can't think of many players who took a pay cut specifically to team up with Kobe.

But who cares. We don't have to pretend it isn't true. It changes nothing about his legacy.



Plenty of players have taken pay cuts to play with Kobe while he has been here


Who took a lot less than they could have? I have yet to see a Rick Fox, Karl Malone, Gary Payton type situation.


So a player doesn't take "a lot less than they could have" to join the Lakers/Kobe and that somehow "proves" that people don't want to play with Kobe?

Name me what players have taken "a lot less" to join another all-star in another team?

And you just named Rick Fox, Karl Malone and Payton, yet say there are no examples...?

You can also add Ron Artest to the list of players who took less to play with Kobe, even went as far as going into the showers after the 2008 Celts beatdown to tell Kobe how much he wanted to play with him and help him beat the Celts.
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PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2015 7:15 pm    Post subject:

Besides the outlier Heatles situation (which they planned from years in advanced), find me one example where a star player took "way less money than they're worth" to join another all-star 's team to play 2nd or 3rd fiddle?

I guess that proves that players didn't want to play with those all-stars as well, right...?
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PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2015 7:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Nobody wants to play with Kobe/ Lakers

LAKERSCMXCIX wrote:
King Nupe wrote:
Where did this notion come from? What freeagent stated that they didn't want to play with Kobe or come to the lakers. What about the notion that free agents don't want to come to LA. The only freeagents that turned down the Lakers were Lebron who went "home" to another stacked team, and Melo who took the money to stay in NY. Houston didn't get bosh and they had a young squad with 2 stars. Dallas only got Parsons who was terrible this year. The Spurs Never get anybodY. So where is this coming from? Is it media driven to Blame Jim Buss or what?


ill be honest with you... I don't think current Kobe can take those cavs to the finals... I hate to admit this love him or hate him... Lebron will be a top 5 player when its all said and done.. what he did against Atlanta without Kyrie and Love was amazing


Of course not. The man is 37 years old. A prime Kobe would've easily won a championship with that group.
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PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2015 9:02 pm    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
^ Why cap space? We had MLE's and LLE's too.

It's just that no one REALLY wanted to come here. I don't think people were avoiding Kobe/Lakers but didn't view playing him as being something worth sacrificing for.



let me add to AH's post.

THere are different types of players in the nba. we're talking mentality and skill/ability.

1. role player skill/ but thinks he is a star (would never want to play with a super scorer like kobe. since this kind of guy wants to prove to the world he can produce at a superstar clip). These type of guys never carry a team to anything.

2. borderline superstar skill #2 option at best on a championship team/but thinks he's a superstar #1 option guy on a championship team... Dwight howard is this guy. He did not carry orlando to the finals in that super weak e.conf. It was him and hedo turkoglu. Hedo was there making offensive clutch plays and setting up teammates. Dwight was playing great defense, grabbing boards like crazy and catching lobs, with a little bit of posting up. He was the more marketable of the two guys thats why people thinks he was this superstar. he wasnt. we thougth he was baby shaq. but he wasnt that either. even with the 20 and 20 games. thats a guy with superior athleticism and a nice body size. but thats where it ends for him for the most part.

3. role player guy thats solid/clutch thats tired of not winning rings and wants to play with a winner. Fisher, Horry types.

4.Up and coming young star that has not yet panned out and has his own team. He's the big man on campus so to speak. Paul George, Kyrie, etc. These type of guys dont run and follow a super scorer like kobe. you try to resign for the max money with your current team and try to be the kobe of your team. you know you're not better than kobe. so you know you will never take his spot. which means either you get ready to play your true role which is the role of gasol or stay put on your home team and hope for the best.

5.another superstar #1 option that is loyal to his team and just needs help to win it all. This type is prime paul pierce.

Now if you think about the above. no wonder why certain guys would never play with kobe.


now when you move into this era of young guys and this new found happy time we're all pals mentality. Sure why would you want to play with the grumpy old man unless you grew up a fan of his and you grew up a laker fan(therefore you understand a winning tradition and you know, that kobe can teach you how to win.)

Most guys that wouldnt like kobe. wouldnt want a drill sergeant or a teacher as a parent. since these type of parents will ride you until you max out your potential or ball up into a shell and break under your own laziness.

as lazy & crazy as Lo was. Lo loved playing with kobe. because he knew he wasnt a #1 option on a ring team. he knew he was a darn good role guy on a championship team. he knew he was a piece to the puzzle. not the main piece. same with gasol after he tried and tried to will his griz past the spurs.

KG was about to come here until kobe went off on the FO. KG said he didnt know what was going on over here. that was due to kobe going off on the FO that time. so why would you come to a place where the main star just went off on the FO. and you're an aging star trying to win one.

ANy free agent that doesnt want to play with kobe is not the kind of player you want as your laker future. He will not become the superstar we're accustomed too.

James worthy was a super scorer, but so was magic all the while being a great passer. kareem was another super scorer. Bscott, James, could've played for some no name team and been the main gun. But they cared more about winning. and they realized this guy magic is even more special then we are. You have to admit that first then you have to want to win more than you want to be the main guy.

Do you guys not remember what happened at the olympics? He was the biggest star in the building. Even though we just watched Dwade be the man and lebron become the man in the nba. Kobe was still bigger then both of them. some of these superstars dont like to be 2nd fiddle to anyone even if they know that guy is actually better than them on the court and they could win with him.
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PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2015 9:05 pm    Post subject:

Batguano wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
evetssteve10 wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
Yong wrote:
I actually think there's some truth to this theory.
As a matter of fact we weren't able to sign any all stars during the most recent offseason when we had massive capspace


It's not just stars. I can't think of many players who took a pay cut specifically to team up with Kobe.

But who cares. We don't have to pretend it isn't true. It changes nothing about his legacy.



Plenty of players have taken pay cuts to play with Kobe while he has been here


Who took a lot less than they could have? I have yet to see a Rick Fox, Karl Malone, Gary Payton type situation.


So a player doesn't take "a lot less than they could have" to join the Lakers/Kobe and that somehow "proves" that people don't want to play with Kobe?

Name me what players have taken "a lot less" to join another all-star in another team?

And you just named Rick Fox, Karl Malone and Payton, yet say there are no examples...?

You can also add Ron Artest to the list of players who took less to play with Kobe, even went as far as going into the showers after the 2008 Celts beatdown to tell Kobe how much he wanted to play with him and help him beat the Celts.


I'd defiitely count Artest. I don't agree he took a paycut since I don't know he'd have gotten any more thru the market but he really wanted to team up with Kobe and he was willing to sacrifice shots so he should count.

That said, the point about players not wanting to come here is in the post-Shaq era. And it's true. Players had the chance to come here and play for MLE money with Kobe but they didn't want to. Instead we got guys like Vlad for it.

But my point isn't that people were avoiding LA like the plague (which I think many in the media like to suggest) but more of a situation where they just didn't particularly want to (versus particularly wanting to.

I do believe the number of players lining up to play with Kobe was a short one, because we weren't exactly fending off suitors during his prime. In order for me to believe a lot of players wanted to play with him, I'd need to evidence of some kind that suggests a lot of players wanted to play with him. But I don't think players would have run for the hills for a pay raise either.
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PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2015 9:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Nobody wants to play with Kobe/ Lakers

LAKERSCMXCIX wrote:
King Nupe wrote:
Where did this notion come from? What freeagent stated that they didn't want to play with Kobe or come to the lakers. What about the notion that free agents don't want to come to LA. The only freeagents that turned down the Lakers were Lebron who went "home" to another stacked team, and Melo who took the money to stay in NY. Houston didn't get bosh and they had a young squad with 2 stars. Dallas only got Parsons who was terrible this year. The Spurs Never get anybodY. So where is this coming from? Is it media driven to Blame Jim Buss or what?


ill be honest with you... I don't think current Kobe can take those cavs to the finals... I hate to admit this love him or hate him... Lebron will be a top 5 player when its all said and done.. what he did against Atlanta without Kyrie and Love was amazing
it actually wasnt amazing at all.

Its not hard to dismantle a pretender. Explain to me when you actually thought the hawks were a legitimate champion ship team? I never thought they were. i felt if they got lucky(didnt have to face the cavs), and maybe some opponents guys were hurt(not the cavs unless it was lebron). then they might have a chance of sneaking into the finals even in the weak east.

i liked the hawks, they were similar to the pistons that beat us back in the day. but there was a key difference. they did not have lockdown defense like that pistons team. the hawks didnt have one thing about them that they did better then every other team except for play great team ball.

team ball has never won a thing unless its with super defense.

So lebron beat a complete low level eastern conference pretender team.

There is or was nothing special about that. Lebron could've beat that very same team with just him and wiggins in a minnesota jersey. it means lbj is a hall of famer. no doubt about it. so yes the man is very very very good. but i cant use the hawks as a gadge since they were not a great team. they were ok.
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PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2015 9:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Nobody wants to play with Kobe/ Lakers

hoopla wrote:
LAKERSCMXCIX wrote:
King Nupe wrote:
Where did this notion come from? What freeagent stated that they didn't want to play with Kobe or come to the lakers. What about the notion that free agents don't want to come to LA. The only freeagents that turned down the Lakers were Lebron who went "home" to another stacked team, and Melo who took the money to stay in NY. Houston didn't get bosh and they had a young squad with 2 stars. Dallas only got Parsons who was terrible this year. The Spurs Never get anybodY. So where is this coming from? Is it media driven to Blame Jim Buss or what?


ill be honest with you... I don't think current Kobe can take those cavs to the finals... I hate to admit this love him or hate him... Lebron will be a top 5 player when its all said and done.. what he did against Atlanta without Kyrie and Love was amazing
it actually wasnt amazing at all.

Its not hard to dismantle a pretender. Explain to me when you actually thought the hawks were a legitimate champion ship team? I never thought they were. i felt if they got lucky(didnt have to face the cavs), and maybe some opponents guys were hurt(not the cavs unless it was lebron). then they might have a chance of sneaking into the finals even in the weak east.

i liked the hawks, they were similar to the pistons that beat us back in the day. but there was a key difference. they did not have lockdown defense like that pistons team. the hawks didnt have one thing about them that they did better then every other team except for play great team ball.

team ball has never won a thing unless its with super defense.

So lebron beat a complete low level eastern conference pretender team.

There is or was nothing special about that. Lebron could've beat that very same team with just him and wiggins in a minnesota jersey. it means lbj is a hall of famer. no doubt about it. so yes the man is very very very good. but i cant use the hawks as a gadge since they were not a great team. they were ok.


You realize he put up numbers in that game that no one in NBA history has put up in a finals game?

All those decades of playoff games with pretenders and yet no one else has done it before. In the 80s we had 30-something win teams in the playoffs (Atlanta was a 60-win team) and yet no one could put up a line like that.

To say there is nothing special about what no one else could do is absurd.
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PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2015 9:13 pm    Post subject:

I hear Okafor does.
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PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2015 9:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Nobody wants to play with Kobe/ Lakers

ringfinger wrote:
hoopla wrote:
LAKERSCMXCIX wrote:
King Nupe wrote:
Where did this notion come from? What freeagent stated that they didn't want to play with Kobe or come to the lakers. What about the notion that free agents don't want to come to LA. The only freeagents that turned down the Lakers were Lebron who went "home" to another stacked team, and Melo who took the money to stay in NY. Houston didn't get bosh and they had a young squad with 2 stars. Dallas only got Parsons who was terrible this year. The Spurs Never get anybodY. So where is this coming from? Is it media driven to Blame Jim Buss or what?


ill be honest with you... I don't think current Kobe can take those cavs to the finals... I hate to admit this love him or hate him... Lebron will be a top 5 player when its all said and done.. what he did against Atlanta without Kyrie and Love was amazing
it actually wasnt amazing at all.

Its not hard to dismantle a pretender. Explain to me when you actually thought the hawks were a legitimate champion ship team? I never thought they were. i felt if they got lucky(didnt have to face the cavs), and maybe some opponents guys were hurt(not the cavs unless it was lebron). then they might have a chance of sneaking into the finals even in the weak east.

i liked the hawks, they were similar to the pistons that beat us back in the day. but there was a key difference. they did not have lockdown defense like that pistons team. the hawks didnt have one thing about them that they did better then every other team except for play great team ball.

team ball has never won a thing unless its with super defense.

So lebron beat a complete low level eastern conference pretender team.

There is or was nothing special about that. Lebron could've beat that very same team with just him and wiggins in a minnesota jersey. it means lbj is a hall of famer. no doubt about it. so yes the man is very very very good. but i cant use the hawks as a gadge since they were not a great team. they were ok.


You realize he put up numbers in that game that no one in NBA history has put up in a finals game?

All those decades of playoff games with pretenders and yet no one else has done it before. In the 80s we had 30-something win teams in the playoffs (Atlanta was a 60-win team) and yet no one could put up a line like that.

To say there is nothing special about what no one else could do is absurd.


I thought Steve Nash teams were always pretenders, it was hard for us to dismantle them for a little while there. Just saying.
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PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2015 9:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Nobody wants to play with Kobe/ Lakers

Lakers2015 wrote:
LAKERSCMXCIX wrote:
King Nupe wrote:
Where did this notion come from? What freeagent stated that they didn't want to play with Kobe or come to the lakers. What about the notion that free agents don't want to come to LA. The only freeagents that turned down the Lakers were Lebron who went "home" to another stacked team, and Melo who took the money to stay in NY. Houston didn't get bosh and they had a young squad with 2 stars. Dallas only got Parsons who was terrible this year. The Spurs Never get anybodY. So where is this coming from? Is it media driven to Blame Jim Buss or what?


ill be honest with you... I don't think current Kobe can take those cavs to the finals... I hate to admit this love him or hate him... Lebron will be a top 5 player when its all said and done.. what he did against Atlanta without Kyrie and Love was amazing


Of course not. The man is 37 years old. A prime Kobe would've easily won a championship with that group.


I disagree, I think they lose in the finals with Kobe, just like they will lose in the finals with Lebron.
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PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2015 11:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Nobody wants to play with Kobe/ Lakers

ringfinger wrote:
hoopla wrote:
LAKERSCMXCIX wrote:
King Nupe wrote:
Where did this notion come from? What freeagent stated that they didn't want to play with Kobe or come to the lakers. What about the notion that free agents don't want to come to LA. The only freeagents that turned down the Lakers were Lebron who went "home" to another stacked team, and Melo who took the money to stay in NY. Houston didn't get bosh and they had a young squad with 2 stars. Dallas only got Parsons who was terrible this year. The Spurs Never get anybodY. So where is this coming from? Is it media driven to Blame Jim Buss or what?


ill be honest with you... I don't think current Kobe can take those cavs to the finals... I hate to admit this love him or hate him... Lebron will be a top 5 player when its all said and done.. what he did against Atlanta without Kyrie and Love was amazing
it actually wasnt amazing at all.

Its not hard to dismantle a pretender. Explain to me when you actually thought the hawks were a legitimate champion ship team? I never thought they were. i felt if they got lucky(didnt have to face the cavs), and maybe some opponents guys were hurt(not the cavs unless it was lebron). then they might have a chance of sneaking into the finals even in the weak east.

i liked the hawks, they were similar to the pistons that beat us back in the day. but there was a key difference. they did not have lockdown defense like that pistons team. the hawks didnt have one thing about them that they did better then every other team except for play great team ball.

team ball has never won a thing unless its with super defense.

So lebron beat a complete low level eastern conference pretender team.

There is or was nothing special about that. Lebron could've beat that very same team with just him and wiggins in a minnesota jersey. it means lbj is a hall of famer. no doubt about it. so yes the man is very very very good. but i cant use the hawks as a gadge since they were not a great team. they were ok.


You realize he put up numbers in that game that no one in NBA history has put up in a finals game?

All those decades of playoff games with pretenders and yet no one else has done it before. In the 80s we had 30-something win teams in the playoffs (Atlanta was a 60-win team) and yet no one could put up a line like that.

To say there is nothing special about what no one else could do is absurd.
you do realize you're making my point right?

telling me someone's godly stats vs light weight comp isnt saying much to me. to you yes. to espn..of course. throwing stats around is the thing of the day in this era. It still doesnt change what i can actually see with my own eyes. i've been watching basketball for a very long time and i know the game very well. I never once thought Atlanta was a top seed team when it comes to their ability. I thought the nba is so watered down that this atlanta team can actually be a top 3 seed. i've thought that from day one.

so you telling me "hey hoopla, guess what.. i just put up 100 pts in a game. " i would go what... thats crazy. Then i would ask, "so who were you playing against?"

i would do this to get some context in your stats. So we can gadge what that 100 actually means. You say well it was against a bunch of 8 year olds. I will say well 100 points is a lot of points no matter where you score that many points. so kudos to you but lets not flaunt it like you just did it vs the same level of comp as yourself or even close.

Some people can make others look like school children. thats not what lbj has done here or any other time. its not his fault either. This era is very watered down. rule changes and the type of players that are out there.

lebron starts out Ofer and the hawks are not even up by 15. what does that tell you? THEY are not that good. ""They are what we thought they were."

I never ra ra'd about the lakers beating up on the jason kid nets. because i knew good and well they were no competition in reality. I knew that was the bad east and thats all they had to offer at the time. The real championship was vs some of the laker's western conf foes. But playing in that weak east. if you have a true hall of fame player on your team like lebron. its almost a foregone conclusion that you will be in the finals. only injury can stop you. thats it.
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PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2015 12:03 am    Post subject:

and for those that really believe what lebron did to the suspect hawks is so utterly amazing and really believe prime kobe could not do the same. let me ask you a question? is the cavs with love hurt and kyrie hurt. worse than

Smuch parker- didnt play long in the nba
cook- didnt play that long in the nba
luke walton
kwame brown(mr no hands)

he took these guys into the playoffs in the super tough east and almost....almost...beat a legit #2 seed. not a fake #1 seed from the worse conference ever.


the #2 suns of that year would've destroyed the hawks of this year. do you disagree?

so if you agree with that premise. then you have to agree that kobe would've destroyed the hawks and drug his team past them. now facing curry and crew(assuming they get out alive and healthy). would've been similar to the suns. kobe may have been able to get up on these guys and then eventually reality sets in. your team sucks and you alone cant outscore a team that scores 100+ ppg.
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Aeneas Hunter
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PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2015 5:49 am    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
^ Why cap space? We had MLE's and LLE's too.

It's just that no one REALLY wanted to come here. I don't think people were avoiding Kobe/Lakers but didn't view playing him as being something worth sacrificing for.


MLE/LLE players aren't really what we're talking about. When someone in the media says "Free agents don't want to play with Kobe!," they aren't referring to the small fish. They're saying that the studs don't want to play with Kobe.
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PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2015 6:08 am    Post subject:

hoopla wrote:
and for those that really believe what lebron did to the suspect hawks is so utterly amazing and really believe prime kobe could not do the same.


The '06 series was more about Phil Jackson than Kobe. PJ came out with a great game plan against the Suns and got Kobe to buy into it. It wasn't about Kobe going out and doing it all by himself. On the contrary, Kobe shot less than his regular season averages, though a little more efficiently:

Regular season: 27.2 FGA, 35.4 PPG, 38.7 USG
Playoff series: 20.7 FGA, 27.9 PPG, 28.9 USG

Phil got Kobe to shift some of his energy from scoring to playmaking and (especially) defense. I remember being shocked by how different the team looked early in the series.

If Kobe had gone out and tried to play hero ball, I think the Suns would have finished us off in 4-5 games. I don't mean that as a knock on Kobe. We just weren't going to beat the Suns that way.
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ringfinger
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PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2015 6:16 am    Post subject: Re: Nobody wants to play with Kobe/ Lakers

hoopla wrote:
you do realize you're making my point right?

telling me someone's godly stats vs light weight comp isnt saying much to me. to you yes. to espn..of course. throwing stats around is the thing of the day in this era. It still doesnt change what i can actually see with my own eyes. i've been watching basketball for a very long time and i know the game very well. I never once thought Atlanta was a top seed team when it comes to their ability. I thought the nba is so watered down that this atlanta team can actually be a top 3 seed. i've thought that from day one.


I don't want to turn this in to a bash/praise Lebron thread. So I'll just leave this particular discussion by saying that I wasn't referring to his performance in the Hawks series. I was referring specifically, to his game 3 performance against the Hawks which was a 37 point, 18 rebound, 13 assist night. To say his game 3 performance was not impressive, is to not know history. I'm not sure that anyone, and certainly not anyone in the modern era, has ever posted at least a 37/18/13 line. Whether the Hawks are legit or not is beside the point. Hundreds of thousands of NBA players have played against non-legit teams in the playoffs, and certainly teams worse than the 60-win Hawks, and still failed to produce that kind of line. You don't need to anoint him the GOAT because of it, but let's not try to pretend it was a pathetic performance either because plenty of players have had opportunities to post such a line against weak opponents and failed.

hoopla wrote:
so you telling me "hey hoopla, guess what.. i just put up 100 pts in a game. " i would go what... thats crazy. Then i would ask, "so who were you playing against?"

i would do this to get some context in your stats. So we can gadge what that 100 actually means. You say well it was against a bunch of 8 year olds. I will say well 100 points is a lot of points no matter where you score that many points. so kudos to you but lets not flaunt it like you just did it vs the same level of comp as yourself or even close.


Well, we're going to need to agree to disagree here. Kobe's 81-point was, IMO, the best, single individual offensive performance in NBA history. That you want to downplay it now because he played against the lowly 27-wins-in-the-East Raptors is not a discussion I'm particularly interested in engaging in.
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PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2015 6:31 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
^ Why cap space? We had MLE's and LLE's too.

It's just that no one REALLY wanted to come here. I don't think people were avoiding Kobe/Lakers but didn't view playing him as being something worth sacrificing for.


MLE/LLE players aren't really what we're talking about. When someone in the media says "Free agents don't want to play with Kobe!," they aren't referring to the small fish. They're saying that the studs don't want to play with Kobe.


I'm not talking about small fish either. I think they're talking about medium-to-big fish that show a strong desire to come play with a specific player/team. In this case, that player is Kobe and the team is Lakers. For instance, as I've brought up before, Karl Malone and Gary Payton. Rick Fox. Dwayne Wade. (Well, I guess he's a big fish). I'd consider Artest/MWP one guy (medium fish) who really wanted to come here because of Kobe.

Either way, I don't think many (if any) of the medium-to-big fish particularly wanted to play with Kobe. If they did, they would have forced their way over here at some point within the last decade as other players have done in other situations. But as I've said, I don't think that means players are particularly avoiding him either so I don't believe it's as bad as the media at times portrays. Let's put it this way. I think a lot of players would, under the right circumstances and on their terms, have been willing to play with Kobe. But I don't and didn't, see much evidence that players of any caliber were lining up to play with him either.
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dont_be_a_wuss
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PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2015 6:37 am    Post subject:

​​“The reason people don’t want to go to the Lakers is because of management,” Barnes tells SI.com. “Kobe can be the scapegoat all they want but if you play hard, Kobe likes you. And if you bulls— around, he doesn’t. It’s plain and simple. He’s not a vocal leader. He just expects you to play as hard as you can every minute on the court, like he does.”
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