Thought this was a pretty good read. Phil's book gave us a lot of insight into that season, but this article includes perspectives from pretty much everyone who was a member of that team.
It was a good read. I checked it out earlier today on my phone. As much as we all know about that soap opera, (Phil's, The Last Season) I still get the sense there is a ton we still don't know. In hindsight, it is rather captivating.
i was not finished celebrating the signing of Glove and Mailman when Kobe's Colorado news broke, talking about the ultimate anti-climax. and how much blame should gone to Gary Vitti for letting Malone back too early from the 1st injury.
We weren’t a team. We were a collection of very accomplished and high-achieving individuals. Even though we had a really good core and nucleus of guys who had been there for a few years already, we weren’t a team.
Good read. Only Shaq points it out in the end but if Malone doesn't get hurt, we win that series. I found what Chauncey said about their Shaq strategy interesting. I still remember game 4. Shaq was scoring at will, then for some reason Kobe just started going away from that and attacking. At the time, people thought he wanted to win finals mvp. It's interesting that that was exactly what Detroit wanted to happen.
Hm I was disappointed in that article. Grantland usually does AMAZING oral histories (see their KG one from a couple weeks ago), but that one didn't live up to the standards they set. Although maybe it's different since we are Laker fans who already knew what was going on with that team since we lived it (and read some behind the scenes in Phil's book).
I thought the most interesting quotes were Billups'. It's amazing how on fire those Pistons teams were, yet so overlooked. _________________ Double rings > Double rainbow
Billups was the only one to speak about strategy in that series. I wonder how much of that is just revisionist history to coincide with what actually happened. Almost seems Godfather-like the way they played Kobe on a string.
Kobe comes out looking pretty bad, even by his own comments about never wanting to play with Shaq again. In a perfect world he would've just taken the criticism that came with being Shaq's "sidekick", even if he had actually become the 1b, and Shaq would've gracefully handed the torch to Kobe in the coming years. With the size of those two egos, it was just never going to happen.
For Kobe it was more important to prove he can win without Shaq, then to continue winning with him, by his own admission.
And from reading Shaq's quotes, he was obviously in denial about his decline. He's calling it a "business decision" now, but he took it personal at the time. He couldn't look in the mirror and see a man whose prime was behind him. He couldn't accept taking a pay cut. But this is nothing new.
Injured Malone and lack of outside shooting doomed this team. Wasn't a particularly good road team, either. Defended only when they felt like it. Very fortunate to even advance past the western semis. _________________ Smrek 2, Nevitt 1, Barkley 0
Joined: 30 Nov 2006 Posts: 33474 Location: Long Beach, California
Posted: Tue May 26, 2015 7:36 pm Post subject:
Payton was done by then (you can tell by Phil's comments he was politely trying to say that). Malone was still really capable, but wasn't really Malone either - he was probably the best facilitator on that team. That team was far less talented than one would think... it just had big names. Fox was done as a player by then too and Horace Grant shouldn't have even been playing.
I get that the team was falling apart due to chemistry issues. However, if we got the Malone and, especially, Payton that we were expecting to get, that team still could have overcome the chemistry issues to win a title. _________________ LakersGround's Terms of Service
Hm I was disappointed in that article. Grantland usually does AMAZING oral histories (see their KG one from a couple weeks ago), but that one didn't live up to the standards they set. Although maybe it's different since we are Laker fans who already knew what was going on with that team since we lived it (and read some behind the scenes in Phil's book).
I thought the most interesting quotes were Billups'. It's amazing how on fire those Pistons teams were, yet so overlooked.
I agree Grantland does amazing pieces, but this was Bleacherreport.
We weren’t a team. We were a collection of very accomplished and high-achieving individuals. Even though we had a really good core and nucleus of guys who had been there for a few years already, we weren’t a team.
It never felt like they played for each other. Even when accepting the western trophy, the entire team wasn't there. Despite all that, the Pistons were the only team out of the East that could beat them. Pacers, Nets wouldn't have had a chance. Lakers ran into the wrong team at the wrong time. It's unfortunately everything fell apart at the end, but it was a fun ride. _________________ Smrek 2, Nevitt 1, Barkley 0
I go back and forth on that series loss or 2008. 4 out of 5 titles, even if they still separated would have been a nice way to end that incredible run.
It kills me that the Lakers should have gone 7 for 7 in the 11 year run of titles. They were favorite in both series and they blew it in both when they shouldn't have.
4 out of 5 for Kobe and 2 3-peats with two Celtics wins would have changed history.
Shaq and Kobe together and separate would have had different legacies had they won the 3 series they were favorite to win.
If Shaq goes 6 for 6, winning with 3 teams, I believe he would have been the number 1 center of all time, no worse than 2.
If Kobe goes 7 for 7, he would have his spot in the top 5 sign sealed and delivered forever. _________________ Because we're better than you!
Joined: 24 Dec 2007 Posts: 35855 Location: Santa Clarita, CA (Hell) ->>>>>Ithaca, NY -≥≥≥≥≥Berkeley, CA
Posted: Tue May 26, 2015 9:35 pm Post subject:
Oliver Reed wrote:
I go back and forth on that series loss or 2008. 4 out of 5 titles, even if they still separated would have been a nice way to end that incredible run.
It kills me that the Lakers should have gone 7 for 7 in the 11 year run of titles. They were favorite in both series and they blew it in both when they shouldn't have.
4 out of 5 for Kobe and 2 3-peats with two Celtics wins would have changed history.
Shaq and Kobe together and separate would have had different legacies had they won the 3 series they were favorite to win.
If Shaq goes 6 for 6, winning with 3 teams, I believe he would have been the number 1 center of all time, no worse than 2.
If Kobe goes 7 for 7, he would have his spot in the top 5 sign sealed and delivered forever.
Not even. Three-peat from 2000-2002. If Horry makes that shot, that's four straight. Healthy Malone is five straight. Championship = Possibly no more feud between Shaq and Kobe, and Payton and Malone stay one more year to win a sixth.
Kobe has his freak year in 05-06 and we win a seventh. Find a way to dump Shaq instead of Kwame for Pau Gasol and then we get 2-3 more.
Then if Stern didn't veto the CP3 trade, we would get another three over the years. _________________ Damian Lillard shatters Dwight Coward's championship dreams:
And despite all the bull (bleep), if Mailman doesn't get injured, we win.
I think all of you forget the foul discrepancy in that series. The Lakers were already behind the eight ball and then the whistles against them, there was no way they were going to win. Miami 2006 D Wade and the parade at the free throw. NBA hated Mark Cuban.
I go back and forth on that series loss or 2008. 4 out of 5 titles, even if they still separated would have been a nice way to end that incredible run.
It kills me that the Lakers should have gone 7 for 7 in the 11 year run of titles. They were favorite in both series and they blew it in both when they shouldn't have.
4 out of 5 for Kobe and 2 3-peats with two Celtics wins would have changed history.
Shaq and Kobe together and separate would have had different legacies had they won the 3 series they were favorite to win.
If Shaq goes 6 for 6, winning with 3 teams, I believe he would have been the number 1 center of all time, no worse than 2.
If Kobe goes 7 for 7, he would have his spot in the top 5 sign sealed and delivered forever.
Not even. Three-peat from 2000-2002. If Horry makes that shot, that's four straight. Healthy Malone is five straight. Championship = Possibly no more feud between Shaq and Kobe, and Payton and Malone stay one more year to win a sixth.
Kobe has his freak year in 05-06 and we win a seventh. Find a way to dump Shaq instead of Kwame for Pau Gasol and then we get 2-3 more.
Then if Stern didn't veto the CP3 trade, we would get another three over the years.
So basically we were 1 shot and 1 injury away from 15 straight championships from 2000-2015? _________________ Double rings > Double rainbow
Joined: 12 Jan 2008 Posts: 3820 Location: Anaheim, CA
Posted: Wed May 27, 2015 11:04 am Post subject:
chains wrote:
The Grind wrote:
And despite all the bull (bleep), if Mailman doesn't get injured, we win.
I think all of you forget the foul discrepancy in that series. The Lakers were already behind the eight ball and then the whistles against them, there was no way they were going to win. Miami 2006 D Wade and the parade at the free throw. NBA hated Mark Cuban.
Ya the FT disparity was ridiculous in that series. The Lakers were obviously the number one team in FT attempts to due Shaq and Kobe but somehow the script flipped and the Pistons shot more FT's in every game in that series.
Game 1 - 30-18
Game 2 - 31-25
Game 3 - 30-13
Game 4 - 41-22
Game 5 - 39-33
It's bad enough that when the Pistons played defense "without fouling" you're already at a disadvantage but to add the fact that they shot FT's on every little ticky tack (bleep)
Joined: 11 May 2006 Posts: 2044 Location: Southern California, Laker Land
Posted: Thu May 28, 2015 3:51 pm Post subject:
Vishnu wrote:
Good read. Only Shaq points it out in the end but if Malone doesn't get hurt, we win that series. I found what Chauncey said about their Shaq strategy interesting. I still remember game 4. Shaq was scoring at will, then for some reason Kobe just started going away from that and attacking. At the time, people thought he wanted to win finals mvp. It's interesting that that was exactly what Detroit wanted to happen.
The problem was the inefficiency of the offense with Shaq. Shaq was getting hammered all series long anytime he got close to the basket the Pistons had a motto no layups or dunks for shaq put him on the line, and if my memory serves me right he missed almost 75% of his free throws that series something god awful. And the Pistons knew if they could put the pressure on Kobe to try and take over the game he would be playing into their hands because they were grabbing, holding, fouling Kobe on every play but wasn't called under the old rules (Hand Checking Allowed) So Kobe never had a chance to play hero ball and they threw 5 defenders at Kobe throughout each game (Prince, Rip, Chauncey, Hunter, and B. Wallace at times when Shaq was rendered useless by Rasheed Wallace, Okur, Millic for fouls and what not.
That team was loaded with good to elite defenders and the rules played at the time into their hands not ours. Moot note: The officiating in that series was pretty atrocious and it seemed like to me the NBA was trying to send a message to teams that Super-Teams would not be allowed in the NBA. Little did the NBA know that the anchor had been pulled up and that shipped had already sailed away. _________________ Game 3 Victory in Denver . Mostly they were talking about Fisher's speech, the kind that might one day be put on T-shirts and repeated on the corner of 11th and Figueroa, words fit for a parade, his Lakers stepping into their destiny. L.A. Times 2009
Phil was not coaching in the Finals. he was going through the motions like he did his last season in with the Lakers. he mailed it in. I mean, Luke was running point, initiating the tri... ugh.
it was also hard to overcome the officiating in the series, it was almost impossible to beat Detroit with that. _________________ "Now, if life is coffee, then the jobs, money & position in society are the cups. They are just tools to hold & contain life, but the quality of life doesn't change. Sometimes, by concentrating only on the cup, we fail to enjoy the coffee in it."
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