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Mike@LG
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 Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2015 8:21 pm Post subject: |
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| SuperboyReformed wrote: | | i basically agree with all the names here except for lebron. anywhere you see the name lebron, substitute pippen and i'm good. |
I can't. I know LeBron doesn't have a great Finals record, but he only had a stud #2 with Wade, and Wade wasn't prime on both ends of the floor like Pippen was.
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moonriver24
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| Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2015 9:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | | SuperboyReformed wrote: | | i basically agree with all the names here except for lebron. anywhere you see the name lebron, substitute pippen and i'm good. |
I can't. I know LeBron doesn't have a great Finals record, but he only had a stud #2 with Wade, and Wade wasn't prime on both ends of the floor like Pippen was. |
Pippen is worth considering because he could lead his team without MJ even though he lost to Ewing in conference finals. I doubt MJ would make it easier without Pippen as he had to carry the load of a playmaker throughout the series and do it without the best defender in his team.
I think Pippen is a victim of supporting cast label for too long.
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C M B
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| Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2015 9:17 pm Post subject: |
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Bird
Magic
Wilt
Jordan
Kobe
Kareem
Shaq
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PurpleAndGOAT
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| Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2015 9:43 pm Post subject: |
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| vanexelent wrote: | | SuperboyReformed wrote: | | vanexelent wrote: | | PurpleAndGOAT wrote: | Jordan
Magic
Kobe
Bird
Kareem
Duncan
Shaq
Wilt
Lebron
Hakeem |
Bird over Kareem? |
no way. kareem is the only one in that list you can place above jordan for the #1 slot, and you'd have a case for it. Kobe, too, but that's just me. |
Kareem yes. Kobe no. Most skilled player, sure. But not career, total package wise. |
I put Bird over Kareem because 5 of Kareem's titles came with having the greatest point guard of all time and one of the deepest teams in NBA history on the Showtime Lakers while Bird was the clear cut #1 player on a Celtics team that was able to win 3 titles in the 80s despite one of the greatest teams of all time in the Showtime Lakers being in their prime as a team
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moonriver24
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| Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2015 10:14 pm Post subject: |
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| PurpleAndGOAT wrote: | | vanexelent wrote: | | SuperboyReformed wrote: | | vanexelent wrote: | | PurpleAndGOAT wrote: | Jordan
Magic
Kobe
Bird
Kareem
Duncan
Shaq
Wilt
Lebron
Hakeem |
Bird over Kareem? |
no way. kareem is the only one in that list you can place above jordan for the #1 slot, and you'd have a case for it. Kobe, too, but that's just me. |
Kareem yes. Kobe no. Most skilled player, sure. But not career, total package wise. |
I put Bird over Kareem because 5 of Kareem's titles came with having the greatest point guard of all time and one of the deepest teams in NBA history on the Showtime Lakers while Bird was the clear cut #1 player on a Celtics team that was able to win 3 titles in the 80s despite one of the greatest teams of all time in the Showtime Lakers being in their prime as a team |
Sometimes I wonder what coulda been if Kobe were in those deepest teams ringwise.
For I am pretty sure he wouldnt have been a disappointment with so deep a team from 1 to 10.
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2015 10:57 pm Post subject: |
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NOT IN ORDER
Duncan
Kobe
Shaq
Jordan
Hakeem
Magic
Bird
Kareem
Wilt
Russell |
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SuperboyReformed
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| Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2015 12:09 am Post subject: |
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| PurpleAndGOAT wrote: | | vanexelent wrote: | | SuperboyReformed wrote: | | vanexelent wrote: | | PurpleAndGOAT wrote: | Jordan
Magic
Kobe
Bird
Kareem
Duncan
Shaq
Wilt
Lebron
Hakeem |
Bird over Kareem? |
no way. kareem is the only one in that list you can place above jordan for the #1 slot, and you'd have a case for it. Kobe, too, but that's just me. |
Kareem yes. Kobe no. Most skilled player, sure. But not career, total package wise. |
I put Bird over Kareem because 5 of Kareem's titles came with having the greatest point guard of all time and one of the deepest teams in NBA history on the Showtime Lakers while Bird was the clear cut #1 player on a Celtics team that was able to win 3 titles in the 80s despite one of the greatest teams of all time in the Showtime Lakers being in their prime as a team |
Bird wasn't playing with no slouch bigmen. |
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Telleris
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| Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2015 1:05 am Post subject: |
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jordan magic and bird, and maybe not even bird, everyone else has arguments for/against
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Mike@LG
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Location: Orange County, CA
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| Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2015 3:00 am Post subject: |
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| moonriver24 wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | SuperboyReformed wrote: | | i basically agree with all the names here except for lebron. anywhere you see the name lebron, substitute pippen and i'm good. |
I can't. I know LeBron doesn't have a great Finals record, but he only had a stud #2 with Wade, and Wade wasn't prime on both ends of the floor like Pippen was. |
Pippen is worth considering because he could lead his team without MJ even though he lost to Ewing in conference finals. I doubt MJ would make it easier without Pippen as he had to carry the load of a playmaker throughout the series and do it without the best defender in his team.
I think Pippen is a victim of supporting cast label for too long. |
I never thought of him as a supporting cast player. He's one of my favorite players.
But Top 10? There are too many dynamic shot creators that are elite defenders too.
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vanexelent
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| Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2015 3:10 am Post subject: |
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| SuperboyReformed wrote: | | PurpleAndGOAT wrote: | | vanexelent wrote: | | SuperboyReformed wrote: | | vanexelent wrote: | | PurpleAndGOAT wrote: | Jordan
Magic
Kobe
Bird
Kareem
Duncan
Shaq
Wilt
Lebron
Hakeem |
Bird over Kareem? |
no way. kareem is the only one in that list you can place above jordan for the #1 slot, and you'd have a case for it. Kobe, too, but that's just me. |
Kareem yes. Kobe no. Most skilled player, sure. But not career, total package wise. |
I put Bird over Kareem because 5 of Kareem's titles came with having the greatest point guard of all time and one of the deepest teams in NBA history on the Showtime Lakers while Bird was the clear cut #1 player on a Celtics team that was able to win 3 titles in the 80s despite one of the greatest teams of all time in the Showtime Lakers being in their prime as a team |
Bird wasn't playing with no slouch bigmen. |
Yeah, Bird's teams were just as deep.
Kareem, in his prime, was a 30/15/5 guy, with an unstoppable shot.
Plus I give alot of weight to skill and longevity and he represents both. |
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Mike@LG
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Location: Orange County, CA
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| Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2015 3:11 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Bird wasn't playing with no slouch bigmen. |
Or guards. Dennis Johnson.
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doughboy90650
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Joined: 20 Apr 2006
Posts: 15294
Location: Southern California
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| Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2015 7:06 am Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | | SuperboyReformed wrote: | | i basically agree with all the names here except for lebron. anywhere you see the name lebron, substitute pippen and i'm good. |
I can't. I know LeBron doesn't have a great Finals record, but he only had a stud #2 with Wade, and Wade wasn't prime on both ends of the floor like Pippen was. |
you could honestly say Scottie would be the third best SF behind Bird and James. See him more as a middle teens |
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doughboy90650
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| Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2015 7:10 am Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | | Quote: | | Bird wasn't playing with no slouch bigmen. |
Or guards. Dennis Johnson. |
Compton's Finest..... RIP |
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doughboy90650
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| Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2015 7:10 am Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | NOT IN ORDER
Duncan
Kobe
Shaq
Jordan
Hakeem
Magic
Bird
Kareem
Wilt
Russell |
these are the ten that get the majority from the many mags and articles on the subject ........ |
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Gatekeeper
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KobeBryantCliffordBrown
Star Player
Joined: 28 Apr 2008
Posts: 6429
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| Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2015 10:39 am Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | | moonriver24 wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | SuperboyReformed wrote: | | i basically agree with all the names here except for lebron. anywhere you see the name lebron, substitute pippen and i'm good. |
I can't. I know LeBron doesn't have a great Finals record, but he only had a stud #2 with Wade, and Wade wasn't prime on both ends of the floor like Pippen was. |
Pippen is worth considering because he could lead his team without MJ even though he lost to Ewing in conference finals. I doubt MJ would make it easier without Pippen as he had to carry the load of a playmaker throughout the series and do it without the best defender in his team.
I think Pippen is a victim of supporting cast label for too long. |
I never thought of him as a supporting cast player. He's one of my favorite players.
But Top 10? There are too many dynamic shot creators that are elite defenders too. |
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focus
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Joined: 23 May 2012
Posts: 2526
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| Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2015 11:03 am Post subject: |
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No brainers within 10
MJ, Kareem, Magic, Kobe, Wilt, Russell, Dream, Bird, Duncan. Back and forth so 'brainer' between Lebron today and Shaq. In today's league I think Lebron will get 1 more as a leader, possibly more, so that would put Shaq at 11. Shaq IMO should have been there with MJ, Kareem and maybe Russell and Kobe as GOAT discussion topics. Out of all in top 11, guy who performed least to potential, and that's a no-brainer to me. Considering his peak times, I have a hard time seeing anyone even on this list being more dominant, though yes equally dominant for each. |
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SuperboyReformed
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| Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2015 11:58 am Post subject: |
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| doughboy90650 wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | Quote: | | Bird wasn't playing with no slouch bigmen. |
Or guards. Dennis Johnson. |
Compton's Finest..... RIP |
couldn't stand that guy...but he was good. that 80s hate was strong stuff. rip indeed...respect. |
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Treble Clef
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Joined: 20 Nov 2012
Posts: 23913
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| Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2015 12:48 pm Post subject: |
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| moonriver24 wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | SuperboyReformed wrote: | | i basically agree with all the names here except for lebron. anywhere you see the name lebron, substitute pippen and i'm good. |
I can't. I know LeBron doesn't have a great Finals record, but he only had a stud #2 with Wade, and Wade wasn't prime on both ends of the floor like Pippen was. |
Pippen is worth considering because he could lead his team without MJ even though he lost to Ewing in conference finals. I doubt MJ would make it easier without Pippen as he had to carry the load of a playmaker throughout the series and do it without the best defender in his team.
I think Pippen is a victim of supporting cast label for too long. |
Pippen never led a team to a conference finals and I don't think it would be a notable accomplishment even if he had. |
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activeverb
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Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 37470
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| Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2015 1:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Treble Clef wrote: | | moonriver24 wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | SuperboyReformed wrote: | | i basically agree with all the names here except for lebron. anywhere you see the name lebron, substitute pippen and i'm good. |
I can't. I know LeBron doesn't have a great Finals record, but he only had a stud #2 with Wade, and Wade wasn't prime on both ends of the floor like Pippen was. |
Pippen is worth considering because he could lead his team without MJ even though he lost to Ewing in conference finals. I doubt MJ would make it easier without Pippen as he had to carry the load of a playmaker throughout the series and do it without the best defender in his team.
I think Pippen is a victim of supporting cast label for too long. |
Pippen never led a team to a conference finals and I don't think it would be a notable accomplishment even if he had. |
Pippen is the same category of a Kevin McHale -- great #2 on a dynasty. The trouble is the sweeping generalizations -- "supporting cast," "scrub," etc. -- as if there is simply a few GOAT level guys and everyone else.
Pippen's in the Hall of Fame and Top 50 Team. He's gotten his due and then some.
I agree it's hard to give Pippen credit for "leading" the Bulls, since he only led them to the same place that John Walls led the Wizards this year. |
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Treble Clef
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Joined: 20 Nov 2012
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| Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2015 1:21 pm Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | | Treble Clef wrote: | | moonriver24 wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | SuperboyReformed wrote: | | i basically agree with all the names here except for lebron. anywhere you see the name lebron, substitute pippen and i'm good. |
I can't. I know LeBron doesn't have a great Finals record, but he only had a stud #2 with Wade, and Wade wasn't prime on both ends of the floor like Pippen was. |
Pippen is worth considering because he could lead his team without MJ even though he lost to Ewing in conference finals. I doubt MJ would make it easier without Pippen as he had to carry the load of a playmaker throughout the series and do it without the best defender in his team.
I think Pippen is a victim of supporting cast label for too long. |
Pippen never led a team to a conference finals and I don't think it would be a notable accomplishment even if he had. |
Pippen is the same category of a Kevin McHale -- great #2 on a dynasty. The trouble is the sweeping generalizations -- "supporting cast," "scrub," etc. -- as if there is simply a few GOAT level guys and everyone else.
Pippen's in the Hall of Fame and Top 50 Team. He's gotten his due and then some.
I agree it's hard to give Pippen credit for "leading" the Bulls, since he only led them to the same place that John Walls led the Wizards this year. |
And it's funny that he's trying to give credit to Pippen for merely leading a team to the 2nd round and places that accomplishment over a guy who's leading a team to finals in that same conference year after year.
I think this was just a crafty way to try to bring down LeBron while also trying to pull Jordan down as well. If he can sneak Pippen in as a top 10 player of all time player, it makes Jordan's accomplishments less impressive. |
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activeverb
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Posts: 37470
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| Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2015 1:43 pm Post subject: |
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| SuperboyReformed wrote: | | PurpleAndGOAT wrote: | | vanexelent wrote: | | SuperboyReformed wrote: | | vanexelent wrote: | | PurpleAndGOAT wrote: | Jordan
Magic
Kobe
Bird
Kareem
Duncan
Shaq
Wilt
Lebron
Hakeem |
Bird over Kareem? |
no way. kareem is the only one in that list you can place above jordan for the #1 slot, and you'd have a case for it. Kobe, too, but that's just me. |
Kareem yes. Kobe no. Most skilled player, sure. But not career, total package wise. |
I put Bird over Kareem because 5 of Kareem's titles came with having the greatest point guard of all time and one of the deepest teams in NBA history on the Showtime Lakers while Bird was the clear cut #1 player on a Celtics team that was able to win 3 titles in the 80s despite one of the greatest teams of all time in the Showtime Lakers being in their prime as a team |
Bird wasn't playing with no slouch bigmen. |
It's also weird that he dings Kareem for playing with Magic, but he doesn't penalize Magic for playing with Kareem.
Bird's team were just as talented and deep as the Lakers. He won three rings, and each time he had three Hall of Fame teammates in the starting lineup. For his third ring, he also had a Hall of Famer/former MVP coming off the bench. |
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mhan00
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| Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2015 2:48 pm Post subject: |
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Kareem
Magic
Jordan
Wilt
Bird
Kobe
Shaq
Russell
Duncan
Hakeem
I also want to add I think Kareem is far and away the best to ever play the game and I think it's nuts how he's passed over for consideration for GOAT as often as he is. |
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caesar
Starting Rotation
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Posts: 250
Location: Vegas, baby!
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| Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2015 3:01 pm Post subject: |
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What did Jordan win without Pippen?
Kobe
Shaq
Magic
Kareem
Hakeem
Isiah
Jordan
Wilt
Duncan
Lebron |
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Moses
Star Player
Joined: 23 Aug 2008
Posts: 8270
Location: London
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| Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2015 8:43 am Post subject: |
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People say what did Jordan win without Pip, but what did any HOF player win without great team mates?
You could literally say that about any player in NBA history that won a title.
Does anyone think the Bulls would've won those titles without MJ?
6 trips to the finals, 6 rings, 6 finals MVPs, GOAT.
As for top 10 "no brainers", I'd add the following:
MJ
Kareem
Magic
Wilt
Bird
Shaq
Kobe
I think anyone else is likely to be dependent on who makes the list, if it was me I'd have Hakeem, Duncan & Russell to round out my top 10, but I'm not sure others would.
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