People say what did Jordan win without Pip, but what did any HOF player win without great team mates? .
People like to do the "my guy's teammates were worse than your guy's teammate" thing. This argument tends to derail pretty quick, because it's so in the eye of the beholder. The "my guy did more with less" argument is a quick way to glaze over people's eyeballs.
Russell and Wilt should not be in a top 10 list anywhere. They play in a (bleep) era with stack team and no where near the 30 teams we have today. Hell even CP3/Griffin Clippers probably could have won 11 championship.
Here are my list in no order.
Jordan
Kobe
Shaq
Duncan
Hakeem
Magic
Kareem
Bird
The last two could be anyone and no it not overrated Wilt or Russell. Could be LeBron but even when he has a stack team, he more than often fail to deliver aka 2 out of 6 in the final. Also he travel far too much. _________________ I will make better threads.
I mean these guys are all definitely top ten, although KD could come in and knock them down a few pegs if he isn't hindered by his feet
Sadly, I don't think Durant will enter the Top 10 even, probably not even top 20 overall. He'll have to go on an absolute tear over the next 5 seasons, winning multiple championships and putting up the same amazing stats he used to. That OKC team has maxed out, imo. Skill wise, Durant is up there with Jordan, Kobe and Bird though.
I mean these guys are all definitely top ten, although KD could come in and knock them down a few pegs if he isn't hindered by his feet
Sadly, I don't think Durant will enter the Top 10 even, probably not even top 20 overall. He'll have to go on an absolute tear over the next 5 seasons, winning multiple championships and putting up the same amazing stats he used to. That OKC team has maxed out, imo. Skill wise, Durant is up there with Jordan, Kobe and Bird though.
He's already top 25ish.
And I give no ***** about the "skill" competition. It's about who's the best basketball player. Why would I care how pretty a guy looks if he's not as good as someone else? I will NEVER put any weight into the "skillz" argument when thinking of my personal top NBA players. It's just as bad as the "RINGZ" argument.
I mean these guys are all definitely top ten, although KD could come in and knock them down a few pegs if he isn't hindered by his feet
Sadly, I don't think Durant will enter the Top 10 even, probably not even top 20 overall. He'll have to go on an absolute tear over the next 5 seasons, winning multiple championships and putting up the same amazing stats he used to. That OKC team has maxed out, imo. Skill wise, Durant is up there with Jordan, Kobe and Bird though.
He's already top 25ish.
And I give no ***** about the "skill" competition. It's about who's the best basketball player. Why would I care how pretty a guy looks if he's not as good as someone else? I will NEVER put any weight into the "skillz" argument when thinking of my personal top NBA players. It's just as bad as the "RINGZ" argument.
It's hard to get a firm grasp of how someone stands on the all-time list while they are in the middle of their career. That said, I generally see Durant ranked in the high 30s and low 40s on these types of lists.
Joined: 24 Dec 2007 Posts: 35812 Location: Santa Clarita, CA (Hell) ->>>>>Ithaca, NY -≥≥≥≥≥Berkeley, CA
Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2015 12:44 pm Post subject:
Michael Jordan-- Six rings, intensity rivaled only by Kobe
Wilt Chamberlain-- 100 points in one game
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar-- Longevity, greatest center to ever play
Magic Johnson-- Greatest passer of all time
Kobe Bryant-- Insane competitiveness and work ethic
Tim Duncan-- Cornerstone of a team that's been contending for over a decade
Antawn Jamison-- Absolute freak on both ends of the floor, arguably the most complete player to ever play the game, ultimate teammate.
Hakeem Olajuwon-- Greatest footwork of all-time
Bill Russell-- Eleven rings
Shaquille O'Neal-- Most dominant physical force to ever play. _________________ Damian Lillard shatters Dwight Coward's championship dreams:
Michael Jordan-- Six rings, intensity rivaled only by Kobe
Wilt Chamberlain-- 100 points in one game
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar-- Longevity, greatest center to ever play
Magic Johnson-- Greatest passer of all time
Kobe Bryant-- Insane competitiveness and work ethic
Tim Duncan-- Cornerstone of a team that's been contending for over a decade
Antawn Jamison-- Absolute freak on both ends of the floor, arguably the most complete player to ever play the game, ultimate teammate.
Hakeem Olajuwon-- Greatest footwork of all-time
Bill Russell-- Eleven rings
Shaquille O'Neal-- Most dominant physical force to ever play.
This is a test: Which one of these players is not like the others?
Joined: 24 Dec 2007 Posts: 35812 Location: Santa Clarita, CA (Hell) ->>>>>Ithaca, NY -≥≥≥≥≥Berkeley, CA
Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2015 1:26 pm Post subject:
activeverb wrote:
CandyCanes wrote:
Michael Jordan-- Six rings, intensity rivaled only by Kobe
Wilt Chamberlain-- 100 points in one game
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar-- Longevity, greatest center to ever play
Magic Johnson-- Greatest passer of all time
Kobe Bryant-- Insane competitiveness and work ethic
Tim Duncan-- Cornerstone of a team that's been contending for over a decade
Antawn Jamison-- Absolute freak on both ends of the floor, arguably the most complete player to ever play the game, ultimate teammate.
Hakeem Olajuwon-- Greatest footwork of all-time
Bill Russell-- Eleven rings
Shaquille O'Neal-- Most dominant physical force to ever play.
This is a test: Which one of these players is not like the others?
You can argue that Shaq lacked the professionalism and competitive drive of the other nine, but that's more than compensated for by his athleticism and sheer power. He's definitely towards the bottom of the top ten-- with those two traits, he would probably have been in the top 3. _________________ Damian Lillard shatters Dwight Coward's championship dreams:
I mean these guys are all definitely top ten, although KD could come in and knock them down a few pegs if he isn't hindered by his feet
Sadly, I don't think Durant will enter the Top 10 even, probably not even top 20 overall. He'll have to go on an absolute tear over the next 5 seasons, winning multiple championships and putting up the same amazing stats he used to. That OKC team has maxed out, imo. Skill wise, Durant is up there with Jordan, Kobe and Bird though.
He's already top 25ish.
And I give no ***** about the "skill" competition. It's about who's the best basketball player. Why would I care how pretty a guy looks if he's not as good as someone else? I will NEVER put any weight into the "skillz" argument when thinking of my personal top NBA players. It's just as bad as the "RINGZ" argument.
Not sure what looking pretty has to do with skill, but judging from you placing Lebron in the top 5, I think I see why you take offense to players who have a wide range of shots in their arsenal, great footwork, and the ability to turn the game into an artistry.
Michael Jordan-- Six rings, intensity rivaled only by Kobe
Wilt Chamberlain-- 100 points in one game
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar-- Longevity, greatest center to ever play
Magic Johnson-- Greatest passer of all time
Kobe Bryant-- Insane competitiveness and work ethic
Tim Duncan-- Cornerstone of a team that's been contending for over a decade
Antawn Jamison-- Absolute freak on both ends of the floor, arguably the most complete player to ever play the game, ultimate teammate.
Hakeem Olajuwon-- Greatest footwork of all-time
Bill Russell-- Eleven rings
Shaquille O'Neal-- Most dominant physical force to ever play.
This is a test: Which one of these players is not like the others?
You can argue that Shaq lacked the professionalism and competitive drive of the other nine, but that's more than compensated for by his athleticism and sheer power. He's definitely towards the bottom of the top ten-- with those two traits, he would probably have been in the top 3.
it's awesome because i can't quite tell if it's deliberate or a slip of the mind. _________________ I believe everything the media tells me except for anything for which I have direct personal knowledge, which they always get wrong
Lebron is NOT a top 10 player for sure. Oscar Robertson was much better than he is!
Lebron is clearly a top 10 player already. Clearly. No doubt.
He's top 5, already, imo.
Some people think Lebron is in the top 10 already, some think he isn't.
Don't think we are close to a consensus on that one yet.
And considering he's in the middle of his career, he could still rise ... or fall.
There's no way I could put a guy in my top 10 with the piss-poor footwork that he has, his suspect jump shot, his chronic traveling and a known flopper. Unless he's bullying his way to the basket he's useless. Top 10 players can put a team on their backs and guide them to a champoinship. Lebron can't and has never done that. Combine that with him being a mental midget and I can't see how anybody could mention him in the same sentence as the all-time greats! I've seen just about all those guys that most people put in their top 10 and IMO only Kobe and Duncan belong on that list of all the players in the last 20 years...period!
Lebron is NOT a top 10 player for sure. Oscar Robertson was much better than he is!
Lebron is clearly a top 10 player already. Clearly. No doubt.
He's top 5, already, imo.
Some people think Lebron is in the top 10 already, some think he isn't.
Don't think we are close to a consensus on that one yet.
And considering he's in the middle of his career, he could still rise ... or fall.
There's no way I could put a guy in my top 10 with the piss-poor footwork that he has, his suspect jump shot, his chronic traveling and a known flopper. Unless he's bullying his way to the basket he's useless. Top 10 players can put a team on their backs and guide them to a champoinship. Lebron can't and has never done that. Combine that with him being a mental midget and I can't see how anybody could mention him in the same sentence as the all-time greats! I've seen just about all those guys that most people put in their top 10 and IMO only Kobe and Duncan belong on that list of all the players in the last 20 years...period!
I don't share your opinion. If Lebron is not yet in the top 10, he's just a little outside it. Hard for me to see anyone putting him much below 13th or so, and he's a reasonable entry into the top 10 right now in my opinion.
In terms of guys who have played in the last 20 years, MJ is a no-brainer for the list. And I'd say Shaq is just as deserving as either Kobe or Duncan. Hakeem is another guy who has played in the last 20 years who I think is a reasonable entry.
Last edited by activeverb on Thu Jul 16, 2015 7:36 pm; edited 1 time in total
No brainers: Jordan, Magic, Kareem, Wilt, and Bird, plus Russell has to be in there somewhere. Beyond that, there just aren't enough slots for all of the candidates, so no one is a no-brainer. Hakeem, Snaq, Duncan, Lebron, and Kobe -- five players for four chairs. Other people would consider Oscar, West, Dr. J, Moses, and Mikan, but I don't think any of those picks would withstand serious scrutiny. Still, if someone wants to stick Oscar or Jerry in their top 10, it's not an outrageous pick.
I can see the arguments for all 5 of these guys to be taken over the other 4.
Shaq
Dream
Duncan
LeBron
Kobe
You know I think it's hilarious how the world operates. Kobe not in the list above, but Lebron is in the list below The bias never ends against Kobe. Lebron does NOT belong on that list, and Kobe is an auto lock up there. Do we have to watch highlight reels together for you to understand how great Kobe was? Like DAMN the man was wrecking the league not too long ago, but people forget, because they WANT to forget.
Most polarizing athlete ever. Never seen someone so great receive the flack that he gets.
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The bias never ends against Kobe. Lebron does NOT belong on that list, and Kobe is an auto lock up there. Do we have to watch highlight reels together for you to understand how great Kobe was? Like DAMN the man was wrecking the league not too long ago, but people forget, because they WANT to forget.
