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fontana3d
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 Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2015 6:27 pm Post subject: |
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| scoobs wrote: | | PakaLOLO wrote: | | Saw on Rotoworld that lakers are still in play for Demarcus. Couldn't find much anywhere else |
Why not consolidate Randle/Hibbert/Clarkson/Black into Cousins? He would form a good big 3 with Russell and Kobe and some good role players. |
You mean only the big 2 because Kobe a it what he used to be and Russell is not developed yet. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2015 6:59 pm Post subject: |
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| M2K wrote: | | scoobs wrote: | | PakaLOLO wrote: | | Saw on Rotoworld that lakers are still in play for Demarcus. Couldn't find much anywhere else |
Why not consolidate Randle/Hibbert/Clarkson/Black into Cousins? He would form a good big 3 with Russell and Kobe and some good role players. |
I would trade Hibbert & Randle for Cousins today. |
And why would Sacto?
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KobeDunk
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Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2015 7:22 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | M2K wrote: | | scoobs wrote: | | PakaLOLO wrote: | | Saw on Rotoworld that lakers are still in play for Demarcus. Couldn't find much anywhere else |
Why not consolidate Randle/Hibbert/Clarkson/Black into Cousins? He would form a good big 3 with Russell and Kobe and some good role players. |
I would trade Hibbert & Randle for Cousins today. |
And why would Sacto? |
basketball reasons |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2015 7:41 am Post subject: |
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| KobeDunk wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | M2K wrote: | | scoobs wrote: | | PakaLOLO wrote: | | Saw on Rotoworld that lakers are still in play for Demarcus. Couldn't find much anywhere else |
Why not consolidate Randle/Hibbert/Clarkson/Black into Cousins? He would form a good big 3 with Russell and Kobe and some good role players. |
I would trade Hibbert & Randle for Cousins today. |
And why would Sacto? |
basketball reasons |
And when's the last time "basketball reasons" was a positive thing for the Lakers?
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venturalakersfan
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Joined: 14 Apr 2001
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Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2015 8:36 am Post subject: |
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| scoobs wrote: | | PakaLOLO wrote: | | Saw on Rotoworld that lakers are still in play for Demarcus. Couldn't find much anywhere else |
Why not consolidate Randle/Hibbert/Clarkson/Black into Cousins? He would form a good big 3 with Russell and Kobe and some good role players. |
Because Randle/Hibbert/Clarkson/Black >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cousins?
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22
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| Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2015 9:15 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | scoobs wrote: | | PakaLOLO wrote: | | Saw on Rotoworld that lakers are still in play for Demarcus. Couldn't find much anywhere else |
Why not consolidate Randle/Hibbert/Clarkson/Black into Cousins? He would form a good big 3 with Russell and Kobe and some good role players. |
Because Randle/Hibbert/Clarkson/Black >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cousins? |
So true! and yet scoobs likely won't give up this fascination |
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KobeDunk
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| Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2015 11:50 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | KobeDunk wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | M2K wrote: | | scoobs wrote: | | PakaLOLO wrote: | | Saw on Rotoworld that lakers are still in play for Demarcus. Couldn't find much anywhere else |
Why not consolidate Randle/Hibbert/Clarkson/Black into Cousins? He would form a good big 3 with Russell and Kobe and some good role players. |
I would trade Hibbert & Randle for Cousins today. |
And why would Sacto? |
basketball reasons |
And when's the last time "basketball reasons" was a positive thing for the Lakers? |
this time it will be positive!   |
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Chad09
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| Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2015 4:21 pm Post subject: |
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| “DeMarcus Cousins. Look, again, Sacramento I think wants to hold onto him. Certainly, owner Vivek Ranadive absolutely wants to hold onto DeMarcus Cousins. But I’ve been told that if you polled the rest of the organization, the vast majority are in favor of trading DeMarcus Cousins and that would include, though he denies it, Coach George Karl.” |
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Bard207
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| Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2015 5:48 am Post subject: |
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| Chad09 wrote: | | “DeMarcus Cousins. Look, again, Sacramento I think wants to hold onto him. Certainly, owner Vivek Ranadive absolutely wants to hold onto DeMarcus Cousins. But I’ve been told that if you polled the rest of the organization, the vast majority are in favor of trading DeMarcus Cousins and that would include, though he denies it, Coach George Karl.” |
You wrote this? |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2015 5:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Chad09 wrote: | | “DeMarcus Cousins. Look, again, Sacramento I think wants to hold onto him. Certainly, owner Vivek Ranadive absolutely wants to hold onto DeMarcus Cousins. But I’ve been told that if you polled the rest of the organization, the vast majority are in favor of trading DeMarcus Cousins and that would include, though he denies it, Coach George Karl.” |
Cousins has the support of the only person that matters.
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Chad09
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| Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 9:28 pm Post subject: |
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It's from YS.
Let's remember to post a link to anything quoted. Not only does it source your post, but many of us like reading the entire article.
Thanks - JMK |
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LakersMDGurl
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| Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2015 10:34 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | Chad09 wrote: | | “DeMarcus Cousins. Look, again, Sacramento I think wants to hold onto him. Certainly, owner Vivek Ranadive absolutely wants to hold onto DeMarcus Cousins. But I’ve been told that if you polled the rest of the organization, the vast majority are in favor of trading DeMarcus Cousins and that would include, though he denies it, Coach George Karl.” |
Cousins has the support of the only person that matters. |
So did Bynum, he eventually got traded!!!
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scoobs
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| Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 4:50 pm Post subject: |
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Trade idea:
Lakers get: Cousins
Sac gets: Clarkson, Randle, Nance and Hibbert
Why for Lakers?
We get a bonified 25ppg/12rpg/1.5bpg center that would be a great complement to Russell in the long term. He also has a reasonable cost controlled contract for 3 years.
Why for Kings?
He wants out, they are able to get good young pieces for him. Randle would be a great pf to run on side WCS in Karl's offense. JC would be the long term pg for them with Rondo on a fast decline. Karl loves those quick point guards. Nance is a Shawn Kemp like athlete at the power forward position. They would be lob city north with WCS and Nance. This would help sell tickets. They could try to flip Hibbert to a team in need of a center or they could use him to mentor WCS. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 5:14 pm Post subject: |
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Kings say no thanks still. They're not trading him especially with his ridiculous deal.
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kikanga
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| Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 9:12 pm Post subject: |
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I really disliked some of the arguments against trading for Cousins this past offseason.
Some didn't want to give up capspace by trading our pick (a 5 mill annual contract) for a higher paid player in Cousins (13 mill annually).
Cousins is a great value at his price, and he would have given us an all star.
Of course we didn't sign another star FA again this offseason (with our treasured cap space).
And now, chances are lwe'll have a ton of cap space and no star on the roster after this upcoming season.
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THE_DAGGER
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| Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2015 12:53 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | The Kings demanded all three of Clarkson, Randle, and Russell plus even MORE assets. Any discussion of a one for one trade for the #2 pick is just pure fantasy |
The initial rumoured three way deal was the Magic got the 2nd pick, the King got the 5th pick and Vucevic, and we got Cousins and the 6th pick.
Yes, Cousins AND the 6th pick. To me that would have been a fleece for us.
So, the demand for Clarkson, Randle, and Russell plus more that would have fleeced us was actually a counter offer to us trying to fleece them in the first place.
The next step would have been to meet in the middle. But, after the draft neither team called each other back according to reports. Even though we were still willing to part with Russell as part of a trade for Cousins after the draft, also according to reports.
I don't think many, if any, teams can top the 2nd pick Russell and Hibbert plus other assets for Cousins this season.
If they can, would they be willing to? If they would be willing to, would it be worth it after giving up what you had to give up to get Cousins?
The Celtics have a slew of 1st round picks, but they're all pretty much lottery protected. They don't have young players currently on the roster that are more or as enticing as Russell.
What other teams are possibilities? |
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fiendishoc
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| Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2015 1:01 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | 2nd pick Russell and Hibbert plus other assets |
You have to name the other assets to consider this a valid offer. As you noted, the reports were that the Lakers were willing to give up Russell/ #2 pick for Cousins. Hibbert cost only a second rounder, and would have been redundant, not to mention necessary for cap purposes, so it's basically the same as Russell straight up. And the Kings didn't want it.
We don't really have any other assets outside of Randle and Clarkson- even our future first round picks are in short supply- so what realistically would have been the offer that the Kings would have accepted? |
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THE_DAGGER
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| Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2015 2:17 am Post subject: |
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I don't believe it's basically Russell straight up if Hibbert is involved. I don't like where you're trying to take this. I'm not going to go in circles with you.
You're asking me questions without answering the questions proposed to you. You can't name other teams that can offer better. |
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fiendishoc
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| Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2015 2:45 am Post subject: |
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| THE_DAGGER wrote: | I don't believe it's basically Russell straight up if Hibbert is involved. I don't like where you're trying to take this. I'm not going to go in circles with you.
You're asking me questions without answering the questions proposed to you. You can't name other teams that can offer better. |
It's not that complicated now. You think that the Kings would have taken a Russell + Hibbert package. I think it's pretty clear that they wouldn't have based on what I stated above. Under the cap rules it's likely impossible trade Russell for Cousins without also trading Hibbert, and Hibbert's value on the trade market was a future second round draft pick.
The Kings don't have to trade Cousins this year. They have him under contract until 2018. The sensible thing is to make it work with him, or wait till they get an offer they think offers equal return. |
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THE_DAGGER
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| Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2015 3:05 am Post subject: |
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| fiendishoc wrote: | | THE_DAGGER wrote: | I don't believe it's basically Russell straight up if Hibbert is involved. I don't like where you're trying to take this. I'm not going to go in circles with you.
You're asking me questions without answering the questions proposed to you. You can't name other teams that can offer better. |
It's not that complicated now. You think that the Kings would have taken a Russell + Hibbert package. I think it's pretty clear that they wouldn't have based on what I stated above. Under the cap rules it's likely impossible trade Russell for Cousins without also trading Hibbert, and Hibbert's value on the trade market was a future second round draft pick.
The Kings don't have to trade Cousins this year. They have him under contract until 2018. The sensible thing is to make it work with him, or wait till they get an offer they think offers equal return. |
So, you don't think Hibbert has any worth as a player?
Hibbert was never included in the trade discussion at the time because he wasn't on our team. And right now a trade can't be done because Russell is signed and Hibbert can't be combined with other players in a trade until next month.
If it's not complicated then tell me what other teams can offer better than us this season?
It's smart for the Kings to take a wait and see approach, but for how long?
This year we have the best offer if they choose to trade Cousins. It's in play until the trade deadline unless they have success to start the season. |
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fiendishoc
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| Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2015 3:30 am Post subject: |
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The guy just traded for a second round pick because he has a big salary and an expiring contract in a market where no team is dying for cap space next year.
That's not going to make the Kings change their minds about the trade any time soon, not when they have a couple years to wait for better deals or try to make it work with Cousins. Hibbert would be a one year rental for them. |
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dabask11
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| Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2015 10:11 am Post subject: |
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| I'm all for trading cousins at the right price but I can't shake the feeling he's more of a robin than a batman. The biggest concern I have is a mediocre situation like sac, where his play isn't good enough to attract free agents but not bad enough to have a top 3 pick. |
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Bard207
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| Posted: Sun Aug 30, 2015 2:17 am Post subject: |
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| THE_DAGGER wrote: | I don't believe it's basically Russell straight up if Hibbert is involved. I don't like where you're trying to take this. I'm not going to go in circles with you.
You're asking me questions without answering the questions proposed to you. You can't name other teams that can offer better. |
| THE_DAGGER wrote: |
I don't think many, if any, teams can top the 2nd pick Russell and Hibbert plus other assets for Cousins this season.
If they can, would they be willing to? If they would be willing to, would it be worth it after giving up what you had to give up to get Cousins?
The Celtics have a slew of 1st round picks, but they're all pretty much lottery protected. They don't have young players currently on the roster that are more or as enticing as Russell.
What other teams are possibilities? |
Your questions are based on the premise that Sacramento has to trade Cousins ASAP. Because that isn't so, there is little need to explore those scenarios.
The only thing that I can think of in the other assets category was the Cap Space available prior to:
* Signing Lou Williams
* Signing Brandon Bass
* The trade for Hibbert
I have no idea if Mitch would have done this trade or similar:
Russell (or rights to) + Clarkson + Black + Future First Round pick (unprotected) for Cousins + Thompson + Landry. * #
The Laker fanbase probably wouldn't have been thrilled with that trade or similar since it would be less than the major Win that most are expecting the FO to get in a trade.
It is also unknown if Vlade would have done that trade or similar. It wouldn't have been the optimal package that he was seeking, but it would have been much better than the Russell + Hibbert offer that you are currently suggesting.
It would have left the Kings with Cap Space and the positives they sent to Philly which was Stauskas, a protected First Round pick and the rights for two future pick swaps.
A very young and unbalanced roster:
Collison, D Russell
McLemore, Clarkson, Stauskas
Gay,
WCS
Black
Vlade would still be able to sign K Koufos and Casspi, but probably would skip signing Rondo and possibly Belinelli.
Collison, D Russell
McLemore, Clarkson, Stauskas
Gay, Casspi
WCS,
Koufos, Black
I don't know if D Carroll would have chosen to sign with Sacramento if they would have offered him the same package that Toronto did, but if he would have:
Collison, D Russell
McLemore, Clarkson, Stauskas
D Carroll, Gay, Casspi
Gay, WCS,
Koufos, Black
Still some tweaking to be done with a need to move at least one of the backcourt players ( Collison, Clarkson, McLemore and Stauskas) for front court depth, but it wouldn't be a terrible roster. Implement an offense that borrows ideas from the Hawks, Warriors, Spurs etc and they would be entertaining to watch.
At the moment, the Kings have a sense of urgency to try and make the Playoffs, so the scenario above probably would have been difficult to sell to their owner and fanbase.
Once the Kings made the trade with Philly to move the contracts of Thompson and Landry in early July, the window for the Lakers to obtain Cousins this season was closed from my POV.
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* The salaries involved and available Cap Space would have been fairly close with perhaps a need to include an additional minor contract.
# There could also be a variation of the scenario with Randle substituted for Clarkson. |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Sun Aug 30, 2015 10:12 am Post subject: |
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| THE_DAGGER wrote: | I don't believe it's basically Russell straight up if Hibbert is involved. I don't like where you're trying to take this. I'm not going to go in circles with you.
You're asking me questions without answering the questions proposed to you. You can't name other teams that can offer better. |
Why waste our time when the Kings obviously don't want to trade Cousins?
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THE_DAGGER
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| Posted: Sun Aug 30, 2015 4:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Bard207 wrote: | Your questions are based on the premise that Sacramento has to trade Cousins ASAP. Because that isn't so, there is little need to explore those scenarios.
At the moment, the Kings have a sense of urgency to try and make the Playoffs, so the scenario above probably would have been difficult to sell to their owner and fanbase.
Once the Kings made the trade with Philly to move the contracts of Thompson and Landry in early July, the window for the Lakers to obtain Cousins this season was closed from my POV. |
I'm basing things on the premise that the Kings have already explored a trade with us at this point. The seed's already planted. If things don't work out the way they want before the trade deadline and they look to trade Cousins again I believe we have the best deal for them this season. That's where I'm coming from.
They might wait until his deal is about to expire. But, they might not. We have to be ready for the opportunity at any time.
Their new arena is scheduled to open October 2016. They want momentum going into that. Right now that means trying to make the playoffs. But, it could easily and quickly turn to getting a new young player to be excited about and to build around.
Let that be Russell for them. Hibbert might help them not completely fall off the cliff without Cousins this season. Plus he could re-sign with them or just come off the books. Other players or picks from us also might intrigue them.
Your trade scenario seems like it could have worked. But, we wanted to save cap space for free agents.
I'd trade Clarkson alongside Russell then, now, and later, but we'd need a PG in return. If that's Collison then it can happen soon. If that's Rondo then we'd have to wait until December. Or a third team could get involved.
You don't close the door completely shut. You leave it cracked open just in case. We had the same standing offer for Dwight Howard for a year. The Magic waited to take it until his contract was about to expire to take it. But, it was the same offer and it was there the whole time. We never took it off the table. |
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