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crucifixion
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 Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 1:20 pm Post subject: |
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I would not say my mind's made up about him but I am fairly confident in what I believe his maximum level will be. But I'm still open.
If he's traded this off season to get say Jimmy Butler, I won't feel sad he's gone. And if he's still here, I still won't feel sad because that means we probably got Brook and Melo and/or more instead so I'll be happy to see what he can do with them. |
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Vancouver Fan
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| Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 1:21 pm Post subject: |
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Now, "Byron and Luke are singing the same song." My goodness. That's not even being close to accurate.
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Vancouver Fan
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| Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 1:22 pm Post subject: |
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Funny thing is, all this bull (bleep) after an amazing game by the young fella. Foh.
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Lonzo-Lite
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| Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 1:26 pm Post subject: |
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Anyone who brings up Devin Booker should get an automatic ignore. That bandwagon of new Booker fans in these last 5 days make the Okafor/Mudiay sound more sane.
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GoldenThroat
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| Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 1:30 pm Post subject: |
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| crucifixion wrote: | I would not say my mind's made up about him but I am fairly confident in what I believe his maximum level will be. But I'm still open.
If he's traded this off season to get say Jimmy Butler, I won't feel sad he's gone. And if he's still here, I still won't feel sad because that means we probably got Brook and Melo and/or more instead so I'll be happy to see what he can do with them. |
"I think he's a 6th man on a championship team"
"We can trade him for Jimmy Butler though"
"Oh, and Jimmy Butler + Brook Lopez + Carmelo Anthony sounds exciting" |
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Lonzo-Lite
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| Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 1:31 pm Post subject: |
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I haven't been very high on DLO at the start of this season, but I'm liking the progress he's making in only his 2nd year. He's already ahead of Billups whom someone here compared him too, or even HOF like Steve Nash by their 2nd seasons.
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justsomelakerfan
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| Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 1:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Vancouver Fan wrote: | | Now, "Byron and Luke are singing the same song." My goodness. That's not even being close to accurate. |
I cape for him a lot but Luke's had a lot of Byron moments this year. He's just not an (bleep) about it - which was maybe my biggest issue with Byron, even moreso than his coaching. He couldn't get anything good to happen on the court and his players weren't thrilled about playing for him
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sonn
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| Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 1:32 pm Post subject: |
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BynumForThree
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| Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 1:40 pm Post subject: |
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| crucifixion wrote: | | I agree. But I don't think people are bashing Dlo, just stating what they see. I think it's the hard core Dlo fans, similar to those Kobe first fans, who use irrelevant stats to justify their affection for the player. For example why constantly harp on per 36 stats when that's practically an artificial number. If the dude isn't good enough to warrant 36 mins by his coach then why reward him by projecting what he could've had. No, if he was good enough to play 36 mins he would. |
I don't think you understand how per36 is supposed to be interpreted. It isn't projecting anything, it's helps to quantify their production per minute. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 1:43 pm Post subject: |
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| BynumForThree wrote: | | crucifixion wrote: | | I agree. But I don't think people are bashing Dlo, just stating what they see. I think it's the hard core Dlo fans, similar to those Kobe first fans, who use irrelevant stats to justify their affection for the player. For example why constantly harp on per 36 stats when that's practically an artificial number. If the dude isn't good enough to warrant 36 mins by his coach then why reward him by projecting what he could've had. No, if he was good enough to play 36 mins he would. |
I don't think you understand how per36 is supposed to be interpreted. It isn't projecting anything, it's helps to quantify their production per minute. |
Yup. And it's not like we're taking a 12th man who plays 3 mpg and extrapolating per-36. In that context yes, not much meaning in per-36. But we're trying to see how effective DLO was given the 96/4 minutes that Luke was playing our guards...trying to see if he was given 6-7 mpg more what he'd produce (which is coincidentally around what Booker was given).
He has so far shown that the per-36 markers were correct about him.
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crucifixion
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| Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 1:46 pm Post subject: |
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| GoldenThroat wrote: | | crucifixion wrote: | I would not say my mind's made up about him but I am fairly confident in what I believe his maximum level will be. But I'm still open.
If he's traded this off season to get say Jimmy Butler, I won't feel sad he's gone. And if he's still here, I still won't feel sad because that means we probably got Brook and Melo and/or more instead so I'll be happy to see what he can do with them. |
"I think he's a 6th man on a championship team"
"We can trade him for Jimmy Butler though"
"Oh, and Jimmy Butler + Brook Lopez + Carmelo Anthony sounds exciting" |
Yeah see this is why I question your per 36 agenda. You have reading comprehension issues. No where did I say it was Jimmy/Brook/Melo. I was saying I'd be excited if it was Dlo/Brook/Melo. Maybe that wouldn't excite you but I'd be fully supportive of that, as I've posted before because we also get to keep Ingram and top 3 in my proposed scenarios.
And if you want to assume I meant Dlo straight up for Jimmy then that's fine, I'm not going to argue with you. You clearly have one vision and if others oppose it then you will chastise them for it and split words up out of context to ridicule them. So it's cool. |
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tox
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| Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 1:48 pm Post subject: |
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| crucifixion wrote: | | I agree. But I don't think people are bashing Dlo, just stating what they see. I think it's the hard core Dlo fans, similar to those Kobe first fans, who use irrelevant stats to justify their affection for the player. For example why constantly harp on per 36 stats when that's practically an artificial number. If the dude isn't good enough to warrant 36 mins by his coach then why reward him by projecting what he could've had. No, if he was good enough to play 36 mins he would. |
No, it's not that these stats are irrelevant and we are cherry picking them. It's that you literally do not understand the stats. Stop projecting your limitations on others around you. I guarantee you that you are in the bottom quartile of people on this thread in terms of properly understanding stats. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 1:49 pm Post subject: |
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oh man.
Time to get some popcorn.
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GoldenThroat
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| Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 1:50 pm Post subject: |
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| crucifixion wrote: | | GoldenThroat wrote: | | crucifixion wrote: | I would not say my mind's made up about him but I am fairly confident in what I believe his maximum level will be. But I'm still open.
If he's traded this off season to get say Jimmy Butler, I won't feel sad he's gone. And if he's still here, I still won't feel sad because that means we probably got Brook and Melo and/or more instead so I'll be happy to see what he can do with them. |
"I think he's a 6th man on a championship team"
"We can trade him for Jimmy Butler though"
"Oh, and Jimmy Butler + Brook Lopez + Carmelo Anthony sounds exciting" |
Yeah see this is why I question your per 36 agenda. You have reading comprehension issues. No where did I say it was Jimmy/Brook/Melo. I was saying I'd be excited if it was Dlo/Brook/Melo. Maybe that wouldn't excite you but I'd be fully supportive of that, as I've posted before because we also get to keep Ingram and top 3 in my proposed scenarios.
And if you want to assume I meant Dlo straight up for Jimmy then that's fine, I'm not going to argue with you. You clearly have one vision and if others oppose it then you will chastise them for it and split words up out of context to ridicule them. So it's cool. |
My "per-36 agenda".
You're correct that I read that wrong, but the Jimmy Butler part wasn't the hideous part of that trio. The point stands on Melo + Lopez. |
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justsomelakerfan
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| Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 1:53 pm Post subject: |
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Also, Lou Williams was playing absolutely out of his mind for the Lakers this season. 6th man, whatever, he was a flamethrower and offensively probably one of the best guards in the league (seriously, look at his per 36 with 24 mpg). I don't know how many young guards I'd take over how he played this season, certainly not Russell or Booker. That's a tough guy to bench to develop youth and still keep the respect of your team. Maybe. I don't know. I'm just hanging at Starbucks on a sick day and assuming that's how NBA coaching works lol
I'm not really holding it against Russell for not outplaying Lou Williams when you remember how (bleep) good he was anyway
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Baron Von Humongous
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| Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 1:57 pm Post subject: |
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| justsomelakerfan wrote: | Also, Lou Williams was playing absolutely out of his mind for the Lakers this season. 6th man, whatever, he was a flamethrower and offensively probably one of the best guards in the league (seriously, look at his per 36 with 24 mpg). I don't know how many young guards I'd take over how he played this season, certainly not Russell or Booker. That's a tough guy to bench to develop youth and still keep the respect of your team. Maybe. I don't know. I'm just hanging at Starbucks on a sick day and assuming that's how NBA coaching works lol
I'm not really holding it against Russell for not outplaying Lou Williams when you remember how (bleep) good he was anyway |
They should've played more minutes together is all. |
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OregonLakerGuy
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| Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 2:00 pm Post subject: |
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Just caught up on this thread. Great game from Russell last night, but this thread has been badly polluted by some dodgy agenda posters. I haven't heard the Kobe-first fan argument in a long while.
I will nominate "per 36 agenda" as the dumbest thing written in the current calendar year.  |
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Practice
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Joined: 14 Apr 2015
Posts: 4551
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| Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 2:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Reed @Reed_nba 7h7 hours ago
More
Russell's league wide ranks since the all star break:
PTS #28
3PM #9 (tied)
AST #33
STL #8 (tied)
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| Quote: | Reed @Reed_nba 6h6 hours ago
More
Russell's ranks among starting guards since the break:
PTS #16
3PM #8
AST #17
STL #6
USG% #18
eFG% #14
TS% #24
AST/TO #22 |
| Quote: | Reed @Reed_nba 6h6 hours ago
More
When your PG just turned 21, is putting up "Conley career year" stats, while surrounded by bad shooting/below avg roll men? You buckle up. |
So basically the guard one is out of 60+ players and the vast majority of these guys obviously have some years on him. |
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Mdstgreen
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Posts: 27
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| Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 2:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Practice wrote: | | Quote: | Reed @Reed_nba 7h7 hours ago
More
Russell's league wide ranks since the all star break:
PTS #28
3PM #9 (tied)
AST #33
STL #8 (tied)
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| Quote: | Reed @Reed_nba 6h6 hours ago
More
Russell's ranks among starting guards since the break:
PTS #16
3PM #8
AST #17
STL #6
USG% #18
eFG% #14
TS% #24
AST/TO #22 |
| Quote: | Reed @Reed_nba 6h6 hours ago
More
When your PG just turned 21, is putting up "Conley career year" stats, while surrounded by bad shooting/below avg roll men? You buckle up. |
So basically the guard one is out of 60+ players and the vast majority of these guys obviously have some years on him. |
Get out of here with your league-wide guard comparison agenda. |
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crucifixion
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| Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 2:08 pm Post subject: |
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| GoldenThroat wrote: | | crucifixion wrote: | | GoldenThroat wrote: | | crucifixion wrote: | I would not say my mind's made up about him but I am fairly confident in what I believe his maximum level will be. But I'm still open.
If he's traded this off season to get say Jimmy Butler, I won't feel sad he's gone. And if he's still here, I still won't feel sad because that means we probably got Brook and Melo and/or more instead so I'll be happy to see what he can do with them. |
"I think he's a 6th man on a championship team"
"We can trade him for Jimmy Butler though"
"Oh, and Jimmy Butler + Brook Lopez + Carmelo Anthony sounds exciting" |
Yeah see this is why I question your per 36 agenda. You have reading comprehension issues. No where did I say it was Jimmy/Brook/Melo. I was saying I'd be excited if it was Dlo/Brook/Melo. Maybe that wouldn't excite you but I'd be fully supportive of that, as I've posted before because we also get to keep Ingram and top 3 in my proposed scenarios.
And if you want to assume I meant Dlo straight up for Jimmy then that's fine, I'm not going to argue with you. You clearly have one vision and if others oppose it then you will chastise them for it and split words up out of context to ridicule them. So it's cool. |
My "per-36 agenda".
You're correct that I read that wrong, but the Jimmy Butler part wasn't the hideous part of that trio. The point stands on Melo + Lopez. |
That was part of a larger move that resulted in getting rid of Deng and Moz, so there are ancillary parts here that led to my overall excitement. And quite honestly I'd question your fanaticism towards the Lakers if you weren't happy with getting Brook and Melo while dumping Moz, Deng and keeping Dlo Ingram and top 3.
Anyways thank you for acknowledging your misread, that type of acknowledgment sadly doesn't happen on message boards frequently.
But back to Dlo, part of the reason I'm not a fan of per 36 is that the is no correlation that said player will achieve those estimates. So while it appears Dlo is capable of achieving his per 36, what about all the others who are projected with high per 36 but then never realize it when they play 36. So while Russel has achieved it in a small sample of games, there is nothing you can directly point to and say yes this is what he will achieve. In fact the only thing we can really go by is that two coaches in two years questioned his effort. That to me is one sign of immaturity and I don't know if he'll ever change that. |
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Practice
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Joined: 14 Apr 2015
Posts: 4551
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| Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 2:11 pm Post subject: |
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| crucifixion wrote: | | GoldenThroat wrote: | | crucifixion wrote: | | GoldenThroat wrote: | | crucifixion wrote: | I would not say my mind's made up about him but I am fairly confident in what I believe his maximum level will be. But I'm still open.
If he's traded this off season to get say Jimmy Butler, I won't feel sad he's gone. And if he's still here, I still won't feel sad because that means we probably got Brook and Melo and/or more instead so I'll be happy to see what he can do with them. |
"I think he's a 6th man on a championship team"
"We can trade him for Jimmy Butler though"
"Oh, and Jimmy Butler + Brook Lopez + Carmelo Anthony sounds exciting" |
Yeah see this is why I question your per 36 agenda. You have reading comprehension issues. No where did I say it was Jimmy/Brook/Melo. I was saying I'd be excited if it was Dlo/Brook/Melo. Maybe that wouldn't excite you but I'd be fully supportive of that, as I've posted before because we also get to keep Ingram and top 3 in my proposed scenarios.
And if you want to assume I meant Dlo straight up for Jimmy then that's fine, I'm not going to argue with you. You clearly have one vision and if others oppose it then you will chastise them for it and split words up out of context to ridicule them. So it's cool. |
My "per-36 agenda".
You're correct that I read that wrong, but the Jimmy Butler part wasn't the hideous part of that trio. The point stands on Melo + Lopez. |
That was part of a larger move that resulted in getting rid of Deng and Moz, so there are ancillary parts here that led to my overall excitement. And quite honestly I'd question your fanaticism towards the Lakers if you weren't happy with getting Brook and Melo while dumping Moz, Deng and keeping Dlo Ingram and top 3.
Anyways thank you for acknowledging your misread, that type of acknowledgment sadly doesn't happen on message boards frequently.
But back to Dlo, part of the reason I'm not a fan of per 36 is that the is no correlation that said player will achieve those estimates. So while it appears Dlo is capable of achieving his per 36, what about all the others who are projected with high per 36 but then never realize it when they play 36. So while Russel has achieved it in a small sample of games, there is nothing you can directly point to and say yes this is what he will achieve. In fact the only thing we can really go by is that two coaches in two years questioned his effort. That to me is one sign of immaturity and I don't know if he'll ever change that. |
The sample size with Russell post-Lou isn't really all that small anymore. |
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Fastbreak32
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Joined: 11 Oct 2011
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| Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 2:13 pm Post subject: |
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| tox wrote: | | Fastbreak32 wrote: | Per 36, Per 100 Possessions, and Advanced Stats of Russell, Conley, Curry, Ginobili, Harden, and Lowry in their 2nd seasons:
http://i.imgur.com/M6MScy3.jpg |
Wow, very similar to Curry's 2nd season. TS% has a long ways to go (frankly I'm not sure Russell will ever get to 60%) but aside from that, it's really comparable. Neat |
Yeah he might be something like Steph with the shooting ability of a mere mortal.
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crucifixion
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| Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 2:13 pm Post subject: |
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| I disagree. His statistical increase is post ASB. That is a small sample. Let's not forget this guy was putting up single digits and even a 0 in games earlier this year. |
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MJST
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| Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 2:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Nashlight wrote: | | I haven't been very high on DLO at the start of this season, but I'm liking the progress he's making in only his 2nd year. He's already ahead of Billups whom someone here compared him too, or even HOF like Steve Nash by their 2nd seasons. |
He's ahead of Harden too at that juncture
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tox
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Posts: 17880
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| Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 2:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | But back to Dlo, part of the reason I'm not a fan of per 36 is that the is no correlation that said player will achieve those estimates. So while it appears Dlo is capable of achieving his per 36, what about all the others who are projected with high per 36 but then never realize it when they play 36. So while Russel has achieved it in a small sample of games, there is nothing you can directly point to and say yes this is what he will achieve. In fact the only thing we can really go by is that two coaches in two years questioned his effort. That to me is one sign of immaturity and I don't know if he'll ever change that.
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And there lies your problem. At no point can you ever point to anyone and say "he will achieve" this. You can't even say LeBron will score 2 more points in the playoffs for a fact, because he might blow out his knee and just never recover. There are no sure things when it comes to projecting, and we can only speak in likelihoods. And yes, it is very likely LeBron will score 2 more points in the playoffs. Even if we can't say for sure.
Russell has put up consistent per-36 stats all season, including when he actually played 36 minutes. You're right that we can't know that he'll be able to sustain it for 82 games, but at least we can take a step back and acknowledge it's well within the realm of likelihood based on this season. You're just calling it a fluke based on literally no evidence. |
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