Larry Bird has a limited ceiling because he can run or jump.
Btw, Nikola Jokic, Marc Gasol, and Andre Miller have limited ceilings because they can't run or jump either.
Bird is the greatest skilled player ever. How many top 10 GOAT will have his career without their physical attributes? None
If Andre Miller was athletic, don't you think he will be at least a HOF player.
If Jokic and Gasol are athletic, don't you think they would have a higher ceiling. Imagine Jokic skill set on the Admiral body, would that be a bball fan pipe dream.
Not saying DLo won't be great, I just said he has a limited ceiling.
What if Jordan and LeBron could shoot like Steph Curry? What if Shaq could make free throws? What if Kareem had guard handles?
Everyone has things that they could do better. Doesn't necessarily mean they have a limited ceiling.
So if the skill set is equal, which one do you think has a higher ceiling ? An elite athlete or below the par athlete? Can you say that the latter will have a limited ceiling?
Can someone with Russell's athleticism be an All Star?
Yes.
Can someone with Russell's athleticism be a Hall of Famer?
Yes.
So really what you are talking about is the same type of hypothetical as Kobe having huge hands, Shaq being able to hit free throws, Bird being able to dribble and dunk over people, Jordan having modern range...
All would be nice, but to hold their shortcomings against them as some barrier to being great is to miss the things that they do very well and results in an unfair criticism.
Not unfair because it is inaccurate, but unfair in the weight it is given as a limiting factor in their future ceiling.
Again, we can nit-pick every player who has ever lived, but it is a BS way to evaluate.
Which one do you think has a higher ceiling? Dlo with athleticism or DLo .
Who has a higher ceiling DJ Mbenga with DLO's skills or DJ Mbenga?
I'll choose DJ Mbenga with Westbrook athleticism than DJ Mbenga with DLo skills. It will be like Gobert on steroids vs Jokic.
You would lose badly to the DJ Mbenga-DLO hybrid because MBenga already had superb athletism but little else to offer. After the humiliation, he would also eat all your
These hypotheticals hurt my head. _________________ LeBron, AD, & _________. Stay tuned.
"...there was a time when the Israelites were wandering in the desert and all of a sudden, bread came down from heaven,” Pelinka said. “That’s kind of what today feels like for us to have KCP join.”
Larry Bird has a limited ceiling because he can run or jump.
Btw, Nikola Jokic, Marc Gasol, and Andre Miller have limited ceilings because they can't run or jump either.
Bird is the greatest skilled player ever. How many top 10 GOAT will have his career without their physical attributes? None
If Andre Miller was athletic, don't you think he will be at least a HOF player.
If Jokic and Gasol are athletic, don't you think they would have a higher ceiling. Imagine Jokic skill set on the Admiral body, would that be a bball fan pipe dream.
Not saying DLo won't be great, I just said he has a limited ceiling.
What if Jordan and LeBron could shoot like Steph Curry? What if Shaq could make free throws? What if Kareem had guard handles?
Everyone has things that they could do better. Doesn't necessarily mean they have a limited ceiling.
So if the skill set is equal, which one do you think has a higher ceiling ? An elite athlete or below the par athlete? Can you say that the latter will have a limited ceiling?
Can someone with Russell's athleticism be an All Star?
Yes.
Can someone with Russell's athleticism be a Hall of Famer?
Yes.
So really what you are talking about is the same type of hypothetical as Kobe having huge hands, Shaq being able to hit free throws, Bird being able to dribble and dunk over people, Jordan having modern range...
All would be nice, but to hold their shortcomings against them as some barrier to being great is to miss the things that they do very well and results in an unfair criticism.
Not unfair because it is inaccurate, but unfair in the weight it is given as a limiting factor in their future ceiling.
Again, we can nit-pick every player who has ever lived, but it is a BS way to evaluate.
Which one do you think has a higher ceiling? Dlo with athleticism or DLo .
Hall of Fame isn't good enough for you?
If DLo will ever make the HOF as a Laker, then I am happy to be wrong. I would not bet on that though. Odd is slim to none.
Last edited by CRoost on Sun Apr 23, 2017 3:06 pm; edited 1 time in total
Joined: 02 May 2005 Posts: 90306 Location: Formerly Known As 24
Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 2:53 pm Post subject:
DancingBarry wrote:
CRoost wrote:
DancingBarry wrote:
Who has a higher ceiling DJ Mbenga with DLO's skills or DJ Mbenga?
I'll choose DJ Mbenga with Westbrook athleticism than DJ Mbenga with DLo skills. It will be like Gobert on steroids vs Jokic.
You would lose badly to the DJ Mbenga-DLO hybrid because MBenga already had superb athletism but little else to offer. After the humiliation, he would also eat all your
Ether _________________ “We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel
CP3, Nash and Curry are all quick. DLo does not have the foot speed but can match their skill set.
They appear quick because they utilize their skill set.
One thing I'd always do when coaching V-cuts, back cuts, and triple threat moves is have the most athletic kid come out onto the court to guard my little fat ass. And then I'd smoke them. With the moral of the story being "if I can do this while using these tools, imagine what you can do?"
Guys like CP3, Nash, & Curry appear quicker than they are because they use tools.
yes and no.
CP3, Nash, and Curry in their primes are quicker than most D-1 Top level college players. CP3 is surely more athletic than most guys that play basketball at his size.
Athleticism is quickness, speed, and jumping ability.
Just because you dont see CP3 using it a lot. dont think he isnt athletic. he is. people didnt use to think Farmar was athletic either. Little did they know he was winning dunk contests in high school.
Cp3, nash, curry are/were very skilled as well. They have GREAT footwork. Which will make you even quicker. But never be fooled to think they aren't VERY quick to begin with.
If you have ever watched nash train you could see the elite quickness. not speed, not hops. but quickness. It's a God given talent. If he was slow of foot. he could have all the skill in the world and would've never been able to make it in the nba.
there is a point where you have to have at least a certain baseline level of athletic ability to survive in the nba at certain positions/sizes.
the bigger/longer you are. the less athletic you have to be, especially at the big guy positions(PF, C).
I think Durant is close to an elite athlete when you factor in he is about 7 feet.
Size is not athleticism. Dlo has the standing reach of a small forward..
you're missing the point by saying size isnt athleticism.
Size + Athleticism means something.
So if i say shaq is athletic. does that mean he's as quick as a guard? NO. does that mean he can jump as high as a prime nate robinsin? NO.
It means for his position, for his height/weight. He can move well above normal for others at his height/weight, and position. Thats what it means to be "athletic for your size."
dont get caught in semantics. you know what it means when people say that.
our current center mosgov is athletic. not as much as he was pre injuries before he became a laker. but still more athletic than most 7 foot guys his size. he's quicker off the ground and can get up a bit higher than them. but if you ask the wrong person they will swear he isnt athletic because he isnt UBER athletic like Deandre Jordan. who isnt just athletic for his size. but just an UBER athlete regardless of size. similar to lebron. If lebron was 6'6 210. he would still run faster than most people and jump higher than most guys at that same size/weight/position. but the fact that he's 6'8 and the weight of a PF yet still moving like a guard is ridiculous.
DLO is athletic enough. but that knee issue is causing him issues in explosion(first step) and quickness off the ground. So that issue is draining the bit of athleticism he did have but only showed it on certain occasions. DLO is 6'5, with very long arms. this means if he gets a step on a small guy, odds are they are not going to bother his shot. the problem is. when he meets the Big man that slides over for the help. where a westbrook could jump up over the guy with quick hops. DLO can't do that. so he needs to utilize floaters and trickery(james harden).
Who has a higher ceiling DJ Mbenga with DLO's skills or DJ Mbenga?
I'll choose DJ Mbenga with Westbrook athleticism than DJ Mbenga with DLo skills. It will be like Gobert on steroids vs Jokic.
You would lose badly to the DJ Mbenga-DLO hybrid because MBenga already had superb athletism but little else to offer. After the humiliation, he would also eat all your
Mbenga love tacos He had those Slava looking midrange few times.
he would still be in the nba. if adam morrison just had kobe's mentality with adam morrison skills. he would still have been a legit nba player. he had enough scoring ability/size out of college to produce. not at a super high level but good enough to be a solid contributor. but like most guys the big lights and being too much in his own head + the injuries killed him.
he would still be in the nba. if adam morrison just had kobe's mentality with adam morrison skills. he would still have been a legit nba player. he had enough scoring ability/size out of college to produce. not at a super high level but good enough to be a solid contributor. but like most guys the big lights and being too much in his own head + the injuries killed him.
When he was setting picks for Shannon Brown, it was time to hang it up.
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144461 Location: The Gold Coast
Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 3:06 pm Post subject:
CRoost wrote:
DancingBarry wrote:
CRoost wrote:
DancingBarry wrote:
Who has a higher ceiling DJ Mbenga with DLO's skills or DJ Mbenga?
I'll choose DJ Mbenga with Westbrook athleticism than DJ Mbenga with DLo skills. It will be like Gobert on steroids vs Jokic.
You would lose badly to the DJ Mbenga-DLO hybrid because MBenga already had superb athletism but little else to offer. After the humiliation, he would also eat all your
Mbenga love tacos He had those Slava looking midrange few times.
Would you rather have Mbenga eating tacos or Bob Sacre eating a 5-pound burrito? _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023.
Who has a higher ceiling DJ Mbenga with DLO's skills or DJ Mbenga?
I'll choose DJ Mbenga with Westbrook athleticism than DJ Mbenga with DLo skills. It will be like Gobert on steroids vs Jokic.
You would lose badly to the DJ Mbenga-DLO hybrid because MBenga already had superb athletism but little else to offer. After the humiliation, he would also eat all your
Mbenga love tacos He had those Slava looking midrange few times.
Would you rather have Mbenga eating tacos or Bob Sacre eating a 5-pound burrito?
The "quick-footed" Nash breaking down Varajao on the dribble. This is all footwork and dribbling with little quickness.
It's easy to see Russell doing this in a few years.
That takes deft body control and insane smarts, and like you said footwork and technique. Sure, Dlo can do that in a few years, but it's going to take alot of work.
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He had those Slava looking midrange few times.
