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Aeneas Hunter
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Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 31763
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 Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 1:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Username wrote: | Maybe we have different definitions of what an "organizational failure" actually is.
I think everyone wishes it had worked out differently, but it didn't. So you move in, and what I see is that we brought in a 20 PPG center who hasn't hit 30 yet and is developing a lethal 3-point shot and a young player who appears to have unlimited offensive potential. We are a better team this season because of that trade and are better positioned financially for the future because of it.
That's a failure to you? |
At this point, I think you understand the response to what you're trying to say. We could go back and forth for another few pages with no actual exchange of new ideas. The answer to your question is "Hell, yes," and any front office executive worth a damn would tell you the same thing. I appreciate that you're trying to be a "glass is half full" guy, though. |
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KBH
Franchise Player
Joined: 13 Sep 2008
Posts: 12171
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| Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 1:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Username wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | Username wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | Username wrote: | | As to your last point, if he thrives in BKN he thrives in BKN. It would be disingenuous to take that as a slight to our organization. It's not as easy as 1 + 1 = 2. There's so many variables. Sometimes, guys just need a change of scenery. |
I agree in part and disagree in part. I agree that sometimes guys just need a change of scenery, and in fact a trade can shake up a player and force him to grow up or address whatever it was that was holding him back. It had to be humiliating to get sent to the Nets in a salary dump. If it lights a fire under Russell, and he goes on to have a great career, good for him.
But I disagree that it would not speak poorly of our organization. If it happens for Russell in Brooklyn, it means that we couldn't get through to him or that we couldn't put him a position to succeed. |
Not at all, it could mean exactly what you said in that very same post –– that he needed to be traded to light a fire under him. It's entirely possible that whatever he becomes with the Nets, would have never happened for him in Los Angeles. Maybe he needed that push, or wake-up call.
It's also entirely possible that Russell goes on to have a successful career and the Lakers go on to have success as a franchise, using the pieces acquired in the trade for Russell and that both sides are better off without each other. |
No, it means we invested a #2 pick on him and were unable to tap his potential. If he needed a trade to reach his potential, we failed. If we couldn't provide that push/wake-up call, we failed. |
You can certainly choose to look at it that way if you wish. So there's no personal accountability here? Whatever Russell does or does not do is entirely on the organization? |
Russell definitely has to take accountability, but there's accountability for the FO tasked with developing their own investments. It's like a parent saying "I feed you and clothe you. What else do you want from me?" when their kid is acting up and class and bringing home poor grades. Yes, the kid is ultimately responsible for his own actions, but there's more required of the parent than the basics of boarding. |
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Username
Star Player
Joined: 22 Apr 2004
Posts: 4718
Location: Out There
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| Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 1:10 pm Post subject: |
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| KBH wrote: | | Username wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | Username wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | Username wrote: | | As to your last point, if he thrives in BKN he thrives in BKN. It would be disingenuous to take that as a slight to our organization. It's not as easy as 1 + 1 = 2. There's so many variables. Sometimes, guys just need a change of scenery. |
I agree in part and disagree in part. I agree that sometimes guys just need a change of scenery, and in fact a trade can shake up a player and force him to grow up or address whatever it was that was holding him back. It had to be humiliating to get sent to the Nets in a salary dump. If it lights a fire under Russell, and he goes on to have a great career, good for him.
But I disagree that it would not speak poorly of our organization. If it happens for Russell in Brooklyn, it means that we couldn't get through to him or that we couldn't put him a position to succeed. |
Not at all, it could mean exactly what you said in that very same post –– that he needed to be traded to light a fire under him. It's entirely possible that whatever he becomes with the Nets, would have never happened for him in Los Angeles. Maybe he needed that push, or wake-up call.
It's also entirely possible that Russell goes on to have a successful career and the Lakers go on to have success as a franchise, using the pieces acquired in the trade for Russell and that both sides are better off without each other. |
No, it means we invested a #2 pick on him and were unable to tap his potential. If he needed a trade to reach his potential, we failed. If we couldn't provide that push/wake-up call, we failed. |
You can certainly choose to look at it that way if you wish. So there's no personal accountability here? Whatever Russell does or does not do is entirely on the organization? |
Russell definitely has to take accountability, but there's accountability for the FO tasked with developing their own investments. It's like a parent saying "I feed you and clothe you. What else do you want from me?" when their kid is acting up and class and bringing home poor grades. Yes, the kid is ultimately responsible for his own actions, but there's more required of the parent than the basics of boarding. |
Sure, but Russell wasn't this regime's investment. They don't really have any vested interest in him personally. They inherited him and have to figure out if he fits their vision, or if they can use him as a piece to create a path toward whatever their vision is. I think we saw what that decision was. |
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GoldenThroat
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Joined: 25 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 2:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Username wrote: | | Sure, but Russell wasn't this regime's investment. They don't really have any vested interest in him personally. They inherited him and have to figure out if he fits their vision, or if they can use him as a piece to create a path toward whatever their vision is. I think we saw what that decision was. |
We all know that this is their decision. We're talking about whether or not it was a good decision. They didn't make the investment in him but he was their asset nonetheless. We're discussing how they managed that. |
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justsomelakerfan
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Joined: 16 Jul 2016
Posts: 10939
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| Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 2:44 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | I don’t think we are a better team this season. And what will likely be our two best players are one and done. Not a lot of positive in that. |
I mean I know that Lopez is a one year rental but do you really think they'll trade Kyle Kuzma after only his first year?
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petergr
Star Player
Joined: 03 May 2012
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| Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 3:49 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you Mozgov for DLO  |
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OregonLakerGuy
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Joined: 23 Feb 2005
Posts: 13207
Location: Oregon
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| Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 4:51 pm Post subject: |
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| justsomelakerfan wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | I don’t think we are a better team this season. And what will likely be our two best players are one and done. Not a lot of positive in that. |
I mean I know that Lopez is a one year rental but do you really think they'll trade Kyle Kuzma after only his first year? |
KCP? |
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justsomelakerfan
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Joined: 16 Jul 2016
Posts: 10939
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| Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 5:39 pm Post subject: |
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| OregonLakerGuy wrote: | | justsomelakerfan wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | I don’t think we are a better team this season. And what will likely be our two best players are one and done. Not a lot of positive in that. |
I mean I know that Lopez is a one year rental but do you really think they'll trade Kyle Kuzma after only his first year? |
KCP? |
He is also on the Lakers
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Baron Von Humongous
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Joined: 02 Jul 2015
Posts: 32979
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| Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 6:29 pm Post subject: |
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| The Porzingis/DLo battle for the best player on the least worst team in NY will be epic. |
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OregonLakerGuy
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Joined: 23 Feb 2005
Posts: 13207
Location: Oregon
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| Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 7:22 pm Post subject: |
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| justsomelakerfan wrote: | | OregonLakerGuy wrote: | | justsomelakerfan wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | I don’t think we are a better team this season. And what will likely be our two best players are one and done. Not a lot of positive in that. |
I mean I know that Lopez is a one year rental but do you really think they'll trade Kyle Kuzma after only his first year? |
KCP? |
He is also on the Lakers |
For one year |
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nickuku
Star Player
Joined: 09 Jul 2010
Posts: 7844
Location: Orange County
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| Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 7:38 pm Post subject: |
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| How did people not see this coming? |
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justsomelakerfan
Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Jul 2016
Posts: 10939
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| Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 7:57 pm Post subject: |
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too many guys who do the same thing
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fiendishoc
Star Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 8488
Location: The (real) short corner
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| Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 7:59 pm Post subject: |
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| nickuku wrote: | | How did people not see this coming? |
You mean First Take and ESPN 710 are not reliable sources for basketball analysis??? |
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nickuku
Star Player
Joined: 09 Jul 2010
Posts: 7844
Location: Orange County
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| Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 8:02 pm Post subject: |
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| fiendishoc wrote: | | nickuku wrote: | | How did people not see this coming? |
You mean First Take and ESPN 710 are not reliable sources for basketball analysis??? |
I don't know I haven't watched or listen to that trash in years. |
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bonkers
Star Player
Joined: 25 Apr 2013
Posts: 6071
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| Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 8:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Lopez is going to end this game with 1 less rebound than D'angelo (2 to 3) yikes |
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justsomelakerfan
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bigkobe81
Starting Rotation
Joined: 05 Jul 2012
Posts: 163
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| Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 8:56 pm Post subject: |
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| we're getting lebron and paul george guys;) |
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giordan0
Star Player
Joined: 05 Jan 2016
Posts: 1017
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| Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 9:03 pm Post subject: |
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| justsomelakerfan wrote: | https://twitter.com/Mike_Schmitz/status/921218938637139970
*gets upset* |
F* tragic. |
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justsomelakerfan
Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Jul 2016
Posts: 10939
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| Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 9:14 pm Post subject: |
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| giordan0 wrote: | | justsomelakerfan wrote: | https://twitter.com/Mike_Schmitz/status/921218938637139970
*gets upset* |
F* tragic. |
word
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Austin Reaves
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tox
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Joined: 16 Nov 2015
Posts: 17876
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| Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 9:23 pm Post subject: |
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29.4 PER
8.8 BPM
0.22 WS/48
🐐
(  ) |
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LakerLogic
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Joined: 27 Mar 2005
Posts: 17886
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| Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 9:33 pm Post subject: |
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| I knew Magic was going to turn us into the Knicks. |
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nickuku
Star Player
Joined: 09 Jul 2010
Posts: 7844
Location: Orange County
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| Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 9:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Remember how bad trading Pau looked for Memphis? At least they got (bleep) Marc for it. That trade without the knowledge that Marc was going to be a star makes this one looks like CACA. |
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tnell
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| Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 9:51 pm Post subject: |
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| "Tragic" lol. |
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bonkers
Star Player
Joined: 25 Apr 2013
Posts: 6071
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| Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 10:31 pm Post subject: |
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| The narrative sure is different though. Webber was praising everything Lonzo did, but DLO was consistently criticized by Reggie and co. on the broadcasts |
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jonnybravo
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Joined: 21 Sep 2007
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| Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 11:55 pm Post subject: |
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| bonkers wrote: | | The narrative sure is different though. Webber was praising everything Lonzo did, but DLO was consistently criticized by Reggie and co. on the broadcasts |
Showtime Cartel's tentacles run deep.
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