Im probably the happiest person in the world right now that he and Randle are lakers.
Heh. I will join.
1. We drafted my favorite player from college this year in Russell.
2. We got the guy I was hoping would make it to us in the draft last year in Randle.
3. Then we drafted Clarkson, who on draft day was the only other guy I was interested in seeing where he went since I'm a Mizzou grad. Suprised at how far he fell. Smiling when I found out it turned out to be us that got him.
4. Then for fun, we also got his partner, Jabari in the draft...
Pretty happy and I hope it all pans out, but we'll see. Was really hoping we could trade our two picks to move up for Justin Anderson on draft day, but I see what the Lakers are after with their two selections and you can't force a trade on anyone.
Can't wait to see them grow and hopefully hit their potential. Probably going to have to wade through a lot of over reacting negative garbage on the site with their growing pains, but looking forward to their development.
[taggart from Blazing Saddles Voice]
Would it cheer you up if I was to shoot one of those negative nancies?
so what is it? a SG or a true PG? lol _________________ "Now, if life is coffee, then the jobs, money & position in society are the cups. They are just tools to hold & contain life, but the quality of life doesn't change. Sometimes, by concentrating only on the cup, we fail to enjoy the coffee in it."
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 4:45 pm Post subject:
Odd as it is, I still think Russell is more comfortable as a playmaking SG. Little regard to setting up the offense, only regard to set up the score. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
Odd as it is, I still think Russell is more comfortable as a playmaking SG. Little regard to setting up the offense, only regard to set up the score.
this I agree with a lot. _________________ "Now, if life is coffee, then the jobs, money & position in society are the cups. They are just tools to hold & contain life, but the quality of life doesn't change. Sometimes, by concentrating only on the cup, we fail to enjoy the coffee in it."
Joined: 02 May 2005 Posts: 90306 Location: Formerly Known As 24
Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 5:34 pm Post subject:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
Odd as it is, I still think Russell is more comfortable as a playmaking SG. Little regard to setting up the offense, only regard to set up the score.
This is what I've been saying too.
I think he is good at both, and it largely depends upon scheme. If you are going to go with a high proportion of pick and roll as the initiating set, he' becomes much more comfortable at 1.
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 6:10 pm Post subject:
24 wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
Odd as it is, I still think Russell is more comfortable as a playmaking SG. Little regard to setting up the offense, only regard to set up the score.
This is what I've been saying too.
I think he is good at both, and it largely depends upon scheme. If you are going to go with a high proportion of pick and roll as the initiating set, he' becomes much more comfortable at 1.
If it's a matter of comfort, it's definitely Russell at 2. Last year he had the benefit of an extended shot clock. The team could actually run through multiple options within their set.
This time around, it's really 1,2,3 combinations and something has to go up. The team looked far more fluid with Clarkson as the ball-handling PG during the last game at Vegas, and Russell shook out the "facilitating" mentality and was far more aggressive getting his shots up.
You almost want Russell to carry on a similar "attack" mentality like Clarkson as a PG, even if it's early in the shot clock. As long as it's a high percentage shot, who cares? _________________ Resident Car Nut.
Joined: 02 May 2005 Posts: 90306 Location: Formerly Known As 24
Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 6:28 pm Post subject:
Mike@LG wrote:
24 wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
Odd as it is, I still think Russell is more comfortable as a playmaking SG. Little regard to setting up the offense, only regard to set up the score.
This is what I've been saying too.
I think he is good at both, and it largely depends upon scheme. If you are going to go with a high proportion of pick and roll as the initiating set, he' becomes much more comfortable at 1.
If it's a matter of comfort, it's definitely Russell at 2. Last year he had the benefit of an extended shot clock. The team could actually run through multiple options within their set.
This time around, it's really 1,2,3 combinations and something has to go up. The team looked far more fluid with Clarkson as the ball-handling PG during the last game at Vegas, and Russell shook out the "facilitating" mentality and was far more aggressive getting his shots up.
You almost want Russell to carry on a similar "attack" mentality like Clarkson as a PG, even if it's early in the shot clock. As long as it's a high percentage shot, who cares?
One of the reasons I like the spurs motion weak set is that it allows a guy like russell to bring the ball up quickly, benefitting from his vision and passing in early offense, with the first half court action being to dump the ball to an attacker like Clarkson or kobe and then running off a screen to the weak side. The flow allows the attacker to just go, in which case russell becomes a spot up shooter, or rotate the ball through a big up top (which allows Randle a shot at attacking ), before giving the ball back to russell to initiate a pick and roll.
Joined: 23 Jun 2005 Posts: 8488 Location: The (real) short corner
Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 7:19 pm Post subject:
24 wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
24 wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
Odd as it is, I still think Russell is more comfortable as a playmaking SG. Little regard to setting up the offense, only regard to set up the score.
This is what I've been saying too.
I think he is good at both, and it largely depends upon scheme. If you are going to go with a high proportion of pick and roll as the initiating set, he' becomes much more comfortable at 1.
If it's a matter of comfort, it's definitely Russell at 2. Last year he had the benefit of an extended shot clock. The team could actually run through multiple options within their set.
This time around, it's really 1,2,3 combinations and something has to go up. The team looked far more fluid with Clarkson as the ball-handling PG during the last game at Vegas, and Russell shook out the "facilitating" mentality and was far more aggressive getting his shots up.
You almost want Russell to carry on a similar "attack" mentality like Clarkson as a PG, even if it's early in the shot clock. As long as it's a high percentage shot, who cares?
One of the reasons I like the spurs motion weak set is that it allows a guy like russell to bring the ball up quickly, benefitting from his vision and passing in early offense, with the first half court action being to dump the ball to an attacker like Clarkson or kobe and then running off a screen to the weak side. The flow allows the attacker to just go, in which case russell becomes a spot up shooter, or rotate the ball through a big up top (which allows Randle a shot at attacking ), before giving the ball back to russell to initiate a pick and roll.
I agree, but the Lakers seem to be running it without looking at any of the options, which is concerning. It then becomes just a down screen for a wing shooter.
As for the Russell / Clarkson debate, I think Russell is better running the screen roll against a set defense, but whoever gets out there quickly with the ball should initiate the action. You inbound or outlet to whoever's available, and then push for best use of the clock.
Russell is the PG/floor general. It's just not going to show until he learns the offense. His game is cerebral so it's not going to show in a summer league setting. Once he learns the offense and NBA defenses people will start to understand why Byron Scott is calling him a PG.
In college the kid had the defense on a string and it was beautiful to watch.
it really doesn't matter if he's listed as a PG or a SG like he was at Ohio State. the fact remains that he's the PG maybe not in his physical position but he will have all the responsibilities of a pg.
He and clarkson actually compliment each other perfectly.
Russel can still run the offense even if he doesn't have the ball in his hands lol go watch some Ohio state tape. He's calling plays and directing the offense from the SG position. That's not a playmaker, that's a floor general lol
IMO it doesn't really matter what position of the floor someone plays, what matters is that players game and mentality.
Russell has a PG's mentality. He Is trying to out think the defense and get easy baskets. It doesn't matter if he scores it or team mate does.
Clarkson has a scorers mentality and he's looking to score the basketball when he gets it. Passing is just his fall back option. That's perfectly fine because he's really good at it. Together they will be unstoppable!
seriously, does anyone know if i can get a russell jersey anywhere??!?!?!? i will be in LA this wkend. looking to purchase a jersey or tshirt or anything that is available _________________ Billions Billions Billions
Joined: 13 Apr 2001 Posts: 11882 Location: Looking outta the window, watching the asphalt grow ...
Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 8:09 pm Post subject:
fiendishoc wrote:
I agree, but the Lakers seem to be running it without looking at any of the options, which is concerning. It then becomes just a down screen for a wing shooter.
This was a major frustration of mine during the SPL. Lots of movement with seemingly little to no purpose, let alone results. If the offense is going to evolve that slowly, best to let them get out and run or jump into early offense but with Russell admitting that Madsen was calling plays every time down, I just shudder to think what the game plan was later after showing early aimless play outside of pick and roll and iso's. _________________ We back.
Im probably the happiest person in the world right now that he and Randle are lakers.
Heh. I will join.
1. We drafted my favorite player from college this year in Russell.
2. We got the guy I was hoping would make it to us in the draft last year in Randle.
3. Then we drafted Clarkson, who on draft day was the only other guy I was interested in seeing where he went since I'm a Mizzou grad. Suprised at how far he fell. Smiling when I found out it turned out to be us that got him.
4. Then for fun, we also got his partner, Jabari in the draft...
Pretty happy and I hope it all pans out, but we'll see. Was really hoping we could trade our two picks to move up for Justin Anderson on draft day, but I see what the Lakers are after with their two selections and you can't force a trade on anyone.
Can't wait to see them grow and hopefully hit their potential. Probably going to have to wade through a lot of over reacting negative garbage on the site with their growing pains, but looking forward to their development.
[taggart from Blazing Saddles Voice]
Would it cheer you up if I was to shoot one of those negative nancies?
[/taggart voice]
You did today and we are very cheered up!!
I wanted Justin Anderson too but I've watched every video that YouTube has on nance and I think he may end up the better player. Super athletic and a very good defender.
This team has given us something to be excited about for a very long time 😁
Now we just need someone to post a workout video or something to keep us entertained until the season.
Im probably the happiest person in the world right now that he and Randle are lakers.
Heh. I will join.
1. We drafted my favorite player from college this year in Russell.
2. We got the guy I was hoping would make it to us in the draft last year in Randle.
3. Then we drafted Clarkson, who on draft day was the only other guy I was interested in seeing where he went since I'm a Mizzou grad. Suprised at how far he fell. Smiling when I found out it turned out to be us that got him.
4. Then for fun, we also got his partner, Jabari in the draft...
Pretty happy and I hope it all pans out, but we'll see. Was really hoping we could trade our two picks to move up for Justin Anderson on draft day, but I see what the Lakers are after with their two selections and you can't force a trade on anyone.
Can't wait to see them grow and hopefully hit their potential. Probably going to have to wade through a lot of over reacting negative garbage on the site with their growing pains, but looking forward to their development.
[taggart from Blazing Saddles Voice]
Would it cheer you up if I was to shoot one of those negative nancies?
[/taggart voice]
You did today and we are very cheered up!!
It went something like:
24: Put the gun DOWN!
2.0: .....
24: Don't do IT! I SAID PUT THE GUN DOWN!
2.0: (raises gun to head)
24: (BLAM! BLAM! BLAM! BLAM! KABLAM!)
DB: NOOOOOOOOO!
Very entertaining stuff. _________________ “God knew they couldn’t be on this Earth without each other. He had to bring them home to have them together.” – Vanessa Bryant
Clarkson is more of a threat to defenses coming off of P&R because of his explosivesness, speed, and ability to finish at the rim. He's also a good passer and automatic from midrange. Russell likes to go at his pace which works as well. Both will have opportunities to bring the ball up and run the offense. That's the great thing about those two, both are interchangeable.
I liked the DLO in the final SPL game. He's damn near unguardable off screens as he can pass, shoot, and will improve his drive/floater game. When he has the ball, I think it's easier for defenses to key in on him. I think over time, he can improve but for next season, I don't think it's optimal to have him handling the ball the majority of the time.
I think Clarkson right now is more experienced handling the main ballhandling duties as DLO learns the position. I'm intrigued by having all of our perimeter players capable of initiating/running an offense (Kobe, DLO, Clarkson, even Lou). _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals
Joined: 13 Apr 2001 Posts: 11882 Location: Looking outta the window, watching the asphalt grow ...
Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2015 6:33 am Post subject:
yinoma2001 wrote:
I think over time, he can improve but for next season, I don't think it's optimal to have him handling the ball the majority of the time.
I think Clarkson right now is more experienced handling the main ballhandling duties as DLO learns the position. I'm intrigued by having all of our perimeter players capable of initiating/running an offense (Kobe, DLO, Clarkson, even Lou).
I agree. It appears that's the coaching staff's thinking too. That's one thing that was evident during SPL. Russell, Clarkson and Randle all took turns. Throw in Kobe and Lou and the weight of primary ball handling will not be shouldered by the prize rookie. I think he's going to be brought along slowly and his best shot early will be to be able to play off ball. Which, I think he can while his learning curve is beginning. He will, of course, get opportunities to create off-the-dribble but it just won't be an exclusive affair, which he's equipped to handle and may be a good path for hom early.
Of course so much depends on how all these pieces mesh together in the "system". And that's all of our biggest worry and concern because offense is kind of a big issue to begin with. _________________ We back.
Joined: 23 Jun 2005 Posts: 8488 Location: The (real) short corner
Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2015 7:29 am Post subject:
yinoma2001 wrote:
I liked the DLO in the final SPL game. He's damn near unguardable off screens as he can pass, shoot, and will improve his drive/floater game. When he has the ball, I think it's easier for defenses to key in on him. I think over time, he can improve but for next season, I don't think it's optimal to have him handling the ball the majority of the time.
I think Clarkson right now is more experienced handling the main ballhandling duties as DLO learns the position. I'm intrigued by having all of our perimeter players capable of initiating/running an offense (Kobe, DLO, Clarkson, even Lou).
I think it's more that at this stage of his career, he's more spacing dependent than Clarkson. If you watch his full summer league highlights, you see that most of his scores are as the primary ball handler either in semi-transition (drag screens) or high PnRs early in the clock. Rarely did you see him get much off the ball, probably because a lot of the Lakers sets kill the spacing without creating much of an advantage on the catch, and he doesn't do as well in traffic (the only one I remember is with Upshaw catching his defender hard on a screen).
Now, Clarkson does get the ball out of the backcourt with a little more urgency, which is good- but with this offense, I don't think we want Russell wasting too much time running in circles off the ball, unless it's in simple floppy type sets.
I liked the DLO in the final SPL game. He's damn near unguardable off screens as he can pass, shoot, and will improve his drive/floater game. When he has the ball, I think it's easier for defenses to key in on him. I think over time, he can improve but for next season, I don't think it's optimal to have him handling the ball the majority of the time.
I think Clarkson right now is more experienced handling the main ballhandling duties as DLO learns the position. I'm intrigued by having all of our perimeter players capable of initiating/running an offense (Kobe, DLO, Clarkson, even Lou).
I see why you feel this way, but I think that you're overlooking his decision-making in the PnR, and the importance of that. He's better at making PnR reads than Clarkson is, and creating an open shot for the team. We ran much more PnR with him in the last two games of SL. In the game against Dallas, they were blitzing or icing the PnR, and he was getting the ball to Randle in the middle of the court to wreck shop in what's essentially a 4-on-3 situation. In the Utah game, they were feathering the PnR (big stays back) and he led the team in shot attempts, because he was the open guy.
I don't think it's gonna be an either/or thing, in terms of who handles the ball. Both have their advantages. Clarkson's gonna break his guy down and compromise the defense off of the dribble more than Russell will, but Russel will be able to do it with his decision-making, which will only get better as he gets more minutes. This will probably be the first time he steps onto the court and isn't the savviest guy out there. But he will be soon.
Joined: 02 May 2005 Posts: 90306 Location: Formerly Known As 24
Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2015 8:24 am Post subject:
GoldenThroat wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
I liked the DLO in the final SPL game. He's damn near unguardable off screens as he can pass, shoot, and will improve his drive/floater game. When he has the ball, I think it's easier for defenses to key in on him. I think over time, he can improve but for next season, I don't think it's optimal to have him handling the ball the majority of the time.
I think Clarkson right now is more experienced handling the main ballhandling duties as DLO learns the position. I'm intrigued by having all of our perimeter players capable of initiating/running an offense (Kobe, DLO, Clarkson, even Lou).
I see why you feel this way, but I think that you're overlooking his decision-making in the PnR, and the importance of that. He's better at making PnR reads than Clarkson is, and creating an open shot for the team. We ran much more PnR with him in the last two games of SL. In the game against Dallas, they were blitzing or icing the PnR, and he was getting the ball to Randle in the middle of the court to wreck shop in what's essentially a 4-on-3 situation. In the Utah game, they were feathering the PnR (big stays back) and he led the team in shot attempts, because he was the open guy.
I don't think it's gonna be an either/or thing, in terms of who handles the ball. Both have their advantages. Clarkson's gonna break his guy down and compromise the defense off of the dribble more than Russell will, but Russel will be able to do it with his decision-making, which will only get better as he gets more minutes. This will probably be the first time he steps onto the court and isn't the savviest guy out there. But he will be soon.
Yup. His greatest gift (and it is one of the rarest in basketball) is that he naturally sees the game and processes it faster than pretty much anyone else. Magic and bird stuff.
One of my favorite plays of his from SL was the play at 2:08 in this video. Saw this the whole way, utilized a ball fake to get the defender on his heels and create a passing lane (somewhere Bobby Knight is smiling), and the pass was gone before the defender could recover. He saw this a good 1.5 seconds ahead of time, and that ball fake is lightning quick. Love stuff like this, and I think Kobe will too. Kobe has an excellent feel for cutting, he's just usually had the ball in his hands and injuries prevented this sort of thing from happening with Nash.
It's good to have 3 guards who are capable to set up offense in Kobe, Clarkson and Russell and have 4 guards can score in Kobe, Clarkson, Russell and Lo. Moreover, we've a 7'2" center in Hibbert and explosive PF in Radnle. I expect this year's offense is much better and more smooth than last year. It doesn't matter who play PG and who play SG because modern basketball need players to play multiple positions and always change their role in response to the defense and own needs
One of my favorite plays of his from SL was the play at 2:08 in this video. Saw this the whole way, utilized a ball fake to get the defender on his heels and create a passing lane (somewhere Bobby Knight is smiling), and the pass was gone before the defender could recover. He saw this a good 1.5 seconds ahead of time, and that ball fake is lightning quick. Love stuff like this, and I think Kobe will too. Kobe has an excellent feel for cutting, he's just usually had the ball in his hands and injuries prevented this sort of thing from happening with Nash.
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