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BIKinstonFan
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 Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 2:18 pm Post subject: |
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| 2019 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | To be clear, as a DLO supporter:
1. I agree his effort has been trash recently and his energy has been really low too.
2. He's not a superstar now, nor is he even a top 15 PG. But he's still a young padawan and PGs take a while.
3. his defense is also tied a lot to #1, b/c when he's engaged, he's been disruptive in passing lanes, etc.
So we're not even debating these things right now. Having seen 1.5 years of DLO now:
1. he needs more help handling the ball and having guys who can create with him. Deng/Moz/Young are so dependent on getting passes to score that we are predictable and I feel it's easy to attack DLO defensively (while the 2nd unit is more free flowing and has multiple ball handlers).
2. I'm not so married to the concept that he has to handle the ball ala CP3 and dominate the ballhandling. I do agree he can be devastating off ball too, but it's more about the right allocation of both rather than saying he's one or the other.
3. he absolutely needs to show more effort and fight. That is the most disappointing thing as a DLO supporter. If your shot isn't on, help in other ways.
All that being said, I'm still a believer. |
That to me is the biggest thing plaguing DLO right now. His mindset is to organize others and start the offense. While he''s damn good at it, it's not his style of play. I think the heave against the Nets was the perfect example of that. His first instinct was to run the play that was called then panicked and chucked a bad shot. Mentality: "follow the plan" which I think comes from his love, respect, and trust in Luke. Which silver lining was a good thing.
Mitch has alluded to it a couples (scorer vs play maker) and Luke acutally went so far as to say we're asking him to play a style that is not best suited for him (forgot which post game it was-- maybe the Nets). That's pretty big that both the GM and coach are expressing the same questions of highest and best use. I think we're starting to see that he should be unleashed as starting star and the #1 scorer.
Watching his OSU tape, it seems like everything he did came off his scoring/star mentality. It opened up lanes for others, allowed him to make those dazzling passes, and play an incredibly well rounded attack. It was a joy to watch and very similar to how he looked this summer.
Instead, he's trying to be the organizer for Mozzy (fumbles a lot), Deng (horrible season), Young (streaky) and Randle (no threat to shoot). Defenders are never leaving him for doubles unless one of those guys is having a monster game. Once he spends the first half trying to orchestrate, he struggles to get his scoring going.
I'd love to see Luke use him how MDA is using Harden and did with Lin and Nash. I'm not the best x's and o's guy and those guys have better guys around them but I see no reason why DLO shouldn't be the feature within the starting 5.
He's got a lot to work on-- speed, strength, angles, etc but I definitely don't think he's being used the best way he can. This summer, whether it's a PG like Jrue or a ball handling wing like Hayward, we need to add someone who can help him play off ball but also be able to let him attack as the primary. Or one of the top 3 guys in Ball, Fultz, DSJR, or JJ.. For now I think Ingram and Clarkson in the starting 5 would do wonders.
Mozzy/Zu/Black
Randle/Nance/T Rob
Ingram/Deng
Clarkson/Young
Russell/Lou/Calderon
I'd like to see those rotations to close the year with a lot of Nance and Zu playing with the starters. |
Good post |
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Kirby Brian
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Joined: 31 May 2005
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| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 2:24 pm Post subject: |
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| DangeRuss wrote: | | People are saying dlo is best suited as a playmaking 2 guard because his similarities to harden, but harden is currently having by far his best year statistically and impact wise playing PG. |
Ship his @ss out to Houston then? |
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justsomelakerfan
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Joined: 16 Jul 2016
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| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 2:28 pm Post subject: |
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Great insight on this page. Question: if Russell had been hitting his shots the past couple games, would we still think he needs to be used differently, or would we be raving about how his game is coming together in terms of how he's balancing scoring and playmaking?
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 2:29 pm Post subject: |
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| justsomelakerfan wrote: | | Great insight on this page. Question: if Russell had been hitting his shots the past couple games, would we still think he needs to be used differently, or would we be raving about how his game is coming together in terms of how he's balancing scoring and playmaking? |
As one of the more vocal DLO supporters here, balance is still needed now and in the long term.
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justsomelakerfan
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| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 2:32 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | justsomelakerfan wrote: | | Great insight on this page. Question: if Russell had been hitting his shots the past couple games, would we still think he needs to be used differently, or would we be raving about how his game is coming together in terms of how he's balancing scoring and playmaking? |
As one of the more vocal DLO supporters here, balance is still needed now and in the long term. |
But that's my point. I think he's been a fine playmaker as a "pass first PG," he just hasn't been hitting his shots. I don't see the difference between starting JC or Nick when they basically do the same thing. I think he could use Ingram's ability to make plays on the starting lineup to get him going in more off-ball opportunities... But I have really enjoyed his development as a point guard this month. He's just not hitting his shots, at least that's how I see it.
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justsomelakerfan
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| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 2:34 pm Post subject: |
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When Russell isn't hitting his shots, he becomes timid offensively and loses composure. I think it could be this simple.
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venturalakersfan
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Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 2:34 pm Post subject: |
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| LakersPimp wrote: |
Ok...these numbers are so high...but we are losing games. And our bench is outscoring the oppositions bench....so by that logic/numbers...why aren't we winning more games? That 10-10 stretch really hyped up those numbers. For every game Dlo has...like the first 3 quarters in Detroit...he has 4-5 games where he scores in bunches, but has minimal impact on the outcome of the game. Numbers are great...but the one i'm looking at the most is 15-31. |
Not so much lately, our starters are getting leads and the bench has been letting them slip away.
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levon
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| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 2:43 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | GRE4T ONE wrote: | | george hill with dlo will compliment each other really well. |
In theory yes, but a bit too old, and recently a bit too injury prone. |
that didn't deter us last summer |
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levon
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Joined: 11 Oct 2016
Posts: 10654
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| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 2:47 pm Post subject: |
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| justsomelakerfan wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | justsomelakerfan wrote: | | Great insight on this page. Question: if Russell had been hitting his shots the past couple games, would we still think he needs to be used differently, or would we be raving about how his game is coming together in terms of how he's balancing scoring and playmaking? |
As one of the more vocal DLO supporters here, balance is still needed now and in the long term. |
But that's my point. I think he's been a fine playmaker as a "pass first PG," he just hasn't been hitting his shots. I don't see the difference between starting JC or Nick when they basically do the same thing. I think he could use Ingram's ability to make plays on the starting lineup to get him going in more off-ball opportunities... But I have really enjoyed his development as a point guard this month. He's just not hitting his shots, at least that's how I see it. |
JC needs the ball a lot more. He's been making better reads as of late, but I don't know if there are enough opportunities to go around. While Young isn't a playmaker, he certainly puts up a shot as quickly as possible. The ball tends to stick less with him imo
| justsomelakerfan wrote: | | When Russell isn't hitting his shots, he becomes timid offensively and loses composure. I think it could be this simple. |
This can be said for multiple guys on the team. |
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Yong
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Joined: 08 Oct 2009
Posts: 9024
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| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 2:49 pm Post subject: |
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| BIKinstonFan wrote: | | 2019 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | To be clear, as a DLO supporter:
1. I agree his effort has been trash recently and his energy has been really low too.
2. He's not a superstar now, nor is he even a top 15 PG. But he's still a young padawan and PGs take a while.
3. his defense is also tied a lot to #1, b/c when he's engaged, he's been disruptive in passing lanes, etc.
So we're not even debating these things right now. Having seen 1.5 years of DLO now:
1. he needs more help handling the ball and having guys who can create with him. Deng/Moz/Young are so dependent on getting passes to score that we are predictable and I feel it's easy to attack DLO defensively (while the 2nd unit is more free flowing and has multiple ball handlers).
2. I'm not so married to the concept that he has to handle the ball ala CP3 and dominate the ballhandling. I do agree he can be devastating off ball too, but it's more about the right allocation of both rather than saying he's one or the other.
3. he absolutely needs to show more effort and fight. That is the most disappointing thing as a DLO supporter. If your shot isn't on, help in other ways.
All that being said, I'm still a believer. |
That to me is the biggest thing plaguing DLO right now. His mindset is to organize others and start the offense. While he''s damn good at it, it's not his style of play. I think the heave against the Nets was the perfect example of that. His first instinct was to run the play that was called then panicked and chucked a bad shot. Mentality: "follow the plan" which I think comes from his love, respect, and trust in Luke. Which silver lining was a good thing.
Mitch has alluded to it a couples (scorer vs play maker) and Luke acutally went so far as to say we're asking him to play a style that is not best suited for him (forgot which post game it was-- maybe the Nets). That's pretty big that both the GM and coach are expressing the same questions of highest and best use. I think we're starting to see that he should be unleashed as starting star and the #1 scorer.
Watching his OSU tape, it seems like everything he did came off his scoring/star mentality. It opened up lanes for others, allowed him to make those dazzling passes, and play an incredibly well rounded attack. It was a joy to watch and very similar to how he looked this summer.
Instead, he's trying to be the organizer for Mozzy (fumbles a lot), Deng (horrible season), Young (streaky) and Randle (no threat to shoot). Defenders are never leaving him for doubles unless one of those guys is having a monster game. Once he spends the first half trying to orchestrate, he struggles to get his scoring going.
I'd love to see Luke use him how MDA is using Harden and did with Lin and Nash. I'm not the best x's and o's guy and those guys have better guys around them but I see no reason why DLO shouldn't be the feature within the starting 5.
He's got a lot to work on-- speed, strength, angles, etc but I definitely don't think he's being used the best way he can. This summer, whether it's a PG like Jrue or a ball handling wing like Hayward, we need to add someone who can help him play off ball but also be able to let him attack as the primary. Or one of the top 3 guys in Ball, Fultz, DSJR, or JJ.. For now I think Ingram and Clarkson in the starting 5 would do wonders.
Mozzy/Zu/Black
Randle/Nance/T Rob
Ingram/Deng
Clarkson/Young
Russell/Lou/Calderon
I'd like to see those rotations to close the year with a lot of Nance and Zu playing with the starters. |
Good post |
Actually agree. We should either insert Clarkson or Ingram. |
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BIKinstonFan
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| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 3:02 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | justsomelakerfan wrote: | | Great insight on this page. Question: if Russell had been hitting his shots the past couple games, would we still think he needs to be used differently, or would we be raving about how his game is coming together in terms of how he's balancing scoring and playmaking? |
As one of the more vocal DLO supporters here, balance is still needed now and in the long term. |
Serious question: As a known DLo supporter, do you know what's stopping DLo to bring hunger/effort entire game? Is he injured or something else |
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Vottomatic
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| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 3:07 pm Post subject: |
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| I still think D'Lo is going to be a good player, just not a superstar! We're holding him to a high standard and that's a little unfair to him! He lacks nba athleticism but he makes it up with his shooting if it's falling, and because of that I think he's better suited as a SG and not a PG |
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Fastbreak32
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Joined: 11 Oct 2011
Posts: 4746
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| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 3:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Vottomatic wrote: | | I still think D'Lo is going to be a good player, just not a superstar! We're holding him to a high standard and that's a little unfair to him! He lacks nba athleticism but he makes it up with his shooting if it's falling, and because of that I think he's better suited as a SG and not a PG |
I don't see how you draw the conclusion he's a SG based on your premise.
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LeBron, AD, & _________. Stay tuned.
"...there was a time when the Israelites were wandering in the desert and all of a sudden, bread came down from heaven,” Pelinka said. “That’s kind of what today feels like for us to have KCP join.” |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 3:18 pm Post subject: |
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| I've mentioned before that Luke put DLO on a unit where no other guy is a real credible creator in the half court, and that puts a lot of pressure on him both to create for others because they need it, and for himself because defenses know he's the guy. |
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Stumpy25
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Joined: 27 Oct 2016
Posts: 1314
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| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 3:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Vottomatic wrote: | | I still think D'Lo is going to be a good player, just not a superstar! We're holding him to a high standard and that's a little unfair to him! He lacks nba athleticism but he makes it up with his shooting if it's falling, and because of that I think he's better suited as a SG and not a PG |
I agree with your post and although it's a bit of a taboo to speak against DLO in this forum you speak the truth. Unfortunately the NBA is a PG driven league so if you can get a top point guard through either trade (DLO included) or free agency you do it. |
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greenfrog
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| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 3:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Omar Little wrote: | | I've mentioned before that Luke put DLO on a unit where no other guy is a real credible creator in the half court, and that puts a lot of pressure on him both to create for others because they need it, and for himself because defenses know he's the guy. |
Ingram doesn't count as a creator? |
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levon
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| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 3:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Stumpy25 wrote: | | Vottomatic wrote: | | I still think D'Lo is going to be a good player, just not a superstar! We're holding him to a high standard and that's a little unfair to him! He lacks nba athleticism but he makes it up with his shooting if it's falling, and because of that I think he's better suited as a SG and not a PG |
I agree with your post and although it's a bit of a taboo to speak against DLO in this forum you speak the truth. Unfortunately the NBA is a PG driven league so if you can get a top point guard through either trade (DLO included) or free agency you do it. |
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Nnamdi21
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| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 3:23 pm Post subject: |
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| why not move Lou (preferably) or clarkson to the starting lineup to help dlo? Who care's what they do for the bench. We arent winning games. |
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nash
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Joined: 23 Oct 2001
Posts: 8194
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| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 3:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Omar Little wrote: | | I've mentioned before that Luke put DLO on a unit where no other guy is a real credible creator in the half court, and that puts a lot of pressure on him both to create for others because they need it, and for himself because defenses know he's the guy. |
Most teams don't have it that is why the PG position have such a great importance. If you are going to be a PG in this league you should be able to work under pressure. |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 3:28 pm Post subject: |
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| levon wrote: | | Stumpy25 wrote: | | Vottomatic wrote: | | I still think D'Lo is going to be a good player, just not a superstar! We're holding him to a high standard and that's a little unfair to him! He lacks nba athleticism but he makes it up with his shooting if it's falling, and because of that I think he's better suited as a SG and not a PG |
I agree with your post and although it's a bit of a taboo to speak against DLO in this forum you speak the truth. Unfortunately the NBA is a PG driven league so if you can get a top point guard through either trade (DLO included) or free agency you do it. |
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This is like when racists say the world is too PC... |
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greenfrog
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| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 3:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Nnamdi21 wrote: | | why not move Lou (preferably) or clarkson to the starting lineup to help dlo? Who care's what they do for the bench. We arent winning games. |
Uh, Luke tried that. |
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Fastbreak32
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Joined: 11 Oct 2011
Posts: 4746
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| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 4:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Stumpy25 wrote: | | Vottomatic wrote: | | I still think D'Lo is going to be a good player, just not a superstar! We're holding him to a high standard and that's a little unfair to him! He lacks nba athleticism but he makes it up with his shooting if it's falling, and because of that I think he's better suited as a SG and not a PG |
I agree with your post and although it's a bit of a taboo to speak against DLO in this forum you speak the truth. Unfortunately the NBA is a PG driven league so if you can get a top point guard through either trade (DLO included) or free agency you do it. |
I see a lot of opinion/conjecture, which is fine.
Sure, you always get the best talent if you can. I don't think you'll find that much opposition in that regard.
_________________
LeBron, AD, & _________. Stay tuned.
"...there was a time when the Israelites were wandering in the desert and all of a sudden, bread came down from heaven,” Pelinka said. “That’s kind of what today feels like for us to have KCP join.” |
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BigGameHames
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| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 4:36 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | LakersPimp wrote: |
Ok...these numbers are so high...but we are losing games. And our bench is outscoring the oppositions bench....so by that logic/numbers...why aren't we winning more games? That 10-10 stretch really hyped up those numbers. For every game Dlo has...like the first 3 quarters in Detroit...he has 4-5 games where he scores in bunches, but has minimal impact on the outcome of the game. Numbers are great...but the one i'm looking at the most is 15-31. |
Not so much lately, our starters are getting leads and the bench has been letting them slip away. |
No to mention the team is much better when DLO plays. To say he has minimal effect on the game even when playing well can be proven wrong by simply looking at the teams record with and without him. The team is competitive when he plays well and is terrible when he does it. Nobody has a bigger effect on how the team plays, for better or worse. |
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jonnybravo
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| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 4:44 pm Post subject: |
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| greenfrog wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | | I've mentioned before that Luke put DLO on a unit where no other guy is a real credible creator in the half court, and that puts a lot of pressure on him both to create for others because they need it, and for himself because defenses know he's the guy. |
Ingram doesn't count as a creator? |
He hasn't been consistent creating. Ingram is definitely turning the corner though which is fantastic to see.
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Drifts
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| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 4:45 pm Post subject: |
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it's hard enough competing in the NBA when you are slow and not the quickest guy on the court, and your shot is just off target... but you are shooting yourself on the foot by playing uninspired, unmotivated, heartless basketball.
Russell needs to compete all the time. you can only shake your head when he fouled Mudiay, after hearing the whistle he stopped playing, turned around to complain, Mudiay proceeded to make the uncontested bank shot, turning the play to a 3pt play.
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