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1hu2ren3dui4
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 Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 4:47 pm Post subject: |
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Not really sure smooth sailing all the way to the all star game was a realistic outcome. Kids need to have some structure and value system.
I like the fact that luke is harping on lack of effort. That's one thing that can be a clear and consistent expectation no matter what the outcome of each game is. And what can anybody else expect. This team is very young. Ups and down are par for the course. And even when there are more ups than downs it's still going to take a lot more talent to get this team into contention anyway. |
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thegreatest
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| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 4:59 pm Post subject: |
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| bizz05 wrote: | I wanna start by saying I have been so high on Russell since he was drafted and he has been my favorite player for the Lakers when he entered the league.
I believe Russell is trying too much to be a pass first PG. That isn't his game and not his strength. He needs to attack the paint and have a score first mentality. He may not be able to blow past people because he isn't athletic, but needs to learn to be able to probe his way into the paint and be a legit threat to score so defenses collapse on him opening up others where he can drop off his passes. Russell is 6 freakin 5 and should be able to shoot over most pgs.
On top of it..I just don't see the fight in him on defense. His entry passes are sometimes careless. He doesn't protect the ball and seems to get picked or dribbles off his foot once a game. When it comes down to it..I just don't see him give 110% when hes out there and thats where I am disappointed the most.
Guys like Ingram, Black, and Clarkson..although they dont end up with amazing stat lines I can see and say they give it everything they have. Hopefully it can turn around for DLO the 2nd half of this season. |
Biggest issue I have with him, and more especially Julius. Maybe because I expect more from them, but it just pisses me off.
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LakerLogic
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| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 6:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Hard to teach a player to give it his all. |
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Fastbreak32
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| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 7:28 pm Post subject: |
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| LakerLogic wrote: | | Hard to teach a player to give it his all. |
That can be true. When he's locked in, he's really locked in. At other times he can be impulsive and lack focus. They need to get him doing some yoga.
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Deathstroke
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| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 7:36 pm Post subject: |
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| He needs to become more mature. That's been his biggest weakness so far. |
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Treble Clef
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| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 7:37 pm Post subject: |
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| justsomelakerfan wrote: | | Great insight on this page. Question: if Russell had been hitting his shots the past couple games, would we still think he needs to be used differently, or would we be raving about how his game is coming together in terms of how he's balancing scoring and playmaking? |
Good question. I wish the Lakers network would employ some smarter basketball minds so these topics would be covered more mainstream. So often when I watch games, when the shots are falling people are praising the ball movement and when they aren't falling, people are criticizing the hero ball and one on one emphasis. Stu was guilty last night. In the fourth everyone caught fire and Lou was making a bunch of contested shots and Nick and Clarkson were making theirs as well. Stu says something like "see what happens when the ball moves????" But the ball hadn't really moved any differently, they were just making tough shots.
Im still not sure what Russell's ideal role is on offense. I don't really like him drifting around the perimeter and throwing up quick threes whenever he gets the ball. Some games it has worked because he has been hot but I don't think that's really the best role for him. |
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Golden_Emperor_24K
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| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 9:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Dlo was 3-10 with 11 pts in only 19 mins last time we play the pacers. He needs to redeem himself from the nuggets game and every other bad game lol. Start shooting the ball better and take it to the basket more. Magic wants you to be a better leader. And to do that, you must become more consistent and play with the same passion and energy level every game. |
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levon
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| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 12:01 am Post subject: |
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| Treble Clef wrote: | | justsomelakerfan wrote: | | Great insight on this page. Question: if Russell had been hitting his shots the past couple games, would we still think he needs to be used differently, or would we be raving about how his game is coming together in terms of how he's balancing scoring and playmaking? |
Good question. I wish the Lakers network would employ some smarter basketball minds so these topics would be covered more mainstream. So often when I watch games, when the shots are falling people are praising the ball movement and when they aren't falling, people are criticizing the hero ball and one on one emphasis. Stu was guilty last night. In the fourth everyone caught fire and Lou was making a bunch of contested shots and Nick and Clarkson were making theirs as well. Stu says something like "see what happens when the ball moves????" But the ball hadn't really moved any differently, they were just making tough shots. |
They just drop a few dry aphorisms, voiceover highlights, and go home. I would like to stress though that it's not easy providing any kind of insightful analysis while sitting courtside immersed in the game, and when it's already the next play so it makes sense that they have these sort of "cold hardwired" takes. |
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J.C. Smith
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| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 12:59 am Post subject: |
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I also think its easy for fans to not think a player is giving it all when from their perspective they are doing nothing different.
Some days you just seem to have more energy than others for whatever reason (could be many factors from fatigue, mental distractions, being hungover, injured, etc). When a guy appears to not be giving their full effort they may not even realize it, they may be playing hard and just not having it.
Then something might happen, either they make a big play or someone else does, and suddenly they find themselves with a reservoir of energy they didn't realize they had in them. It's not always possible for guys to just turn that on or off at any given moment. I think we see that with both Russell and Randle. Russell seems to get going when he has it going offensively, he hits a couple shots and it rejuvenates him. Randle meanwhile seems to have those spurts defensively and that leads him into his offense. It's great to know that they have another gear that they can find to step up their game, but that's what it is, is another gear. I don't think they can bring that all the time. Hopefully over time though they will learn to bring it more often. |
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Truck Turner
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| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 1:40 am Post subject: |
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| J.C. Smith wrote: | I also think its easy for fans to not think a player is giving it all when from their perspective they are doing nothing different.
Some days you just seem to have more energy than others for whatever reason (could be many factors from fatigue, mental distractions, being hungover, injured, etc). When a guy appears to not be giving their full effort they may not even realize it, they may be playing hard and just not having it.
Then something might happen, either they make a big play or someone else does, and suddenly they find themselves with a reservoir of energy they didn't realize they had in them. It's not always possible for guys to just turn that on or off at any given moment. I think we see that with both Russell and Randle. Russell seems to get going when he has it going offensively, he hits a couple shots and it rejuvenates him. Randle meanwhile seems to have those spurts defensively and that leads him into his offense. It's great to know that they have another gear that they can find to step up their game, but that's what it is, is another gear. I don't think they can bring that all the time. Hopefully over time though they will learn to bring it more often. |
Fans are just quick to call guys lazy and not put any more thought into it than that.
I keep seeing people saying that young players shoudln't be having problems with effort.....but damn near all the young teams in the league have the exact same problem. Even the coaches of the Timberwolves and 76er's have called out their team for not playing with enough effort. |
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Purp 32
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| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 3:59 am Post subject: |
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| Part of what makes guys like LeBron and Kobe all time greats is that they brought/bring effort every time they step on the court. Have you ever seen CP3 just go through the motions on defense? If DLO wants to truly be great then that will be expected of him as well. He has so much talent, but talent can only take you so far. It's a lot to ask of a young kid, but that's what happens when you're the #2 pick for the Lakers. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 7:07 am Post subject: |
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| Deathstroke wrote: | | He needs to become more mature. That's been his biggest weakness so far. |
No doubt. But think of yourself at age 20. We put impossibly high standards on these kids maturity wise.
I do agree his motivation/fire/fight, those are in question right now. He needs to show these things constantly even if his scoring is off.
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 7:08 am Post subject: |
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| Purp 32 wrote: | | Part of what makes guys like LeBron and Kobe all time greats is that they brought/bring effort every time they step on the court. Have you ever seen CP3 just go through the motions on defense? If DLO wants to truly be great then that will be expected of him as well. He has so much talent, but talent can only take you so far. It's a lot to ask of a young kid, but that's what happens when you're the #2 pick for the Lakers. |
That's kind of a high standard, no? 99.9% of the NBA would fail if they were compared to LBJ/Kobe/CP3.
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Vesper
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| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 7:09 am Post subject: |
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Or the young core needs to be broken up.
Reminds me of hs kids in a gym that don't do anything and chit chat around the weights all day long |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 7:12 am Post subject: |
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| Vesper wrote: | Or the young core needs to be broken up.
Reminds me of hs kids in a gym that don't do anything and stuff chat around the weights all day long |
The problem is with the new CBA, you don't want to break up young cores unnecessarily.
I think we didn't surround them with the right kind of veterans (i.e. Moz/Deng are not cutting it).
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 8:27 am Post subject: |
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Good read from FB&G:
| Quote: | The first obvious point with Russell is that he’s already producing in a meaningful way, even with the maddening (and recent) inconsistency. His current per 36 stats jump off the page: 19.7 PTS, 5.1 REB, 6.1 AST, 1.7 STL, 2.7 3PM.
In addition, he is near the top of the historic leaderboard in several areas for his age:
•#3 highest PER (15.4) for age 20 & under PG (Irving, Rose, Wall)
•#1 highest 3PM/g (2.0) and 3PM/per36 (2.7) for age 20 & under player
•#4 highest AST/per36 (6.1) and #5 AST% (27.5) for age 20 & under player
•#4 highest USG% (27.2) for age 20 & under player
•#4 highest REB% (7.8) for age 20 & under PG
Russell isn’t a great PG yet, but he’s clearly one of the best PGs for his age ever to play. He may be the single best under 22 PG in the league. And he is already showing the capacity to carry the primary load of an NBA offense for significant stretches, ranking in the top 30 in the league in USG%, ahead of ball dominant stars like Paul George, Durant, Butler, Conley, etc. And he’s able to do something with those possessions – to score from all three levels, make 3s at a historic rate for his age, be a force from the post, increasingly get into the lane and finish, and zip creative passes to finishers in efficient spots (a recent article found that his passes increased teammate shooting efficiency by 6%).
When looking forward, it’s important to remember that Russell won’t BEGIN his prime for 5 years, allowing for an enormous amount of time to grow. This is critical because his weaknesses are largely a matter of approach rather than talent – figuring out when to attack, when to dial it back, when to look for his shot first, how to read complex defenses, team defense, and so forth. The physical attributes plus skills are there, however, and the question is whether he will put in the work to maximize them. At worst, the Lakers should have a solid lead guard who can score 20+ from all over the court and engine the offense for years; at best, they have the next great PG who will take the mantle from Curry/Westbrook/Harden/Paul when they move on. Which side of that line he ends up on could determine how high the team ascends in this era.
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justsomelakerfan
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| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 8:29 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Vesper wrote: | Or the young core needs to be broken up.
Reminds me of hs kids in a gym that don't do anything and stuff chat around the weights all day long |
The problem is with the new CBA, you don't want to break up young cores unnecessarily.
I think we didn't surround them with the right kind of veterans (i.e. Moz/Deng are not cutting it). |
I won't keep going on with the poor roster construct, but I will one more time. I think a big problem is less of a product of getting the wrong veterans, but keeping together a team that's hardly maximized its roster spots. Still kind of related to getting the wrong talent, but that would sting less if these deals were shorter, let's be honest.
Also, HS kids that don't do anything in a gym? Vesper, did you forget about the Breakfast Club this summer or what? 
Can it always be summer league '16? Those were the good ol' days.
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Vesper
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| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 8:32 am Post subject: |
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| justsomelakerfan wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Vesper wrote: | Or the young core needs to be broken up.
Reminds me of hs kids in a gym that don't do anything and stuff chat around the weights all day long |
The problem is with the new CBA, you don't want to break up young cores unnecessarily.
I think we didn't surround them with the right kind of veterans (i.e. Moz/Deng are not cutting it). |
I won't keep going on with the poor roster construct, but I will one more time. I think a big problem is less of a product of getting the wrong veterans, but keeping together a team that's hardly maximized its roster spots. Still kind of related to getting the wrong talent, but that would sting less if these deals were shorter, let's be honest.
Also, HS kids that don't do anything in a gym? Vesper, did you forget about the Breakfast Club this summer or what?
Can it always be summer league '16? Those were the good ol' days. |
I dont know what is worse.
HS kids at gyms or old people treating the gym like a country club... |
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Dr. Funkbot
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| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 8:38 am Post subject: |
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| justsomelakerfan wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | justsomelakerfan wrote: | | Great insight on this page. Question: if Russell had been hitting his shots the past couple games, would we still think he needs to be used differently, or would we be raving about how his game is coming together in terms of how he's balancing scoring and playmaking? |
As one of the more vocal DLO supporters here, balance is still needed now and in the long term. |
But that's my point. I think he's been a fine playmaker as a "pass first PG," he just hasn't been hitting his shots. I don't see the difference between starting JC or Nick when they basically do the same thing. I think he could use Ingram's ability to make plays on the starting lineup to get him going in more off-ball opportunities... But I have really enjoyed his development as a point guard this month. He's just not hitting his shots, at least that's how I see it. |
Agreed, he has missed open 3's in his skid. If a few more of those go in, he does not get taken out and his D probably perks up too. BUT, and this is not entirely on him, a lot of those open 3's he has missed have been off the dribble. All of the players seem to make a better % when they shoot off the pass. Which then goes back to the lack of playmakers on the first unit.
I think DLO should trust the offense and not try to go one on one unless he has the hot shooting touch.
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LakersRGolden
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| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 8:50 am Post subject: |
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It also depends on your teammates and role to an under-rated degree. Everyone is a frontrunner. When you have the better lineup and you're going against second stringers, that's all you do is frontrun. When you are in a starting unit going against the best in the world and everyone knows you're lineup is overmatched, you're not frontrunning. You still have to bring it obviously but it's harder.
The Denver game was fueled by Zubac and Black having great games. Russell had 0 seconds on the floor with Zubac.
Luke really needs to kill the hockey subs and let Russell and Randle run against the other teams subs some and play with some scorers. He keeps talking about the chemistry of the 2nd unit, but he completely ignores the lack of chemistry in the starters. |
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Fastbreak32
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Joined: 11 Oct 2011
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| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 11:21 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | Good read from FB&G:
| Quote: | The first obvious point with Russell is that he’s already producing in a meaningful way, even with the maddening (and recent) inconsistency. His current per 36 stats jump off the page: 19.7 PTS, 5.1 REB, 6.1 AST, 1.7 STL, 2.7 3PM.
In addition, he is near the top of the historic leaderboard in several areas for his age:
•#3 highest PER (15.4) for age 20 & under PG (Irving, Rose, Wall)
•#1 highest 3PM/g (2.0) and 3PM/per36 (2.7) for age 20 & under player
•#4 highest AST/per36 (6.1) and #5 AST% (27.5) for age 20 & under player
•#4 highest USG% (27.2) for age 20 & under player
•#4 highest REB% (7.8) for age 20 & under PG
Russell isn’t a great PG yet, but he’s clearly one of the best PGs for his age ever to play. He may be the single best under 22 PG in the league. And he is already showing the capacity to carry the primary load of an NBA offense for significant stretches, ranking in the top 30 in the league in USG%, ahead of ball dominant stars like Paul George, Durant, Butler, Conley, etc. And he’s able to do something with those possessions – to score from all three levels, make 3s at a historic rate for his age, be a force from the post, increasingly get into the lane and finish, and zip creative passes to finishers in efficient spots (a recent article found that his passes increased teammate shooting efficiency by 6%).
When looking forward, it’s important to remember that Russell won’t BEGIN his prime for 5 years, allowing for an enormous amount of time to grow. This is critical because his weaknesses are largely a matter of approach rather than talent – figuring out when to attack, when to dial it back, when to look for his shot first, how to read complex defenses, team defense, and so forth. The physical attributes plus skills are there, however, and the question is whether he will put in the work to maximize them. At worst, the Lakers should have a solid lead guard who can score 20+ from all over the court and engine the offense for years; at best, they have the next great PG who will take the mantle from Curry/Westbrook/Harden/Paul when they move on. Which side of that line he ends up on could determine how high the team ascends in this era.
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Thanks, man. I agree that it's about his approach. Hopefully he listens to the right mentors and applies the knowledge. He also needs to practice focus, since focus is a skill that can be acquired.
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LeBron, AD, & _________. Stay tuned.
"...there was a time when the Israelites were wandering in the desert and all of a sudden, bread came down from heaven,” Pelinka said. “That’s kind of what today feels like for us to have KCP join.” |
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Lakers_Jester
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Joined: 17 Sep 2012
Posts: 5366
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| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 12:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Fastbreak32 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | Good read from FB&G:
| Quote: | The first obvious point with Russell is that he’s already producing in a meaningful way, even with the maddening (and recent) inconsistency. His current per 36 stats jump off the page: 19.7 PTS, 5.1 REB, 6.1 AST, 1.7 STL, 2.7 3PM.
In addition, he is near the top of the historic leaderboard in several areas for his age:
•#3 highest PER (15.4) for age 20 & under PG (Irving, Rose, Wall)
•#1 highest 3PM/g (2.0) and 3PM/per36 (2.7) for age 20 & under player
•#4 highest AST/per36 (6.1) and #5 AST% (27.5) for age 20 & under player
•#4 highest USG% (27.2) for age 20 & under player
•#4 highest REB% (7.8) for age 20 & under PG
Russell isn’t a great PG yet, but he’s clearly one of the best PGs for his age ever to play. He may be the single best under 22 PG in the league. And he is already showing the capacity to carry the primary load of an NBA offense for significant stretches, ranking in the top 30 in the league in USG%, ahead of ball dominant stars like Paul George, Durant, Butler, Conley, etc. And he’s able to do something with those possessions – to score from all three levels, make 3s at a historic rate for his age, be a force from the post, increasingly get into the lane and finish, and zip creative passes to finishers in efficient spots (a recent article found that his passes increased teammate shooting efficiency by 6%).
When looking forward, it’s important to remember that Russell won’t BEGIN his prime for 5 years, allowing for an enormous amount of time to grow. This is critical because his weaknesses are largely a matter of approach rather than talent – figuring out when to attack, when to dial it back, when to look for his shot first, how to read complex defenses, team defense, and so forth. The physical attributes plus skills are there, however, and the question is whether he will put in the work to maximize them. At worst, the Lakers should have a solid lead guard who can score 20+ from all over the court and engine the offense for years; at best, they have the next great PG who will take the mantle from Curry/Westbrook/Harden/Paul when they move on. Which side of that line he ends up on could determine how high the team ascends in this era.
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Thanks, man. I agree that it's about his approach. Hopefully he listens to the right mentors and applies the knowledge. He also needs to practice focus, since focus is a skill that can be acquired. |
Encouraging |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 12:57 pm Post subject: |
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I know there's some merit to comparing DLO with the current greats, but it's also important contextually to compare him to players at his age group. This is why I'm hopeful b/c he is showing signs and talent, which is seemingly buried by questionable attitude/motivation.
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nash
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| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 2:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Purp 32 wrote: | | Part of what makes guys like LeBron and Kobe all time greats is that they brought/bring effort every time they step on the court. Have you ever seen CP3 just go through the motions on defense? If DLO wants to truly be great then that will be expected of him as well. He has so much talent, but talent can only take you so far. It's a lot to ask of a young kid, but that's what happens when you're the #2 pick for the Lakers. |
Big  |
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nash
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Posts: 8194
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| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 2:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Lakers_Jester wrote: | | Fastbreak32 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | Good read from FB&G:
| Quote: | The first obvious point with Russell is that he’s already producing in a meaningful way, even with the maddening (and recent) inconsistency. His current per 36 stats jump off the page: 19.7 PTS, 5.1 REB, 6.1 AST, 1.7 STL, 2.7 3PM.
In addition, he is near the top of the historic leaderboard in several areas for his age:
•#3 highest PER (15.4) for age 20 & under PG (Irving, Rose, Wall)
•#1 highest 3PM/g (2.0) and 3PM/per36 (2.7) for age 20 & under player
•#4 highest AST/per36 (6.1) and #5 AST% (27.5) for age 20 & under player
•#4 highest USG% (27.2) for age 20 & under player
•#4 highest REB% (7.8) for age 20 & under PG
Russell isn’t a great PG yet, but he’s clearly one of the best PGs for his age ever to play. He may be the single best under 22 PG in the league. And he is already showing the capacity to carry the primary load of an NBA offense for significant stretches, ranking in the top 30 in the league in USG%, ahead of ball dominant stars like Paul George, Durant, Butler, Conley, etc. And he’s able to do something with those possessions – to score from all three levels, make 3s at a historic rate for his age, be a force from the post, increasingly get into the lane and finish, and zip creative passes to finishers in efficient spots (a recent article found that his passes increased teammate shooting efficiency by 6%).
When looking forward, it’s important to remember that Russell won’t BEGIN his prime for 5 years, allowing for an enormous amount of time to grow. This is critical because his weaknesses are largely a matter of approach rather than talent – figuring out when to attack, when to dial it back, when to look for his shot first, how to read complex defenses, team defense, and so forth. The physical attributes plus skills are there, however, and the question is whether he will put in the work to maximize them. At worst, the Lakers should have a solid lead guard who can score 20+ from all over the court and engine the offense for years; at best, they have the next great PG who will take the mantle from Curry/Westbrook/Harden/Paul when they move on. Which side of that line he ends up on could determine how high the team ascends in this era.
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Thanks, man. I agree that it's about his approach. Hopefully he listens to the right mentors and applies the knowledge. He also needs to practice focus, since focus is a skill that can be acquired. |
Encouraging |
Encouraging, but not accurate at all.
Guards with a better PER at age of 20 include not just Kyrie, CP3 and Wall, but also Arenas, Parker, Marbury, Rose and Holiday. What I can say about that is that he is in great company even if he can't touch CP3 and Kyrie numbers. Just to have an idea about how good he is at his age, he is a tad ahead of Westbrook, Harden and Bibby using PER.
When we talk about BPM that a few posters seems to value over PER and WS he is behind Jennings, Rondo and Marcus Smart, but I'm not a big fan of this stat, as much as I love Nance, it is not blind love to believe he is as good as his BPM is telling us and Marcus Smart ... well, he can defend. |
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