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El Seano
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Joined: 14 Nov 2008
Posts: 895
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 Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 12:09 pm Post subject: |
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| TheBlackMamba wrote: | | Holy (bleep), he killed that initial recovery timeline of 4-6 weeks. When was the last time a Laker returned from injury AHEAD of schedule? |
In 2013 Metta World Peace underwent knee surgery to repair a meniscus tear which understandably you'd think would take weeks or months. He returned to action 12 days later and when asked how on earth he returned that fast would only respond "I'm too sexy for my cat".
https://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ball-dont-lie/metta-world-peace-explains-m-too-sexy-cat-134737542--nba.html |
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Sentient Meat
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Joined: 04 Jul 2014
Posts: 12978
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| Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 12:10 pm Post subject: |
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Nothing like the play of Kuzma and Randle to act like a healing accelerant
I just hope he's not pushing himself too fast. |
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pjiddy
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Posts: 29060
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| Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 12:17 pm Post subject: |
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Lakers have to move Nance or Randle, IMO. It's a logjam already before you even consider our offseason free agency goals. Randle is proving a more valuable and more durable player than Nance. Nance is also much more moveable with another year of his rookie deal. Pair him with Deng (or gulp, JC) and it's more much palatable. If Nance is indeed put into the starting lineup, it could be as an auditioning role.
Last edited by pjiddy on Tue Nov 21, 2017 12:20 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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greenfrog
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Location: 502 Bad Gateway
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| Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 12:18 pm Post subject: |
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| dao wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | dao wrote: | | 32 wrote: | | When Larry comes back he will come off the bench right? |
Nance and Randle haven't really played well together in the past. It's important to have at least one frontcourt player that can spread the floor. I think Luke will put Nance back into the starting lineup. Kuzma/Randle is a great frontcourt pairing for the second unit.
Kuzma will still play around 30 mpg though. |
Given the embarrassing scarcity of competent shooting on the floor, I don't see how he can seriously consider not starting Kuzma. He knows how important 3-point shooting is. |
I don't disagree. Kuzma's shooting is crucial in the starting unit. Neither Lonzo nor Ingram are three point threats, so it's nice to have two frontcourt players that can shoot.
The issue is the second unit though. Nance/Randle isn't really an ideal pairing. Especially with Brewer at the 3.
Clarkson
Hart
Brewer
Nance
Randle
The spacing of this unit would be downright brutal. It would be pretty darn good defensively, though. |
Not just are those two not 3-point shooting threats, they go out of their way (if these last two games are indicative of a trend with Ball) to avoid taking the shot. The most logical solution would be to move Ingram to the bench where he can play point forward and dominate the bad defense of second units, but who even knows if that's a politically viable option. |
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dao
Star Player
Joined: 02 Jan 2013
Posts: 5572
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| Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 12:44 pm Post subject: |
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| greenfrog wrote: | | dao wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | dao wrote: | | 32 wrote: | | When Larry comes back he will come off the bench right? |
Nance and Randle haven't really played well together in the past. It's important to have at least one frontcourt player that can spread the floor. I think Luke will put Nance back into the starting lineup. Kuzma/Randle is a great frontcourt pairing for the second unit.
Kuzma will still play around 30 mpg though. |
Given the embarrassing scarcity of competent shooting on the floor, I don't see how he can seriously consider not starting Kuzma. He knows how important 3-point shooting is. |
I don't disagree. Kuzma's shooting is crucial in the starting unit. Neither Lonzo nor Ingram are three point threats, so it's nice to have two frontcourt players that can shoot.
The issue is the second unit though. Nance/Randle isn't really an ideal pairing. Especially with Brewer at the 3.
Clarkson
Hart
Brewer
Nance
Randle
The spacing of this unit would be downright brutal. It would be pretty darn good defensively, though. |
Not just are those two not 3-point shooting threats, they go out of their way (if these last two games are indicative of a trend with Ball) to avoid taking the shot. The most logical solution would be to move Ingram to the bench where he can play point forward and dominate the bad defense of second units, but who even knows if that's a politically viable option. |
I don't like the idea of playing Kuzma at SF; he's a 4 imo. Also, Ingram's development is crucial to the team. Starting him is not just politics, it's development. And he's getting better. Benching him is really not an option. You can make the same argument for Kuzma. I don't think I'd send him back to the bench. Kuzma is basically a high level prospect now. |
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The Juggernaut
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Joined: 24 Aug 2017
Posts: 4572
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| Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 12:47 pm Post subject: |
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| pjiddy wrote: | | Lakers have to move Nance or Randle, IMO. It's a logjam already before you even consider our offseason free agency goals. Randle is proving a more valuable and more durable player than Nance. Nance is also much more moveable with another year of his rookie deal. Pair him with Deng (or gulp, JC) and it's more much palatable. If Nance is indeed put into the starting lineup, it could be as an auditioning role. |
Nance as trade bait is interesting. I'd hate to see him go but if we can dump Deng by using Nance and a future 1st then we have to do it. |
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dao
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Joined: 02 Jan 2013
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| Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 12:47 pm Post subject: |
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| pjiddy wrote: | | Lakers have to move Nance or Randle, IMO. It's a logjam already before you even consider our offseason free agency goals. Randle is proving a more valuable and more durable player than Nance. Nance is also much more moveable with another year of his rookie deal. Pair him with Deng (or gulp, JC) and it's more much palatable. If Nance is indeed put into the starting lineup, it could be as an auditioning role. |
Moving Nance just to clear the logjam is not the right move. He's cheap, effective, and wouldn't complain if he was given 5 mpg. The only way you move Nance is if it involves dumping Deng's contract.
Randle is obviously the guy that is most likely to be moved. His contract status is the elephant in the room. |
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rogers49
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Posts: 1182
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| Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 1:05 pm Post subject: |
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| J.C. Smith wrote: | | durden-tyler wrote: | | The way Kuz is playing, do you think Nance will go back to the bench ? |
Possibly not. Luke might not think there is enough spacing with a Nance/Randle bench and move him back to the bench. |
With Nance coming back, Randle's days and minutes as a Laker are numbered and decreasing. |
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greenfrog
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Location: 502 Bad Gateway
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| Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 1:09 pm Post subject: |
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| The Juggernaut wrote: | | pjiddy wrote: | | Lakers have to move Nance or Randle, IMO. It's a logjam already before you even consider our offseason free agency goals. Randle is proving a more valuable and more durable player than Nance. Nance is also much more moveable with another year of his rookie deal. Pair him with Deng (or gulp, JC) and it's more much palatable. If Nance is indeed put into the starting lineup, it could be as an auditioning role. |
Nance as trade bait is interesting. I'd hate to see him go but if we can dump Deng by using Nance and a future 1st then we have to do it. |
Do you honestly think he has that kind of value? I love Larry, but c'mon. |
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rogers49
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Posts: 1182
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| Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 1:10 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | Ball and Kuzma are far from being stars. At least Ball is only 19, so he has more time. Stars are stars at 22, very few take until their mid to late 20’s to show star quality, with a few exceptions. |
Ball is 20. |
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J.C. Smith
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Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 12670
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| Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 2:40 pm Post subject: |
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| rogers49 wrote: | | With Nance coming back, Randle's days and minutes as a Laker are numbered and decreasing. |
How they handle the minutes there will be telling about both guys futures. Lakers are going to need to decide between them this season. That having been said, there is no way that Larry Nance can give them the same impact that Randle has this season. The question is whether the team feels that Randle is worth the additional money it will cost to keep him. If they feel that way then they'll look to move Larry, and if they'll move Randle.
I think financially Randle isn't 5x more valuable than Nance, so that's a big plus in Nance's favor. Randle's is more effective at center though, and an overall better player. |
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AFireInside619
Franchise Player
Joined: 11 Dec 2015
Posts: 11447
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| Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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| rogers49 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Ball and Kuzma are far from being stars. At least Ball is only 19, so he has more time. Stars are stars at 22, very few take until their mid to late 20’s to show star quality, with a few exceptions. |
Ball is 20. |
Dude. You just VLFed VLF!!! |
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Inspector Gadget
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PHILosophize
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Joined: 05 Nov 2012
Posts: 10758
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| Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 2:02 pm Post subject: |
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| AFireInside619 wrote: | | rogers49 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Ball and Kuzma are far from being stars. At least Ball is only 19, so he has more time. Stars are stars at 22, very few take until their mid to late 20’s to show star quality, with a few exceptions. |
Ball is 20. |
Dude. You just VLFed VLF!!! |
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Dr. Funkbot
Star Player
Joined: 24 Sep 2001
Posts: 8188
Location: Eagle Rock
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| Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 3:44 pm Post subject: |
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What the heck vent? Why so salty about kuz, I don’t understand how you can dog that guy, he’s played amazingly well for a rookie.
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Daphanabe
Star Player
Joined: 24 Nov 2007
Posts: 2768
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| Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 4:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Dr. Funkbot wrote: | | What the heck vent? Why so salty about kuz, I don’t understand how you can dog that guy, he’s played amazingly well for a rookie. |
Minimising Kuzma, minimises Magic and the FO. Simple as that. |
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RI Laker
Star Player
Joined: 27 Jun 2005
Posts: 7148
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| Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 4:33 pm Post subject: |
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| It seems we have gotten out of the gate much slower since LNJ got hurt. |
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KingKobe20
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Joined: 14 Jul 2006
Posts: 18651
Location: L.A County, 26 miles away from Staples Center
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| Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 5:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Inspector Gadget wrote: | https://mobile.twitter.com/LakersReporter/status/933577600714162177
Looks like Nance will be back for the Clippers game. We are gonna need his energy. |
This is great news.
I truly believe we would of won like 2-3 more games if Larry didn’t get hurt. His energy and defense has been missed.
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-Kanye
aka ILLWiLL20
R.I.P PHIL |
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Kjj10697X
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Joined: 02 Dec 2012
Posts: 375
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| Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 5:35 pm Post subject: |
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| KingKobe20 wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | https://mobile.twitter.com/LakersReporter/status/933577600714162177
Looks like Nance will be back for the Clippers game. We are gonna need his energy. |
This is great news.
I truly believe we would of won like 2-3 more games if Larry didn’t get hurt. His energy and defense has been missed. |
Larry makes a difference in the team. When we see Kuzma guarding a center after a switch, it’s almost always automatic they score. If that was Larry, we have a better chance of getting the stop. |
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venturalakersfan
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Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144462
Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 8:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Dr. Funkbot wrote: | | What the heck vent? Why so salty about kuz, I don’t understand how you can dog that guy, he’s played amazingly well for a rookie. |
Because I’m not delusional enough to think he is a star? Laker fans do this all the time, build up a player to something he isn’t and then tear him down when they are wrong. Some are doing it to Ball already. Why can’t we just enjoy watching the young players develop?
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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Inspector Gadget
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| Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 8:31 pm Post subject: |
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| KingKobe20 wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | https://mobile.twitter.com/LakersReporter/status/933577600714162177
Looks like Nance will be back for the Clippers game. We are gonna need his energy. |
This is great news.
I truly believe we would of won like 2-3 more games if Larry didn’t get hurt. His energy and defense has been missed. |
Should have won the Boston and Portland game, but those loses will make us stronger in the long run. |
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incontrol__
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Posts: 185
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| Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 9:55 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | Ball and Kuzma are far from being stars. At least Ball is only 19, so he has more time. Stars are stars at 22, very few take until their mid to late 20’s to show star quality, with a few exceptions. |
I mean it's Kuzma's first year in the league and he's doing very well. Yes we all know that the older a player is the less years they have to hone their craft before their 'prime'. However, players who are 22 or older showing their All-Star quality or potential isn't as uncommon as people seem to have the impression of.
Oladipo looks very good this season. Tobias Harris is looking very good. How old are they? Look at Isaiah Thomas, Marc Gasol, Jimmy Butler, Damian Lillard, Kyle Lowry, Kemba Walker, Paul Millsap, Draymond Green, Gordon Hayward.
I mean, jesus, Curry and Thompson didn't even enter the NBA until they were 21.
Kuzma is 22. He's averaging 16.8 PPG, 6.3 RPG, with 49.8/36.6/75.9 shooting splits. He makes quick decisions, he cuts off the ball incredibly well. He runs the floor. He's developing. There's a distinct possibility that he develops into a Paul Millsap or better. He makes rookie mistakes. He has things to work on, things to improve. So far he's shown nothing but promise and a varied skillset in his first 19 games.
I would say Kuzma currently looks like he could project into a Millsap/Harris type player, and considering how good he's looking thus far this season it's pretty difficult to put a cap on his potential.
If he continues to develop defensively, continues improving his shot, continues cutting out the wrong shots, learns to make the extra pass more, rebounds better... guy is going to be an absolutely incredible pick up for us.
Stop capping out players who stayed in college and are 21-24.
Yes, they have less of a chance of developing into superstars than the players picked before them, players younger than them, naturally, due to time and partially because a lot of superstars are pretty clearly going to become superstars from their mid to late teens, and thus they get picked early.
Again, stop pretending that it's a 1 in a million type chance for someone like Kuzma to have a great rookie season and keep improving from there to the point where he winds up as a star.
Be cautiously optimistic? Of course! Heck, I think he realistically caps out as a good to very good starter or if he doesn't work on his defense, rebounding, etc, as a 6th man of the year type player.
He's shown a whole lot and has an incredible touch and feel for the game. It gets old seeing people spout "he's 22/21, this is what he is". None of us knows. It's good to not shout at the top of your lungs he's absolutely going to be a superstar, but equally it's stupid to cap out his potential or pretend the likelihood of him developing into an all-star is nigh-impossible.
People need to start enjoying watching these guys grow as players and stop trying to be 'right' about them. You can look at their skillset, their tendencies, the areas they need work on, what they need to develop, etc.
Last edited by incontrol__ on Thu Nov 23, 2017 10:16 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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MJST
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Posts: 26315
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| Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 10:14 pm Post subject: |
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| KingKobe20 wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | https://mobile.twitter.com/LakersReporter/status/933577600714162177
Looks like Nance will be back for the Clippers game. We are gonna need his energy. |
This is great news.
I truly believe we would of won like 2-3 more games if Larry didn’t get hurt. His energy and defense has been missed. |
I doubt he'd have put forth the scoring that Kuzma did as well as the floor spacing which also helped the starting lineup.
Nance is what he is, at this point and there's no reason for him to replace Kuzma in the starting lineup if that's the pecking order. He's gonna have to learn to be a backup 4 or 5 with Randle playing the backup 4.
Luke put him in that starting lineup and it protected him from how bad he looks as backup 4/5 or starting 5.
If Luke hands the starting spot back to Nance then again, it goes back on what Luke's said about "Earning" spots. There's no way Kuzma hasn't earned it. Kuzma and Randle both deserve the starting spot more than Nance does, it's just a fact tbh. If Nance never got hurt, Luke never would have started him, but NOW if he benches Kuzma for Nance then it looks worse on his rhetoric and again paints it as bull[expletive].
If Luke's excuse is "Well Nance isn't that good with the bench" then you reward him with the starting position because he's a bad backup? Is that how it is now? What about "earning" it?
If it's really about "earning" it, than Nance should have to "earn" the spot from Kuzma, whom has thoroughly outplayed him at it during the regular season, and Julius did in the pre-season.
So once more, Nance can't be masked by the starting lineup anymore, otherwise Luke is gonna deal with a firestorm and his job jeopardy, because Kuzma is a favorite of Magic's too. So yeah.
Nance is headed back to the bench where he should have been. it's up to him to be able to play backup 4 or 5 and pair well with Randle or he's odd-man out.
So we'll see what Luke does, if he just hands the spot back to Nance it says all that needs to be said about his rhetoric continuing to mean nothing.
That said, glad to have him back, but with Randle and Kuzma's play as of late, I'm not sure where Nance fits if he can't play backup 4 or 5 capably.
Instead of trying to mask all the problems Nance showed during pre-season and gifting him the starting spot once Lopez came back to try to hide them, he should have asked Nance to work on them and earn more playing time. But this is Luke we're talking about after all.
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Last edited by MJST on Thu Nov 23, 2017 10:21 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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adkindo
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Location: Dirty South
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| Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 10:20 pm Post subject: |
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| MJST wrote: | I doubt he'd have put forth the scoring that Kuzma did as well as the floor spacing which also helped the starting lineup.
Nance is what he is, at this point and there's no reason for him to replace Kuzma in the starting lineup if that's the pecking order. |
do the numbers back up this? I do not know. I would like to see if the offensive rating and defensive rating has changed since Kuzma became a starter? Did Kuzma's impact on the starting lineup outweigh losing his scoring in the second unit? I think its a lot more than just isolating on Kuzma's performance.....because he was performing well off the bench.
as far as being a Center....Nance has never performed well at Center.....unlike Randle....so I assume Nance is either the starting #4 or the backup #4. |
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MJST
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| Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 10:33 pm Post subject: |
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Beginning of the season
Kuzma(off the bench) 14/5/1.7 on 53% from the field 35.7% from three
Randle(off the bench in 19 MPG) 11/5/1.7 1 BPG on 63% from field 25% from three
Nance(starter) 11/8/1 0.6 BPG on 60% from the field 0% from three
Kuzma (Portland game and beyond) 18.4/7/1.4 on 48.3% from field 37% from three.
Randle (up to 23 MPG) 12.6/8/2 on 51.3% from field and 25% from three
Considering the fact that Kuzma is closer to the goal Magic set for Ingram at 20 ppg as a starter, there's no reason Nance should start.
Considering Julius has proven he's a better defender than Nance in every way now(which makes him better at BOTH ends), there's no reason to give Nance precedence over him.
Nance was put in the starting lineup to protect him from the faults he showed he still had during pre-season that Lopez could mask. Not because he earned it.
But in his absence, both Kuzma and Randle have stepped up because Luke begrudgingly increased their roles and both showed themselves to be better than Nance.
If you want to be completely frank here, if you want a role for Nance that Luke could try, he could always try to give him Brewer's run-slasher role. They both can't be counted on to shoot threes and Nance always said he felt he could play the 3. So why not test that out with the bench?
Then again.. Luke hasn't even tried Kuzma at the 3 and Ingram at the 2 again so I put that kind of thinking past Luke tbh.
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How NBA 2K18 failed the All-Time Lakers:
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