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RI Laker Star Player
Joined: 27 Jun 2005 Posts: 7135
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Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 4:05 am Post subject: |
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greenfrog wrote: | venturalakersfan wrote: | Chronicle wrote: | You can't say x is overrated or underrated on lg because the fanbase is significantly divided on literally everything |
It is when posters talk about him being our MVP that I see him being overrated. I love Nance and was excited when we drafted him, but while he is a very important player on the team, there are others that are just better. And that is one of Nance's strengths, he understands what he can do and doesn't try to do more. My only complaints about him were rebounding, which is doing a better job of this season, and passing up open shots. And he has been doing that less lately as well. |
They've been winning games and outscoring opponents (15 out of 20 games before last night) largely because of the bench. I think he's co-MVP with Lou. |
I agree with you 100% Greenfrog. Lou has been our most reliable player on the offensive end and Nance has been our most reliable on the defensive end. They both have the highest player efficiency rating on the team. These guys have delivered during crunch time more times than anyone else in their respective roles. Nobody here is saying they our the best players (they are not), but I think they have been responsible for more wins than anybody else on the team. I think this is an honest assessment overall without catering to the various fan clubs of certain players on the team. |
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pio2u Retired Number
Joined: 26 Dec 2012 Posts: 54520
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Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 5:23 am Post subject: |
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RI Laker wrote: | greenfrog wrote: | venturalakersfan wrote: | Chronicle wrote: | You can't say x is overrated or underrated on lg because the fanbase is significantly divided on literally everything |
It is when posters talk about him being our MVP that I see him being overrated. I love Nance and was excited when we drafted him, but while he is a very important player on the team, there are others that are just better. And that is one of Nance's strengths, he understands what he can do and doesn't try to do more. My only complaints about him were rebounding, which is doing a better job of this season, and passing up open shots. And he has been doing that less lately as well. |
They've been winning games and outscoring opponents (15 out of 20 games before last night) largely because of the bench. I think he's co-MVP with Lou. |
I agree with you 100% Greenfrog. Lou has been our most reliable player on the offensive end and Nance has been our most reliable on the defensive end. They both have the highest player efficiency rating on the team. These guys have delivered during crunch time more times than anyone else in their respective roles. Nobody here is saying they our the best players (they are not), but I think they have been responsible for more wins than anybody else on the team. I think this is an honest assessment overall without catering to the various fan clubs of certain players on the team. | |
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nash Star Player
Joined: 23 Oct 2001 Posts: 8194
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Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 11:37 am Post subject: |
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RI Laker wrote: |
I agree with you 100% Greenfrog. Lou has been our most reliable player on the offensive end and Nance has been our most reliable on the defensive end. They both have the highest player efficiency rating on the team. These guys have delivered during crunch time more times than anyone else in their respective roles. Nobody here is saying they our the best players (they are not), but I think they have been responsible for more wins than anybody else on the team. I think this is an honest assessment overall without catering to the various fan clubs of certain players on the team. |
The best player is not always the most talented or the one with the greater upside, but the way a player impact the team performance through the season. Nance is not going to score 40 like Lou or Dlo neither grab 20 boards like Julius, but he brings to the table an efficient all round game most nights. Talking about peaks our best player can be Lou, Dlo or even Nick Young in any given night, but what separates them for the true superstars is that none can score 40 five games in a row and when they are not scoring there are so little they can contribute. Nance is far from a superstar, but advanced stats tells us he is a top 3 player on this team because he is helping us to win games most nights with his high efficiency all round contribution.
Calling him a future all star is overrating because he plays like a high level role player, but calling him a top 3 Lakers player this season is not. |
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venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144432 Location: The Gold Coast
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Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 11:39 am Post subject: |
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Actually the best player is almost always the most talented and the one with greater upside. And I can't think of one in the league that comes off the bench. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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RI Laker Star Player
Joined: 27 Jun 2005 Posts: 7135
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Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 12:05 pm Post subject: |
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nash wrote: | RI Laker wrote: |
I agree with you 100% Greenfrog. Lou has been our most reliable player on the offensive end and Nance has been our most reliable on the defensive end. They both have the highest player efficiency rating on the team. These guys have delivered during crunch time more times than anyone else in their respective roles. Nobody here is saying they our the best players (they are not), but I think they have been responsible for more wins than anybody else on the team. I think this is an honest assessment overall without catering to the various fan clubs of certain players on the team. |
The best player is not always the most talented or the one with the greater upside, but the way a player impact the team performance through the season. Nance is not going to score 40 like Lou or Dlo neither grab 20 boards like Julius, but he brings to the table an efficient all round game most nights. Talking about peaks our best player can be Lou, Dlo or even Nick Young in any given night, but what separates them for the true superstars is that none can score 40 five games in a row and when they are not scoring there are so little they can contribute. Nance is far from a superstar, but advanced stats tells us he is a top 3 player on this team because he is helping us to win games most nights with his high efficiency all round contribution.
Calling him a future all star is overrating because he plays like a high level role player, but calling him a top 3 Lakers player this season is not. |
I am confused about your response. You must have been responding at another post. |
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nash Star Player
Joined: 23 Oct 2001 Posts: 8194
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Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 12:10 pm Post subject: |
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venturalakersfan wrote: | Actually the best player is almost always the most talented and the one with greater upside. And I can't think of one in the league that comes off the bench. |
Our players with greatest upside (probably Dlo and Ingram) aren't ready to produce with the consistency that Lou are showing coming from the bench. At this point they may be our best player for one game not most nights. Dlo is a lot closer, we can argue he is a top 3 to 5 player right now while Ingram is not close to deliver what Nance can do most nights. Our pool of talent is deep, but this team is lacking top level talent, no starter is producing anywhere near what Lou is giving us and everybody knows he is a player best suited to be a 6th man.
Last edited by nash on Sun Dec 04, 2016 4:24 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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greenfrog Retired Number
Joined: 02 Jan 2011 Posts: 36081 Location: 502 Bad Gateway
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Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 1:24 pm Post subject: |
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venturalakersfan wrote: | Actually the best player is almost always the most talented and the one with greater upside. And I can't think of one in the league that comes off the bench. |
What other bench regularly outscores its team's starters, which is what that "15 out of 20" line was about (they always outscore the opponent.) This isn't your regular team.
Also, what? Ingram's been coming off the bench all season until recently. |
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venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144432 Location: The Gold Coast
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Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 1:42 pm Post subject: |
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greenfrog wrote: | venturalakersfan wrote: | Actually the best player is almost always the most talented and the one with greater upside. And I can't think of one in the league that comes off the bench. |
What other bench regularly outscores its team's starters, which is what that "15 out of 20" line was about (they always outscore the opponent.) This isn't your regular team.
Also, what? Ingram's been coming off the bench all season until recently. |
And I wouldn't say Ingram is our best player either. I understand the concept of playing against other team's starters vs other team's bench players is a concept that is not understood here, for whatever reason. This team will be lucky to win 30 games this season, saying someone is the best on a team like that isn't saying much at all. But if it validates poster's fantasies and desires, then knock yourself out. Being the best swimmer on the Titanic isn't something to be proud of. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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greenfrog Retired Number
Joined: 02 Jan 2011 Posts: 36081 Location: 502 Bad Gateway
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Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 1:53 pm Post subject: |
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venturalakersfan wrote: | greenfrog wrote: | venturalakersfan wrote: | Actually the best player is almost always the most talented and the one with greater upside. And I can't think of one in the league that comes off the bench. |
What other bench regularly outscores its team's starters, which is what that "15 out of 20" line was about (they always outscore the opponent.) This isn't your regular team.
Also, what? Ingram's been coming off the bench all season until recently. |
And I wouldn't say Ingram is our best player either. I understand the concept of playing against other team's starters vs other team's bench players is a concept that is not understood here, for whatever reason. This team will be lucky to win 30 games this season, saying someone is the best on a team like that isn't saying much at all. But if it validates poster's fantasies and desires, then knock yourself out. Being the best swimmer on the Titanic isn't something to be proud of. |
Yeah, because benches all the time outscore their own starters, and the other team's bench in every single game except one... so pathetic.
Last edited by greenfrog on Sun Dec 04, 2016 2:19 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144432 Location: The Gold Coast
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Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 2:07 pm Post subject: |
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See, you get my point even if you fail to understand that. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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greenfrog Retired Number
Joined: 02 Jan 2011 Posts: 36081 Location: 502 Bad Gateway
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Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 2:10 pm Post subject: |
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Is this even real? |
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nash Star Player
Joined: 23 Oct 2001 Posts: 8194
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Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 4:27 pm Post subject: |
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venturalakersfan wrote: | I understand the concept of playing against other team's starters vs other team's bench players is a concept that is not understood here, for whatever reason. |
Are you aware that at our bench players use to finish a lot of games or at least play a great portion of the 4th quarter? We have a first and a second unit that Luke tries to preserve, but he finishes games with the hot hands of the day. |
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RI Laker Star Player
Joined: 27 Jun 2005 Posts: 7135
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Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 4:34 pm Post subject: |
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This team is unique as there CURRENTLY is no stud or star on the team. Our guys are just a bunch of grinders right now trying to find an identity while playing for a coach who is working with interchangeable parts.
The term starter and bench really does not apply this team. I understand the stereotype of "bench" players is misconstrued by some (specifically the amount of time playing against other team's bench players). Take a look at our "bench" players and when they play. It is not important who starts but who finishes the game (specifically a close game). There are some on our bench who are on the floor at crunch time for most of these games (Williams leading the pack and playing more crunch minutes than anyone on the team). Larry is also on the floor during many of these moments. I really do not think it is fair to pigeon hole these players because they do not start and falsely proclaim that the majority of their minutes are against another teams bench players.
This is why there is nothing wrong with anybody thinking Lou or Larry are the MVP's of the team. They have played well many games and have been key contributors in several wins. To say that they have a diminished value and can not be the MVP's because they are playing against other teams bench players does not cut the mustard and is inaccurate. |
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pio2u Retired Number
Joined: 26 Dec 2012 Posts: 54520
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Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 6:52 am Post subject: |
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Lakers' Nance knew his legs were healthy after monster dunk
Quote: | Nance, one of the NBA's highest and most exciting flyers, has learned patience. Most of the time, he doesn't have to seek these moments as they will often find him. He just needs to be in the right place at the right time and ready. When a shot goes up, for instance, Nance tracks its arc, then tries to position himself carefully among the rim's tall timbers so that he can snatch the ball if it ricochets. "Seven, eight times out of 10, I'm very certain of where it's coming off," he said. |
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/18191999/when-larry-nance-jr-got-springs-back |
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venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144432 Location: The Gold Coast
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Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 11:12 am Post subject: |
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nash wrote: | venturalakersfan wrote: | I understand the concept of playing against other team's starters vs other team's bench players is a concept that is not understood here, for whatever reason. |
Are you aware that at our bench players use to finish a lot of games or at least play a great portion of the 4th quarter? We have a first and a second unit that Luke tries to preserve, but he finishes games with the hot hands of the day. |
They do play in the 4th until the opponent puts their starters back in, then most are sent to the bench because any lead we might have diminishes. And some do finish, I have been very high last year and this year to finish games with JR and LN as our two bigs on the floor. Byron tried it a few times and when it worked, went away from it. Luke seems more interested in pursuing that pairing. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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pio2u Retired Number
Joined: 26 Dec 2012 Posts: 54520
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Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 11:28 am Post subject: |
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Larry Nance, Jr. ‘would love to’ be in the All-Star Slam Dunk Contest
#LetLarryLeap
Quote: | The Los Angeles Lakers probably wont have any All-Stars in New Orleans when the wildest weekend in basketball hits Louisiana in February, but Larry Nance, Jr. is ready to represent the purple and gold in the Big Easy given the chance. Nance, Jr. “would love to” participate in the dunk contest, he told Baxter Holmes of ESPN in an insightful article on the thunderous dunker’s road back from tearing his ACL during his junior year at Wyoming.
Nance, Jr. has already dunked 29 times this season, averaging 1.5 slams per game through the 20 contests he’s appeared in. He’s the Lakers’ go-to guy above the rim, but doesn’t just do his damage on alley-oops. Larry cuts when his defender is looking elsewhere, is a downright devastating trailer big barreling down the lane and is constantly looking for ways to get inside for easy buckets.
63 of Nance, Jr.’s 114 attempts have come from within the restricted area, where he’s shooting an astounding 81 percent. The man has a nose for the rim, and he unleashes the fury of two generations of dunkers every time he soars up. |
http://www.silverscreenandroll.com/2016/12/4/13840302/la-lakers-larry-nance-jr-all-star-slam-dunk-contest |
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MJST Retired Number
Joined: 06 Jul 2014 Posts: 26085
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Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 11:29 am Post subject: |
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Hoping he plays tonight. |
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justsomelakerfan Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Jul 2016 Posts: 10939
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Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 12:02 pm Post subject: |
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Im glad Larry sat during the road trip from hell. These games with major contributors out already are nearly impossible to win. I don't want to see anyone rushed back through December. Schedule still isn't easy. _________________ Austin Reaves
Tweeter: @sarah_dotbiz |
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RobinInHood Starting Rotation
Joined: 30 Sep 2016 Posts: 195 Location: Stockholm
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Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 2:14 pm Post subject: |
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Is he playing tonight? |
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pio2u Retired Number
Joined: 26 Dec 2012 Posts: 54520
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Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 3:02 pm Post subject: |
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SectorSevenG wrote: | Is he playing tonight? |
Game Time Decision |
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KindCrippler2000 Franchise Player
Joined: 02 May 2003 Posts: 15821
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Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 3:45 pm Post subject: |
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He needs to get healthy. As of now, he leads team in BPM, DBPM and is one of the 4 players who isn't a negative in OBPM. It seems they can't win ball games without him.
Lakers lost two winnable games when he was out -
Had no business losing to the 4-15 Mavs at home.
Had no business losing to a Grizzles team without 6 of their players. |
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nash Star Player
Joined: 23 Oct 2001 Posts: 8194
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Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 4:05 pm Post subject: |
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KindCrippler2000 wrote: |
Had no business losing to a Grizzles team without 6 of their players. |
That was a really close game. Getting back any of our core players should let us win games like that. |
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Worthy42 Franchise Player
Joined: 03 Aug 2004 Posts: 19952
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Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 7:09 pm Post subject: |
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venturalakersfan wrote: | Being the best swimmer on the Titanic isn't something to be proud of. |
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nash Star Player
Joined: 23 Oct 2001 Posts: 8194
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Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 9:41 pm Post subject: |
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Worthy42 wrote: | venturalakersfan wrote: | Being the best swimmer on the Titanic isn't something to be proud of. |
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So true |
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venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144432 Location: The Gold Coast
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Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 10:02 pm Post subject: |
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I bet he wanted to be out there, better to let him heal. His "pose" when Randle put that one back in the 4th was fantastic. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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