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kikanga
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Joined: 15 Sep 2012
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Location: La La Land
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 Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2016 6:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Judah wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | | Judah wrote: |
Yup. Only a complete dupe would fail to recognize that rookies usually don't get better after their first year in the league. If they struggle that first year, better pack those bags and hit the bricks! 
What an odd statement. That kind of language should be preserved for at least 2 years, not one. Let Brown actually have a legit shot with a real coaching staff and in a real offense. His defense is good enough to earn at least one more year with a legit chance to get minutes and hit his shots. And please save the 'but he sucked in SL!' stuff. It's....SL. |
Not all 2nd year players are the same. He's 23.
And he can't hit a shot against SUMMER LEAGUE competition. What position in our rotation do you see him playing moving forward?
Backup 2 over Lou? Backup 3 over Ingram? Are we gonna go small ball and run Nance and Randle at the 5, kick Zubac and black out of the rotation, so Brown can get some playing time?
Or you can just ignore my rational questions and keep banging your head. That works for me too.  |
"Not all second year players are the same."
-Well, duh. Except you don't know for sure what you have in that second year player if you haven't seen him play in his second year yet, do you? You're just assuming that he'll basically be the same player a year from now. I'm not making any predictions on how I think he'll play, and that's the whole point. I'd rather see him actually get to play a full year in a coherent offense and with a solid coaching staff that can cultivate his skills. If he doesn't show any meaningful improvement, fine. Let him go. But what do the Lakers have to lose by giving him a full year with a better opportunity? Nothing. The sky isn't gonna fall.
"And he can't hit a shot against SUMMER LEAGUE competition."
-lol.....umm, Summer League was how many games again? Five? Somehow, you know that he's maxed out on his potential after one season of radically inconsistent minutes and a five game stretch in SL? Forget the competition. Brown isn't even a one on one player. He's catch and shoot. It's obvious that he plays anxiously whenever he tries to do anything beyond basic things like catching and shooting, catching and pump faking to create space against his defender, etc. But anxiousness is something that can be overcome. And considering Luke's personality and the kind of staff he has in place, I have a difficult time not seeing his anxiousness begin to gradually disintegrate. One season of inconsistent minutes and a five game stretch in SL doesn't guarantee where he'll be as a player a year from now.
"What position in our rotation do you see him playing moving forward?
Backup 2 over Lou? Backup 3 over Ingram?"
- Obviously, he can be plugged in at either position. I'm not vouching for him to be a rotation player. Where he fits in the rotation and how many minutes he gets will be ironed out by Luke and the staff. But it's not like any of us have the foresight to know what the rotation will look like. Between injuries, foul trouble, and mid-season roster moves, a host of things can happen that'll open up opportunities for players to receive more PT over the course of the season. It's a long season. You do realize it's 82 games instead of 5 like SL, right? Perhaps you forgot that. Kinda hard to tell with all the dramatic statements.
It's nonsense to say 'Well, the ____________ position is already pretty loaded, so _______ is useless.' Not every player on a roster gets consistent rotation minutes. Again, those things can fluctuate depending on the circumstances.
So much for those "rational" questions. More like basic, presumptive questions that were weakly designed to fit a biased, over-dramatic narrative. Nice try though. |
We just saw Brown play a couple weeks ago. I haven't seen much improvement since the summer league from a year before.
I think I'm making the safer assumption out of the 2 of us. Because I'm expecting him to be the same player he's shown to be to this point. He can improve, and still be a bad rotational player. That is the low, low depths he is coming from.
If you think he'll take a giant leap from bad Summer League player to positive role player in the NBA, cool. I just haven't seen much past evidence from him to make me think that's possible.
I can tell you like Brown. And I'm sorry for throwing a wet blanket over your fandom. I hope you're right, since if he improves that's good for our organization.
But he's supposed to be a 3 and D player, and he shoots 31% from the field and 29% from 3. And *67% of his FGAs he was OPEN! I hope you can at least see where I'm coming from when you look at his stats. Even his per36 numbers are disappointing. He doesn't just need to improve a little to become a + rotational player. He needs to improve ALOT.
There are alot of players that are younger than him that have been drafted the past 2 years that are further along in their development. So I think he's behind schedule if he's trying to develop into an NBA (not D-league) contributor. Guys who play years and years in college are generally more NBA-ready then their younger draft peers. With Brown that's not the case.
I can understand why some people are high on Brown despite his stats. He has the physical tools to be a solid 3 and D player. It's just his play on the court hasn't shown me enough glimpses of his potential. I'd rather take my chances on a different 3 and D player in the upcoming draft. Someone who can hit wide open shots even if he's anxious.
* link to stat: http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/1626148/tracking/shots/
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Last edited by kikanga on Mon Aug 01, 2016 6:35 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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fontana3d
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Joined: 22 Mar 2013
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| Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2016 6:33 pm Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | | Judah wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | | Judah wrote: |
Yup. Only a complete dupe would fail to recognize that rookies usually don't get better after their first year in the league. If they struggle that first year, better pack those bags and hit the bricks!
What an odd statement. That kind of language should be preserved for at least 2 years, not one. Let Brown actually have a legit shot with a real coaching staff and in a real offense. His defense is good enough to earn at least one more year with a legit chance to get minutes and hit his shots. And please save the 'but he sucked in SL!' stuff. It's....SL. |
Not all 2nd year players are the same. He's 23.
And he can't hit a shot against SUMMER LEAGUE competition. What position in our rotation do you see him playing moving forward?
Backup 2 over Lou? Backup 3 over Ingram? Are we gonna go small ball and run Nance and Randle at the 5, kick Zubac and black out of the rotation, so Brown can get some playing time?
Or you can just ignore my rational questions and keep banging your head. That works for me too. |
"Not all second year players are the same."
-Well, duh. Except you don't know for sure what you have in that second year player if you haven't seen him play in his second year yet, do you? You're just assuming that he'll basically be the same player a year from now. I'm not making any predictions on how I think he'll play, and that's the whole point. I'd rather see him actually get to play a full year in a coherent offense and with a solid coaching staff that can cultivate his skills. If he doesn't show any meaningful improvement, fine. Let him go. But what do the Lakers have to lose by giving him a full year with a better opportunity? Nothing. The sky isn't gonna fall.
"And he can't hit a shot against SUMMER LEAGUE competition."
-lol.....umm, Summer League was how many games again? Five? Somehow, you know that he's maxed out on his potential after one season of radically inconsistent minutes and a five game stretch in SL? Forget the competition. Brown isn't even a one on one player. He's catch and shoot. It's obvious that he plays anxiously whenever he tries to do anything beyond basic things like catching and shooting, catching and pump faking to create space against his defender, etc. But anxiousness is something that can be overcome. And considering Luke's personality and the kind of staff he has in place, I have a difficult time not seeing his anxiousness begin to gradually disintegrate. One season of inconsistent minutes and a five game stretch in SL doesn't guarantee where he'll be as a player a year from now.
"What position in our rotation do you see him playing moving forward?
Backup 2 over Lou? Backup 3 over Ingram?"
- Obviously, he can be plugged in at either position. I'm not vouching for him to be a rotation player. Where he fits in the rotation and how many minutes he gets will be ironed out by Luke and the staff. But it's not like any of us have the foresight to know what the rotation will look like. Between injuries, foul trouble, and mid-season roster moves, a host of things can happen that'll open up opportunities for players to receive more PT over the course of the season. It's a long season. You do realize it's 82 games instead of 5 like SL, right? Perhaps you forgot that. Kinda hard to tell with all the dramatic statements.
It's nonsense to say 'Well, the ____________ position is already pretty loaded, so _______ is useless.' Not every player on a roster gets consistent rotation minutes. Again, those things can fluctuate depending on the circumstances.
So much for those "rational" questions. More like basic, presumptive questions that were weakly designed to fit a biased, over-dramatic narrative. Nice try though. |
We just saw Brown play a couple weeks ago. I haven't seen much improvement since the summer league from a year before.
I think I'm making the safer assumption out of the 2 of us. Because I'm expecting him to be the same player he's shown to be to this point. He can improve, and still be a bad rotational player. That is the low, low depths he is coming from.
If you think he'll take a giant leap from bad Summer League player to positive role player in the NBA, cool. I just haven't seen much past evidence from him to make me think that's possible.
I can tell you like Brown. And I'm sorry for throwing a wet blanket over your fandom. I hope you're right, since if he improves that's good for our organization.
But he's supposed to be a 3 and D player, and he shoots 31% from the field and 29% from 3. I hope you can at least see where I'm coming from when you look at his stats. Even his per36 numbers are disappointing. He doesn't just need to improve a little to be come a rotational player. He needs to improve ALOT.
There are alot of players that are younger than him that have been drafted the past 2 years that are further along in their development. So I think he's behind schedule if he's trying to develop into an NBA (not D-league) contributor. Guys who play years and years in college are generally more NBA-ready then their younger draft peers. With Brown that's not the case.
I can understand why some people are high on Brown despite his stats. He has the physical tools to be a solid 3 and D player. It's just his play on the court hasn't shown me enough glimpses of his potential. I'd rather take my chances on a different 3 and D player in the upcoming draft. Someone who can hit wide open shots even if he's anxious. |
The problem is that we might not keep all our draft picks next year thanks a lot Steve Nash, and Dwight Howard. |
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kikanga
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| Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2016 6:36 pm Post subject: |
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| fontana3d wrote: |
The problem is that we might not keep all our draft picks next year thanks a lot Steve Nash, and Dwight Howard. |
We can always buy a late round draft pick.
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fontana3d
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| Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2016 6:43 pm Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | | fontana3d wrote: |
The problem is that we might not keep all our draft picks next year thanks a lot Steve Nash, and Dwight Howard. |
We can always buy a late round draft pick. |
Or try and trade Lou to get one. |
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Rivershow
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| Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2016 6:46 pm Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | | fontana3d wrote: |
The problem is that we might not keep all our draft picks next year thanks a lot Steve Nash, and Dwight Howard. |
We can always buy a late round draft pick. |
Didn't we try that just this draft and it didn't happen? I don't think it's that easy to aquire draft picks and probably 2x for the Lakers and with their drafting success. |
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kikanga
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| Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2016 6:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Rivershow wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | | fontana3d wrote: |
The problem is that we might not keep all our draft picks next year thanks a lot Steve Nash, and Dwight Howard. |
We can always buy a late round draft pick. |
Didn't we try that just this draft and it didn't happen? I don't think it's that easy to aquire draft picks and probably 2x for the Lakers and with their drafting success. |
Cavs and Warriors bought draft picks this year.
LINK
And it's not like teams around the league are eager to do those 2 teams any favors.
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"Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better” |
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tox
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Joined: 16 Nov 2015
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| Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2016 10:08 pm Post subject: |
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| greenfrog wrote: | | tox wrote: | I also agree I'd like to see how Anthony Brown performs after getting coached by guys who will actually help his confidence instead of questioning his manhood.
He was terrible shooting it in summer league, yes, but he hasn't had that much time being coached by actual coaches.
It's also worth noting, IIRC, he shot 35% from 3 when he came off the bench. Not great but passable. I do think Byron starting him randomly (bleep) his rhythm up, as he's a confidence shooter.
I just don't see why you dump the guy yet. I was frustrated over SPL as well but he's exactly the kind of player we want to pan out. He seems a high candidate for being a Danny Green type late bloomer IMO. |
I wouldn't dump him unless there was someone on the preseason roster who really stood out (Zach Auguste, perhaps), or they want another parental vet around. What I wouldn't do either though is rely on him to provide quality backup minutes as your only 3 after Ingram (assuming Deng gets significant time at 4 would this only be a concern).
http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/carmelo/anthony-brown/
They have him as basically average defensively as well. |
Thanks for the link. At the end of the day, and as I stated before, CARMELO (a box score-derived stat) has the same disadvantages rating Brown, as it's based on BPM and other box score numbers. I'll argue a non-box score-derived rating such as RAPM will give you a closer prediction.
We'll find out how good he is defensively in a real system; like I said, I think playing for Byron really (bleep) up his defensive numbers.
I agree with you overall on how to use Brown, though. |
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PICKnPOP
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| Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2016 10:17 pm Post subject: |
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I'm not really a stats guy so I don't judge him by the numbers, so when I look at brown I see a lot of potential as a 3&D guy. His defense has even looked improved from what I saw in the summer league. His issue is that is shot is just really inconsistent so it's tough to keep him on the floor at the moment. I think that during the season he will have less ball handling responsibilities than he did in the summer and hopefully that will allow him to save some energy for wide open 3's.
It's not easy to play as aggressively on the defensive end as he does and also have enough left in the tank to knock down shots. IMO brown would be fine coming off the bench for 10-15 mpg as a defensive specialist. We need his skillset more than we need Lou Williams IMO. |
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LeftCoast7
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| Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2016 9:40 am Post subject: |
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| PICKnPOP wrote: | I'm not really a stats guy so I don't judge him by the numbers, so when I look at brown I see a lot of potential as a 3&D guy. His defense has even looked improved from what I saw in the summer league. His issue is that is shot is just really inconsistent so it's tough to keep him on the floor at the moment. I think that during the season he will have less ball handling responsibilities than he did in the summer and hopefully that will allow him to save some energy for wide open 3's.
It's not easy to play as aggressively on the defensive end as he does and also have enough left in the tank to knock down shots. IMO brown would be fine coming off the bench for 10-15 mpg as a defensive specialist. We need his skillset more than we need Lou Williams IMO. |
Definitely agree, he will not be ball handling in the regular season at the rate he did in the SL. That should help with his turnovers and out of control drives and he can just 110 on the defensive end while hitting some corner 3s and call it a day. |
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PICKnPOP
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| Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2016 7:18 pm Post subject: |
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| LeftCoast7 wrote: | | PICKnPOP wrote: | I'm not really a stats guy so I don't judge him by the numbers, so when I look at brown I see a lot of potential as a 3&D guy. His defense has even looked improved from what I saw in the summer league. His issue is that is shot is just really inconsistent so it's tough to keep him on the floor at the moment. I think that during the season he will have less ball handling responsibilities than he did in the summer and hopefully that will allow him to save some energy for wide open 3's.
It's not easy to play as aggressively on the defensive end as he does and also have enough left in the tank to knock down shots. IMO brown would be fine coming off the bench for 10-15 mpg as a defensive specialist. We need his skillset more than we need Lou Williams IMO. |
Definitely agree, he will not be ball handling in the regular season at the rate he did in the SL. That should help with his turnovers and out of control drives and he can just 110 on the defensive end while hitting some corner 3s and call it a day. |
Yup, that's all he needs to do to make a career out of basketball. I think it's nice that he can handle he ball a little and facilitate but that's not where he's going To make a living. He should stick to his strengths because they are exactly what this young core needs. |
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True Lakers Fan
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Location: Texas
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| Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2016 8:25 am Post subject: |
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At best I want AB to be like Alvin Roberson, and I think he can be.
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pio2u
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| Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 4:40 am Post subject: |
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2016-17 Season Is Make or Break for Anthony Brown
| Quote: | | If new head coach Luke Walton can successfully implement his offensive strategy, Brown should have no excuses to not live up to his potential. If he is unable to add any sort of value, this could be the last year we see Anthony Brown don the Purple and Gold. |
http://lakeshowlife.com/2016/08/14/lakers-anthony-brown-2016-17-season-make-or-break-for-sophomore-guard/ |
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governator
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| Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 6:59 am Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | | Rivershow wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | | fontana3d wrote: |
The problem is that we might not keep all our draft picks next year thanks a lot Steve Nash, and Dwight Howard. |
We can always buy a late round draft pick. |
Didn't we try that just this draft and it didn't happen? I don't think it's that easy to aquire draft picks and probably 2x for the Lakers and with their drafting success. |
Cavs and Warriors bought draft picks this year.
LINK
And it's not like teams around the league are eager to do those 2 teams any favors. |
didn't we also got picks from calderon? |
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Four Decade Bandwagon
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Joined: 18 Jul 2014
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| Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 7:58 am Post subject: |
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| True Lakers Fan wrote: | | At best I want AB to be like Alvin Roberson, and I think he can be. |
Or Sefolosha. Both shot near or below 30% from 3pt range in their early years in the league. Actually Artest did too.
Yet all found a role playing stellar defense.
Not expecting Brown to be more then an improved bench player. Focus on 10-15mins per night of lockdown defense and hit a couple of open shots at a respectable rate of the low 30s even. |
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Dr. Funkbot
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| Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 9:51 am Post subject: |
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AB is our best wing defender. He is really quite good and just getting started. Ingram will be better in time, but we need all the defenders we can get on this squad.
As far as his shot, it is clearly mental at this point.. I mean, you don't go from being a 40% plus shooter over 4 years in college to not being even able to hit the rim.
I wonder if the Lakers or his agent has had him meet with a sports psychologist? Byron screwed him in the head and now he needs to get right mentally. He just needs to relax and let it fly.
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Inspector Gadget
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| Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 9:53 am Post subject: |
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| Dr. Funkbot wrote: | AB is our best wing defender. He is really quite good and just getting started. Ingram will be better in time, but we need all the defenders we can get on this squad.
As far as his shot, it is clearly mental at this point.. I mean, you don't go from being a 40% plus shooter over 4 years in college to not being even able to hit the rim.
I wonder if the Lakers or his agent has had him meet with a sports psychologist? Byron screwed him in the head and now he needs to get right mentally. He just needs to relax and let it fly. |
We need him to develop into the Thabo Selfolosha role. |
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epak
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| Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 10:13 am Post subject: |
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| Roberson's defense was awesome in the playoffs. If AB can be like him, that would be amazing. But I don't think ABs feet are quick enough. |
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Inspector Gadget
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| Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 10:20 am Post subject: |
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| epak wrote: | | Roberson's defense was awesome in the playoffs. If AB can be like him, that would be amazing. But I don't think ABs feet are quick enough. |
Or Bruce Bowen. |
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tox
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| Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 12:18 pm Post subject: |
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| epak wrote: | | Roberson's defense was awesome in the playoffs. If AB can be like him, that would be amazing. But I don't think ABs feet are quick enough. |
Yeah. AB is a good defender, maybe very good, but he's not good enough to justify his offense.
He's going to need to get a jump shot because I don't think he'll ever be in that elite class of defenders. |
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The Logo
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Location: Salem, OR
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| Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 12:39 pm Post subject: |
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| tox wrote: | | epak wrote: | | Roberson's defense was awesome in the playoffs. If AB can be like him, that would be amazing. But I don't think ABs feet are quick enough. |
Yeah. AB is a good defender, maybe very good, but he's not good enough to justify his offense.
He's going to need to get a jump shot because I don't think he'll ever be in that elite class of defenders. |
While AB is a good defender, Roberson out classes him due to his athleticism, which surprised me a lot in the playoffs last year. |
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greenfrog
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| Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 1:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Dr. Funkbot wrote: | AB is our best wing defender. He is really quite good and just getting started. Ingram will be better in time, but we need all the defenders we can get on this squad.
As far as his shot, it is clearly mental at this point.. I mean, you don't go from being a 40% plus shooter over 4 years in college to not being even able to hit the rim.
I wonder if the Lakers or his agent has had him meet with a sports psychologist? Byron screwed him in the head and now he needs to get right mentally. He just needs to relax and let it fly. |
This is the skinniest kid in fat camp analogy at its finest. I don't think it will take much for Ingram to claim that title.
Actually it's for second best. We forgot Deng. |
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Laker's Fan
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| Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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Three-and-D Wings are among the scarcest commodities in the league while also being among the most important in implementing effective 'positionless' offensive and defensive strategies.
Brown has been a disappointment and might not amount to anything. But LA will continue to develop him.
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Austin Reaves keeps his game tight, like Kobe Bryant on game night. |
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PICKnPOP
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Joined: 14 Jul 2014
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| Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 4:13 pm Post subject: |
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Idk why but Browns jumper doesn't really concern me. Some players need to know that they are getting minutes so they can relax and play without the stress on wondering if they will get pulled for messing up. He was also a redshirt player in college so that lets us know he may be a late bloomer.
It may just take him a little longer to put it all togther than most people but who cares. He's cheap, high character and low maintenance. Not to mention that were nowhere close to competing right now so we have time for him to develop at the end of the bench lol. We have Russell, Clarkson and Ingram ready to contribute right away.
Kid will be fine.
Btw I think he has he chance to be elite as a defender. He looks the part of a top level 3 & D guy IMO. All he needs is NBA experience so he can learn what he can get away with and other tricks of the trade. From what I saw in Summer league he's got "it" defensively. |
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epak
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| Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 4:26 pm Post subject: |
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| I hate Bruce Bowen. I have no respect for guys that walk under someone taking a jump shot. That punk took the term "breaking ankles" too literal. |
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PICKnPOP
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Joined: 14 Jul 2014
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| Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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| epak wrote: | | I hate Bruce Bowen. I have no respect for guys that walk under someone taking a jump shot. That punk took the term "breaking ankles" too literal. |
Lol I like anyone who makes a name for themselves in the NBA without having to put up 20 shots a game. Idk why but it always impresses me to see a guy like Bowen, Rodman, and more recently Larry nance. Even if he didn't take 1 shot in a game you would know he's on the court and his impact would be felt.
Those are winners. Championship pieces. |
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