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RMurphy_22 Star Player
Joined: 27 May 2005 Posts: 4193
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Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2015 9:29 pm Post subject: |
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I'm sure their are red flags Mitch has seen, let's not overreact....yet _________________ Back to Back Yeah, Yeah...and you know that!
- Magic |
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A Mad Chinaman Star Player
Joined: 07 Apr 2005 Posts: 6138
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Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2015 9:47 pm Post subject: |
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kobe_luver wrote: | A Mad Chinaman wrote: | kobe_luver wrote: | lakersboy wrote: | I wonder if his not being signed has anything to do with the allegation by the so called poster/fan who said he recently smoked weed with Upshaw and another guy. Maybe it got back to Lakers staff and the questions and testing began. | I said I was worried about that since last Wednesday in the Official Upshaw Thread and several others agreed with my being concerned.
It was right at that time they suddenly applied the brakes by limiting his play time and not signing him in a few days as reported. They suddenly went from real hot to sign him after his 1st SL game to nothing but a meeting with Mitch Thursday.....and still no signing!
If true....it is a travesty that an unproven post could hurt Upshaw and the Lakers like this. | There might be other factors involved.
Maybe Upshaw's agent want more guaranteed money?
They would be very thin at the 5 if Upshaw is not on the roster. Hubert and Black (undersized center) would be the only options unless they are serious about having Randle play the 5 in Scott version of Small Ball. | But if the bolded were the case, you'd think his agent would be putting it out there that Upshaw is still available. | What would be the best options for all parties to potentially balance Mitch's recognition that Upshaw will not be able to help much this year versus his agent wanting more guaranteed money?
Seems as if Mitch has to find out how to not be handicapped the team with a roster spot to Upshaw - to developed him.
Can RKelly and Sacre be helpful to the team?
Would Upshaw be better use of a roster spot?
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This puts a player like Robert Upshaw's future with the team in the air. The Lakers already have frontcourt roster spots tied to Hibbert, Robert Sacre and Tarik Black at center, with Larry Nance Jr. also taking up a frontcourt contract. Ryan Kelly is another player linger from the last few seasons. The team was rumored to be shopping some of their excess rotation players for salary space but didn't strike any deals outside of the Hibbert trade. Now, even though several of these contracts are minimum-level, they're tying up valuable roster space as they try to add new talent to the roster.
Here's what Kupchak had to say about Upshaw going forward, via Lakers.com:
It's unlikely that Robert will contribute to the team next year to win games. I think you know Robert and how he's bounced around at the college level. He's a player that we looked at in Summer League, and we're continuing to have conversations with his representative. If we did something with Robert, it would be based on potential going forward.. ... We've made commitments to some rookies because they got drafted very high. But to look at a guy that wasn't drafted and say, "This is a guy that's gonna be in the rotation." That's not realistic at all.
http://www.silverscreenandroll.com/2015/7/22/9017155/la-lakers-free-agency-robert-upshaw-guard |
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LA_Lakers_Rule Franchise Player
Joined: 23 Aug 2004 Posts: 19482 Location: The X-Files
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Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2015 9:59 pm Post subject: |
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PROPHET wrote: | Is he even signed yet? Officially. |
It would appear so.... based on multiple reports.....
Quote: | Saturday July 18, Lakers sign Upshaw - LINK: The Lakers have reached an agreement with center Robert Upshaw on a free agent contract... The pact is for two years and includes a partial guarantee for the first season... |
Besides the link provided above which lists him as signed to a 2 year deal, we have many other web sites saying the same thing, here are just a couple more examples of many:
Lakers News: Team Signs Robert Upshaw to Two Year Deal Quote: | The Lakers wasted no time and signed Upshaw after his first Summer League game with the Lakers. |
Upshaw signs 2 year deal with Lakers
Quote: |
Chris Haynes of Cleveland.com first reported Upshaw's deal. The deal has a partial guarantee for year one and year two is not guaranteed. |
_________________ Rule = win titles
Good judgment comes from experience and a lot of that comes from bad judgment. - Will Rogers ... |
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Vin Star Player
Joined: 03 Jan 2013 Posts: 6005 Location: France
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Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2015 10:02 pm Post subject: |
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22 wrote: | pio2u wrote: | Jbar805 wrote: | One thing is for sure......He is better than Sacre right now as is. |
BINGO!! |
absolutely |
I don't know, Sacre's bench celebrations are pretty good. |
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Eindhoven Star Player
Joined: 14 Jul 2015 Posts: 1930 Location: Zürich
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Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2015 10:46 pm Post subject: |
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It's interesting that Mitch doesn't mention Sacre, who is 7'0 as well. I believe what's holding the signature between the Lakers and Upshaw has something to do with salary cap and roster space.
Quote: | Q: On the team’s size:
Kupchak: Same thing. We’re not a big team. We have Roy, clearly who’s big. Then we have Robert (Upshaw), who’s 7-foot, and our next-tallest player is Ryan Kelly, who really at 6’10” or 6’11” is a stretch four. You wouldn’t expect him to block shots and get 15 rebounds and patrol the paint. So really, if you look at our team, you can make an argument that we don’t have big players.
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A Mad Chinaman Star Player
Joined: 07 Apr 2005 Posts: 6138
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Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2015 10:48 pm Post subject: |
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LAKERMIKE2 wrote: | He'll be lucky to see minutes at center, he has a long way to go. He missed a lot of playing time & is currently a step slow & light for NBA game. I believe Sacre still holds the back up spot until something changes.
Upshaw needs to work a lot more in the weight room & on the court, I just hope he can do it within the next two years? He just seems a bit timid right now, needs to play but since were on rebuild mode perhaps Scott will give him minutes? Right now he reminds me of our old draft pick Earl Jones with a ceiling of Elden Campbell... | He is raw and needs a lot of PT in the D League |
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BennyLava Star Player
Joined: 14 Dec 2012 Posts: 3582
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Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2015 10:49 pm Post subject: |
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Eindhoven wrote: | It's interesting that Mitch doesn't mention Sacre, who is 7'0 as well. I believe what's holding the signature between the Lakers and Upshaw has something to do with salary cap and roster space.
Quote: | Q: On the team’s size:
Kupchak: Same thing. We’re not a big team. We have Roy, clearly who’s big. Then we have Robert (Upshaw), who’s 7-foot, and our next-tallest player is Ryan Kelly, who really at 6’10” or 6’11” is a stretch four. You wouldn’t expect him to block shots and get 15 rebounds and patrol the paint. So really, if you look at our team, you can make an argument that we don’t have big players.
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He could be referring to Robert Sacre as well in this case. |
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Eindhoven Star Player
Joined: 14 Jul 2015 Posts: 1930 Location: Zürich
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Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2015 11:04 pm Post subject: |
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BennyLava wrote: | Eindhoven wrote: | It's interesting that Mitch doesn't mention Sacre, who is 7'0 as well. I believe what's holding the signature between the Lakers and Upshaw has something to do with salary cap and roster space.
Quote: | Q: On the team’s size:
Kupchak: Same thing. We’re not a big team. We have Roy, clearly who’s big. Then we have Robert (Upshaw), who’s 7-foot, and our next-tallest player is Ryan Kelly, who really at 6’10” or 6’11” is a stretch four. You wouldn’t expect him to block shots and get 15 rebounds and patrol the paint. So really, if you look at our team, you can make an argument that we don’t have big players.
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He could be referring to Robert Sacre as well in this case. |
Considering the transcript comes from Lakers.com, I don't know if they would switch Roberts. I mean, by now someone would have noticed. |
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dood23 Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Jun 2010 Posts: 12084
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Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2015 11:55 pm Post subject: |
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BennyLava wrote: | Eindhoven wrote: | It's interesting that Mitch doesn't mention Sacre, who is 7'0 as well. I believe what's holding the signature between the Lakers and Upshaw has something to do with salary cap and roster space.
Quote: | Q: On the team’s size:
Kupchak: Same thing. We’re not a big team. We have Roy, clearly who’s big. Then we have Robert (Upshaw), who’s 7-foot, and our next-tallest player is Ryan Kelly, who really at 6’10” or 6’11” is a stretch four. You wouldn’t expect him to block shots and get 15 rebounds and patrol the paint. So really, if you look at our team, you can make an argument that we don’t have big players.
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He could be referring to Robert Sacre as well in this case. |
There's a 99% chance it actually means Sacre. We all like Upshaw but Sacre is actually the second longest tenured Laker on the roster right now _________________ "There's only 2 dudes better than me, and I'm BOTH OF THEM." |
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Afrosho Starting Rotation
Joined: 04 Mar 2014 Posts: 665
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Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2015 11:57 pm Post subject: |
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Eindhoven wrote: | It's interesting that Mitch doesn't mention Sacre, who is 7'0 as well. I believe what's holding the signature between the Lakers and Upshaw has something to do with salary cap and roster space.
Quote: | Q: On the team’s size:
Kupchak: Same thing. We’re not a big team. We have Roy, clearly who’s big. Then we have Robert (Upshaw), who’s 7-foot, and our next-tallest player is Ryan Kelly, who really at 6’10” or 6’11” is a stretch four. You wouldn’t expect him to block shots and get 15 rebounds and patrol the paint. So really, if you look at our team, you can make an argument that we don’t have big players.
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Well, maybe he was mentionning Sacre. The reporter assumed Mitch was talking about Upshaw but I'm not sure about that. |
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22 Franchise Player
Joined: 05 Apr 2013 Posts: 17063
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Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 12:01 am Post subject: |
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Daaaangit I'm bout to throw an Arthur Spooner style fit if Mitch and Jim don't sign this kid. THERE IS LITERALLY ZERO RISK. If he doesn't work out due to drugs/can't play/ etc you only lose 1 spot for a year. Heck give him 2 guaranteed years if need be. It's for the min for crying out loud. |
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kobe_luver Franchise Player
Joined: 08 Feb 2008 Posts: 11644 Location: LA
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Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 12:22 am Post subject: |
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DrumR wrote: | I feel like Mitch told him make it through the summer to camp without incident. Come in and be in shape. Show us you can do these things and we'll take the next step of a contract together. You can't give everything to Upshaw right away. Making him earn it will help him learn consistency and grow as a person. |
What do you think the partial guaranteed $$ for the 1st year and non guarantee $$ for the 2nd year was for? If they're doing what you are saying they are playing with fire as he can sign anywhere else all summer. It's not like we're making him such a great offer or even promising him playing time. |
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AshesToAshes Star Player
Joined: 20 Jun 2009 Posts: 4837
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Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 12:23 am Post subject: |
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Maybe there was an agreement to urine tests for a period of time after which they sign or he goes elsewhere.
who knows. It's mitch... _________________ KOBE!!! |
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kobe_luver Franchise Player
Joined: 08 Feb 2008 Posts: 11644 Location: LA
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Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 12:29 am Post subject: |
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Afrosho wrote: | Eindhoven wrote: | It's interesting that Mitch doesn't mention Sacre, who is 7'0 as well. I believe what's holding the signature between the Lakers and Upshaw has something to do with salary cap and roster space.
Quote: | Q: On the team’s size:
Kupchak: Same thing. We’re not a big team. We have Roy, clearly who’s big. Then we have Robert (Upshaw), who’s 7-foot, and our next-tallest player is Ryan Kelly, who really at 6’10” or 6’11” is a stretch four. You wouldn’t expect him to block shots and get 15 rebounds and patrol the paint. So really, if you look at our team, you can make an argument that we don’t have big players.
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Well, maybe he was mentioning Sacre. The reporter assumed Mitch was talking about Upshaw but I'm not sure about that. |
I thought that was confusing why Mitch said we have Upshaw when in the next breath he said we didn't.
Now it makes sense....you're right!! The reporter thought he meant Upshaw when Mitch said Robert (added it in parenthesis as he never actually said Upshaw) , but he meant Sacre. |
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kobe_luver Franchise Player
Joined: 08 Feb 2008 Posts: 11644 Location: LA
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Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 12:33 am Post subject: |
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What is the darn big risk signing him now???
If he falls back into bad stuff let him go. High reward for small risk!! |
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kobe_luver Franchise Player
Joined: 08 Feb 2008 Posts: 11644 Location: LA
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Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 12:35 am Post subject: |
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LA_Lakers_Rule wrote: | PROPHET wrote: | Is he even signed yet? Officially. |
It would appear so.... based on multiple reports.....
Quote: | Saturday July 18, Lakers sign Upshaw - LINK: The Lakers have reached an agreement with center Robert Upshaw on a free agent contract... The pact is for two years and includes a partial guarantee for the first season... |
Besides the link provided above which lists him as signed to a 2 year deal, we have many other web sites saying the same thing, here are just a couple more examples of many:
Lakers News: Team Signs Robert Upshaw to Two Year Deal Quote: | The Lakers wasted no time and signed Upshaw after his first Summer League game with the Lakers. |
Upshaw signs 2 year deal with Lakers
Quote: |
Chris Haynes of Cleveland.com first reported Upshaw's deal. The deal has a partial guarantee for year one and year two is not guaranteed. |
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Reporters assumed he was signed but only an agreement was made...which seems in question now!! |
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Chronicle Retired Number
Joined: 21 Jul 2012 Posts: 31935 Location: Manhattan
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Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 12:42 am Post subject: |
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Eindhoven wrote: | It's interesting that Mitch doesn't mention Sacre, who is 7'0 as well. I believe what's holding the signature between the Lakers and Upshaw has something to do with salary cap and roster space.
Quote: | Q: On the team’s size:
Kupchak: Same thing. We’re not a big team. We have Roy, clearly who’s big. Then we have Robert (Upshaw), who’s 7-foot, and our next-tallest player is Ryan Kelly, who really at 6’10” or 6’11” is a stretch four. You wouldn’t expect him to block shots and get 15 rebounds and patrol the paint. So really, if you look at our team, you can make an argument that we don’t have big players.
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I think what Mitch means is that Ryan Kelly is the next longest player, which is true.
Ryan Kelly is longer than Sacre. Much longer. Really long arms. Really good standing reach.
Sacre is 7 foot tall but doesn't have the longest arms _________________ Kobe |
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Vin Star Player
Joined: 03 Jan 2013 Posts: 6005 Location: France
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Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 1:15 am Post subject: |
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Sacre sucks big time and has 0 potential but he's in game shape and serviceable. I really like what I've seen from Upshaw but the guy is nowhere near ready physically or fondamentally. |
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A Mad Chinaman Star Player
Joined: 07 Apr 2005 Posts: 6138
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Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 2:35 am Post subject: |
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kobe_luver wrote: | LA_Lakers_Rule wrote: | PROPHET wrote: | Is he even signed yet? Officially. | It would appear so.... based on multiple reports..... Quote: | Saturday July 18, Lakers sign Upshaw - LINK: The Lakers have reached an agreement with center Robert Upshaw on a free agent contract... The pact is for two years and includes a partial guarantee for the first season... | Besides the link provided above which lists him as signed to a 2 year deal, we have many other web sites saying the same thing, here are just a couple more examples of many:
Lakers News: Team Signs Robert Upshaw to Two Year Deal Quote: | The Lakers wasted no time and signed Upshaw after his first Summer League game with the Lakers. |
Upshaw signs 2 year deal with Lakers
Quote: | Chris Haynes of Cleveland.com first reported Upshaw's deal. The deal has a partial guarantee for year one and year two is not guaranteed. |
| Reporters assumed he was signed but only an agreement was made...which seems in question now!! | Maybe it is a timing thing since it appears that he is invited to training camp in Hawaii
Maybe Mitch and BScott wants to see Upshaw competes against Hibbert, Sacre and Black since the coaches love competition to decide who's on the roster
If RKelly doesn't have his shooting stroke, he is of little use to the Lakers |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 5:15 am Post subject: |
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I still don't understand why people think it's the Lakers that are holding this up. We have no idea. My educated guess remains that Upshaw is looking for better offers elsewhere and has had a change of heart on the verbal agreement reached during SPL. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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Laker_Town Retired Number
Joined: 26 Jun 2006 Posts: 25604
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Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 6:24 am Post subject: |
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perhaps the agreement on the contract is that he prove himself during a period of time. Perhaps both he and the organization agreed on demonstrating he can keep clean and get into shape before training camp.
Im guessing of course, but maybe the contract length has been agreed upon and now its a matter of Upshaw getting through probation. |
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Lakerz113 Star Player
Joined: 15 Mar 2015 Posts: 2445
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Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 6:29 am Post subject: |
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Laker_Town wrote: | perhaps the agreement on the contract is that he prove himself during a period of time. Perhaps both he and the organization agreed on demonstrating he can keep clean and get into shape before training camp.
Im guessing of course, but maybe the contract length has been agreed upon and now its a matter of Upshaw getting through probation. |
I agree I think they either want him to prove himself or there working out stipulations of his contract about what they want him to continue to do. Could be testing , counseling, rehab , therapy, ext. |
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angrypuppy Retired Number
Joined: 13 Apr 2001 Posts: 32752
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Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 6:29 am Post subject: |
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If the risk is guaranteeing the second year, then you might as well do it. It's a minimum contract bet for something Sacre doesn't have: upside. |
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Four Decade Bandwagon Star Player
Joined: 18 Jul 2014 Posts: 8147
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Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 7:06 am Post subject: |
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angrypuppy wrote: | If the risk is guaranteeing the second year, then you might as well do it. It's a minimum contract bet for something Sacre doesn't have: upside. |
Unless they are not impressed by other factors we know little about.
His attitude, work ethic, sobriety.... then it could be a big risk and waste of money. I want to see Upshaw succeed for his and the Lakers benefit but lets not forget there was a reason he was kicked off two programs and every GM passed on him in the draft. |
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angrypuppy Retired Number
Joined: 13 Apr 2001 Posts: 32752
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Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 7:18 am Post subject: |
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Four Decade Bandwagon wrote: | angrypuppy wrote: | If the risk is guaranteeing the second year, then you might as well do it. It's a minimum contract bet for something Sacre doesn't have: upside. |
Unless they are not impressed by other factors we know little about.
His attitude, work ethic, sobriety.... then it could be a big risk and waste of money. I want to see Upshaw succeed for his and the Lakers benefit but lets not forget there was a reason he was kicked off two programs and every GM passed on him in the draft. |
It's a miniscule financial risk, you cannot make smaller bets than a league minimum contract. The only risk is PR if he gets tossed off the team for whatever reason, and even that PR risk is minimal as he's a very low profile player. Given the sorry state of the roster and the fact that the Lakers will miss out on two future first round picks within the next three season, embracing a small amount of risk for upside should be the first order of business. |
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