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ribeye
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 Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2015 9:29 am Post subject: How does San Antonio, realistically, sign Aldridge? |
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I don't see how or I'm missing something. According to Basketball Insiders, EP I suppose, SA has as much as $28.8M cap space (now I've given up being a capologist as I must re-learn this each year, but if the cap is to be ~66M and SA has ~34 committed, I see cap space of ~$32M). If they sign Leonard at ~15.8M, this leaves them ~13M . . . but Duncan, Ginobili, Green, Baynes, Joseph and others still have not signed. If Duncan and Ginobili each take a $2M cut, they will then make $8M and $5M respectively. Puff! Space be gone--or near gone if my numbers are correct,
How does San Antonio, realistically, sign Aldridge?
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joeblow
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| Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2015 10:00 am Post subject: |
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| Duncan & Ginobli discount combined with dropping Tiago or Green and waiting until the last second to max out Leanord. |
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dont_be_a_wuss
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| Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2015 10:14 am Post subject: |
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| Would Leonard get a new contract or an extension where his max wouldn't start for another year? I know in some situations rookies still have another year left when they sign their extension. What is their cap hit in that final year before the extension kicks in? |
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dont_be_a_wuss
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| Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2015 10:17 am Post subject: |
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| joeblow wrote: | | Duncan & Ginobli discount combined with dropping Tiago or Green and waiting until the last second to max out Leanord. |
Good call. Leonards cap hold is ~$7.3 Million. So they can keep his rights and still have (28.5-7.3), $20+ in cap space? |
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ribeye
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| Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2015 10:31 am Post subject: |
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| dont_be_a_wuss wrote: | | joeblow wrote: | | Duncan & Ginobli discount combined with dropping Tiago or Green and waiting until the last second to max out Leanord. |
Good call. Leonards cap hold is ~$7.3 Million. So they can keep his rights and still have (28.5-7.3), $20+ in cap space? |
This is good thinking, but Duncan at $8M and Ginobili at $5M already seems to be a discount. That is $13M. Even if they further discount this, to only take $10M between them, which seems a bit light for all they've done and all the previous discounts, that only leaves $10M for Aldridge AND a whole lotta holes.
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ribeye
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| Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2015 10:36 am Post subject: |
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As I think about this, maybe SA does a sign-and-trade with Green and Baynes and Portland does a sign-and-trade with Aldridge, or something along those lines.
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ribeye
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| Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2015 10:39 am Post subject: |
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| dont_be_a_wuss wrote: | | Would Leonard get a new contract or an extension where his max wouldn't start for another year? I know in some situations rookies still have another year left when they sign their extension. What is their cap hit in that final year before the extension kicks in? |
Leonard should get the max one way or another beginning next year. He is Pippen plus. He could (and should) sign whatever max deal any team offers with a one year out clause.
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joeblow
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| Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2015 10:44 am Post subject: |
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| ribeye wrote: | | dont_be_a_wuss wrote: | | joeblow wrote: | | Duncan & Ginobli discount combined with dropping Tiago or Green and waiting until the last second to max out Leanord. |
Good call. Leonards cap hold is ~$7.3 Million. So they can keep his rights and still have (28.5-7.3), $20+ in cap space? |
This is good thinking, but Duncan at $8M and Ginobili at $5M already seems to be a discount. That is $13M. Even if they further discount this, to only take $10M between them, which seems a bit light for all they've done and all the previous discounts, that only leaves $10M for Aldridge AND a whole lotta holes. |
You ignored the third part of my post - SA can drop salaries to make it work. Tiago or Green or even a Baynes+Joseph. |
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dont_be_a_wuss
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| Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2015 10:45 am Post subject: |
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| ribeye wrote: | | dont_be_a_wuss wrote: | | joeblow wrote: | | Duncan & Ginobli discount combined with dropping Tiago or Green and waiting until the last second to max out Leanord. |
Good call. Leonards cap hold is ~$7.3 Million. So they can keep his rights and still have (28.5-7.3), $20+ in cap space? |
This is good thinking, but Duncan at $8M and Ginobili at $5M already seems to be a discount. That is $13M. Even if they further discount this, to only take $10M between them, which seems a bit light for all they've done and all the previous discounts, that only leaves $10M for Aldridge AND a whole lotta holes. |
They would need to take even bigger discounts. Its would be pretty unbelievable if they worked everybody in. |
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ribeye
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| Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2015 10:49 am Post subject: |
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| dont_be_a_wuss wrote: | | ribeye wrote: | | dont_be_a_wuss wrote: | | joeblow wrote: | | Duncan & Ginobli discount combined with dropping Tiago or Green and waiting until the last second to max out Leanord. |
Good call. Leonards cap hold is ~$7.3 Million. So they can keep his rights and still have (28.5-7.3), $20+ in cap space? |
This is good thinking, but Duncan at $8M and Ginobili at $5M already seems to be a discount. That is $13M. Even if they further discount this, to only take $10M between them, which seems a bit light for all they've done and all the previous discounts, that only leaves $10M for Aldridge AND a whole lotta holes. |
They would need to take even bigger discounts. Its would be pretty unbelievable if they worked everybody in. |
Indeed it would be. Aldridge stands to make $18.9M. If we go back to the $20+ number minus $18.9, this leaves $1M+ for both of them.
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ribeye
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| Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2015 10:59 am Post subject: |
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| joeblow wrote: | | ribeye wrote: | | dont_be_a_wuss wrote: | | joeblow wrote: | | Duncan & Ginobli discount combined with dropping Tiago or Green and waiting until the last second to max out Leanord. |
Good call. Leonards cap hold is ~$7.3 Million. So they can keep his rights and still have (28.5-7.3), $20+ in cap space? |
This is good thinking, but Duncan at $8M and Ginobili at $5M already seems to be a discount. That is $13M. Even if they further discount this, to only take $10M between them, which seems a bit light for all they've done and all the previous discounts, that only leaves $10M for Aldridge AND a whole lotta holes. |
You ignored the third part of my post - SA can drop salaries to make it work. Tiago or Green or even a Baynes+Joseph. |
As I read this:
Projected 2015/16 Cap Space: $0-$28.8 million, depending on cap holds for Tim Duncan, Manu Ginobili, Kawhi Leonard, Danny Green and others [others would include Baynes, Joseph and all the smaller contracts. Splitter is signed].
I think this assumes 0 cap holds for all to reach the $28.8M max.
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eureca
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| Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2015 12:15 pm Post subject: |
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Yes I think it would require trading Tiago Splitter and letting Green go.
You would have to see what pay cuts Duncan/Manu are willing take. Maybe Manu retires or Spurs let him walk. Or they ask him to take the room exception after they fill their roster. Apparently Spurs were rejecting Splitter trades on draft night, but they probably are just waiting to see if they can land Aldridge before committing on trading Splitter.. |
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ribeye
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| Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2015 12:45 pm Post subject: |
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Maybe, or maybe hopefully, if San Antoine lets Manu and Green go and trades Splitter and they don't match Joseph and Baynes and whoever else, Aldridge will wonder just what team he will find. Of course, he and Leonard will make a great duo and they will still have Duncan and Parker, but since the Laks wouldn't be that far behind and much younger . . .
Oh what the hey, just go after Love; he's younger besides.
(And come to think of it, is Aldridge that good that he is better than Green and Splitter and Manu and Joseph and Baynes???)
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USCandLakers
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| Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2015 2:20 pm Post subject: |
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| ribeye wrote: | | dont_be_a_wuss wrote: | | Would Leonard get a new contract or an extension where his max wouldn't start for another year? I know in some situations rookies still have another year left when they sign their extension. What is their cap hit in that final year before the extension kicks in? |
Leonard should get the max one way or another beginning next year. He is Pippen plus. He could (and should) sign whatever max deal any team offers with a one year out clause. |
What does that even mean?
Yeah I bit. Couldn't help it.
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ribeye
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| Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2015 2:36 pm Post subject: |
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| USCandLakers wrote: | | ribeye wrote: | | dont_be_a_wuss wrote: | | Would Leonard get a new contract or an extension where his max wouldn't start for another year? I know in some situations rookies still have another year left when they sign their extension. What is their cap hit in that final year before the extension kicks in? |
Leonard should get the max one way or another beginning next year. He is Pippen plus. He could (and should) sign whatever max deal any team offers with a one year out clause. |
What does that even mean?
Yeah I bit. Couldn't help it. |
Check out their first four years, stats, advanced stats and accomplishment.
Edge Leonard
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SuperboyReformed
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| Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2015 10:49 pm Post subject: |
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If there's a chance for Aldridge to come to the Lakers, then I can forget about Cousins.
Leonard is Pippen plus?? not even close. Of course, i'm of the opinion that Pippen is a better player than Lebron. Isn't Pippen considered a top 50 player of all time? comments like this kind of indicate that you haven't actually seen the NBA during the 90s. |
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joeblow
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| Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2015 11:30 pm Post subject: |
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| ribeye wrote: | Maybe, or maybe hopefully, if San Antoine lets Manu and Green go and trades Splitter and they don't match Joseph and Baynes and whoever else, Aldridge will wonder just what team he will find. Of course, he and Leonard will make a great duo and they will still have Duncan and Parker, but since the Laks wouldn't be that far behind and much younger . . .
Oh what the hey, just go after Love; he's younger besides.
(And come to think of it, is Aldridge that good that he is better than Green and Splitter and Manu and Joseph and Baynes???) |
Lol, that's the second time you didn't pay attention to my first post. I didn't use the conjunction "and" when showing options that the Spurs would need to cut salary. I said OR.
Besides Duncan/Ginobli discounts and a late KL signing, they need to cut salary by losing Tiago -OR- Green -OR- even Joseph+Baynes if the discount is a bit bigger. |
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ribeye
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| Posted: Sun Jun 28, 2015 5:36 am Post subject: |
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| SuperboyReformed wrote: | If there's a chance for Aldridge to come to the Lakers, then I can forget about Cousins.
Leonard is Pippen plus?? not even close. Of course, i'm of the opinion that Pippen is a better player than Lebron. Isn't Pippen considered a top 50 player of all time? comments like this kind of indicate that you haven't actually seen the NBA during the 90s. |
Nice try, I've been watching (though mostly listening early on as there were so few games televised) since the very early 60's. Just how many Finals MVP's did Pip ever have, or was he ever a defensive player of the year? He had one second team all defensive after four years. Leonard has one plus a first plus a Finals MVP + an all defensive player all in his first four years + substantially better advanced stats and he is two years younger. Pip's first three years were very average and no better.
And then better than LeBron? C'mon I won't even bother with that one.
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ribeye
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| Posted: Sun Jun 28, 2015 6:38 am Post subject: |
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| joeblow wrote: | | ribeye wrote: | Maybe, or maybe hopefully, if San Antoine lets Manu and Green go and trades Splitter and they don't match Joseph and Baynes and whoever else, Aldridge will wonder just what team he will find. Of course, he and Leonard will make a great duo and they will still have Duncan and Parker, but since the Laks wouldn't be that far behind and much younger . . .
Oh what the hey, just go after Love; he's younger besides.
(And come to think of it, is Aldridge that good that he is better than Green and Splitter and Manu and Joseph and Baynes???) |
Lol, that's the second time you didn't pay attention to my first post. I didn't use the conjunction "and" when showing options that the Spurs would need to cut salary. I said OR.
Besides Duncan/Ginobli discounts and a late KL signing, they need to cut salary by losing Tiago -OR- Green -OR- even Joseph+Baynes if the discount is a bit bigger. |
I get what you say; I just don't see the numbers add the way you do.
Let's do this the additive way.
Parker, Splitter, Diaw, Mills, and Anderson have a total guaranteed next season of $34,159,326. Add Leonard at $15.8M and Aldridge at $18.9M and you have $68,859,326 (over the cap). Subtract Splitter and his $8.5M and you are at $60,359,326. This is for six players and does not include Duncan, Ginobili, Splitter, Green, Baynes, Joseph or the other slots that must be accounted for if less than 12 players. A team must fill 12 slots, so with that six, plus six slots of $525,093, we now have another $3,150,558. If the cap will be $66.3M and we're at $63,509,884, that leaves approximately 3.8 million for Duncan and Ginobili (not $2.8M as we must subtract the $525,093 from each slot already accounted for) and you have no Splitter and no Green and no Baynes and no Joseph. If Duncan wants 3.3M, you can add, and no Ginobili. If Duncan wants more, you can add, and no Duncan.
With Duncan at $3.3M, this would be 7 players and would have to include 5 at rookie minimum, and no more, to work.
If Duncan and Ginobili sign for a very reasonable $8M and $5M (a $2M cut each), then I don't see how SA gets Aldridge at the max.
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joeblow
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| Posted: Sun Jun 28, 2015 10:53 am Post subject: |
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Three strikes and you're out. How do you miss the info I plainly spelled out in my first post for a third time? Your order of operations is way off since you have signing KL as the Spurs' first transaction.
As I said twice, the Spurs would have to sign Leonard after the other transactions since the league allows teams to re-sign their own players while over the cap. That way, only the cap hold of a much (much) smaller dollar value for KL applies as they attempt to sign Aldridge under the cap if the also do other key actions I wrote.
Dude, you asked a question and it was answered competently in the first post response. All you have to do is slow down and read it carefully to comprehend their likely strategy. |
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Dreamshake
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| Posted: Sun Jun 28, 2015 10:58 am Post subject: |
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It's not that difficult. Let their free agents walk (ie Green), trade Splitter (not hard, look at his contract) and have Duncan/Manu give a big discount. They can exceed the cap to sign Leonard.
If he wants the Spurs it will happen. |
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ribeye
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| Posted: Sun Jun 28, 2015 11:46 am Post subject: |
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| joeblow wrote: | Three strikes and you're out. How do you miss the info I plainly spelled out in my first post for a third time? Your order of operations is way off since you have signing KL as the Spurs' first transaction.
As I said twice, the Spurs would have to sign Leonard after the other transactions since the league allows teams to re-sign their own players while over the cap. That way, only the cap hold of a much (much) smaller dollar value for KL applies as they attempt to sign Aldridge under the cap if the also do other key actions I wrote.
Dude, you asked a question and it was answered competently in the first post response. All you have to do is slow down and read it carefully to comprehend their likely strategy. |
I was not looking for any particular order. Let's do it in the order you suggest.
We start with the 34.2. This is on the books
We add the 7.2 cap hold for Leonard (41.4) and SA trades Splitter and we'll just assume they take nothing back. We're at 32.9
So far, this excludes Splitter AND Green, who is not on the books.
They sign Duncan and Ginobili at 13. We're now at 45.9 for 5 players. Assuming SA doesn't make a qualifying offer for Baynes or Joseph, they have 7 others slots that need to be figured at the minimum, which will add 3.7. Now we are at 49.6, with 16.7 remaining cap space. They only have 17.2 (17.2-.5 hold=16.7) for Aldridge, less than the 18.9 estimated he could get, and they have lost Splitter and Green and Baynes and Joseph. Now, if Duncan and Ginobili take even less, (or they don't sign one or the other) they could sign Aldridge for the max, but they still lose four players and must add 5 minimum-only players.
Then, yes, they could sign Leonard to the max.
This all assumes they trade Splitter and receive nothing beyond a minimum in return, that they ignore Green. they don't make an offer for Baynes and Joseph, that Duncan and Ginobili, take something like 11.5 between them and that they could live with 5 minimum-only players to round out the roster. If either Duncan or Ginobili want something closer to what they're worth (they are easily worth 10 and 5), and the other is not willing to work for what would be an insulting amount, then they lose one or the other.
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jonnybravo
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| Posted: Sun Jun 28, 2015 12:26 pm Post subject: |
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If he had the balls to do it and only wanted a go for the ring, I'd sign a 1 year deal if I were LMA and make a run this year and cash in on 2016.
I'd take a wait and see because I'm not so sure SA is where you'd want to be long term. We can talk all about them being this model franchise but that begins and ends with the Pop regime. I'd hate to be there when TD retires and Pop leaves etc. |
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ribeye
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| Posted: Sun Jun 28, 2015 1:46 pm Post subject: |
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| jonnybravo wrote: | If he had the balls to do it and only wanted a go for the ring, I'd sign a 1 year deal if I were LMA and make a run this year and cash in on 2016.
I'd take a wait and see because I'm not so sure SA is where you'd want to be long term. We can talk all about them being this model franchise but that begins and ends with the Pop regime. I'd hate to be there when TD retires and Pop leaves etc. |
It is hard to imagine any of the premium players not wanting a one year opt-out. Now if you feel your knee has no more cartilage, or whatever, you might have a different strategy.
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WindyCityLakerFan
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| Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 6:06 am Post subject: |
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| Ok can someone explain this to me. Since Leonard agreed to his extension doesn't that eat up the cap space. What's the difference between this and the Juwan Howard Alonzo mourning thing with the heat. |
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