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Omar Little
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 Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2015 1:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Four Decade Bandwagon wrote: | Curious about how vocal a defensive leader Hibbert is. When he was at his best was he the "leader" of the defense in Indiana?
The Pacers were very good but they had George and Stephenson on the perimeter. How much of the defensive credit for organizing and for lack of a better term "captaining" the defense was actually on Hibbert?
Can we expect him to help the inexperienced Lakers get into position and make the right rotations? I suppose I am asking about the cerebral aspect of the game from Hibbert. |
Hibbert is much like Marc Gasol in that he reads and calls the defense from his position at the back of it. He is very similar to a safety in football who looks over the set and motion of the offense and then calls out adjustments. |
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MJST
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| Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2015 1:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Four Decade Bandwagon wrote: | Curious about how vocal a defensive leader Hibbert is. When he was at his best was he the "leader" of the defense in Indiana?
The Pacers were very good but they had George and Stephenson on the perimeter. How much of the defensive credit for organizing and for lack of a better term "captaining" the defense was actually on Hibbert?
Can we expect him to help the inexperienced Lakers get into position and make the right rotations? I suppose I am asking about the cerebral aspect of the game from Hibbert. |
Watch how Charlotte was defensively with Stephenson and watch how Indiana was defensively without George Hill or Paul George and with just Roy Hibbert.
Charlotte fell from 5th with CDR as their main wing defender Defensively to 9th with the addition of Stephenson.
Indiana was 1st defensively with George Hill, Stephenson, George Hibbert.
They fell to 7th defensively, with mainly Hibbert and no George or Hill.
That essentially means that by himself Hibbert was able to keep Indiana a top 10 team defensively without George, Stephenson or Hill. And Stephenson whom went to a deeper team than it was the previous year saw them drop defensively tremendously.
The thought was that their defense would get better with Stephenson, it got worse. The thought was Indiana was doomed to the bottom of the lottery with just Hibbert there, but they actually won 38 games and were still top 10 defensively with only ONE of their defenders left.
So yeah, I think Hibbert deserves a lot of credit. |
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Four Decade Bandwagon
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| Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2015 2:45 pm Post subject: |
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Good to hear. Lakers need a defensive QB to help the team gel.
Thanks for the responses. |
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kikanga
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| Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2015 4:20 pm Post subject: |
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It's disappointing to me that Hibbert only plays 25 minutes a game.
But I hope Black performs well off the bench for us at the 5.
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Oliver Reed
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| Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2015 6:37 pm Post subject: |
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I hate to throw cold water on this but unless Bird was purposely brainwashing him like Charles Manson, how is his mental state going to deal with the LA media and Laker fan base once he has a bad stretch of games?
And we all know Byron Scott is one of the worst adjustment coaches to ever coach. How will he deal with Hibbert mentally checking out in games?
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Jim99187
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| Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2015 8:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Oliver Reed wrote: | I hate to throw cold water on this but unless Bird was purposely brainwashing him like Charles Manson, how is his mental state going to deal with the LA media and Laker fan base once he has a bad stretch of games?
And we all know Byron Scott is one of the worst adjustment coaches to ever coach. How will he deal with Hibbert mentally checking out in games? |
to his credit, byron had KMart and then Tyson Chandler. they worked out well
Hibbert situation was same as Pau Gasol. Paul George slept with his gf/fiance and they had locker room problems from Lance to evan turner to bynum.
gasol had an all star season last yr. i see bounce back from hibbert as well |
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Oliver Reed
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| Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2015 10:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Jim99187 wrote: | | Oliver Reed wrote: | I hate to throw cold water on this but unless Bird was purposely brainwashing him like Charles Manson, how is his mental state going to deal with the LA media and Laker fan base once he has a bad stretch of games?
And we all know Byron Scott is one of the worst adjustment coaches to ever coach. How will he deal with Hibbert mentally checking out in games? |
to his credit, byron had KMart and then Tyson Chandler. they worked out well
Hibbert situation was same as Pau Gasol. Paul George slept with his gf/fiance and they had locker room problems from Lance to evan turner to bynum.
gasol had an all star season last yr. i see bounce back from hibbert as well |
Sounds like my fraternity days. Some dudes are pieces of (bleep). For real. All that tang, and they have to still drink their boys juice.
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PICKnPOP
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| Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2015 11:02 pm Post subject: |
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| I think we're in for a big surprise this season. Defensively we are going to be better than expected. If hibbert can make us a top 10 defensive team I think we can be a very good team with the weapons we have offensively. |
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silkwilkes
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| Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2015 11:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Hibbert alone can't do everything... he'll help a lot. But it's really important for the wing players to funnel their man into areas that allow Hibbert to protect the rim. It's one thing to be a bad 1v1 defender in terms of keeping a player in front of you; it's another level of bad if you can't keep a player in front of you AND you allow him to go either left or right on you. At the very least, you should be able to take one side away. |
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kikanga
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| Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 7:44 am Post subject: |
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| silkwilkes wrote: | | Hibbert alone can't do everything... he'll help a lot. But it's really important for the wing players to funnel their man into areas that allow Hibbert to protect the rim. It's one thing to be a bad 1v1 defender in terms of keeping a player in front of you; it's another level of bad if you can't keep a player in front of you AND you allow him to go either left or right on you. At the very least, you should be able to take one side away. |
I worry our perimeter defense will be so bad, Hibbert's paint defense won't be able to make up the difference.
I hope running Bass at the 4 will clean up the big man defensive rotations.
I'm sure Hibbert will rotate and stop penetration, but we'll need to help the helper and box out for the defensive board.
Randle lacks enthusiasm in that department IMO.
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Jim99187
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| Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 8:06 am Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | | silkwilkes wrote: | | Hibbert alone can't do everything... he'll help a lot. But it's really important for the wing players to funnel their man into areas that allow Hibbert to protect the rim. It's one thing to be a bad 1v1 defender in terms of keeping a player in front of you; it's another level of bad if you can't keep a player in front of you AND you allow him to go either left or right on you. At the very least, you should be able to take one side away. |
I worry our perimeter defense will be so bad, Hibbert's paint defense won't be able to make up the difference.
I hope running Bass at the 4 will clean up the big man defensive rotations.
I'm sure Hibbert will rotate and stop penetration, but we'll need to help the helper and box out for the defensive board.
Randle lacks enthusiasm in that department IMO. |
i agree with Bass starting. Cant we expect our young guys Clarkson/Russell to atleast keep their man in front?
i know better said then done but i want to know what's byron's philosophy on this. cause last yr i didnt see any defensive scheme played |
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Jim99187
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| Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 8:10 am Post subject: |
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| PICKnPOP wrote: | | I think we're in for a big surprise this season. Defensively we are going to be better than expected. If hibbert can make us a top 10 defensive team I think we can be a very good team with the weapons we have offensively. |
i will be just happy if we moved from 29 to 15-18 let alone top 10 |
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greenfrog
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| Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 8:21 am Post subject: |
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| PICKnPOP wrote: | | I think we're in for a big surprise this season. Defensively we are going to be better than expected. If hibbert can make us a top 10 defensive team I think we can be a very good team with the weapons we have offensively. |
I'm really interested to see how much impact Hibbert will have on the overall defense. Deandre Jordan alone couldn't make the Clippers a top 10 defensive team, and they had some other good defensive players. |
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22
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| Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 8:24 am Post subject: |
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| I'm more worried about scheme defensively than I am personnel. If they're being taught right, it will eventually click for the young guns. They all have the natural abilities to play good defense |
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Jim99187
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| Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 8:33 am Post subject: |
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| greenfrog wrote: | | PICKnPOP wrote: | | I think we're in for a big surprise this season. Defensively we are going to be better than expected. If hibbert can make us a top 10 defensive team I think we can be a very good team with the weapons we have offensively. |
I'm really interested to see how much impact Hibbert will have on the overall defense. Deandre Jordan alone couldn't make the Clippers a top 10 defensive team, and they had some other good defensive players. |
like who?
Griffin? horrible defender
Barnes: overrated and old. below average
Reddick: below average
CP3: below average
Jamal: pretty bad |
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greenfrog
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| Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 8:37 am Post subject: |
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| Jim99187 wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | PICKnPOP wrote: | | I think we're in for a big surprise this season. Defensively we are going to be better than expected. If hibbert can make us a top 10 defensive team I think we can be a very good team with the weapons we have offensively. |
I'm really interested to see how much impact Hibbert will have on the overall defense. Deandre Jordan alone couldn't make the Clippers a top 10 defensive team, and they had some other good defensive players. |
like who?
Griffin? horrible defender
Barnes: overrated and old. below average
Reddick: below average
CP3: below average
Jamal: pretty bad |
If you think CP3 is below average your definition of defense needs to be seriously adjusted.
Reddick is probably average. Griffin is not horrible. Barnes is good. |
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Jim99187
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| Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 8:44 am Post subject: |
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| greenfrog wrote: | | Jim99187 wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | PICKnPOP wrote: | | I think we're in for a big surprise this season. Defensively we are going to be better than expected. If hibbert can make us a top 10 defensive team I think we can be a very good team with the weapons we have offensively. |
I'm really interested to see how much impact Hibbert will have on the overall defense. Deandre Jordan alone couldn't make the Clippers a top 10 defensive team, and they had some other good defensive players. |
like who?
Griffin? horrible defender
Barnes: overrated and old. below average
Reddick: below average
CP3: below average
Jamal: pretty bad |
If you think CP3 is below average your definition of defense needs to be seriously adjusted.
Reddick is probably average. Griffin is not horrible. Barnes is good. |
ya i agree with CP3 but barnes is no good. fake tough guy and instigator.
Griffin is below average and barnes is nowhere close to good. below average as well.
DeAndre himself is a good rim protector but average Man to man defender. |
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MJST
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| Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 10:23 am Post subject: |
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| greenfrog wrote: | | PICKnPOP wrote: | | I think we're in for a big surprise this season. Defensively we are going to be better than expected. If hibbert can make us a top 10 defensive team I think we can be a very good team with the weapons we have offensively. |
I'm really interested to see how much impact Hibbert will have on the overall defense. Deandre Jordan alone couldn't make the Clippers a top 10 defensive team, and they had some other good defensive players. |
Thats because Deandre Jordan is overrated defensively. He, puts up worse rim protecting numbers than DeMarcus Cousins and people shoot a higher field goal percentage against him defensively than they do Cousins as well. That says enough. |
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Jim99187
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| Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 11:03 am Post subject: |
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| MJST wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | PICKnPOP wrote: | | I think we're in for a big surprise this season. Defensively we are going to be better than expected. If hibbert can make us a top 10 defensive team I think we can be a very good team with the weapons we have offensively. |
I'm really interested to see how much impact Hibbert will have on the overall defense. Deandre Jordan alone couldn't make the Clippers a top 10 defensive team, and they had some other good defensive players. |
Thats because Deandre Jordan is overrated defensively. He, puts up worse rim protecting numbers than DeMarcus Cousins and people shoot a higher field goal percentage against him defensively than they do Cousins as well. That says enough. |
agreed 100% on this |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 11:14 am Post subject: |
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Yeah DJ goes for highlight blocks and is often terribly out of place on defense. That being said he also has some spectacular defense and is a rim protector.
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MJST
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| Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 11:29 am Post subject: |
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Yes he is a rim protector ... he is also statistically one of the worst in the league at center and gives up more points there than Cousins whom people knock for his defense.
I think there was a reason the Lakers barely gave any effort towards signing him or pitching to hom when they had Hibbert in their back pocket.
Hibbert has remained top 3 in the league at his position in defending and rim protection, even in a down year like last year whike Deanfre pretty much near the bottom.
Consider that Hibbert by himself made Indiana a top 7 defense team last year and DeAndre with CP3 and so.some other wings and a deep team and they were 15th.. that's on the border of being bottom half of the league... that says a lot imo. |
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BigGameHames
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| Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2015 6:58 am Post subject: |
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| Jim99187 wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | Jim99187 wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | PICKnPOP wrote: | | I think we're in for a big surprise this season. Defensively we are going to be better than expected. If hibbert can make us a top 10 defensive team I think we can be a very good team with the weapons we have offensively. |
I'm really interested to see how much impact Hibbert will have on the overall defense. Deandre Jordan alone couldn't make the Clippers a top 10 defensive team, and they had some other good defensive players. |
like who?
Griffin? horrible defender
Barnes: overrated and old. below average
Reddick: below average
CP3: below average
Jamal: pretty bad |
If you think CP3 is below average your definition of defense needs to be seriously adjusted.
Reddick is probably average. Griffin is not horrible. Barnes is good. |
ya i agree with CP3 but barnes is no good. fake tough guy and instigator.
Griffin is below average and barnes is nowhere close to good. below average as well.
DeAndre himself is a good rim protector but average Man to man defender. |
I don't think Griffin is horrible but I agree he isn't a good defender. As for CP3, I believe he is an exceptional defender. I'm pretty sure amongst players he is considered one of the NBAs best defenders at PG. |
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ElginBaylor
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| Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2015 7:07 am Post subject: |
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| MJST wrote: | Yes he is a rim protector ... he is also statistically one of the worst in the league at center and gives up more points there than Cousins whom people knock for his defense.
I think there was a reason the Lakers barely gave any effort towards signing him or pitching to hom when they had Hibbert in their back pocket.
Hibbert has remained top 3 in the league at his position in defending and rim protection, even in a down year like last year whike Deanfre pretty much near the bottom.
Consider that Hibbert by himself made Indiana a top 7 defense team last year and DeAndre with CP3 and so.some other wings and a deep team and they were 15th.. that's on the border of being bottom half of the league... that says a lot imo. |
Here are the questions rolling around in my mind regarding good and bad defenders. I can understand being a poor defender because of physical limitations, for example size, either lack of or too much. But outside of that, I would say team defense largely relies on coaching. So when I hear of an individual, who is considered athletic at the level of being professional and paid millions because of their athleticism, not being a good defender, I've got to wonder how much of that is due to motivation and emphasis on defense in the system being run. CP3, as was Kobe in his prime, can be an elite defender simply because he's a great athlete. Russell, Clarkson, Randle, Hibbert, Black, are all exceptional athletes. Seems to me there's no reason they can't be exceptional defenders given the proper coaching.
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greenfrog
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| Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2015 7:37 am Post subject: |
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| ElginBaylor wrote: | | MJST wrote: | Yes he is a rim protector ... he is also statistically one of the worst in the league at center and gives up more points there than Cousins whom people knock for his defense.
I think there was a reason the Lakers barely gave any effort towards signing him or pitching to hom when they had Hibbert in their back pocket.
Hibbert has remained top 3 in the league at his position in defending and rim protection, even in a down year like last year whike Deanfre pretty much near the bottom.
Consider that Hibbert by himself made Indiana a top 7 defense team last year and DeAndre with CP3 and so.some other wings and a deep team and they were 15th.. that's on the border of being bottom half of the league... that says a lot imo. |
Here are the questions rolling around in my mind regarding good and bad defenders. I can understand being a poor defender because of physical limitations, for example size, either lack of or too much. But outside of that, I would say team defense largely relies on coaching. So when I hear of an individual, who is considered athletic at the level of being professional and paid millions because of their athleticism, not being a good defender, I've got to wonder how much of that is due to motivation and emphasis on defense in the system being run. CP3, as was Kobe in his prime, can be an elite defender simply because he's a great athlete. Russell, Clarkson, Randle, Hibbert, Black, are all exceptional athletes. Seems to me there's no reason they can't be exceptional defenders given the proper coaching. |
I wouldn't describe Russell and Black's athleticism as exceptional. Randle might be in the category, but he doesn't have great length.
To your main point, motivation is internal. If you have a bunch of lazy guys who don't want to play defense nothing the coach can do or say will magically transform that.
Schemes... now that's on coaching. |
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Jim99187
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| Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2015 7:49 am Post subject: |
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| greenfrog wrote: | | ElginBaylor wrote: | | MJST wrote: | Yes he is a rim protector ... he is also statistically one of the worst in the league at center and gives up more points there than Cousins whom people knock for his defense.
I think there was a reason the Lakers barely gave any effort towards signing him or pitching to hom when they had Hibbert in their back pocket.
Hibbert has remained top 3 in the league at his position in defending and rim protection, even in a down year like last year whike Deanfre pretty much near the bottom.
Consider that Hibbert by himself made Indiana a top 7 defense team last year and DeAndre with CP3 and so.some other wings and a deep team and they were 15th.. that's on the border of being bottom half of the league... that says a lot imo. |
Here are the questions rolling around in my mind regarding good and bad defenders. I can understand being a poor defender because of physical limitations, for example size, either lack of or too much. But outside of that, I would say team defense largely relies on coaching. So when I hear of an individual, who is considered athletic at the level of being professional and paid millions because of their athleticism, not being a good defender, I've got to wonder how much of that is due to motivation and emphasis on defense in the system being run. CP3, as was Kobe in his prime, can be an elite defender simply because he's a great athlete. Russell, Clarkson, Randle, Hibbert, Black, are all exceptional athletes. Seems to me there's no reason they can't be exceptional defenders given the proper coaching. |
I wouldn't describe Russell and Black's athleticism as exceptional. Randle might be in the category, but he doesn't have great length.
To your main point, motivation is internal. If you have a bunch of lazy guys who don't want to play defense nothing the coach can do or say will magically transform that.
Schemes... now that's on coaching. |
u talking of wes johnson? all talent/attributes in the world but no internal desire |
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