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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2015 11:14 am    Post subject:

Of course there are a variable of possible results, but I have a hard time seeing Kobe accept a deal under $15m (given new cap.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2015 11:20 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Of course there are a variable of possible results, but I have a hard time seeing Kobe accept a deal under $15m (given new cap.


At the same I would not want to pay him a dollar over 15. Not saying he isnt deserving, but right now the future of the franchise is more important. Kobe got his money, Kobe gone be alright.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2015 11:35 am    Post subject:

Tony Anapolis wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Of course there are a variable of possible results, but I have a hard time seeing Kobe accept a deal under $15m (given new cap.


At the same I would not want to pay him a dollar over 15. Not saying he isnt deserving, but right now the future of the franchise is more important. Kobe got his money, Kobe gone be alright.


But Kobe will say that if it's his final year, the Lakers are going to make TONS of money on a Kobe farewell tour. He will make a business argument for paying him more than what he's worth on the court.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2015 11:37 am    Post subject:

Right, but agreeing to a deal early on in free agency lets the FO know how much money they have to spend and lets other free agents know whether Kobe will be back or not. At that point you don't need to worry about his cap hold anymore and can go spend some money.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2015 11:38 am    Post subject:

If the Lakers sign a top free agent (meaning playoff run) I can see Kobe joining the team for less money
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2015 11:42 am    Post subject:

DoubleClutch wrote:
Right, but agreeing to a deal early on in free agency lets the FO know how much money they have to spend and lets other free agents know whether Kobe will be back or not. At that point you don't need to worry about his cap hold anymore and can go spend some money.


There will be plenty of time to figure that out. As 24 pointed out, the cap hold doesn't affect anything but the order in which things are done.

Of course Lakers can sign Kobe first, but that may send mixed signals to guys like Durant (unless he is told beforehand and still wants to come) since Kobe/Durant will likely take up around 40m of our 60m in cap space, meaning, we have little room after that to entice Durant to come b/c we can't afford another max player (have to re-sign Clarkson, Hibbert, Bass amongst others).
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2015 11:42 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Tony Anapolis wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Of course there are a variable of possible results, but I have a hard time seeing Kobe accept a deal under $15m (given new cap.


At the same I would not want to pay him a dollar over 15. Not saying he isnt deserving, but right now the future of the franchise is more important. Kobe got his money, Kobe gone be alright.


But Kobe will say that if it's his final year, the Lakers are going to make TONS of money on a Kobe farewell tour. He will make a business argument for paying him more than what he's worth on the court.

Possibly. Depends on if they can sell him on the idea of adding 1 or 2 max level players. At this point Kobe's current contract paid him far more than he has been worth. I can see him playing for $5-10 mil if he thinks they can get a guy like Durant to be the new star in LA.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2015 11:43 am    Post subject:

DoubleClutch wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Tony Anapolis wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Of course there are a variable of possible results, but I have a hard time seeing Kobe accept a deal under $15m (given new cap.


At the same I would not want to pay him a dollar over 15. Not saying he isnt deserving, but right now the future of the franchise is more important. Kobe got his money, Kobe gone be alright.


But Kobe will say that if it's his final year, the Lakers are going to make TONS of money on a Kobe farewell tour. He will make a business argument for paying him more than what he's worth on the court.

Possibly. Depends on if they can sell him on the idea of adding 1 or 2 max level players. At this point Kobe's current contract paid him far more than he has been worth. I can see him playing for $5-10 mil if he thinks they can get a guy like Durant to be the new star in LA.


I think we've been down that road of making Kobe take paycuts. I think he will have a legit argument that in his final year, the Lakers will make so much off him that it's unfair to expect him to take such a drastic paycut.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2015 12:30 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
DoubleClutch wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Tony Anapolis wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Of course there are a variable of possible results, but I have a hard time seeing Kobe accept a deal under $15m (given new cap.


At the same I would not want to pay him a dollar over 15. Not saying he isnt deserving, but right now the future of the franchise is more important. Kobe got his money, Kobe gone be alright.


But Kobe will say that if it's his final year, the Lakers are going to make TONS of money on a Kobe farewell tour. He will make a business argument for paying him more than what he's worth on the court.

Possibly. Depends on if they can sell him on the idea of adding 1 or 2 max level players. At this point Kobe's current contract paid him far more than he has been worth. I can see him playing for $5-10 mil if he thinks they can get a guy like Durant to be the new star in LA.


I think we've been down that road of making Kobe take paycuts. I think he will have a legit argument that in his final year, the Lakers will make so much off him that it's unfair to expect him to take such a drastic paycut.


I'm glad in his interview Jim made it clear that if Kobe returns it will be on the team's terms. I think that meant no more big paydays.

In truth, it's just a big mistake to re-sign him. Each year we put off the rebuild is another year lost. My guess is he'll see that he's not getting maxed again and retire. That's if he's able to finish the season healthy.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2015 12:33 pm    Post subject:

ocho wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
DoubleClutch wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Tony Anapolis wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Of course there are a variable of possible results, but I have a hard time seeing Kobe accept a deal under $15m (given new cap.


At the same I would not want to pay him a dollar over 15. Not saying he isnt deserving, but right now the future of the franchise is more important. Kobe got his money, Kobe gone be alright.


But Kobe will say that if it's his final year, the Lakers are going to make TONS of money on a Kobe farewell tour. He will make a business argument for paying him more than what he's worth on the court.

Possibly. Depends on if they can sell him on the idea of adding 1 or 2 max level players. At this point Kobe's current contract paid him far more than he has been worth. I can see him playing for $5-10 mil if he thinks they can get a guy like Durant to be the new star in LA.


I think we've been down that road of making Kobe take paycuts. I think he will have a legit argument that in his final year, the Lakers will make so much off him that it's unfair to expect him to take such a drastic paycut.


I'm glad in his interview Jim made it clear that if Kobe returns it will be on the team's terms. I think that meant no more big paydays.

In truth, it's just a big mistake to re-sign him. Each year we put off the rebuild is another year lost. My guess is he'll see that he's not getting maxed again and retire. That's if he's able to finish the season healthy.


It's too bad really. I would love to see Kobe in a sixth man role (and actually embrace it). 20 mpg with the bench unit as a scorer and facilitator.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2015 12:33 pm    Post subject:

ocho wrote:
I'm glad in his interview Jim made it clear that if Kobe returns it will be on the team's terms. I think that meant no more big paydays.


I'd love to see the full context of that interview, but he didn't exactly lead off with that ultimatum when asked about Kobe like that. I'm not sure how much it's his choice alone either, but yeah, go Jim.


Last edited by greenfrog on Thu Sep 03, 2015 12:35 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2015 12:34 pm    Post subject:

24 wrote:
ocho wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
DoubleClutch wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Tony Anapolis wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Of course there are a variable of possible results, but I have a hard time seeing Kobe accept a deal under $15m (given new cap.


At the same I would not want to pay him a dollar over 15. Not saying he isnt deserving, but right now the future of the franchise is more important. Kobe got his money, Kobe gone be alright.


But Kobe will say that if it's his final year, the Lakers are going to make TONS of money on a Kobe farewell tour. He will make a business argument for paying him more than what he's worth on the court.

Possibly. Depends on if they can sell him on the idea of adding 1 or 2 max level players. At this point Kobe's current contract paid him far more than he has been worth. I can see him playing for $5-10 mil if he thinks they can get a guy like Durant to be the new star in LA.


I think we've been down that road of making Kobe take paycuts. I think he will have a legit argument that in his final year, the Lakers will make so much off him that it's unfair to expect him to take such a drastic paycut.


I'm glad in his interview Jim made it clear that if Kobe returns it will be on the team's terms. I think that meant no more big paydays.

In truth, it's just a big mistake to re-sign him. Each year we put off the rebuild is another year lost. My guess is he'll see that he's not getting maxed again and retire. That's if he's able to finish the season healthy.


It's too bad really. I would love to see Kobe in a sixth man role (and actually embrace it). 20 mpg with the bench unit as a scorer and facilitator.


Yeah, he'd really kill it in that capacity. But that would also require a massive paycut and not sure if Kobe's up for diminutions in both departments.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2015 12:38 pm    Post subject:

24 wrote:
ocho wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
DoubleClutch wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Tony Anapolis wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Of course there are a variable of possible results, but I have a hard time seeing Kobe accept a deal under $15m (given new cap.


At the same I would not want to pay him a dollar over 15. Not saying he isnt deserving, but right now the future of the franchise is more important. Kobe got his money, Kobe gone be alright.


But Kobe will say that if it's his final year, the Lakers are going to make TONS of money on a Kobe farewell tour. He will make a business argument for paying him more than what he's worth on the court.

Possibly. Depends on if they can sell him on the idea of adding 1 or 2 max level players. At this point Kobe's current contract paid him far more than he has been worth. I can see him playing for $5-10 mil if he thinks they can get a guy like Durant to be the new star in LA.


I think we've been down that road of making Kobe take paycuts. I think he will have a legit argument that in his final year, the Lakers will make so much off him that it's unfair to expect him to take such a drastic paycut.


I'm glad in his interview Jim made it clear that if Kobe returns it will be on the team's terms. I think that meant no more big paydays.

In truth, it's just a big mistake to re-sign him. Each year we put off the rebuild is another year lost. My guess is he'll see that he's not getting maxed again and retire. That's if he's able to finish the season healthy.


It's too bad really. I would love to see Kobe in a sixth man role (and actually embrace it). 20 mpg with the bench unit as a scorer and facilitator.


It's funny too because it would give Kobe a great deal of what he wants. He could come in and score away, not overly tax his body, not have to worry too much about defending, remain in the league, still retire a Laker. Just don't think he'd ever be up for it.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2015 12:39 pm    Post subject:

greenfrog wrote:
ocho wrote:
I'm glad in his interview Jim made it clear that if Kobe returns it will be on the team's terms. I think that meant no more big paydays.


I'd love to see the full context of that interview, but he didn't exactly lead off with that ultimatum when asked about Kobe like that. I'm not sure how much it's his choice alone either, but yeah, go Jim.


Quote:
"He just has to know, at that age, and that many miles on you, what is your role? We'll explain the role, and if he still wants to do that and that's how he wants to go out, that's fine with me."



That's about as strong a message you can send without being disrespectful. Note that it's not "we'll talk about a role". It's "we'll explain the role".
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2015 12:40 pm    Post subject:

ocho wrote:
24 wrote:
ocho wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
DoubleClutch wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Tony Anapolis wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Of course there are a variable of possible results, but I have a hard time seeing Kobe accept a deal under $15m (given new cap.


At the same I would not want to pay him a dollar over 15. Not saying he isnt deserving, but right now the future of the franchise is more important. Kobe got his money, Kobe gone be alright.


But Kobe will say that if it's his final year, the Lakers are going to make TONS of money on a Kobe farewell tour. He will make a business argument for paying him more than what he's worth on the court.

Possibly. Depends on if they can sell him on the idea of adding 1 or 2 max level players. At this point Kobe's current contract paid him far more than he has been worth. I can see him playing for $5-10 mil if he thinks they can get a guy like Durant to be the new star in LA.


I think we've been down that road of making Kobe take paycuts. I think he will have a legit argument that in his final year, the Lakers will make so much off him that it's unfair to expect him to take such a drastic paycut.


I'm glad in his interview Jim made it clear that if Kobe returns it will be on the team's terms. I think that meant no more big paydays.

In truth, it's just a big mistake to re-sign him. Each year we put off the rebuild is another year lost. My guess is he'll see that he's not getting maxed again and retire. That's if he's able to finish the season healthy.


It's too bad really. I would love to see Kobe in a sixth man role (and actually embrace it). 20 mpg with the bench unit as a scorer and facilitator.


It's funny too because it would give Kobe a great deal of what he wants. He could come in and score away, not overly tax his body, not have to worry too much about defending, remain in the league, still retire a Laker. Just don't think he'd ever be up for it.


Had he transitioned to this role a couple years ago, he would be in great shape to go after Kareem too.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2015 12:43 pm    Post subject:

Would Dr. Buss have been able to convince Kobe to have or to accept that 6th man role?
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2015 12:44 pm    Post subject:

ocho wrote:
greenfrog wrote:
ocho wrote:
I'm glad in his interview Jim made it clear that if Kobe returns it will be on the team's terms. I think that meant no more big paydays.


I'd love to see the full context of that interview, but he didn't exactly lead off with that ultimatum when asked about Kobe like that. I'm not sure how much it's his choice alone either, but yeah, go Jim.


Quote:
"He just has to know, at that age, and that many miles on you, what is your role? We'll explain the role, and if he still wants to do that and that's how he wants to go out, that's fine with me."



That's about as strong a message you can send without being disrespectful. Note that it's not "we'll talk about a role". It's "we'll explain the role".


Cool. Like I said, go get 'em Jim.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2015 12:44 pm    Post subject:

ocho wrote:
greenfrog wrote:
ocho wrote:
I'm glad in his interview Jim made it clear that if Kobe returns it will be on the team's terms. I think that meant no more big paydays.


I'd love to see the full context of that interview, but he didn't exactly lead off with that ultimatum when asked about Kobe like that. I'm not sure how much it's his choice alone either, but yeah, go Jim.


Quote:
"He just has to know, at that age, and that many miles on you, what is your role? We'll explain the role, and if he still wants to do that and that's how he wants to go out, that's fine with me."



That's about as strong a message you can send without being disrespectful. Note that it's not "we'll talk about a role". It's "we'll explain the role".


It is the perfect position really. We won't tell him when to retire, he's earned that, but we will dictate his role if here.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2015 12:55 pm    Post subject:

Where can our players rank in their respective positions:

C: Hibbert
PF: Bass, Randle
SF: Kobe, Young
SG: Clarkson, William
PG: Russell

Are they top 16 in the league, or top 8 in the west? Are we a playoff team talent wise?
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2015 12:57 pm    Post subject:

Sina wrote:
Where can our players rank in their respective positions:

C: Hibbert
PF: Bass, Randle
SF: Kobe, Young
SG: Clarkson, William
PG: Russell

Are they top 16 in the league, or top 8 in the west? Are we a playoff team talent wise?


Fantasy sports/numbers wise, or in terms of a cohesive basketball fit? I think perhaps yes to the first, no to the latter.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2015 1:00 pm    Post subject:

Sina wrote:
Are we a playoff team talent wise?


No.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2015 3:37 pm    Post subject:

Tony Anapolis wrote:
So does Kobe's hold mean we have to "officially" sign him first?

What was LBJ's cap hold last season? What he got?


I don't think it matters, I see Kobe (and Duncan) walking away after this season and the Lakes renouncing Kobe's salary.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2015 3:41 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Would Dr. Buss have been able to convince Kobe to have or to accept that 6th man role?


No one needs to convince him, just tell him his role and what you can pay and then the decisions are up to Kobe.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2015 4:33 am    Post subject:

24 wrote:
ocho wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
DoubleClutch wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Tony Anapolis wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Of course there are a variable of possible results, but I have a hard time seeing Kobe accept a deal under $15m (given new cap.


At the same I would not want to pay him a dollar over 15. Not saying he isnt deserving, but right now the future of the franchise is more important. Kobe got his money, Kobe gone be alright.


But Kobe will say that if it's his final year, the Lakers are going to make TONS of money on a Kobe farewell tour. He will make a business argument for paying him more than what he's worth on the court.

Possibly. Depends on if they can sell him on the idea of adding 1 or 2 max level players. At this point Kobe's current contract paid him far more than he has been worth. I can see him playing for $5-10 mil if he thinks they can get a guy like Durant to be the new star in LA.


I think we've been down that road of making Kobe take paycuts. I think he will have a legit argument that in his final year, the Lakers will make so much off him that it's unfair to expect him to take such a drastic paycut.


I'm glad in his interview Jim made it clear that if Kobe returns it will be on the team's terms. I think that meant no more big paydays.

In truth, it's just a big mistake to re-sign him. Each year we put off the rebuild is another year lost. My guess is he'll see that he's not getting maxed again and retire. That's if he's able to finish the season healthy.


It's too bad really. I would love to see Kobe in a sixth man role (and actually embrace it). 20 mpg with the bench unit as a scorer and facilitator.


That would be a solid solution if Kobe could embrace it. Not sure he is capable of buying into the plan though.

This year the role allows the young team to develop, If he decided to return next year with the new free agents and a more competitive team he has proven he can be a support player instead of "the man".

In the past I have made the comparison to what Ginobli does with the Spurs. Impact player at 22mpg. Been playing on reduced salary for a couple years now. If I remember correctly this year will be under $4M. Kobe has a blueprint to follow. Can he?
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2015 5:21 am    Post subject:

At best, I think Kobe would begrudgingly accept a Duncan/Dirk situation where he takes a paycut, but remains a starter. Not sure if he would dip way down to Dirk's paycut, as he can viably argue that the Lakers will profit tremendously from a Kobe farewell tour and that it's only fair for him to get a fair salary in return.

Taking a massive paycut and a massive reduction in role (i.e. 6th man) may prove too much for him.
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