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davidse
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 Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 10:34 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | Daphanabe wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Daphanabe wrote: | | Runway8 wrote: | | Dave20 wrote: | | He's been great this year and his value will never get any higher. |
Coming down to earth. If the Lakers aren't making the playoffs, I'd sell high. He or Nick. One of them has to be flipped for more future pieces. I had hopes of 5th through 7th seed, but I think those seeds are long gone. If the Lakers think there's value to making 8th and being Warriors fodder, then I guess go for it. But Lakers brass need to think long and hard now if a trade opportunity comes up. If we were going to be 5th, 6th or 7th, I'd say no way. Lets push this team. But 8 seems to be the only option, and I'm not so sure I want that more than a good trade for the future. |
We should trade both Nick and Lou. No better time as they've been playing better than they ever have, and a number of teams will be looking for final pieces as they position for the playoffs. We need to move to asset accumulation mode given the crappy CBA. |
So how does that help the team in their quest to make the playoffs? But DLO has been playing pretty good, Randle and Ingram as well. We could probably get some draft picks for them. Amirite? |
Hasty generalization on your part -- DLO, Randle, and Ingram are obviously part of the young core. Nick Young and Lou Will are not.
We are winning nothing in the next few years, so best to setup for when our young core are hitting their primes. By that time, neither Nick nor Lou will be here -- one expires this coming year and the other the next. Hopefully we don't hand out more insane contracts to 30 something journeymen, we already have Deng and Moz for that. So why not cash those chips in now for assets that will help add to our young core?
Is that so hard to understand? |
According to the FO Lou is part of the core. They have no interest in trading him, especially for more young players who need time to be acceptable NBA players. They can say it, you don't have to understand. |
And right after they said it, Lou was inserted to the starting lineup to begin the year because they were trying to.... showcase him for trade (and that's emplay's' words).
They can say whatever they want. your understanding needs to go deeper than that. |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 11:10 am Post subject: |
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Or we can just observe what happens.
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davidse
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| Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 11:33 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | Or we can just observe what happens. |
And shut down the site too.
Just read the news. you have no intentions of actually forming an opinion other than rehashing what the Lakers do or say, so why waste your time ? |
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Dave20
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| Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2016 9:15 am Post subject: |
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| The way Lou is playing now he could get the team a 1st round pick in return. There's plenty of teams that needs scoring. |
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justsomelakerfan
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| Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2016 10:50 am Post subject: |
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| Dave20 wrote: | | The way Lou is playing now he could get the team a 1st round pick in return. There's plenty of teams that needs scoring. |
I'm really curious as to what his trade value is right now. I highly, highly doubt Luke would approve of trading him... in which case, if we're by the deadline and playoffs look unlikely, Mitch just pull the trigger.
Steering the conversation back to Lou's trade value... what kind of a 1st rounder does he get? He's not going to get a lotto pick in this draft, that's for sure. Teams are really going to value those 1st round picks.
Washington and Detroit could use what Lou brings to a team, and they pick 12th and 13th. They're not going to surrender that pick for Lou.
Chicago picks 17th. They'd probably want JC over Lou, and I doubt either gets it done. I don't really know how their value translates as draft picks. Milwaukee picks 19th. OKC picks 22nd. Hmmm.
Everyone after those teams, I don't think they really need a player like Lou.
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2016 10:52 am Post subject: |
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We would get a first rounder that, hopefully, in 4-5 years might give us 75% of what Lou gives us now.
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justsomelakerfan
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| Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2016 10:54 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | We would get a first rounder that, hopefully, in 4-5 years might give us 75% of what Lou gives us now. |
The most important thing to the Lakers' future right now is getting more draft picks in the new CBA. Lou isn't a part of the Lakers' future unless they're still looking close to the playoff picture this season by February.
In 4-5 years you hope this core of players is contending. Lou is an old man in 4-5 years.
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2016 10:57 am Post subject: |
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| justsomelakerfan wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | We would get a first rounder that, hopefully, in 4-5 years might give us 75% of what Lou gives us now. |
The most important thing to the Lakers' future right now is getting more draft picks in the new CBA. Lou isn't a part of the Lakers' future unless they're still looking close to the playoff picture this season by February.
In 4-5 years you hope this core of players is contending. Lou is an old man in 4-5 years. |
Lou is part of the Laker's future, and the most important thing for the Laker's future is to win ball games. That takes a balance of youth and vets. I know fantasy sports are fun, I participate myself, but the Laker FO is relying on reality. A bird in the hand is more valuable than two in the bush.
Where does it stop? We will have to pay Randle top dollar soon, with the new CBA do we deal him for future picks? Then DLO? Followed by Ingram? Or do you reach a point where you plant your feet and try to build something? That is the point the Lakers are at.
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justsomelakerfan
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| Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2016 11:19 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | justsomelakerfan wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | We would get a first rounder that, hopefully, in 4-5 years might give us 75% of what Lou gives us now. |
The most important thing to the Lakers' future right now is getting more draft picks in the new CBA. Lou isn't a part of the Lakers' future unless they're still looking close to the playoff picture this season by February.
In 4-5 years you hope this core of players is contending. Lou is an old man in 4-5 years. |
Lou is part of the Laker's future, and the most important thing for the Laker's future is to win ball games. That takes a balance of youth and vets. I know fantasy sports are fun, I participate myself, but the Laker FO is relying on reality. A bird in the hand is more valuable than two in the bush.
Where does it stop? We will have to pay Randle top dollar soon, with the new CBA do we deal him for future picks? Then DLO? Followed by Ingram? Or do you reach a point where you plant your feet and try to build something? That is the point the Lakers are at. |
I really understand where you're coming from. I'm not advocating tanking when I say that it's a good idea to sell high on Lou, FWIW. I believe in the value of learning how to win games for a young team for sure.
Here's the thing. The Lakers have most likely played themselves out of their lotto pick this season. Every rebuilding team is going to get another leg up on the Lakers this draft... and in a market where it's more important than ever to draft your own superstars, the Lakers compare well on this date in time. But they won't compare well the day after this year's draft. Think of it this way.
Lakers have maybe two stars down the road, maybe a superstar or two.
Suns have at least one star down the road, and he's maybe a superstar.
The Timberwolves have three stars down the road, maybe three superstars.
Denver has at least one or two stars down the road, maybe a superstar.
All of the bolded teams are going to add another pick who could lift their franchise further ahead of the Lakers right now, outside of the Wolves... who are already ahead of the team in terms of drafted likely superstars.
Any chances the Lakers can get of adding ways not to lose footing with these rebuilding teams, they have to bite on it.
In conclusion, I don't think it's the point where they're ready to plant their feet yet. But they're close.
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2016 11:24 am Post subject: |
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They are keeping that last max cap space open in case they can target a player they want. And if someone blew their socks off with a deal for Lou they would more than likely pull the trigger. But they have their core they are building around, and that core is looking much better as a unit than the others you mentioned. Maybe the mix of vets is the difference, who knows.
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2016 11:26 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | We would get a first rounder that, hopefully, in 4-5 years might give us 75% of what Lou gives us now. |
Yeah. I don't mind keeping him around. From all reports, the young guys really like him as a vet and listen to him when he speaks. Is a good locker room presence.
#ThingsINeverThoughtI'dSay.
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2016 11:27 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | They are keeping that last max cap space open in case they can target a player they want. And if someone blew their socks off with a deal for Lou they would more than likely pull the trigger. But they have their core they are building around, and that core is looking much better as a unit than the others you mentioned. Maybe the mix of vets is the difference, who knows. |
Not sure if we have enough cap space for more than a 0-6 year max player. Would have to dump a few players to have enough for 7-9 year max player.
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davidse
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| Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2016 11:49 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | We would get a first rounder that, hopefully, in 4-5 years might give us 75% of what Lou gives us now. |
So that would be 75% Lou on a team making a title run vs. 0% Lou on a team making a title run.
How on earth are we expected to know what the right move here is ?
How ??? |
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davidse
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| Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2016 11:55 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | They are keeping that last max cap space open in case they can target a player they want. And if someone blew their socks off with a deal for Lou they would more than likely pull the trigger. But they have their core they are building around, and that core is looking much better as a unit than the others you mentioned. Maybe the mix of vets is the difference, who knows. |
They don't have their core, and they know it - even if you can't seem to grasp it.
Take the Clippers - they have what, 3 players who are top 5 in their positions in the nba ? probably higher than that on average ?
And another guy at least on Clarkson's level in Reddick ?
All in their prime.
And where has all of that got them ?
You want to think the Lakers are gullible enough to think that the Russell/Ingram/Randle "core" is even comparable to that team - that HASN'T really come close to what the Lakers hope to ultimately achieve ?
Or that this young core is better than what several other young up and coming teams have (or will have) a few years down the road ?
If that's the case, then your constant blind support of the front office has just described them as complete fools.
And despite a couple of mistakes - these guys are not delusional fools. |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2016 12:15 pm Post subject: |
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| davidse wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | They are keeping that last max cap space open in case they can target a player they want. And if someone blew their socks off with a deal for Lou they would more than likely pull the trigger. But they have their core they are building around, and that core is looking much better as a unit than the others you mentioned. Maybe the mix of vets is the difference, who knows. |
They don't have their core, and they know it - even if you can't seem to grasp it.
Take the Clippers - they have what, 3 players who are top 5 in their positions in the nba ? probably higher than that on average ?
And another guy at least on Clarkson's level in Reddick ?
All in their prime.
And where has all of that got them ?
You want to think the Lakers are gullible enough to think that the Russell/Ingram/Randle "core" is even comparable to that team - that HASN'T really come close to what the Lakers hope to ultimately achieve ?
Or that this young core is better than what several other young up and coming teams have (or will have) a few years down the road ?
If that's the case, then your constant blind support of the front office has just described them as complete fools.
And despite a couple of mistakes - these guys are not delusional fools. |
Wow, talk about putting words in someone else's mouth and then criticizing them for it. Horrible argument, totally laughable.
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davidse
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| Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2016 12:39 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | davidse wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | They are keeping that last max cap space open in case they can target a player they want. And if someone blew their socks off with a deal for Lou they would more than likely pull the trigger. But they have their core they are building around, and that core is looking much better as a unit than the others you mentioned. Maybe the mix of vets is the difference, who knows. |
They don't have their core, and they know it - even if you can't seem to grasp it.
Take the Clippers - they have what, 3 players who are top 5 in their positions in the nba ? probably higher than that on average ?
And another guy at least on Clarkson's level in Reddick ?
All in their prime.
And where has all of that got them ?
You want to think the Lakers are gullible enough to think that the Russell/Ingram/Randle "core" is even comparable to that team - that HASN'T really come close to what the Lakers hope to ultimately achieve ?
Or that this young core is better than what several other young up and coming teams have (or will have) a few years down the road ?
If that's the case, then your constant blind support of the front office has just described them as complete fools.
And despite a couple of mistakes - these guys are not delusional fools. |
Wow, talk about putting words in someone else's mouth and then criticizing them for it. Horrible argument, totally laughable. |
So you're saying the Lakers think they have "their core they're building around" (your words), but they do not believe that core can win them nba titles ?
Cause unless you're saying that, then you basically are saying that the Lakers believe that this core will yield better results than what Paul/Griffin/Jordan/Reddick have - which is what I wrote.
It's either one or the other, because this isn't putting words in your mouth - this IS what you wrote...
"They have their core they are building around"
While some of us keep arguing that this core is not enough, any effort must be made to add to that YOUNG core, and that the Lakers know it too. |
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Dr. Funkbot
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| Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2016 3:31 pm Post subject: |
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Lou Wil is a core Laker. I don't want to see him shipped unless it is for someone really good.
He is the next Jamal Crawford. He is instant offense, he is healthy and he seems to be only getting better. Plus he is a very underrated playmaker. He is setting up Mozzer and Nance for dunks and he is getting very good at getting steals in the passing lanes due to his quickness.
On top of all of that, he has a very very good contract. He is staying.
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Halflife
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| Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2016 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Dr. Funkbot wrote: | Lou Wil is a core Laker. I don't want to see him shipped unless it is for someone really good.
He is the next Jamal Crawford. He is instant offense, he is healthy and he seems to be only getting better. Plus he is a very underrated playmaker. He is setting up Mozzer and Nance for dunks and he is getting very good at getting steals in the passing lanes due to his quickness.
On top of all of that, he has a very very good contract. He is staying. |
Agree. |
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pio2u
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| Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2016 10:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Solid second half by Lou. Too bad he missed his last shot, we needed it. |
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Vesper
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| Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 8:41 am Post subject: |
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Honestly, I rather keep LouWIll and NickYoung and trade Jordan Clarkson.
Both LouWill and Young are young 30s. |
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tox
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| Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 1:02 pm Post subject: |
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| SGV-Laker fan wrote: | | for those of you think Lou's value is at all time high think about this though. sure Lou's having a career year and you would think some contenders would love to have him coming off the bench. but that is only true on paper, none of the contending teams are playing iso style even when their bench gets in. and iso is the only way Lou will be effective. so i don't think Lou would get us anything valuable in return even though he's having a career year, his style of play is just not going to fit with any of the contending team. |
Lou is literally one of the best pick and roll players in the league. Remind me if this is a pick and roll-based league or not? I seem to have forgotten. |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 1:06 pm Post subject: |
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| tox wrote: | | SGV-Laker fan wrote: | | for those of you think Lou's value is at all time high think about this though. sure Lou's having a career year and you would think some contenders would love to have him coming off the bench. but that is only true on paper, none of the contending teams are playing iso style even when their bench gets in. and iso is the only way Lou will be effective. so i don't think Lou would get us anything valuable in return even though he's having a career year, his style of play is just not going to fit with any of the contending team. |
Lou is literally one of the best pick and roll players in the league. Remind me if this is a pick and roll-based league or not? I seem to have forgotten. |
Also excellent spotting up or off cuts or in transition.
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justsomelakerfan
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| Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2016 2:15 pm Post subject: |
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Totally separate to my preference of trading Lou for a pick, just a thought I had:
Are Nick and Lou's play so far holding back opportunities we could hand the keys to D'Angelo instead? Or rather, is Luke's tendency to rely on Nick and Lou holding back D'Angelo?
I don't know the answer, and this could be a dumb question. But it's just a thought. Just trying to piece together minutes distribution and the best way to develop the young guys this season.
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greenfrog
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LakerLanny
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| Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2016 4:04 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | We would get a first rounder that, hopefully, in 4-5 years might give us 75% of what Lou gives us now. |
Yeah. I don't mind keeping him around. From all reports, the young guys really like him as a vet and listen to him when he speaks. Is a good locker room presence.
#ThingsINeverThoughtI'dSay. |
You do whatever works best for the team.
If you can get a sucker team to overpay for him, you do that.
Otherwise, you ride him as he is in his prime and you have him for a good price.
But everyone on this team is tradeable in my mind if the right deal appears. There are no untouchables except maybe Ingram.
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