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Palin
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Joined: 26 Feb 2008
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 Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 10:52 am Post subject: |
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| We need Clippers vs Mavs in Xmas. |
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Palin
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Joined: 26 Feb 2008
Posts: 1808
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| Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 10:57 am Post subject: |
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| If they lose Mavs will tank and probably back out from matthews deal. |
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AllorNothing
Franchise Player
Joined: 08 Oct 2001
Posts: 18448
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| Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 11:02 am Post subject: |
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| That means one less contender for last playoff spot for the lakers. |
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chubby_1_kenobi
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Joined: 24 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 11:10 am Post subject: |
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Ok, if Jordan is allowed to go back to the Clips, it could be a precedent for some bush league power play during free agency.
Say I'm Kevin Durant and there's one team in the league that I just can't beat to win the ring. During free agency, I'll call that team say that I'll be willing to sign if they clear enough cap space, spread the news to everyone so it sounds legit.
That one team will start trading their own players for space because the prospect of getting Kevin Durant is too enticing too pass up.
Right before the moratorium period is lifted, I backed out and re-sign with OKC. Poof! Major playoff obstacle is gone.
_________________
Eighth grade key phrases are crucial tools for this type of subterfuge: "team player", "make teammates better", "ballhog", "selfish", "court vision": all dripping with sanctimony and defamation. |
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lakersken80
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Joined: 12 Aug 2009
Posts: 38776
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| Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 11:20 am Post subject: |
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| chubby_1_kenobi wrote: | Ok, if Jordan is allowed to go back to the Clips, it could be a precedent for some bush league power play during free agency.
Say I'm Kevin Durant and there's one team in the league that I just can't beat to win the ring. During free agency, I'll call that team say that I'll be willing to sign if they clear enough cap space, spread the news to everyone so it sounds legit.
That one team will start trading their own players for space because the prospect of getting Kevin Durant is too enticing too pass up.
Right before the moratorium period is lifted, I backed out and re-sign with OKC. Poof! Major playoff obstacle is gone. |
Its happening already though....Houston did it with their failed Chris Bosh acquisitiion, mind you losing Asik and Lin weren't really critical to their future. |
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frijolero01
Franchise Player
Joined: 10 May 2005
Posts: 13324
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| Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 11:21 am Post subject: |
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| etmo wrote: | | frijolero01 wrote: | | etmo wrote: | | frijolero01 wrote: | | etmo wrote: | | frijolero01 wrote: | | AllorNothing wrote: | | chubby_1_kenobi wrote: | | He can't do that, can he? There's gotta be a provision protecting teams from this kind of shenanigans. |
What shenanigans? He hasn't signed yet. |
just because he hasn't signed any document doesn't mean that a verbal agreement isn't binding. This is a total childish and (bleep) move by DJ. |
Totally agree with the first part, but the second part is crazy. What did DJ do wrong?
First, either the verbal agreements are binding or they are not. Texas and California state law may apply, depending on many factors. NBA rules will have a say in this.
If the agreements are binding, then why is this called a moratorium period?
If the agreements are not binding, why allow them?
One thing for sure: You can bet there are two tech-billionaire owners who are going to fight tooth-and-nail over this one. Both with open wallets, and huge egos. I'll bet the NBA legal staff is getting screamed at by both sides right now  |
It's very unethical and looks very bad despite being legally allowed to change his mind. As a man, when you give your word on something, you don't go back. Still a (bleep) move. |
What makes you think he went back on his word? |
did he not agree to join the mavs? Now that the mavs have cleared up their cap room he wants to change his mind. If he does, what do the mavs do now that all the FAs are gone? |
Maybe you have more information that I do. Are we sure he wants to change his mind? Did DJ release a statement that he's going back to the Clips?
| activeverb wrote: | During the moratorium, the NBA and players association are auditing the books to determine the exact salary cap figures for the upcoming season. Until you have those numbers, you can't know the max salaries or how much cap space each team has.
They've done it this way for more than a decade. |
Yes, but if the agreements are not binding, why allow players to come to agreements? Why not just specify that players cannot come to any agreements? |
You kidding? Have you read the tweets, heard the stories that DJ supposedly said that he "made a mistake"
I'm not looking at this from a legal standpoint. Let's stop looking at it this way. I'm not asking for Cuban to sue or, the league to intervene. Legally he can do whatever the hell he wants.
I'm saying that it's still dishonorable, cowardice, and could supposedly set a very bad precedent in the league with other future FA's backing out during the moratorium period. He made an agreement, albeit verbally, to join the mavs.
Last edited by frijolero01 on Wed Jul 08, 2015 11:24 am; edited 1 time in total |
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etmo
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Joined: 21 Nov 2009
Posts: 176
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| Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 11:23 am Post subject: |
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| chubby_1_kenobi wrote: | Ok, if Jordan is allowed to go back to the Clips, it could be a precedent for some bush league power play during free agency.
Say I'm Kevin Durant and there's one team in the league that I just can't beat to win the ring. During free agency, I'll call that team say that I'll be willing to sign if they clear enough cap space, spread the news to everyone so it sounds legit.
That one team will start trading their own players for space because the prospect of getting Kevin Durant is too enticing too pass up.
Right before the moratorium period is lifted, I backed out and re-sign with OKC. Poof! Major playoff obstacle is gone. |
Interesting example. I wonder if it could be done with sufficient subtlety so as to avoid the League coming down on your head like a ton of bricks.
If the League office felt you had done this intentionally, they would void all those trades and fine you every penny you were going to earn, or maybe kick you out of the NBA for a few years. |
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lakersken80
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Joined: 12 Aug 2009
Posts: 38776
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| Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 11:25 am Post subject: |
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| Lakerfan 4 Life wrote: | | DeAndre could bust a Carlos Boozer here. Verbally agreed to re-signing with the Cavs but at the last minute, he signed with the Jazz. |
Playing with JJ Barea or Lin will not give him the same scoring opportunities that somebody like CP3 can afford him. |
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frijolero01
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Joined: 10 May 2005
Posts: 13324
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| Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 11:26 am Post subject: |
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| chubby_1_kenobi wrote: | Ok, if Jordan is allowed to go back to the Clips, it could be a precedent for some bush league power play during free agency.
Say I'm Kevin Durant and there's one team in the league that I just can't beat to win the ring. During free agency, I'll call that team say that I'll be willing to sign if they clear enough cap space, spread the news to everyone so it sounds legit.
That one team will start trading their own players for space because the prospect of getting Kevin Durant is too enticing too pass up.
Right before the moratorium period is lifted, I backed out and re-sign with OKC. Poof! Major playoff obstacle is gone. |
excellent post. Very good example. It could very well set a bad precedent. Kind of like flopping. One person did it, now it's actually a skill that one has in the league. Pretty soon, they'll keep stats on it. |
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etmo
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Joined: 21 Nov 2009
Posts: 176
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| Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 11:31 am Post subject: |
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| frijolero01 wrote: | | etmo wrote: | | frijolero01 wrote: | | etmo wrote: | | frijolero01 wrote: | | etmo wrote: | | frijolero01 wrote: | | AllorNothing wrote: | | chubby_1_kenobi wrote: | | He can't do that, can he? There's gotta be a provision protecting teams from this kind of shenanigans. |
What shenanigans? He hasn't signed yet. |
just because he hasn't signed any document doesn't mean that a verbal agreement isn't binding. This is a total childish and (bleep) move by DJ. |
Totally agree with the first part, but the second part is crazy. What did DJ do wrong?
First, either the verbal agreements are binding or they are not. Texas and California state law may apply, depending on many factors. NBA rules will have a say in this.
If the agreements are binding, then why is this called a moratorium period?
If the agreements are not binding, why allow them?
One thing for sure: You can bet there are two tech-billionaire owners who are going to fight tooth-and-nail over this one. Both with open wallets, and huge egos. I'll bet the NBA legal staff is getting screamed at by both sides right now |
It's very unethical and looks very bad despite being legally allowed to change his mind. As a man, when you give your word on something, you don't go back. Still a (bleep) move. |
What makes you think he went back on his word? |
did he not agree to join the mavs? Now that the mavs have cleared up their cap room he wants to change his mind. If he does, what do the mavs do now that all the FAs are gone? |
Maybe you have more information that I do. Are we sure he wants to change his mind? Did DJ release a statement that he's going back to the Clips?
| activeverb wrote: | During the moratorium, the NBA and players association are auditing the books to determine the exact salary cap figures for the upcoming season. Until you have those numbers, you can't know the max salaries or how much cap space each team has.
They've done it this way for more than a decade. |
Yes, but if the agreements are not binding, why allow players to come to agreements? Why not just specify that players cannot come to any agreements? |
You kidding? Have you read the tweets, heard the stories that DJ supposedly said that he "made a mistake"
I'm not looking at this from a legal standpoint. Let's stop looking at it this way. I'm not asking for Cuban to sue or, the league to intervene. Legally he can do whatever the hell he wants.
I'm saying that it's still dishonorable, cowardice, and could supposedly set a very bad precedent in the league with other future FA's backing out during the moratorium period. He made an agreement, albeit verbally, to join the mavs. |
Agreed on the legal part, but I still can't find any links where DJ is saying, "I'm going back to the Clippers". If he says that, we agree. Until then, you're insulting him for something he hasn't done, AFAICT. Put up some of these links which make that claim, please -- I can't find any. |
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SOLakerFan
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Joined: 02 Jan 2009
Posts: 344
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| Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 11:36 am Post subject: |
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I know people will think less of DJ if he goes back on his word, but I do believe that both players and owners have in the past been guilty of reneging g on verbal agreements. See Robert Horry.
| frijolero01 wrote: | | chubby_1_kenobi wrote: | Ok, if Jordan is allowed to go back to the Clips, it could be a precedent for some bush league power play during free agency.
Say I'm Kevin Durant and there's one team in the league that I just can't beat to win the ring. During free agency, I'll call that team say that I'll be willing to sign if they clear enough cap space, spread the news to everyone so it sounds legit.
That one team will start trading their own players for space because the prospect of getting Kevin Durant is too enticing too pass up.
Right before the moratorium period is lifted, I backed out and re-sign with OKC. Poof! Major playoff obstacle is gone. |
excellent post. Very good example. It could very well set a bad precedent. Kind of like flopping. One person did it, now it's actually a skill that one has in the league. Pretty soon, they'll keep stats on it. |
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lakersken80
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Joined: 12 Aug 2009
Posts: 38776
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| Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 11:38 am Post subject: |
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| Carlos Boozer pulled the same stunt years ago, he still had an NBA job last season. As long as NBA teams have to fill a need a certain player might possess they won't stop having their share of suitors. |
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markjay
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Joined: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 3921
Location: O.C.
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| Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 11:40 am Post subject: |
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Yikes. Are the Clippers sure they even want this guy?
@michaeleaves: Source says that DJ has been emotionally tormented by this decision. A video commissioned by team had him crying during initial meeting. |
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Theseus
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Joined: 15 Dec 2007
Posts: 14166
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| Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 11:55 am Post subject: |
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| Signing with the spurs for the minimum |
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activeverb
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Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 37470
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| Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 11:57 am Post subject: |
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| lakersken80 wrote: | | chubby_1_kenobi wrote: | Ok, if Jordan is allowed to go back to the Clips, it could be a precedent for some bush league power play during free agency.
Say I'm Kevin Durant and there's one team in the league that I just can't beat to win the ring. During free agency, I'll call that team say that I'll be willing to sign if they clear enough cap space, spread the news to everyone so it sounds legit.
That one team will start trading their own players for space because the prospect of getting Kevin Durant is too enticing too pass up.
Right before the moratorium period is lifted, I backed out and re-sign with OKC. Poof! Major playoff obstacle is gone. |
Its happening already though....Houston did it with their failed Chris Bosh acquisitiion, mind you losing Asik and Lin weren't really critical to their future. |
Practically speaking, I don't see the Durant situation as described actuallybecoming an issue. The real risk in these situations isn't that superstars will do some nefarious strategy, but that they are emotional and will change their minds or string teams along because they like to be courted. |
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chubby_1_kenobi
Star Player
Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 1450
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| Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 12:06 pm Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | chubby_1_kenobi wrote: | Ok, if Jordan is allowed to go back to the Clips, it could be a precedent for some bush league power play during free agency.
Say I'm Kevin Durant and there's one team in the league that I just can't beat to win the ring. During free agency, I'll call that team say that I'll be willing to sign if they clear enough cap space, spread the news to everyone so it sounds legit.
That one team will start trading their own players for space because the prospect of getting Kevin Durant is too enticing too pass up.
Right before the moratorium period is lifted, I backed out and re-sign with OKC. Poof! Major playoff obstacle is gone. |
Its happening already though....Houston did it with their failed Chris Bosh acquisitiion, mind you losing Asik and Lin weren't really critical to their future. |
Practically speaking, I don't see the Durant situation as described actuallybecoming an issue. The real risk in these situations isn't that superstars will do some nefarious strategy, but that they are emotional and will change their minds or string teams along because they like to be courted. |
The likelihood of DJ doing this on purpose is probably nill but the result is the same. Effectively, he persuaded Dallas to let Chandler go to make room for him.
_________________
Eighth grade key phrases are crucial tools for this type of subterfuge: "team player", "make teammates better", "ballhog", "selfish", "court vision": all dripping with sanctimony and defamation. |
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Lowest Merion
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Joined: 22 Jun 2010
Posts: 10720
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| Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 12:06 pm Post subject: |
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| lakersken80 wrote: | | Carlos Boozer pulled the same stunt years ago. |
Yep. This is by no means unprecedented. Boozer verbally committed to the Cavs and proceeded to stab a blind owner, Gund, in the back, and bolted to Utah. It was pre LBJ, so I think we're talking about ten years ago. Elton Brand pretty much did the same thing. |
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Steve007
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Joined: 21 Jul 2006
Posts: 13221
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| Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 12:07 pm Post subject: |
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| markjay wrote: | Yikes. Are the Clippers sure they even want this guy?
@michaeleaves: Source says that DJ has been emotionally tormented by this decision. A video commissioned by team had him crying during initial meeting. |
They absolutely should want him. I think it makes less sense for Dallas to want him. The Clippers don't have another center and they were talking to scrubs when they were looking for a replacement.
DJ leaving the Clippers is arguably worse than Dwight leaving LA because Blake and CP3 are in their primes. It is easier for me to say that now though because Kobe has been injured so much in the past two years. |
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Star
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Joined: 01 Aug 2004
Posts: 1564
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| Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 12:40 pm Post subject: |
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Everyone is misunderstanding the actual rules involved here.
Teams and players are not allowed to actually agree to any terms during the moratorium. It doesn't stop the news from coming out. There is a reason why the league fined Cuban for talking about Deandre. Officially, there can't be any sort of agreement between a team and a player.
So Mavs have no recourse here. According to the CBA, there could not have been a verbal agreement between deandre and the mavs. If there was, they would be in violation of the CBA. |
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Aeneas Hunter
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Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 31763
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| Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 12:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Lowest Merion wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | Carlos Boozer pulled the same stunt years ago. |
Yep. This is by no means unprecedented. Boozer verbally committed to the Cavs and proceeded to stab a blind owner, Gund, in the back, and bolted to Utah. It was pre LBJ, so I think we're talking about ten years ago. Elton Brand pretty much did the same thing. |
Boozer was worse. He got the Cavs to pass on their option and let him become a free agent, then signed with the Jazz. Then he started looking for ways to get out of Utah. |
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etmo
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| Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 12:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Star wrote: | Everyone is misunderstanding the actual rules involved here.
Teams and players are not allowed to actually agree to any terms during the moratorium. It doesn't stop the news from coming out. There is a reason why the league fined Cuban for talking about Deandre. Officially, there can't be any sort of agreement between a team and a player.
So Mavs have no recourse here. According to the CBA, there could not have been a verbal agreement between deandre and the mavs. If there was, they would be in violation of the CBA. |
OK, thanks. This is what I was wondering. All this talk in the media of verbal agreements had me thinking they were an actual thing -- that's what I get for thinking the media knows anything whatsoever.
From the CBAFAQ:
| Quote: |
Note: During the July Moratorium (see question number 104), teams may not enter into verbal or written agreements. Therefore any agreements that are struck during the moratorium are still characterized as negotiations, and do not count toward team salary. |
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thehotsung8701A
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| Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 12:54 pm Post subject: |
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Finally some good news!!!
Dallas is screw, and now it easier for the Lakers to get a playoff spot. Though it kind of piss me that we could have gotten Rolo.
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kaoss128
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Joined: 09 Apr 2006
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Location: Morgantown, WV
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| Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 12:57 pm Post subject: |
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| The twitter emoji war that's been going on has been hilarious. |
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activeverb
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| Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 12:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Star wrote: | Teams and players are not allowed to actually agree to any terms during the moratorium.
So Mavs have no recourse here. According to the CBA, there could not have been a verbal agreement between deandre and the mavs. If there was, they would be in violation of the CBA. |
I don't believe this is true.
Teams can agree, "We will sign you for the max salary once we find out what the max is."
They simply don't know the exact amount until the cap is set.
But I believe you can sign someone during the moratorium to the minimum salary, because the cap amount doesn't affect that. |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 1:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Lakerfan 4 Life wrote: | | DeAndre could bust a Carlos Boozer here. Verbally agreed to re-signing with the Cavs but at the last minute, he signed with the Jazz. |
That's not what happened. That wasn't the Boozer controversy. |
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