2015-16 X's and O's Discussion
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NeeJee
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2015 2:59 pm    Post subject:

24 wrote:
It is very analogous to the offense where we have a plan for one leg of the set, and then... nothing.

Seriously! We run a decent-looking set, where there's decent player and ball movement, then we end up in iso's.....wtf?
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A Mad Chinaman
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2015 8:36 pm    Post subject:

24 wrote:
NeeJee wrote:
bonkers wrote:
Probably a broad question, but what is the key reason, from an X's and O's standpoint, that we are doing so poorly on defense?
From my observation, our defense seems to break down often whenever we switch on p&r's. Switching on p&r's with perimeter players is just fine, but whenever you start to switch with your C's and PF's, that's where mismatches form. I don't even want to know how many dunks and layups we gave up to Denver off of p&r's. Our p&r defense last night gave me a headache. It seemed that even when they switched on p&r's, Denver still got dunks and layups! Isn't switching on p&r's supposed to help prevent that? I don't get it.
Secondary rotations also stink. When we make the first rotation well, and the offense moves the ball, we rotate poorly to that.
From the media pundits, it appears that they are saying that our coverage of the player that is rolling to the basket is non-existent. Appearances provide the impression that they are late and/or not exact in their P&R coverage and they are not playing D for the full 24 seconds at full efficiency. The common phrase that they are not playing "On a String" seems very appropriate an accurate.

They do not seem to embrace the Mark Jackson saying: Hands Down, Man Down.

Team appears to be working hard going through the motion of playing the "right" defense. They look like students that practice well but when it comes to reality of playing against other teams - they don't have that mental edge to be effective.

They need to have MWP (only player with a well-deserved reputation/respect as a defender) to be a mentor on the floor by being an example, otherwise they are practicing bad habits in actual games.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2015 10:34 am    Post subject:

A Mad Chinaman wrote:
24 wrote:
NeeJee wrote:
bonkers wrote:
Probably a broad question, but what is the key reason, from an X's and O's standpoint, that we are doing so poorly on defense?
From my observation, our defense seems to break down often whenever we switch on p&r's. Switching on p&r's with perimeter players is just fine, but whenever you start to switch with your C's and PF's, that's where mismatches form. I don't even want to know how many dunks and layups we gave up to Denver off of p&r's. Our p&r defense last night gave me a headache. It seemed that even when they switched on p&r's, Denver still got dunks and layups! Isn't switching on p&r's supposed to help prevent that? I don't get it.
Secondary rotations also stink. When we make the first rotation well, and the offense moves the ball, we rotate poorly to that.
From the media pundits, it appears that they are saying that our coverage of the player that is rolling to the basket is non-existent. Appearances provide the impression that they are late and/or not exact in their P&R coverage and they are not playing D for the full 24 seconds at full efficiency. The common phrase that they are not playing "On a String" seems very appropriate an accurate.

They do not seem to embrace the Mark Jackson saying: Hands Down, Man Down.

Team appears to be working hard going through the motion of playing the "right" defense. They look like students that practice well but when it comes to reality of playing against other teams - they don't have that mental edge to be effective.

They need to have MWP (only player with a well-deserved reputation/respect as a defender) to be a mentor on the floor by being an example, otherwise they are practicing bad habits in actual games.

Byron's defensive strategies seem to switch on seemingly every possible opportunity, instead of fighting through screens to get back to their assignments. Big-on-small mismatches are common in all of the games so far this year.
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A Mad Chinaman
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2015 10:59 am    Post subject:

NeeJee wrote:
A Mad Chinaman wrote:
24 wrote:
NeeJee wrote:
bonkers wrote:
Probably a broad question, but what is the key reason, from an X's and O's standpoint, that we are doing so poorly on defense?
From my observation, our defense seems to break down often whenever we switch on p&r's. Switching on p&r's with perimeter players is just fine, but whenever you start to switch with your C's and PF's, that's where mismatches form. I don't even want to know how many dunks and layups we gave up to Denver off of p&r's. Our p&r defense last night gave me a headache. It seemed that even when they switched on p&r's, Denver still got dunks and layups! Isn't switching on p&r's supposed to help prevent that? I don't get it.
Secondary rotations also stink. When we make the first rotation well, and the offense moves the ball, we rotate poorly to that.
From the media pundits, it appears that they are saying that our coverage of the player that is rolling to the basket is non-existent. Appearances provide the impression that they are late and/or not exact in their P&R coverage and they are not playing D for the full 24 seconds at full efficiency. The common phrase that they are not playing "On a String" seems very appropriate an accurate.

They do not seem to embrace the Mark Jackson saying: Hands Down, Man Down.

Team appears to be working hard going through the motion of playing the "right" defense. They look like students that practice well but when it comes to reality of playing against other teams - they don't have that mental edge to be effective.

They need to have MWP (only player with a well-deserved reputation/respect as a defender) to be a mentor on the floor by being an example, otherwise they are practicing bad habits in actual games.

Byron's defensive strategies seem to switch on seemingly every possible opportunity, instead of fighting through screens to get back to their assignments. Big-on-small mismatches are common in all of the games so far this year.
They seem to try to double-team mismatches then ask the defender to quickly recover.

Many times their confusion on whether to go under or over gives the appearance that they are switching when they are either slow or inefficient that has led to many "clean" path directly to the basket by the oppositin
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NeeJee
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2015 2:06 pm    Post subject:

A Mad Chinaman wrote:
NeeJee wrote:
A Mad Chinaman wrote:
24 wrote:
NeeJee wrote:
bonkers wrote:
Probably a broad question, but what is the key reason, from an X's and O's standpoint, that we are doing so poorly on defense?
From my observation, our defense seems to break down often whenever we switch on p&r's. Switching on p&r's with perimeter players is just fine, but whenever you start to switch with your C's and PF's, that's where mismatches form. I don't even want to know how many dunks and layups we gave up to Denver off of p&r's. Our p&r defense last night gave me a headache. It seemed that even when they switched on p&r's, Denver still got dunks and layups! Isn't switching on p&r's supposed to help prevent that? I don't get it.
Secondary rotations also stink. When we make the first rotation well, and the offense moves the ball, we rotate poorly to that.
From the media pundits, it appears that they are saying that our coverage of the player that is rolling to the basket is non-existent. Appearances provide the impression that they are late and/or not exact in their P&R coverage and they are not playing D for the full 24 seconds at full efficiency. The common phrase that they are not playing "On a String" seems very appropriate an accurate.

They do not seem to embrace the Mark Jackson saying: Hands Down, Man Down.

Team appears to be working hard going through the motion of playing the "right" defense. They look like students that practice well but when it comes to reality of playing against other teams - they don't have that mental edge to be effective.

They need to have MWP (only player with a well-deserved reputation/respect as a defender) to be a mentor on the floor by being an example, otherwise they are practicing bad habits in actual games.

Byron's defensive strategies seem to switch on seemingly every possible opportunity, instead of fighting through screens to get back to their assignments. Big-on-small mismatches are common in all of the games so far this year.
They seem to try to double-team mismatches then ask the defender to quickly recover.

Many times their confusion on whether to go under or over gives the appearance that they are switching when they are either slow or inefficient that has led to many "clean" path directly to the basket by the oppositin

Confusion is a great word. They just seem to always have to scramble. I really hope Byron doesn't think that switching guys all the time is good defense...
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A Mad Chinaman
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2015 6:35 pm    Post subject:

NeeJee wrote:
A Mad Chinaman wrote:
NeeJee wrote:
A Mad Chinaman wrote:
24 wrote:
NeeJee wrote:
bonkers wrote:
Probably a broad question, but what is the key reason, from an X's and O's standpoint, that we are doing so poorly on defense?
From my observation, our defense seems to break down often whenever we switch on p&r's. Switching on p&r's with perimeter players is just fine, but whenever you start to switch with your C's and PF's, that's where mismatches form. I don't even want to know how many dunks and layups we gave up to Denver off of p&r's. Our p&r defense last night gave me a headache. It seemed that even when they switched on p&r's, Denver still got dunks and layups! Isn't switching on p&r's supposed to help prevent that? I don't get it.
Secondary rotations also stink. When we make the first rotation well, and the offense moves the ball, we rotate poorly to that.
From the media pundits, it appears that they are saying that our coverage of the player that is rolling to the basket is non-existent. Appearances provide the impression that they are late and/or not exact in their P&R coverage and they are not playing D for the full 24 seconds at full efficiency. The common phrase that they are not playing "On a String" seems very appropriate an accurate.

They do not seem to embrace the Mark Jackson saying: Hands Down, Man Down.

Team appears to be working hard going through the motion of playing the "right" defense. They look like students that practice well but when it comes to reality of playing against other teams - they don't have that mental edge to be effective.

They need to have MWP (only player with a well-deserved reputation/respect as a defender) to be a mentor on the floor by being an example, otherwise they are practicing bad habits in actual games.

Byron's defensive strategies seem to switch on seemingly every possible opportunity, instead of fighting through screens to get back to their assignments. Big-on-small mismatches are common in all of the games so far this year.
They seem to try to double-team mismatches then ask the defender to quickly recover.

Many times their confusion on whether to go under or over gives the appearance that they are switching when they are either slow or inefficient that has led to many "clean" path directly to the basket by the oppositin
Confusion is a great word. They just seem to always have to scramble. I really hope Byron doesn't think that switching guys all the time is good defense...
Warriors seem to favor switching many times
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2015 9:08 pm    Post subject:

24 wrote:
NeeJee wrote:
bonkers wrote:
Probably a broad question, but what is the key reason, from an X's and O's standpoint, that we are doing so poorly on defense?

From my observation, our defense seems to break down often whenever we switch on p&r's. Switching on p&r's with perimeter players is just fine, but whenever you start to switch with your C's and PF's, that's where mismatches form. I don't even want to know how many dunks and layups we gave up to Denver off of p&r's. Our p&r defense last night gave me a headache. It seemed that even when they switched on p&r's, Denver still got dunks and layups! Isn't switching on p&r's supposed to help prevent that? I don't get it.


Secondary rotations also stink. When we make the first rotation well, and the offense moves the ball, we rotate poorly to that.


Faried highlights against us:



Not going to do a play by play breakdown this time. It looks like our secondary rotations have gotten worse to the point of non-existence.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2015 10:07 pm    Post subject:

fiendishoc wrote:
24 wrote:
NeeJee wrote:
bonkers wrote:
Probably a broad question, but what is the key reason, from an X's and O's standpoint, that we are doing so poorly on defense?

From my observation, our defense seems to break down often whenever we switch on p&r's. Switching on p&r's with perimeter players is just fine, but whenever you start to switch with your C's and PF's, that's where mismatches form. I don't even want to know how many dunks and layups we gave up to Denver off of p&r's. Our p&r defense last night gave me a headache. It seemed that even when they switched on p&r's, Denver still got dunks and layups! Isn't switching on p&r's supposed to help prevent that? I don't get it.


Secondary rotations also stink. When we make the first rotation well, and the offense moves the ball, we rotate poorly to that.


Faried highlights against us:



Not going to do a play by play breakdown this time. It looks like our secondary rotations have gotten worse to the point of non-existence.
Totally Agree!!

The ineptness of the D is because of
Lack of effort for the entire clock
Lack of execution for the entire clock
Lack of discipline for the entire clock
Lack of basketball IQ/fundamentals for the entire clock
Lack of experience displayed for for the entire clock
Lack of players that have a defensive mentality
Lack of coaching


With the Knicks battling the Cavs for most of the game, Trailblazers giving the Grizzs a hard time - what are we missing
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2015 11:46 pm    Post subject:

fiendishoc wrote:


Faried highlights against us:



Not going to do a play by play breakdown this time. It looks like our secondary rotations have gotten worse to the point of non-existence.


I'll give it a shot

Play 1: Julius dies on a screen that he never should have even touched - looks like Russell calls the cross but unclear on if he tells Julius to go under or over, but the two of them make a real blunder out of this one, Russell ends up providing a second screen on Julius. Faried does nicely setting it up. This one goes on both Russell and Randle, but maybe a little more on Russell for not communicating how Randle should get through and then getting in Randle's way.

Play 2: Not sure what Clarkson is doing applying ball pressure that far up the court. Mudiay gets him on his hip from half court and gets straight to the rim before anyone can even react. Clarkson recovers well to challenge the layup. Randle gets caught in two minds and doesn't know whether to box Faried or help on Mudiay and ends up doing neither, and Faried makes a nice putback. This one's on both Clarkson for getting beat from half court and Randle for doing neither of the two options he had.

Play 3: Brandon Bass makes a complete blunder saving a ball to the other team's half, basically Kevin Love but for the Nuggets. Nothing anyone could have done defensively. This one's on Bass, though the rest of the team completely fell asleep. kinda hard to pin this one on transition d even though it technically could be.

Play 4: Clarkson gets beat 1 on 1, Randle loses sight of his man ball watching. It seems clear that Randle's responsibility here is to help Clarkson so him leaving Faried seems to be by design, but it's unclear on whether it's Lou Will or Brandon Bass' responsibilty to pick up the diving Faried. I think it was Lou because if it's Bass the dump off pass is too easy, and Lou looks like he just reads it late.

Play 5: Randle lets Faried get across him too easily without even a bump. Fell asleep for a second and didn't fight Faried for position. Weak foul call though.

Play 6: Black just gets outworked for position - not ready to play and by the time he realizes Faried's established interior position it's too late.

Play 7: One of the better PnR defenses I saw in the game - Black shows to slow Harris down, then recovers on Faried. Just doesn't finish the play with a box out.

Play 8: Our infamous transition defense. Why we have 4 players fighting for an offensive rebound with nobody getting back is beyond me. Lou stood in the same wing area the whole time, he be rotating to the top of the key. Clarkson had no business going for that offensive rebound after Kobe took his shot. Lou Will gets back and then...lets Faried go. Must have gotten faked by a Mudiay pass fake to the wing. This one's probably on Williams and Clarkson, but they don't seem to have any assignments on transition so I'd put this one on coaching.

Play 9: This one has a lot of moving parts. Clarkson gets caught on a double screen for Mudiay. Hibbert picks Mudiay up as Clarkson trails the play, Randle and Clarkson both rush to cover Arthur (I think) and leave Faried alone at the top of the key. Tough play to defend as there were multiple rotations, but Randle still shows a lack of focus with a lazy close out to Faried. Tough finish over Randle and Hibbert still.

Play 10: Black sags but takes the wrong angle. Faried has a straight uncontested line to the hoop. Balck should have been over a few steps. He is also hunched over in poor defensive stance, reaches for the pass instead of sliding over to Faried.

Play 11: Another sag. Randle this time. Clarkson shows but Randle isn't covering Faried. If Clarkson's responsibility is to show, Randle should not have left Faried. Mudiay actually has two great options here - the pocket pass to Faried or the pass to Nelson for a wide open 3. Who knows what the Lakers were doing on this possession. Didn't defend anything.
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fiendishoc
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2015 12:03 am    Post subject:

On play 7 Lou had the opportunity to tag the roll man, but wasn't close.

Play 10, Lou should have been on the nail and Bass could have been in 2.9 to stop Faried's roll. Instead, easy dunk.

Then there was this:
https://vine.co/v/eL7LFLUDEb7
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2015 12:23 am    Post subject:

fiendishoc wrote:
On play 7 Lou had the opportunity to tag the roll man, but wasn't close.

Play 10, Lou should have been on the nail and Bass could have been in 2.9 to stop Faried's roll. Instead, easy dunk.

Then there was this:
https://vine.co/v/eL7LFLUDEb7


You're right on both plays - I think on 7 it wouldn't have made a difference, though it would be ideal. What's interesting is that watching the game live I thought Lou was our best defender on the night. He was flying around in the game
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2015 12:25 am    Post subject:

fiendishoc wrote:
On play 7 Lou had the opportunity to tag the roll man, but wasn't close.

Play 10, Lou should have been on the nail and Bass could have been in 2.9 to stop Faried's roll. Instead, easy dunk.

Then there was this:
https://vine.co/v/eL7LFLUDEb7
Disgusting

Apparently Byron's hard practice made these guys tired at the very beginning of the game since they were all acting like players older than Kobe and played "Toro" (matador) defense.

Maybe Byron should do what Pop did one time, call an immediate timeout and put in five new players in.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2015 5:40 am    Post subject:

A Mad Chinaman wrote:
NeeJee wrote:
A Mad Chinaman wrote:
NeeJee wrote:
A Mad Chinaman wrote:
24 wrote:
NeeJee wrote:
bonkers wrote:
Probably a broad question, but what is the key reason, from an X's and O's standpoint, that we are doing so poorly on defense?
From my observation, our defense seems to break down often whenever we switch on p&r's. Switching on p&r's with perimeter players is just fine, but whenever you start to switch with your C's and PF's, that's where mismatches form. I don't even want to know how many dunks and layups we gave up to Denver off of p&r's. Our p&r defense last night gave me a headache. It seemed that even when they switched on p&r's, Denver still got dunks and layups! Isn't switching on p&r's supposed to help prevent that? I don't get it.
Secondary rotations also stink. When we make the first rotation well, and the offense moves the ball, we rotate poorly to that.
From the media pundits, it appears that they are saying that our coverage of the player that is rolling to the basket is non-existent. Appearances provide the impression that they are late and/or not exact in their P&R coverage and they are not playing D for the full 24 seconds at full efficiency. The common phrase that they are not playing "On a String" seems very appropriate an accurate.

They do not seem to embrace the Mark Jackson saying: Hands Down, Man Down.

Team appears to be working hard going through the motion of playing the "right" defense. They look like students that practice well but when it comes to reality of playing against other teams - they don't have that mental edge to be effective.

They need to have MWP (only player with a well-deserved reputation/respect as a defender) to be a mentor on the floor by being an example, otherwise they are practicing bad habits in actual games.

Byron's defensive strategies seem to switch on seemingly every possible opportunity, instead of fighting through screens to get back to their assignments. Big-on-small mismatches are common in all of the games so far this year.
They seem to try to double-team mismatches then ask the defender to quickly recover.

Many times their confusion on whether to go under or over gives the appearance that they are switching when they are either slow or inefficient that has led to many "clean" path directly to the basket by the oppositin
Confusion is a great word. They just seem to always have to scramble. I really hope Byron doesn't think that switching guys all the time is good defense...
Warriors seem to favor switching many times


Yes, that tends to be their philosophy and they kept it in mind when assembling their roster.

How Warriors built NBA's top defense

Quote:
"It doesn't just happen," assistant GM Travis Schlenk said of Golden State's defensive success. "When you look at the guys, other than Andre [Iguodala] and Shaun [Livingston], they're all guys we've drafted. We've made a focal point from when I came on the front office side. The guys we've looked to draft have all been long."

The Warriors are now leveraging that length with their own particular style.

The great defenses of the recent past had their defining features. Roy Hibbert was literally a giant reason the Pacers so infrequently had to apply help defense. Tom Thibodeau's teams flooded the strong side, taking advantage of the new rules and changing the game forever. The Warriors make their mark by taking switching -- the act of trading defensive assignments once screened -- to a new, extreme level...


...For the Warriors, positions mean so little on defense because they've built a roster comprised of guys the same size. The players and coaches call it "versatility," a common set of qualities that allows the team to constantly switch on and off the ball. With Iguodala, Livingston, Klay Thompson, Draymond Green, Harrison Barnes and Justin Holiday, Golden State has a half-dozen long, defensively talented players who stand between 6-foot-6 and 6-foot-8. That height range is perfect for navigating between marking little guys and grappling with big men. For example, Green typically guards power forwards, but he can stop Chris Paul in a pinch.


The interchangeability of the resistance flusters offenses. Screen Iguodala, and here comes Thompson, who happens to be the exact same height. Screen Thompson, and here comes Green, who happens to be the exact same height. Golden State's defense is like the T-1000 Terminator villain who casually regenerates whatever body parts you blast off his corpus.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2015 10:15 am    Post subject:

https://vine.co/v/eLEtIrJBuQx look at the ball reversal and PnR! finally! look at the D move, specifically Bargani - once he moved out of position and had to recover, he had no chance to contain Clarkson.
This is as simple as it gets for some ball reversal PnR - it's not like we ran any action on the other side prior - which would get the D offset even more. But this still worked to perfection, probably in part because teams don't even expect this from us, a semblance of something that isn't the simplest PnR/sets in the book.
A quick/attacking guard like Clarkson thrives with this, man - once your offset he's going to slice you up.
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Worthy42
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2015 4:25 am    Post subject:

After about 2 weeks of play this is how we currently stack up to the league:

Pros:
4th best offense
81% ft shooting team
We get to the line a lot
Bottom 5 in turnovers... we take care of the ball
We're pretty good guarding the 3pt line.

Cons:
Dead Last in Rebounding
Second to Last in Ast
Last in Steals
We're terrible at guarding the rim/in the paint.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2015 6:27 am    Post subject:

Worthy42 wrote:
After about 2 weeks of play this is how we currently stack up to the league:

Pros:
4th best offense
81% ft shooting team
We get to the line a lot
Bottom 5 in turnovers... we take care of the ball
We're pretty good guarding the 3pt line.

Cons:
Dead Last in Rebounding
Second to Last in Ast
Last in Steals
We're terrible at guarding the rim/in the paint.


We're actually 12th in offense rating, 4th in points. Have to account for pace.

Some other advanced stats: we're 3rd worst in Rebounding % (Brandon Bass lineups just killed us, but Randle wasn't much better), second to last in assist ratio as well as opp turnover ratio.

Bottom 7 in offensive rebounding % which is really bad considering how bad our floor balance is.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2015 11:48 am    Post subject:

fiendishoc wrote:
Worthy42 wrote:
After about 2 weeks of play this is how we currently stack up to the league:

Pros:
4th best offense
81% ft shooting team
We get to the line a lot
Bottom 5 in turnovers... we take care of the ball
We're pretty good guarding the 3pt line.

Cons:
Dead Last in Rebounding
Second to Last in Ast
Last in Steals
We're terrible at guarding the rim/in the paint.
We're actually 12th in offense rating, 4th in points. Have to account for pace.

Some other advanced stats: we're 3rd worst in Rebounding % (Brandon Bass lineups just killed us, but Randle wasn't much better), second to last in assist ratio as well as opp turnover ratio.

Bottom 7 in offensive rebounding % which is really bad considering how bad our floor balance is.
With all the physical skills and mental toughness that Randle has already displayed, hopefully these factors will make him a much better than getting .3 offensive rebounds per game
http://m.bkref.com/m?p=XXplayersXXrXXrandlju01.html

Hearing the LO-Zebo descriptions - he has the potential of filling up star sheets like players such as Sir Charles
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2015 5:04 pm    Post subject:

It's easy blaming Kobe and he is partially at fault, but I find the overall lack of player movement, ball movement, side to side actions, and overall stagnation from every body mind numbing. How much is this on Kobe? Honestly, I see these troubles even without Kobe.

It seems as it's a take your turn type offense. Everyone just stands around. The discrepancy between how a good team plays on offense and how the Lakers play is huge.

Defensively we're a mess too.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2015 9:00 pm    Post subject:

Byron Scott needs to go. This team just has no purpose on the court. No offensive or defensive identity at all. don't think B. Scott's system(whatever we're running out there) is going to produce with the guys we have. He is clearly not playing to their strengths. If he is trying to actually implement something, then perhaps the players are tuning him out. In that case he should be fired as well.

The defense is absolutely terrible... The ISO ball is disgusting to watch. There is zero ball movement or fluidity to the offense. The guys just look confused out their and have settled into taking turns going isolation against their man.

B. Scott's rotations have been mind boggling as well. Training camp has been over for awhile and he still doesn't have a sense of his players. Players who have the hot hand are frozen out. Tonight, Nick Young was on fire...commanding double teams... and 3 or 4 possessions went by without him even touching the ball. MWP was disruptive on both ends of the court yet only plays 22 mins.

On paper, this team should be able to compete for the 8th, 9th, or 10th best record in the West and at least play with heart on a nightly basis. Our roster is better than last season, yet we aren't even getting that.

Bottom line is that this team isn't playing smart or to their strengths. That starts at the top. Byron needs to go!
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purple8goldvanessa
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2015 10:29 pm    Post subject:

Worthy42 wrote:
After about 2 weeks of play this is how we currently stack up to the league:

Pros:
4th best offense
81% ft shooting team
We get to the line a lot
Bottom 5 in turnovers... we take care of the ball
We're pretty good guarding the 3pt line.

Cons:
Dead Last in Rebounding
Second to Last in Ast
Last in Steals
We're terrible at guarding the rim/in the paint.


pretty funny stats since i've seen every game so far.
Offensive numbers are quite meaningless since we're practically blown out in the 4th. Every single player minus jordan clarkson have weights on their feet. Absolutely no movement or passes. The defensive numbers and second chance points are totally right on. Pretty damn sad.
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fiendishoc
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2015 10:32 pm    Post subject:

purple8goldvanessa wrote:
Worthy42 wrote:
After about 2 weeks of play this is how we currently stack up to the league:

Pros:
4th best offense
81% ft shooting team
We get to the line a lot
Bottom 5 in turnovers... we take care of the ball
We're pretty good guarding the 3pt line.

Cons:
Dead Last in Rebounding
Second to Last in Ast
Last in Steals
We're terrible at guarding the rim/in the paint.


pretty funny stats since i've seen every game so far.
Offensive numbers are quite meaningless since we're practically blown out in the 4th. Every single player minus jordan clarkson have weights on their feet. Absolutely no movement or passes. The defensive numbers and second chance points are totally right on. Pretty damn sad.


We're not the 4th best offense. We're currently the 9th worst.
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A Mad Chinaman
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2015 11:25 am    Post subject:

TheGoat1 wrote:
Byron Scott needs to go. This team just has no purpose on the court. No offensive or defensive identity at all. don't think B. Scott's system(whatever we're running out there) is going to produce with the guys we have. He is clearly not playing to their strengths. If he is trying to actually implement something, then perhaps the players are tuning him out. In that case he should be fired as well.

The defense is absolutely terrible... The ISO ball is disgusting to watch. There is zero ball movement or fluidity to the offense. The guys just look confused out their and have settled into taking turns going isolation against their man.

B. Scott's rotations have been mind boggling as well. Training camp has been over for awhile and he still doesn't have a sense of his players. Players who have the hot hand are frozen out. Tonight, Nick Young was on fire...commanding double teams... and 3 or 4 possessions went by without him even touching the ball. MWP was disruptive on both ends of the court yet only plays 22 mins.

On paper, this team should be able to compete for the 8th, 9th, or 10th best record in the West and at least play with heart on a nightly basis. Our roster is better than last season, yet we aren't even getting that.

Bottom line is that this team isn't playing smart or to their strengths. That starts at the top. Byron needs to go!
Would be fascinating to hear what alternatives you would suggest

-

Is Byron the best coach - the jury is still out

Byron's offensive and defensive schemes are clear when the players are executing. Are they the best, the jury is still out since we have not seen the schemes consistency. When Nance/MWP are on the court in recent games, the defense has been much better. With the team is passing, it is fun to watch when they are devoid of miscues

Byron deplores the ISOs and has stated in countless times

Swag not touching the ball is on the PG and the rest of the team - plus Swaggy needs to keep moving through screens

The rookies are not playing smart on the court with rookie mistakes

Plus, Clarkson and Randle have already been thoroughly courted and are taking away their initial pet moves. Clarkson high P&Rs are being defended differently hence limiting those opportunities. Defenders are backing off of Randle forcing him to take outside shots. Clarkson/Randle are learning that the NBA is a game of adjustments and these are just the initial ones.

Again, is Byron the best coach - the jury is still out. Fans would not tolerate a 76ers-type of season - even accepting that the rookies need PT and a rookie coach would have problems of credibility with the media and fans.

Would Coach Thibbs be an acceptable coach given how the offense was run during his times with the Bulls

Attention Rookies (To All Concern)
School is Now in Session
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fiendishoc
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2015 8:46 pm    Post subject:

^ The problem with your "jury is still out" approach is that there are quite a few ways to measure Scott's performance on things like ball movement and defense objectively and he's failing all of them. Same as last season, with a different set of mostly veteran players. And same with his Cavaliers teams. Every coach will tell you that they want these things, but whether they are doing anything to achieve it is a different story.

As for your line about Byron deploring iso's- the man is practically known for his iso's. His plays often have one action and then terminate in an isolation or a stagnant reset into a pick and roll. He doesn't hold anyone accountable for ball stopping. In the press conference for his hiring, he mentioned the need for players to beat their man one on one in his system. When Kyrie was asked about Byron's system, he responded "I kind of just remember my isolation plays".
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A Mad Chinaman
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2015 10:37 pm    Post subject:

Understand your opinions

When the Lakers play mainly a free-flowing offense with multiple passes and the fourth quarters is made of a series of ISOs that frustrated Byron - it appears that the players resort to Hero Ball to try to win games instead of trusting the system.

What play would have DLO doing nothing except dribbling beyond the 3pt line and pass BACK to Lou Williams who rejected the high P&R action along with the other three players doing nothing except watch goes against any and all principals taught in Remedial Basketball 101.

Wondering how you are discerning the difference between the lack of execution vs rookie mistakes
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fiendishoc
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2015 10:39 pm    Post subject:

A Mad Chinaman wrote:
Understand your opinions

When the Lakers play mainly a free-flowing offense with multiple passes and the fourth quarters is made of a series of ISOs that frustrated Byron - it appears that the players resort to Hero Ball to try to win games instead of trusting the system.

What play would have DLO doing nothing except dribbling beyond the 3pt line and pass BACK to Lou Williams who rejected the high P&R action along with the other three players doing nothing except watch goes against any and all principals taught in Remedial Basketball 101.

Wondering how you are discerning the difference between the lack of execution vs rookie mistakes


The play that Byron called. Everything up to Lou waving off the screen at the end was exactly the play as Byron drew it up. So how the heck is that a rookie mistake?
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