Peja is better than Odom.
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Aeneas Hunter
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:08 am    Post subject:

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DP -- There's so much hate and negativity for Odom in this site. Its like the burden of the team (Lakers) only hangs on Lamar. How about the rest of the guys? This is a 12-team roster. Its not only about Lamar.


"Hate" is an exaggeration. The problem is that Odom is supposed to be our number two player, but he isn't up to the task. He gets paid star-quality dollars, but is really just a glorified roleplayer. This year, his role has been Kobe's caddy.

It should be fairly obvious that this team is not going to advance to the next level with Lamar Odom. He can't handle the number two role, and he's too expensive for any other role.

Is that negativity toward Odom? Yes. Is it hate? No. I'll cheer for him as long as he wears the purple and gold, but I'm not going to kid myself that he's a significant asset to the team.

As for the rest of the roster, you are right that everyone must share in the blame, but the expectations are not very high for guys like Vujacic and Parker. Those guys don't have a eight figure salary and aren't supposed to be star-quality players. Despite his limitations, Mihm plays hard and seems to give the sort of effort and commitment that you want to see. Kwame's a project, and we all knew that before the season started. Cook, Walton, and George are just roleplayers.

Odom doesn't have those excuses. That's why he spends a lot of time in the crosshairs on this board.

Having said that, I'd hope that we can do better than Peja when we unload Odom. But that's because I don't have a high opinion of Peja, not because I think Odom is worth keeping.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:10 am    Post subject:

PrplReign wrote:
B-Scott wrote:
Would you rather have

1. Peja 22 point a game. he and kobe win 50 games,get to 2nd round. Peja chokes in the 2nd round

OR

2 Lamar average 12 points. Chokes all 82 games. Lakers go 42-40

i think id take Peja choking in the 2nd round. As least as a fan i had some excitement for 50 games,and a 1st round. LOL


Ah, so you guys are back to disliking Odom, Huh? Wow, you two really change your minds quite often.

Its called being consistent. You know what LO aint
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:12 am    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
If he were, why would David Aldridge report that the Kings offered Peja and B-Jax for LO last season at deadline?

Peja is better at LO at one thing.

Shooting.


The Lakers should have done that trade but were too infatuated with Odom's potential.

Peja may be one-dimensional, but he excels at shooting (this year's struggles notwithstanding). Is there really anything that Odom excels at? And don't say rebounding, because though he is certainly a very good rebounder, nobody would mention his name when listing the best rebounders in the league. Everyone mentions Peja when listing the best shooters in the league...
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:17 am    Post subject:

Another problem is Peja is a free-agent after this year which would screw us. We need contracts to expire after '07. But he's still a much better fit for us than Odom.
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DP
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:22 am    Post subject:

I think when nothing is going good, we tend to look for a scapegoat and that goat is Lamar Odom. I understand your concern that he is "supposed" to be the #2 player for the Lakers and he should play like it, especially earning a huge paycheck. But I don't think we should question his effort and passion for the game. He's into a lot of pressures because of the media and the fans. Lamar is in our team, not because he's earning more than say Smush or Sasha, he's the only guy that should be blamed everytime the Lakers lost a game. Like I said, the coaching staff wants him to be the facilitator (a different role he had last year) and Kobe stated before that LO makes his game easy. I'm not all over LO for his game or something but he's a Laker and I support him whether the team wins or lose.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:30 am    Post subject:

bounty wrote:
wolfpaclaker wrote:
If he were, why would David Aldridge report that the Kings offered Peja and B-Jax for LO last season at deadline?

Peja is better at LO at one thing.

Shooting.

weak argument. When Peja played next to a superstar CWEb, someone who atracted a lot of attention he excelled. Playing next to kobe would free him up a bit more than say Bibby. Peja has proven to thrive as a second LO has proven to wilt

So he'll score more points? Agreed.

Does that make him better? In your mind - yes. In mine - No.

Because there's still ballhandling, rebounding and weakside shotblocking to account for.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:34 am    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
bounty wrote:
wolfpaclaker wrote:
If he were, why would David Aldridge report that the Kings offered Peja and B-Jax for LO last season at deadline?

Peja is better at LO at one thing.

Shooting.

weak argument. When Peja played next to a superstar CWEb, someone who atracted a lot of attention he excelled. Playing next to kobe would free him up a bit more than say Bibby. Peja has proven to thrive as a second LO has proven to wilt

So he'll score more points? Agreed.

Does that make him better? In your mind - yes. In mine - No.

Because there's still ballhandling, rebounding and weakside shotblocking to account for.

More points is good yes but not the only aspect he brings.

Would he not draw a million times more attention than LO? yes. Could you dare him to shoot like LO? NO. Does he work into position without the ball?Yes. Was he not considered a solid passer ? Yes. Assts. on the Kings were tougher to come by b/c EVERYONE passed. Hes 6'9, he can board but never had to. He is an IMPACT PLAYER. LO aint.
All of these traits make it easier for KOBE. Your LO qualities are make believe. From what Im starting to see, smush and Kobe are bringing the ball up more and more. LO's defense has been hilarious. You have made up LO to be this special guy. hes not. He cant handle better than the next guy.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:58 am    Post subject:

shnjb wrote:
karlmalonefan wrote:
drzucchini wrote:
thedude1977 wrote:
Peja has nothing to offer besides his shooting, which disappears in crunch time. He cost the Kings their chance at the championship because he is a choke artist.


To be fair, Lamar Odom isn't exactly Miller Time when it comes to crunch time. Untimely offensive fouls, wide-open misses, questionable decisions in general...
Didn't say he was Miller Time, just said I think he's a better player than Peja. And you act like odom always chokes, I can think of a few times this year he has made clutch shots or plays, and do you remember the golden state game last year when kobe was hurt? Seem to recall him going one on one and winning the game for us in the final seconds...He also took a team of rookie d wade, brian grant, eddie jones and an injured caron butler to the second round of the playoffs. For some reason, people seem to forget the good things he's done trying to hate on him. :roll: Guess what, Kobe is usually clutch, but even he makes stupid plays, but he gets a pass because he's kobe, right?


You mean that Dwyane Wade who was unstoppable in the playoffs?
Or that Eddie Jones who's a great defensive player now and was better then?
Or perhaps Butler whom, in the eyes of some, is a 20 ppg scorer in this league in near future?

Seriously, what a burden.
Well, kobe, with most of the same pieces had a sub 500 team last year, what does that say??? Guess that makes d wade better than kobe, right??? :roll:
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:59 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Quote:
DP -- There's so much hate and negativity for Odom in this site. Its like the burden of the team (Lakers) only hangs on Lamar. How about the rest of the guys? This is a 12-team roster. Its not only about Lamar.


"Hate" is an exaggeration. The problem is that Odom is supposed to be our number two player, but he isn't up to the task. He gets paid star-quality dollars, but is really just a glorified roleplayer. This year, his role has been Kobe's caddy.

It should be fairly obvious that this team is not going to advance to the next level with Lamar Odom. He can't handle the number two role, and he's too expensive for any other role.

Is that negativity toward Odom? Yes. Is it hate? No. I'll cheer for him as long as he wears the purple and gold, but I'm not going to kid myself that he's a significant asset to the team..


Agree.

the problem that we will have to keep Odom cuz no other team will take a role player making all star money
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 12:00 pm    Post subject:

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More points is good yes but not the only aspect he brings.

Would he not draw a million times more attention than LO? yes. Could you dare him to shoot like LO? NO. Does he work into position without the ball?Yes. Was he not considered a solid passer ? Yes. Assts. on the Kings were tougher to come by b/c EVERYONE passed. Hes 6'9, he can board but never had to. He is an IMPACT PLAYER. LO aint.
All of these traits make it easier for KOBE. Your LO qualities are make believe. From what Im starting to see, smush and Kobe are bringing the ball up more and more. LO's defense has been hilarious. You have made up LO to be this special guy. hes not. He cant handle better than the next guy.

What really matters is what the Lakers think.

LO would not be traded for Peja. They had a chance last deadline and could've snagged him again this season (since it's Peja's worst in a while)
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 12:00 pm    Post subject:

I am SO SICK of hearing how Peja chokes in the playoffs during crunch time as he did with Sacramento. TRUTH IS: You cant teach shooting! Peja is a natural shooter and is always a threat. PLUS he plays like a SG at the SF position on offense running through double screens to get open and drill threes.....The Lakers would be lucky if they could afford him but their stuck with cowardly ODUMB....WHY IS ODUMB SUCH A WHIMP!
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 12:04 pm    Post subject:

karlmalonefan wrote:
shnjb wrote:
karlmalonefan wrote:
drzucchini wrote:
thedude1977 wrote:
Peja has nothing to offer besides his shooting, which disappears in crunch time. He cost the Kings their chance at the championship because he is a choke artist.


To be fair, Lamar Odom isn't exactly Miller Time when it comes to crunch time. Untimely offensive fouls, wide-open misses, questionable decisions in general...
Didn't say he was Miller Time, just said I think he's a better player than Peja. And you act like odom always chokes, I can think of a few times this year he has made clutch shots or plays, and do you remember the golden state game last year when kobe was hurt? Seem to recall him going one on one and winning the game for us in the final seconds...He also took a team of rookie d wade, brian grant, eddie jones and an injured caron butler to the second round of the playoffs. For some reason, people seem to forget the good things he's done trying to hate on him. :roll: Guess what, Kobe is usually clutch, but even he makes stupid plays, but he gets a pass because he's kobe, right?


You mean that Dwyane Wade who was unstoppable in the playoffs?
Or that Eddie Jones who's a great defensive player now and was better then?
Or perhaps Butler whom, in the eyes of some, is a 20 ppg scorer in this league in near future?

Seriously, what a burden.
Well, kobe, with most of the same pieces had a sub 500 team last year, what does that say??? Guess that makes d wade better than kobe, right??? :roll:


Kobe/Lamar/Caron played only 40 games together last season. Grant took the season off. Bad comparison.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 12:05 pm    Post subject:

Boybees wrote:
And if we had won last nights game, the title of your thread would have been "Odom is better than Peja."

That's all this is: ranting about a loss.

Basketball teams win and lose as a team. The way to get this team to win is to improve the team play, and that's Phil Jackson's job.

Odom is a part of this team, and he plays a big role in every win. You have no idea about how the other players and coaches feel about Odom and his contributions to this team. There is a big reason why he was not traded for Artest, and will not be traded, except for an impact big like KG.

And that reason is his team contribution to the Laker's wins. Something that may not show up on a stat line or through your blinkered video game mentality.


I agree and this Odom bashing comes off like a bunch of 15 year olds vying to be king of the playground!

Thhhryyyght!!!!

It's boring guys!!
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 12:08 pm    Post subject:

40ptmachine wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Quote:
DP -- There's so much hate and negativity for Odom in this site. Its like the burden of the team (Lakers) only hangs on Lamar. How about the rest of the guys? This is a 12-team roster. Its not only about Lamar.


"Hate" is an exaggeration. The problem is that Odom is supposed to be our number two player, but he isn't up to the task. He gets paid star-quality dollars, but is really just a glorified roleplayer. This year, his role has been Kobe's caddy.

It should be fairly obvious that this team is not going to advance to the next level with Lamar Odom. He can't handle the number two role, and he's too expensive for any other role.

Is that negativity toward Odom? Yes. Is it hate? No. I'll cheer for him as long as he wears the purple and gold, but I'm not going to kid myself that he's a significant asset to the team..


Agree.

the problem that we will have to keep Odom cuz no other team will take a role player making all star money


Some team might try to snag him for expiring contracts. If LO continues to play like this, that wouldn't be a bad rout to take at the trade deadline next season. The Lakers would have about $25 million in cap space rather than 12/13 million.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 12:08 pm    Post subject:

thumpinghead wrote:
I am SO SICK of hearing how Peja chokes in the playoffs during crunch time as he did with Sacramento. TRUTH IS: You cant teach shooting! Peja is a natural shooter and is always a threat. PLUS he plays like a SG at the SF position on offense running through double screens to get open and drill threes.....The Lakers would be lucky if they could afford him but their stuck with cowardly ODUMB....WHY IS ODUMB SUCH A WHIMP!


Wolf and shoes are goinh to jump on you back
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 12:13 pm    Post subject:

Peja's not that good...we caught them on the hard end of a back-to-back on the road. When the Pacers pulled away, Peja only got one of the 3 pointers, and Fred Jones nailed 2 on Kobe. He looked like Reggie Miller out there, so if there is to defensive criticism, it should get handed out even-handedly. Of course, when Indiana is in the course of hitting 5 three pointers in a row, you just have to ask yourself if it's their night and our guys won't have the energy on the back-to-back to recover and win the game like in Golden State. The world is not as black and white as some the haters around here suggest. This game was unlike any we played all year, and the Pacers, even though short-handed, played a great game, and were hot as hell from behind the arc.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 12:46 pm    Post subject:

critical_beatdown wrote:
Peja's not that good...we caught them on the hard end of a back-to-back on the road. When the Pacers pulled away, Peja only got one of the 3 pointers, and Fred Jones nailed 2 on Kobe. He looked like Reggie Miller out there, so if there is to defensive criticism, it should get handed out even-handedly. Of course, when Indiana is in the course of hitting 5 three pointers in a row, you just have to ask yourself if it's their night and our guys won't have the energy on the back-to-back to recover and win the game like in Golden State. The world is not as black and white as some the haters around here suggest. This game was unlike any we played all year, and the Pacers, even though short-handed, played a great game, and were hot as hell from behind the arc.

I love how peja gets labeled as "NOT that good" after an injury riddled year. Yet LO after 7 is considered to have potential. Peja carried a team well above 500 when cweb was out, even considered an MVP candidate. He has had far more than 1 good game, especially coming off an injury. im sure now that LO is hurt he will be afforded excuses. Peja brings so much more of an impact to game than LO.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 12:57 pm    Post subject:

hes a better scorer, that is about it.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 1:00 pm    Post subject:

Ill take Peja....Odom had his time to blossom his "potential". He hasn't and after 7 years, I can't imagine it will ever happen. If it does, How much potential? An extra basket or two? One more board? Will he develop a right hand all of a sudden? Ill take Peja...
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 1:02 pm    Post subject:

bounty wrote:

I love how peja gets labeled as "NOT that good" after an injury riddled year. Yet LO after 7 is considered to have potential. Peja carried a team well above 500 when cweb was out, even considered an MVP candidate. He has had far more than 1 good game, especially coming off an injury. im sure now that LO is hurt he will be afforded excuses. Peja brings so much more of an impact to game than LO.


The Shoes is not going to like your post
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 1:04 pm    Post subject:

Enough of the back to back stuff both teams were playing back to back games. Both played on the road Tuesday , the Lakers came in over confident and got bit.

Even undermanned the Pacers are a low seed playoff team . They are without Jermaine almost exclusively a perimeter team, once the Pacers got hot just before halftime , then right after the half the Lakers appeared to throw in the towel. Long road trips do that to you once the momentum switches.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 1:31 pm    Post subject:

Two years ago Peja:

1st in FT %, 3 pointers made
2nd mins played, FG's made, points, scoring average

2nd Team All NBA

In seven years, Odom:

*crickets*

I'll allow that some peeps like Odom over Peja, but I just don't get how Odom is THAT much better than Peja. I also think Peja's an average rebounder, not a bad one, he just happens to be on the perimeter the majority of the time.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 1:52 pm    Post subject:

bmk wrote:
Two years ago Peja:

1st in FT %, 3 pointers made
2nd mins played, FG's made, points, scoring average

2nd Team All NBA

In seven years, Odom:

*crickets*

I'll allow that some peeps like Odom over Peja, but I just don't get how Odom is THAT much better than Peja. I also think Peja's an average rebounder, not a bad one, he just happens to be on the perimeter the majority of the time.


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Aeneas Hunter
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 3:02 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
DP -- I think when nothing is going good, we tend to look for a scapegoat and that goat is Lamar Odom.


Actually, the team has exceeded my expectations so far this season. I'm sure that's true for a lot of people. I'm not looking for a scapegoat. I'm looking for a team that contends for a title in a couple years.

Quote:
DP -- I understand your concern that he is "supposed" to be the #2 player for the Lakers and he should play like it, especially earning a huge paycheck. But I don't think we should question his effort and passion for the game. He's into a lot of pressures because of the media and the fans.


I question his effort, given that he has never developed the skills (such as the ability to make a layup with his right hand) to match his abundant natural talent. If he can't handle the pressure, that speaks ill of him as a player. Just let him whine to Kobe about pressure from the media and the fans.

Quote:
DP -- Like I said, the coaching staff wants him to be the facilitator (a different role he had last year) and Kobe stated before that LO makes his game easy.


That's one of my issues with Odom, actually. Kobe needs a teammate, not a caddy. The object is to win games for the team, not to win a scoring title for Kobe.

Making him the facilitator was a good idea. But has the experiment been a success? If you're honest, the answer is "no." Will it succeed in the future? I see no evidence that it will.

Quote:
DP -- I'm not all over LO for his game or something but he's a Laker and I support him whether the team wins or lose.


I can respect that. Just don't fall into the trap of thinking of those of us who are critical of Odom as "haters." I don't hate Odom. I just don't think we're going to advance to the next level with him.

Quote:
Indy Dave -- Enough of the back to back stuff both teams were playing back to back games. Both played on the road Tuesday , the Lakers came in over confident and got bit.


I don't know about overconfident, but we sure got bit. We're not a good enough team to survive an off night against a good team on the road. The fact that it was the home debut for Peja didn't help.

I hope you folks have a nice run for the rest of the season. The Pacers fans and organization didn't deserve what happened in the last 15 months.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 4:58 pm    Post subject:

AHunter, i know that you're trying to be objective as much in regards to Lamar Odom and I don't refer you as the one who hates LO. I know hate is an exaggerated word as you've said but reading the post messages of others, it seems LO doesn't do anything right for them. Is it because of their infatuation with Ron Artest or Peja. My only concern is we're not hearing anything from the coaching staff or from Kobe (perhaps if they lost a game, we hear something from Phil, like what he've said after the loss from Pacers game. BTW, he said the problem is not Kobe, but the others and he did not specify it's Lamar's fault). I know that we are all not sure what's going on during the practice or film session whether the coaching staff are really on LO's throat to perform well. And why would management not willing to trade him, unless there is something we don't know. My point is, LO is a Laker right now, nothing we can do about it whether we complain and complain about his game (we're only hearing these whinings whenever the Lakers lost, huh?). I am not saying he's playing great basketabll, which he is not. But to demand to trade LO everytime Lakers lost a game isn't right anymore)
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