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ringfinger
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 Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 2:43 pm Post subject: |
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| ContagiousInspiration wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | ContagiousInspiration wrote: | Nobody said meaningless
you said your opinion is more important to foreign affairs..albeit in a question form
weird..please quote where I asked what whitey did to your race
I asked when did blacks attack America? because you brought up ww2 events..
please quote me..TIA |
Nobody said meaningless but the implication is there. Just like if I said to somebody, about a topic "you're [insert race], you wouldn't understand" -- it is implying their opinion doesn't hold water because they are of some race.
Here's the quote regarding your offensive question. (I pulled it out, it was a long post).
| ContagiousInspiration wrote: | | Let's hear about what whitey did to your race in America? |
Here's a link to it, on just a couples pages back (page 9): http://forums.lakersground.net/viewtopic.php?t=174618&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=200
I just think these kinds of comments to people aren't very constructive if the goal is to bridge racial divides. If your goal is to put someone down, then you keep doing it I suppose but I don't like it. |
Thank you for quoting it. I appreciate it and no it wasn't meant to upset you . my opinion was that as (bleep) and corrupt and downright criminal as internment was it was much more isolated than 200plus years of slavery and denying them rights for multiple generations
You seemed to be comparing the events as though the Japanese did nothing to cause America to attack them. While in truth blacks did nothing to America to give them a reason to be enslaved for centuries.
I will find a way to be more sensitive to your pov. |
What did my grandfather's sister do to America to cause America to attack her? She did nothing.
Look, there is no point in getting in to a "my ancestor's had it worse than yours" debate. What happened to your ancestors and mine are history. Those days are well over.
This is our time to change things. And we're not changing them by saying such and such race just doesn't get it. It's a pointless statement even if true and regardless of the intention, it creates divide, not closes it. Plus, someone can just turn around and say well you don't know what it's like to walk around on eggshells and have everything you say and do be turned in to a race issue.
Somehow, somewhere, we lost our way and we've gotten to a point where we think we need to point the finger and make every little thing a race issue all of the time. It's hurting our original cause man. |
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Aussiesuede
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| Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 3:01 pm Post subject: |
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Ok. The issue here is police are killing citizens LITERALLY at a rate that is about half of gangbangers homicides. Think about just how outrageous that is.
In calender year 2013, there were 337 REPORTED Police killings. But the majority of Police agencies do NOT report killings by their departments,and there is no rule compelling them to do so. If one applies the same kill rate to non reporting LEO's as that of reporting LEO's, then the estimate for police killings in 2013 was about 768 vs 1824 gang homicides in 2013.
In 2015, a few independent organizations have stated to keep a tally of Police killings. As of today, that number currently stands at 675 for calender year 2015. That's about 3 citizens per day being killed by police. No matter what way you slice it, that is simply unacceptable.
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 3:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Aussiesuede wrote: | Ok. The issue here is police are killing citizens LITERALLY at a rate that is about half of gangbangers homicides. Think about just how outrageous that is.
In calender year 2013, there were 337 REPORTED Police killings. But the majority of Police agencies do NOT report killings by their departments,and there is no rule compelling them to do so. If one applies the same kill rate to non reporting LEO's as that of reporting LEO's, then the estimate for police killings in 2013 was about 768 vs 1824 gang homicides in 2013.
In 2015, a few independent organizations have stated to keep a tally of Police killings. As of today, that number currently stands at 675 for calender year 2015. That's about 3 citizens per day being killed by police. No matter what way you slice it, that is simply unacceptable. |
At the surface, I agree.
If 3 (or more) citizens per day were waving a gun toward a police officer, that would be a way to slice it where it wouldn't seem that egregious. |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 4:07 pm Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | Aussiesuede wrote: | Ok. The issue here is police are killing citizens LITERALLY at a rate that is about half of gangbangers homicides. Think about just how outrageous that is.
In calender year 2013, there were 337 REPORTED Police killings. But the majority of Police agencies do NOT report killings by their departments,and there is no rule compelling them to do so. If one applies the same kill rate to non reporting LEO's as that of reporting LEO's, then the estimate for police killings in 2013 was about 768 vs 1824 gang homicides in 2013.
In 2015, a few independent organizations have stated to keep a tally of Police killings. As of today, that number currently stands at 675 for calender year 2015. That's about 3 citizens per day being killed by police. No matter what way you slice it, that is simply unacceptable. |
At the surface, I agree.
If 3 (or more) citizens per day were waving a gun toward a police officer, that would be a way to slice it where it wouldn't seem that egregious. |
If police were indeed encountering more armed citizens attempting to kill them, it would follow that there would be some sort of correlation in terms of police injuries and deaths due to attack from suspects. But the opposite is true. Police are killing far more people while being killed by people is at historic lows. |
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KobeBryantCliffordBrown
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| Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2015 1:14 am Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | KobeBryantCliffordBrown wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | ContagiousInspiration wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | There's no policy that specifically states what a person can and cannot say. There are guidelines, but not specific words that all police officers must say. So there is some room for interpretation there.
How come it's always "you don't understand" when it's someone who isn't black but everyone else is the same?
Man -- that is messed up man. I may not be black, but I am a person of color and I am offended at such an assertion. Yikes. |
What in the (bleep) are you talking about?
Blacks are treated extremely different by the police. If you want to deny that then go right ahead but you will be wrong.
Is your race treated differently by the police than WHITE PEOPLE are?
How long were your ancestors used as personal slaves for WHITE Americans..assaulted by US Presidents... Bought and sold like livestock...hung from trees..had crimes blamed on them because the cops and courts will just hang a Negro and the case will be closed...
Let's hear about what whitey did to your race in America? Go ahead..tell us..don't just troll your boat. |
I'm a total mutt, but I'm part Japanese and I have ancestors who spent their entire childhood in internment camps. How many victim points is that worth? Do I get to hoot and holler about how you don't understand because you didn't experience this horrific event? (Let's just ignore that I didn't either, but I get to claim it by association, right?)
Also, do I get to sum the total victim points incurred by all of my various ancestors or, how do I allocate those points? For instance, if I was only 1/4 black, do I only get 25% of the share of victim points or do I get the full allocation and right to say people don't understand what "my people" went through as well?
Bottom line is, the kind of talk that you (and some others) spew widens the unfortunate gaps that exists on racial lines. Is your goal to reduce or eliminate those racial divides? If so, how exactly does asking what "whitey" did to my race do anything in the way of accomplishing that? How does suggesting to someone who was just giving an opinion, that their race invalidates their opinion help close the gap?
Do you like it, or dislike it, when people to do things to exacerbate the racial issues we have today? I don't like, but that's just me. |
Well, as you can imagine. I think you're wrong on just about every point made in this post but I can't quite go into things in depth right now. I'll just say to the bolded that the answer is individualized. How much in damages ARE you allowed? What IS the impact on your life? What was taken from your ancestors that might have been passed to you? How integrated ARE you in the larger economic society? How much does your ancestry affect you on a daily basis? etc.....If you're born to the wealth that was built on the back of people held as human chattel or if your ancestors labor was used to build wealth for another group of people and you have no inheritance, then it makes a difference. And that's just one of about a hundred variables that contribute to the FACT that the past affects the present and the future. |
Would you accept the answers I give you at face value?
Do you think it is appropriate to use terms such as "whitey"? Just curious. I don't. |
Of course not to both. The first because I don't think you are capable of being objective on the subject matter, the second because I'm not white. I don't have group standing to make that comment without dehumanizing white people. But if CI is white, then I see no problem with calling out his own people.
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jodeke
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| Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2015 10:52 am Post subject: |
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KobeBryantCliffordBrown wrote:
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Of course not to both. The first because I don't think you are capable of being objective on the subject matter, the second because I'm not white. I don't have group standing to make that comment without dehumanizing white people. But if CI is white, then I see no problem with calling out his own people. |
If I were a wagering man I wager RF never gave that a thought. He probably doesn't know Trey.
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America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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Aussiesuede
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| Posted: Sat Aug 01, 2015 11:36 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | The Texas trooper who arrested Sandra Bland after a confrontation that began with a traffic stop was once cautioned about "unprofessional conduct" in a 2014 incident. In an evaluation that covered September and October 2014, his supervisor noted that Encinia "was given a written counseling for unprofessional conduct ... for an incident occurring while at a school in Austin."
"In the future, Trooper Encinia should conduct himself at all times in a manner that will reflect well upon himself, the Department, and the State of Texas. This supervisor will ensure that this is done by meeting periodically with Trooper Encinia." |
Officer Encina Warned Prior for Unprofessional Conduct
I suspect Encina was a flirty frat boy. He was definitely a little flirty with the female motorist he pulled over just before he pulled over Bland. He potentially felt rejected by Blands failing to succumb to his attempted charms as well. He seems to enjoy patrolling near college campuses.
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ContagiousInspiration
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| Posted: Sat Aug 01, 2015 2:09 pm Post subject: |
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I'm white and was babysat with two black children in a city where there.we're maybe 25 black families or less.
Racism and inequality are terrible diseases.
I was just looking up the James Byrd story and stumbled upon this..
http://m.dailykos.com/story/2014/02/11/1276596/-Black-Man-in-Jasper-Texas-Found-With-Cut-Throat-And-Missing-Ear-Ruled-Accidental-Overdose
just 45 Miles from where Byrd was dragged to his death
My argument with ringifnger was this (bleep) is STILL HAPPENING. His events were from 70 years prior. |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 7:04 am Post subject: |
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| jodeke wrote: | KobeBryantCliffordBrown wrote:
| Quote: |
Of course not to both. The first because I don't think you are capable of being objective on the subject matter, the second because I'm not white. I don't have group standing to make that comment without dehumanizing white people. But if CI is white, then I see no problem with calling out his own people. |
If I were a wagering man I wager RF never gave that a thought. He probably doesn't know Trey. |
I have a problem with any commentary that I believe, widens the racial gaps we have today.
And no, I didn't give it a thought because I think his racial background is irrelevant. And especially so when making the implication that "my race" hasn't experienced tragedies in years past.
So how does what you're saying work when one is of mixed race like I am? Do I get to comment about all of the races in my makeup or none? |
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ContagiousInspiration
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| Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 8:20 am Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | jodeke wrote: | KobeBryantCliffordBrown wrote:
| Quote: |
Of course not to both. The first because I don't think you are capable of being objective on the subject matter, the second because I'm not white. I don't have group standing to make that comment without dehumanizing white people. But if CI is white, then I see no problem with calling out his own people. |
If I were a wagering man I wager RF never gave that a thought. He probably doesn't know Trey. |
I have a problem with any commentary that I believe, widens the racial gaps we have today.
And no, I didn't give it a thought because I think his racial background is irrelevant. And especially so when making the implication that "my race" hasn't experienced tragedies in years past.
So how does what you're saying work when one is of mixed race like I am? Do I get to comment about all of the races in my makeup or none? |
You've confused this past the point of futility...
In 1941 the race you provided information on attacked America killing innocent men, women and children
America put some of the people from that race in an internment camp for a couple of years. The country where these people were from had declared war on America and were attacked in kind. The USA rebuilt the country of Japan after the war ended. Hmm...was that "reparations"?
Fwiw, while blacks in the south still weren't allowed to go to school or receive equal rights they did go to war and fight for America
You and CMB both have this all crazied and confused
If you could listen to me talk about the Lakers or Chick Hearn who would you choose?
If you wanted to know about black lives in America would you pick a white person to tell you about being black in America or maybe ask a Japanese person about being black in America or maybe ask a native American? |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 9:20 am Post subject: |
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| ContagiousInspiration wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | jodeke wrote: | KobeBryantCliffordBrown wrote:
| Quote: |
Of course not to both. The first because I don't think you are capable of being objective on the subject matter, the second because I'm not white. I don't have group standing to make that comment without dehumanizing white people. But if CI is white, then I see no problem with calling out his own people. |
If I were a wagering man I wager RF never gave that a thought. He probably doesn't know Trey. |
I have a problem with any commentary that I believe, widens the racial gaps we have today.
And no, I didn't give it a thought because I think his racial background is irrelevant. And especially so when making the implication that "my race" hasn't experienced tragedies in years past.
So how does what you're saying work when one is of mixed race like I am? Do I get to comment about all of the races in my makeup or none? |
You've confused this past the point of futility...
In 1941 the race you provided information on attacked America killing innocent men, women and children
America put some of the people from that race in an internment camp for a couple of years. The country where these people were from had declared war on America and were attacked in kind. The USA rebuilt the country of Japan after the war ended. Hmm...was that "reparations"?
Fwiw, while blacks in the south still weren't allowed to go to school or receive equal rights they did go to war and fight for America
You and CMB both have this all crazied and confused
If you could listen to me talk about the Lakers or Chick Hearn who would you choose?
If you wanted to know about black lives in America would you pick a white person to tell you about being black in America or maybe ask a Japanese person about being black in America or maybe ask a native American? |
Wow. The ignorance is real.
Apparently, in 1941, an entire RACE attacked America. That would include the elderly, civilians, women, children. Heck, I didn't even know Japanese was a race. And then, to have the audacity to justify the obliteration of those elderly, civilians, woman, children by nuclear means? Disgusting. And sad, really.
Been saying it for pages. What you spew ... and how you spew it ... widens the gap. I'm not sure if that's what you're trying to do, but if it is, you're doing a masterful job. You're trying to bind two pieces of wood together with a saw. Amazing. |
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ContagiousInspiration
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| Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 10:13 am Post subject: |
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So answer my question
if you wanted to know about black-african-american lives in America would there be a race best to ask?
Japan was nearly 99.9% Japanese race in 1941, correct or not?
it's ok if you demand to be right
I never said your opinions on black peoples experiences in America weren't useful... but I highly doubt they would be as.insightful as those of an actual black person... if that bothers you I will just have to live with it because you have said nothing to make me see it as incorrect. |
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jodeke
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| Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 10:42 am Post subject: |
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Guys, let's stay on point. This thread is about Sandra Bland being stopped and dying while in custody. If any want to discuss the plight of Blacks in America, the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki start a thread to discuss your differences. Don't get this one locked, please.
EDIT: Or PM one another....
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Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.
Last edited by jodeke on Mon Aug 03, 2015 11:01 am; edited 1 time in total |
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ContagiousInspiration
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| Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 10:42 am Post subject: |
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If I wanted to know about how the events of ww2 affected the Japanese I would ask someone it affected
if I want.to know how the racist policies and attitudes affect , not past tense, African Americans I would ask someone it is affecting
fair? |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 12:53 pm Post subject: |
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| ContagiousInspiration wrote: | If I wanted to know about how the events of ww2 affected the Japanese I would ask someone it affected
if I want.to know how the racist policies and attitudes affect , not past tense, African Americans I would ask someone it is affecting
fair? |
I don't think Miley Cyrus could possibly understand what it feels like to not be able to vote. |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 12:54 pm Post subject: |
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| jodeke wrote: | Guys, let's stay on point. This thread is about Sandra Bland being stopped and dying while in custody. If any want to discuss the plight of Blacks in America, the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki start a thread to discuss your differences. Don't get this one locked, please.
EDIT: Or PM one another.... |
That's fair. But you guys need to stop telling people who aren't such and such a skin color that their opinion doesn't hold weight.
How do you think we even got here? |
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jodeke
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| Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 12:59 pm Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | jodeke wrote: | Guys, let's stay on point. This thread is about Sandra Bland being stopped and dying while in custody. If any want to discuss the plight of Blacks in America, the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki start a thread to discuss your differences. Don't get this one locked, please.
EDIT: Or PM one another.... |
That's fair. But you guys need to stop telling people who aren't such and such a skin color that their opinion doesn't hold weight.
How do you think we even got here? |
OK
That's another discussion. Let's stay with Sandra Bland.
_________________
Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 1:39 pm Post subject: |
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| ContagiousInspiration wrote: | In 1941 the race you provided information on attacked America killing innocent men, women and children
America put some of the people from that race in an internment camp for a couple of years. The country where these people were from had declared war on America and were attacked in kind. |
I was tempted to ask how you reconcile this with your criticism of Israeli policy towards the Palestinians, but I decided against it. I wouldn't want to raise Jodeke's blood pressure.
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jodeke
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| Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 2:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | ContagiousInspiration wrote: | In 1941 the race you provided information on attacked America killing innocent men, women and children
America put some of the people from that race in an internment camp for a couple of years. The country where these people were from had declared war on America and were attacked in kind. |
I was tempted to ask how you reconcile this with your criticism of Israeli policy towards the Palestinians, but I decided against it. I wouldn't want to raise Jodeke's blood pressure.
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Won't raise it one mm. I'm through with that discussion. I'm all for discussing Sandra Bland. Those are discussions best debated via PM. I guess without audiences posters don't want/like to engage.
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Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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jodeke
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| Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2015 8:19 am Post subject: |
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Sandra Bland's Family Sues State Trooper, Wants Answers
LINK
There are so many inconsistencies, enough to make me think there's a cover up in the making.
How do you botch a autopsy? Her saying yes she had attempted suicide in the last year highlighted. Her answering no when asked if she felt that way today swept under the rug.
Encina's statement refuted by the video makes whatever he says questionable.
Encina's getting more ink than Sandra Bland. Anyone have any more on Freddie Gray? He seems to also be being swept under the rug.
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Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2015 4:03 pm Post subject: |
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| The family might have a claim based on the arrest, but I don't see a colorable claim based on the suicide. As for whether the information is inconsistent or the autopsy flawed, I would need something more than claims by family members before I took it seriously. |
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jodeke
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| Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2015 6:03 pm Post subject: |
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Authorities release autopsy results in Sandra Bland’s death
LINK
More disbelief.
| Quote: | | Authorities released in full the long-awaited autopsy results for Sandra Bland, a 28-year-old whose death inside a jail here was met with disbelief by her family and members of her fellow activist community. But the report did not include toxicology results, leaving questions unanswered about preliminary reports suggesting Bland consumed a large amount of marijuana shortly before her death. |
Anyone having any knowledge of marijuana knows there's no way in hell Sandra Bland smoked any cannabis in he jail cell. The smell would be impossible to cover. This supposition stinks to high heaven.
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Authorities have yet to release a comprehensive toxicology report that would show whether Bland either smoked or ingested large amounts of marijuana prior to her death. Preliminary results suggested that the drug was present in her system when she died three days after her arrest, leaving open to prosecutors the possibility that she may have consumed marijuana inside her jail cell. |
I'm in agreement with AH, I'll wait for the second report.
| Quote: | | Bland’s family ordered a second, independent autopsy of their own. Those results are still pending. In the meantime, the family is preparing funeral arrangements in her Illinois hometown. |
_________________
Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2015 7:39 pm Post subject: |
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It's conceivable that she got THC in the jail one way or another, but I don't see the relevance either way. If THC caused suicides, Colorado would be about to lose an electoral vote or two. This isn't Reefer Madness.
If she was high when she got pulled over, that would be a different matter. It might be relevant to the way she was acting. Pot affects different people in different ways. Offhand, though, I don't remember any suggestion that she was on drugs. You have to know that we'd have heard about it from the police.
Back on the subject of the lawsuit, I feel badly for her family. If I was her brother or father, I'd be smelling conspiracies, too. However, I know something about the law in cases like this (section 1983 cases). She has a tough road to get liability against the city or county, and collecting a judgment against the cop is unlikely. |
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Aeneas Hunter
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jodeke
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| Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2015 7:55 am Post subject: |
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@ AH If Sandra got THC while she was incarcerated how did she consume it? I don't see how she could have smoked it without being noticed.
If she got it in pill form,brownies, some solid means, couldn't the system, city, county, be held accountable? She was in jail, had no visitors meaning it had to come from within. How would you attack that?
Going after Encina will most likely cause frustration. If he's found culpable, where will the funds come from?
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Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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