I don't see any legit argument for any other big ahead of him. Maybe Moses Malone.
So basically Hakeem over Shaq?
Take the homer glasses off please.
One was a dominant defender. The other wasn't. No homer glasses here.
Well your username is Dreamshake after all, yeah no homer glass. (bleep) clueless Rockets fans.
Wait, so Hakeem is better than Duncan you say? So he's better than Kobe too? I've seen you proclaim that Duncan is better than Kobe. Oh man this is truly laughable.
Olajuwon is the best two-way player of all-time. I think he definitely is better than Duncan, and is arguably better than Shaq. I think even Shaq would admit that, he has a lot of respect for Hakeem
I don't see any legit argument for any other big ahead of him. Maybe Moses Malone.
So basically Hakeem over Shaq?
Take the homer glasses off please.
One was a dominant defender. The other wasn't. No homer glasses here.
Well your username is Dreamshake after all, yeah no homer glass. (bleep) clueless Rockets fans.
Wait, so Hakeem is better than Duncan you say? So he's better than Kobe too? I've seen you proclaim that Duncan is better than Kobe. Oh man this is truly laughable.
Olajuwon is the best two-way player of all-time. I think he definitely is better than Duncan, and is arguably better than Shaq. I think even Shaq would admit that, he has a lot of respect for Hakeem
i think wilt would argue against that. Hakeem had a great set of skills, but wilt did also. and the more videos i see of him, the more i am convinced that he might truly be the best big man of all time. right now, i'm standing at wilt, kareem, hakeem...in that order. hakeem's problem is size, he's significantly smaller than these other guys. his moves are the best, for sure. no one can outjuke hakeem. wilt was basically good at everything...you can almost say he was magnificent at every aspect of the game. kareem had the skyhook which is extremely unique, and his overall skill set is somewhere between hakeem and wilt.
i really don't think shaq belongs in this argument, and i don't like saying that. i don't think shaq could play well against wilt. young kareem played well against old wilt....but i don't think the opposite would be the case. if anything, perhaps they would be somewhat equal. the recent thing that tips the scales for me that i wasn't that aware of is the wilt fadeaway. he's making legit fadeaway jumpers, so that's just too much. i know kareem has the skyhook, but when you factor in a fadeaway jumper with the rest of wilt's skill and power, maybe it surpasses the skyhook. If we only consider Shaq's uber dominant early years, he could stand a chance, but i don't think his raw power could overwhelm wilt or kareem.
people talk so much about shaq's agility for his size and all that, and it's very true. but in all honesty, wilt has just as agile, stronger, leaner, more skilled, more dedicated, smarter, etc. etc. i used to think a lot of the wilt stories were exaggerated, but the more of those archives that are released, the more i think that's not the case.
Olajuwon is the best two-way player of all-time. I think he definitely is better than Duncan, and is arguably better than Shaq. I think even Shaq would admit that, he has a lot of respect for Hakeem
I think you are throwing around the words "definitely" and "arguably" too casually.
Best two way centers in the running: Kareem, Wilt, Hakeem.
Olajuwon is the best two-way player of all-time. I think he definitely is better than Duncan, and is arguably better than Shaq. I think even Shaq would admit that, he has a lot of respect for Hakeem
I think you are throwing around the words "definitely" and "arguably" too casually.
Best two way centers in the running: Kareem, Wilt, Hakeem.
I probably go with Kareem.
I can't really comment on Wilt, because I can't separate the mystique from the player. He is babe ruth at this point for me.
You can take Kareem, that's certainly fine with me. I do think he was underrated defensively, certainly more fundamentally sound than Olajuwon when it came to defensive footwork in my estimation.
Joined: 24 Dec 2007 Posts: 35812 Location: Santa Clarita, CA (Hell) ->>>>>Ithaca, NY -≥≥≥≥≥Berkeley, CA
Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2015 11:38 pm Post subject:
Dreamshake wrote:
Of the ones I've seen:
Cap
Dream
The ones I haven't seen but believe in:
Russell
Wilt
I go back and forth between him and Shaq.
I don't see any legit argument for any other big ahead of him. Maybe Moses Malone.
Do you (and Rockets fans in general) regret drafting Olajuwon over Michael Jordan? What would have happened? _________________ Damian Lillard shatters Dwight Coward's championship dreams:
Moses Malone, Hakeem Olajuwon, Patrick Ewing, David Robinson, Shaquille O’Neal, Dwight Howard, Tim Duncan (actually a center, as Popovich admitted a few years back), and the rest of the truly great modern big men all bring something to the table, and all are all-time centers. But Wilt gets the nod over all of them, and not just because of his stat-heavy accolades.
Moses Malone, Hakeem Olajuwon, Patrick Ewing, David Robinson, Shaquille O’Neal, Dwight Howard, Tim Duncan (actually a center, as Popovich admitted a few years back), and the rest of the truly great modern big men all bring something to the table, and all are all-time centers. But Wilt gets the nod over all of them, and not just because of his stat-heavy accolades.
I doubt many people get worked up by the idea of Duncan being considered a center. If that's all you had said, this thread would have disappeared after a couple of responses.
It was the silly list of people you think are better than Duncan that caused eyes to roll
Moses Malone, Hakeem Olajuwon, Patrick Ewing, David Robinson, Shaquille O’Neal, Dwight Howard, Tim Duncan (actually a center, as Popovich admitted a few years back), and the rest of the truly great modern big men all bring something to the table, and all are all-time centers. But Wilt gets the nod over all of them, and not just because of his stat-heavy accolades.
I doubt many people get worked up by the idea of Duncan being considered a center. If that's all you had said, this thread would have disappeared after a couple of responses.
It was the silly list of people you think are better than Duncan that caused eyes to roll
it changes one thing in particular...people can't just automatically say "Duncan is the greatest power forward to play the game" , and that's my real point. If he is considered to be a center, what do you say? is he a top 10 big man of all time? surely not the best. don't you remember all the controversy around the all star stuff with yao and duncan back in the day?
Joined: 29 Aug 2004 Posts: 11197 Location: The Other Perspective
Posted: Sat Jul 25, 2015 11:48 am Post subject:
SuperboyReformed wrote:
it changes one thing in particular...people can't just automatically say "Duncan is the greatest power forward to play the game" , and that's my real point. If he is considered to be a center, what do you say? is he a top 10 big man of all time? surely not the best. don't you remember all the controversy around the all star stuff with yao and duncan back in the day?
Can you elaborate on your belief that Deandre is better than Duncan? I'd love to hear your rationale. _________________ "Chick lived and breathed Lakers basketball…but he was also fair and objective and called every game the way it was played."
-from Chick: His Unpublished Memoirs and the Memories of Those Who Knew Him
it changes one thing in particular...people can't just automatically say "Duncan is the greatest power forward to play the game" , and that's my real point. If he is considered to be a center, what do you say? is he a top 10 big man of all time? surely not the best. don't you remember all the controversy around the all star stuff with yao and duncan back in the day?
Can you elaborate on your belief that Deandre is better than Duncan? I'd love to hear your rationale.
He jumps really high? And has nice dunks? That's all you need to impress a bunch of fans here lately. _________________ Music is my medicine
it changes one thing in particular...people can't just automatically say "Duncan is the greatest power forward to play the game" , and that's my real point. If he is considered to be a center, what do you say? is he a top 10 big man of all time? surely not the best. don't you remember all the controversy around the all star stuff with yao and duncan back in the day?
Can you elaborate on your belief that Deandre is better than Duncan? I'd love to hear your rationale.
He jumps really high? And has nice dunks? That's all you need to impress a bunch of fans here lately.
Hmmm....you realize the DJ bit was a joke. Not sure what you want me to say.
Joined: 29 Aug 2004 Posts: 11197 Location: The Other Perspective
Posted: Sat Jul 25, 2015 12:34 pm Post subject:
SuperboyReformed wrote:
Hmmm....you realize the DJ bit was a joke. Not sure what you want me to say.
Were Mikan, Sampson, and McHale jokes as well, or were those serious? I'm curious about your argument for each one. Thanks. _________________ "Chick lived and breathed Lakers basketball…but he was also fair and objective and called every game the way it was played."
-from Chick: His Unpublished Memoirs and the Memories of Those Who Knew Him
I don't see any legit argument for any other big ahead of him. Maybe Moses Malone.
Do you (and Rockets fans in general) regret drafting Olajuwon over Michael Jordan? What would have happened?
I doubt they do, honestly. Olajuwon got them to the finals in his second year (i think it was his second season). Maybe Jordan does too though? Maybe they win, I don't know. Would have been tough for them to get past the Lakers then.
Would Sampson still get hurt? If not then maybe they become a really good team, but with Sampson gets hurt they essentially become the Bulls pre-Pippen. Would we see a triangle with Jordan and Rodney Mccray? Buck Johnson? Otis Thorpe?
I guess they would have been free to change up the draft and go after a center. I think Houston is perfectly happy with Olajuwon over Jordan, maybe Jordan is happy about it too.
I don't see any legit argument for any other big ahead of him. Maybe Moses Malone.
Do you (and Rockets fans in general) regret drafting Olajuwon over Michael Jordan? What would have happened?
Nope. Jordan would have zero titles with the supporting casts Dream played with (look at some of the rosters). The problem wasn't Dream....it was mgmt. When he had Sampson he was in the Finals by year two. It wasn't a situation where it took years for a player to show he was good enough to win wth. Finals in year two. Then Sampson got hurt. He didn't get another star teammate until 95, who he instantly won with to repeat on the title he won without a star player the year before. Houston was a title contender when we traded for Barkley as well, even though Dream was old.
No regrets. What Rockets team do you see Jordan winning with?
Joined: 29 Aug 2004 Posts: 11197 Location: The Other Perspective
Posted: Sat Jul 25, 2015 5:59 pm Post subject:
Math wrote:
This thread is blasphemous. Tim Duncan is the tallest power forward of all time. End of discussion.
KG's taller: http://oi46.tinypic.com/2cmokrr.jpg _________________ "Chick lived and breathed Lakers basketball…but he was also fair and objective and called every game the way it was played."
-from Chick: His Unpublished Memoirs and the Memories of Those Who Knew Him
I don't see any legit argument for any other big ahead of him. Maybe Moses Malone.
Do you (and Rockets fans in general) regret drafting Olajuwon over Michael Jordan? What would have happened?
Zero rings, zero finals appearances, Portland wins 3-5 though _________________ I believe everything the media tells me except for anything for which I have direct personal knowledge, which they always get wrong
Last edited by Telleris on Sun Jul 26, 2015 2:54 pm; edited 1 time in total
Hey!! this is an interesting point...why isn't KG ever in the discussion? Duncan isn't that much better than KG if at all.
So no thoughts on why you think Mikan, McHale, and Sampson are better than TD? _________________ "Chick lived and breathed Lakers basketball…but he was also fair and objective and called every game the way it was played."
-from Chick: His Unpublished Memoirs and the Memories of Those Who Knew Him
Hey!! this is an interesting point...why isn't KG ever in the discussion? Duncan isn't that much better than KG if at all.
KG didn't have much team success -- he only won one ring and his Minn teams routinely lost in the first round.
That said, the only PFs I typically see ranked above Garnett are Duncan, Malone and Barkley, so it's not like people don't acknowledge his greatness.
KG plays more of the forward position than duncan does. that's the stupid thing with duncan. kg is a better forward than duncan because duncan doesn't even play the position. yet, he's getting all the accolades for being the greatest power forward while playing center. it's just this big stupid gimmick. kg is just better at that position. duncan is a better center than kg. kg is a better forward.
Probably just Kareem and Wilt. I have Duncan over Russell and Shaq. Especially if he wins the #6. It is strange because at one point, from like 08 to 12 it just seemed like he was slowing down, wasnt one of the best in the game anymore. Then somehow he rejuvinated himself.
He benefited greatly from having Pop by his side, one of the best coached ever but you can't deny his dominance and longevity.
People forget how great Duncan is. Shaq at his peak was the most dominant player ever IMO but Duncan was able to hold his own against him. Even get the better of him.
And he's still going and may win the #6. Unreal.
Duncan rarely guarded Shaq. It was mostly David Robinson and Malik Rose. Plus Duncan hasn't been "dominant" for many years. His longevity is amazing, and he plays at a high level, but certainly not a dominant level.
It works both ways in the sense Shaq could never guard Duncan. I remember quite a few times when Shaq tried to guard Duncan for a full game that it resulted in Duncan scoring 30 plus on him. Those 2 always cancelled each other out. Kobe was the difference maker in '01 and '02 if it wasn't for Kobe the Lakers don't win those series.
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