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fiendishoc
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 Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2015 7:37 am Post subject: |
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| He is younger than most of the other guys at the time they were rookies, and his frame has not developed, so it's possible that they ease him into there. On the other hand, there's not a lot of PG depth behind him. |
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2Cleva
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| Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2015 7:42 am Post subject: |
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| Same as Kyrie got as a rookie - 30.5 per. |
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SaintStephen
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| Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2015 8:53 am Post subject: |
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| I hope he gets a lot: 30-34 MPG. Even if he doesn't strictly "deserve" it based on his play. |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2015 9:05 am Post subject: |
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| dood23 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Why? Because the Lakers break their rookies in slowly. |
I think that's more circumstance than anything. We've also had rookies come in and play big minutes. |
Maybe last century, but not this one. Back then guys were 21-23 years old when they came into the league, not 19.
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Fracture
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| Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2015 9:09 am Post subject: |
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| 20 minutes |
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Voices
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Joined: 07 Jul 2006
Posts: 8287
Location: Oxnard, Ca.
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| Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2015 9:52 am Post subject: |
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He is a high first round pick, playing time is very important, the Lakers invested heavily on the young man. From what I have seen he will be a very mature young player playing with the veterans the Lakers have added. His game is very mature, the vets will be a better match with the young man skill set.
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ALTHOUGH HE STANDS 6 FEET 2 INCHES, JIM BUSS ATTENDED JOCKEY SCHOOL WHEN HE WAS 20.
Last edited by Voices on Fri Jul 24, 2015 9:55 am; edited 1 time in total |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2015 9:54 am Post subject: |
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I don't see PT as an ends but a means his first year.
The Lakers will make sure not to overwhelm him this first season. If that means 25 mpg, or 32 mpg, so be it. It's about his growth and process over just forcing him to play lots of minutes b/c he's a #2 pick.
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Lakers#1Team
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Location: Nomad
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| Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2015 10:09 am Post subject: |
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| Four Decade Bandwagon wrote: | As much as he earns!
If he is ready to start and contribute then he should. If he is overwhelmed, turning the ball over and not ready then he should play minimal mpg.
I expect him to look a lot better with the vets and a structured system. I am comfortable with letting training camp competition dictate his mpg.
He is nineteen. He has talent. He will get better as he learns how to be a pro and how to run an offense. I expect struggles and moments of brilliance as he learns. Rushing him in does nothing to his development if he is not ready. Let him earn his mpg. The opportunities will be there this season and the future.. He does not have to be "the Man" game one. |
Yup! Reminds me of those old financial ads where the guy says, "We make money the old-fashioned way. We EARN it!" |
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Love&Peace
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| Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2015 10:19 am Post subject: |
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I think it will be around 26. We have lots of guards: clackson brown williams, even young and kobe (yes i know theyre fowards now). Why does russel need 30+, thats just asking for an injury.
It better to limit starters mins and maximise bench mins. Trust the bench, if they dont play well were not making the playoffs anyway.
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Russell. Williams
Clarkson. JBrown
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kobeandgary
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Location: Virginia
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| Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2015 11:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Chronicle wrote: | | kobeandgary wrote: | | Chronicle wrote: | | dood23 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Why? Because the Lakers break their rookies in slowly. |
I think that's more circumstance than anything. We've also had rookies come in and play big minutes. |
Not in the last 30 years |
you can't compare him to a second round pick as far as minutes are concerned, he was a number two pick and in comparison Magic averaged 36 minutes a game his rookie year. |
That was 35 years ago |
well it's the last time the Lakers drafted a guard that high so it's the only comparison you can make for how Lakers play high profile rookie point guards. |
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doven
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| Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2015 11:53 pm Post subject: |
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| If roster stays put / minimal movements at the 1-2 position I see him hovering around 28 minutes. |
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dood23
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| Posted: Sat Jul 25, 2015 12:01 am Post subject: |
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| Chronicle wrote: | | kobeandgary wrote: | | Chronicle wrote: | | dood23 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Why? Because the Lakers break their rookies in slowly. |
I think that's more circumstance than anything. We've also had rookies come in and play big minutes. |
Not in the last 30 years |
you can't compare him to a second round pick as far as minutes are concerned, he was a number two pick and in comparison Magic averaged 36 minutes a game his rookie year. |
That was 35 years ago |
It's gonna depend on how ready he looks in preseason. Of our post 2000 lottery picks, Bynum was too raw and Randle hurt himself.
I don't see the Lakers holding themselves to an arbitrary rookie minutes rule if Russell proves he can play competitively for 30mpg.
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ElginBaylor
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| Posted: Sat Jul 25, 2015 3:34 am Post subject: |
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| Chronicle wrote: | | kobeandgary wrote: | | Chronicle wrote: | | dood23 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Why? Because the Lakers break their rookies in slowly. |
I think that's more circumstance than anything. We've also had rookies come in and play big minutes. |
Not in the last 30 years |
you can't compare him to a second round pick as far as minutes are concerned, he was a number two pick and in comparison Magic averaged 36 minutes a game his rookie year. |
That was 35 years ago |
That was Phil who didn't play rookies. We'll see how many minutes Phil gives Porky.
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kobeslaker
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| Posted: Sat Jul 25, 2015 5:05 am Post subject: |
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| Russell just need to keep healthy and fit in the system, if he can get those two things done, then I believe playing time is not a problem, because health means you can play, and fitting in means you should be played. |
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unleasHell
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| Posted: Sat Jul 25, 2015 5:54 am Post subject: |
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I am thinking that Byron is going to figure out rather quickly, that Russel should not be starting due to his erratic play and turnovers, so that allows Clarkson & Kobe to start in the front court.
Of course, Russel will get plenty of playing time in "garbage time" which should be quite a lot based on the strength (or lack thereof) of the roster.
Probably start in the 15 mpg range and work up to 25-30 mpg by the end of the season..
Hopefully next year he can slide into being a starter...
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SaintStephen
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| Posted: Sat Jul 25, 2015 6:18 am Post subject: |
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| unleasHell wrote: | I am thinking that Byron is going to figure out rather quickly, that Russel should not be starting due to his erratic play and turnovers, so that allows Clarkson & Kobe to start in the front court.
Of course, Russel will get plenty of playing time in "garbage time" which should be quite a lot based on the strength (or lack thereof) of the roster.
Probably start in the 15 mpg range and work up to 25-30 mpg by the end of the season..
Hopefully next year he can slide into being a starter... |
This post describes my absolute nightmare scenario.
Let the kid play! He should be getting experience PLAYING at this level, not watching. Yeah, he's gonna make mistakes. But he's also gonna get better game by game and learn what he can and can't do at this level. |
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Love&Peace
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| Posted: Sat Jul 25, 2015 6:43 am Post subject: |
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| SaintStephen wrote: | | unleasHell wrote: | I am thinking that Byron is going to figure out rather quickly, that Russel should not be starting due to his erratic play and turnovers, so that allows Clarkson & Kobe to start in the front court.
Of course, Russel will get plenty of playing time in "garbage time" which should be quite a lot based on the strength (or lack thereof) of the roster.
Probably start in the 15 mpg range and work up to 25-30 mpg by the end of the season..
Hopefully next year he can slide into being a starter... |
This post describes my absolute nightmare scenario.
Let the kid play! He should be getting experience PLAYING at this level, not watching. Yeah, he's gonna make mistakes. But he's also gonna get better game by game and learn what he can and can't do at this level. |
Your nightmare scenario is giving him similar minutes to clarksons first season? I dont think this will be ideal, but definitely not a big deal.
If he struggles early we should cut his minutes, he has to learn the offense and the speed of the game. Practice will make him more comfortable and i think if he struggles it could hurt his progress. Think long term not just this season.
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Starters Bench
Russell. Williams
Clarkson. JBrown
Kobe. Young
Randle. Bass
Hibbert. Black |
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SaintStephen
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| Posted: Sat Jul 25, 2015 7:02 am Post subject: |
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| Love&Peace wrote: | | SaintStephen wrote: | | unleasHell wrote: | I am thinking that Byron is going to figure out rather quickly, that Russel should not be starting due to his erratic play and turnovers, so that allows Clarkson & Kobe to start in the front court.
Of course, Russel will get plenty of playing time in "garbage time" which should be quite a lot based on the strength (or lack thereof) of the roster.
Probably start in the 15 mpg range and work up to 25-30 mpg by the end of the season..
Hopefully next year he can slide into being a starter... |
This post describes my absolute nightmare scenario.
Let the kid play! He should be getting experience PLAYING at this level, not watching. Yeah, he's gonna make mistakes. But he's also gonna get better game by game and learn what he can and can't do at this level. |
Your nightmare scenario is giving him similar minutes to clarkson first season? I dont think this will be ideal, but definitely not a big deal.
If he struggles early we should cut his minutes, he has to learn the offense and the speed of the game. Practice will make him more comfortable and i think if he struggles it could hurt his progress. Think long term not just this season. |
How exactly is he supposed to learn the speed of the game in practice? And many great players have struggled as rookies. Especially guys who come in young. Even LeBron shot 40% from the field and turned it over a lot. So did KD and Westbrook. They did put up good counting stats because they had the ball a lot but make no mistake, they struggled. I don't see anything in Russell's character that makes me think he can't handle failure.
I AM thinking long-term here. In fact, I think it's the opposite: not starting Russell is the short-term, this-season-only type move. Everything I've seen that looks into player development in the NBA has said that MINUTES are the most important factor in getting better. |
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Four Decade Bandwagon
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Joined: 18 Jul 2014
Posts: 8151
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| Posted: Sat Jul 25, 2015 7:41 am Post subject: |
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| SaintStephen wrote: | | Love&Peace wrote: | | SaintStephen wrote: | | unleasHell wrote: | I am thinking that Byron is going to figure out rather quickly, that Russel should not be starting due to his erratic play and turnovers, so that allows Clarkson & Kobe to start in the front court.
Of course, Russel will get plenty of playing time in "garbage time" which should be quite a lot based on the strength (or lack thereof) of the roster.
Probably start in the 15 mpg range and work up to 25-30 mpg by the end of the season..
Hopefully next year he can slide into being a starter... |
This post describes my absolute nightmare scenario.
Let the kid play! He should be getting experience PLAYING at this level, not watching. Yeah, he's gonna make mistakes. But he's also gonna get better game by game and learn what he can and can't do at this level. |
Your nightmare scenario is giving him similar minutes to clarkson first season? I dont think this will be ideal, but definitely not a big deal.
If he struggles early we should cut his minutes, he has to learn the offense and the speed of the game. Practice will make him more comfortable and i think if he struggles it could hurt his progress. Think long term not just this season. |
How exactly is he supposed to learn the speed of the game in practice? And many great players have struggled as rookies. Especially guys who come in young. Even LeBron shot 40% from the field and turned it over a lot. So did KD and Westbrook. They did put up good counting stats because they had the ball a lot but make no mistake, they struggled. I don't see anything in Russell's character that makes me think he can't handle failure.
I AM thinking long-term here. In fact, I think it's the opposite: not starting Russell is the short-term, this-season-only type move. Everything I've seen that looks into player development in the NBA has said that MINUTES are the most important factor in getting better. |
Starting Russell if he is not ready is not helping him learn or thinking long term.
Seeing how he develops in camp and builds chemistry is. Russell will be around for years. Why undermine his confidence if he is not ready? He is going to get mpg. Does not have to be a starter or 30+mpg to start.
Training camp will show a lot as the rotations are decided. I can see the scenario where Russell fits better coming in with the second unit and runs a faster paced offensive minded group with Young, Williams, Bass, Black.
Or he may "fit" better with a structured slower game with Kobe and Hibbert. Who knows at this point. Probably not even Russell knows how comfortable he will be on the court in either structure.
Lakers are rebuilding. There will be plenty of mpg for all the players throughout the season. Locking Russell into a major role just because he was drafted #2 is not going to help him. Let him build the confidence by earning it.
Who knows maybe he is truly the stud we hope and plays 35mpg and excels all season long. ROY !!! |
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Love&Peace
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Joined: 26 Oct 2012
Posts: 490
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| Posted: Sat Jul 25, 2015 7:50 am Post subject: |
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| SaintStephen wrote: | | Love&Peace wrote: | | SaintStephen wrote: | | unleasHell wrote: | I am thinking that Byron is going to figure out rather quickly, that Russel should not be starting due to his erratic play and turnovers, so that allows Clarkson & Kobe to start in the front court.
Of course, Russel will get plenty of playing time in "garbage time" which should be quite a lot based on the strength (or lack thereof) of the roster.
Probably start in the 15 mpg range and work up to 25-30 mpg by the end of the season..
Hopefully next year he can slide into being a starter... |
This post describes my absolute nightmare scenario.
Let the kid play! He should be getting experience PLAYING at this level, not watching. Yeah, he's gonna make mistakes. But he's also gonna get better game by game and learn what he can and can't do at this level. |
Your nightmare scenario is giving him similar minutes to clarkson first season? I dont think this will be ideal, but definitely not a big deal.
If he struggles early we should cut his minutes, he has to learn the offense and the speed of the game. Practice will make him more comfortable and i think if he struggles it could hurt his progress. Think long term not just this season. |
How exactly is he supposed to learn the speed of the game in practice? And many great players have struggled as rookies. Especially guys who come in young. Even LeBron shot 40% from the field and turned it over a lot. So did KD and Westbrook. They did put up good counting stats because they had the ball a lot but make no mistake, they struggled. I don't see anything in Russell's character that makes me think he can't handle failure.
I AM thinking long-term here. In fact, I think it's the opposite: not starting Russell is the short-term, this-season-only type move. Everything I've seen that looks into player development in the NBA has said that MINUTES are the most important factor in getting better. |
You do learn the speed of the game in practice. Also in your "nightmare" he still gets 15mins a game early and 25-30mins later in the season. Which will also help him learn the speed of the game. Who knows how a 19 year old will react to struggling in the nba, lets not find out. Giving a rookie(or any player for that matter, analytics) 30+ minutes a game is asking for an injury.
Anyways my ideal scenario is 26mins all season long. If he does struggle bad at the beginning cut his minutes and let him Earn his minutes back.
_________________
Starters Bench
Russell. Williams
Clarkson. JBrown
Kobe. Young
Randle. Bass
Hibbert. Black |
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GoldenThroat
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Joined: 25 Jul 2005
Posts: 37474
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| Posted: Sat Jul 25, 2015 7:54 am Post subject: |
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| Love&Peace wrote: | | SaintStephen wrote: | | Love&Peace wrote: | | SaintStephen wrote: | | unleasHell wrote: | I am thinking that Byron is going to figure out rather quickly, that Russel should not be starting due to his erratic play and turnovers, so that allows Clarkson & Kobe to start in the front court.
Of course, Russel will get plenty of playing time in "garbage time" which should be quite a lot based on the strength (or lack thereof) of the roster.
Probably start in the 15 mpg range and work up to 25-30 mpg by the end of the season..
Hopefully next year he can slide into being a starter... |
This post describes my absolute nightmare scenario.
Let the kid play! He should be getting experience PLAYING at this level, not watching. Yeah, he's gonna make mistakes. But he's also gonna get better game by game and learn what he can and can't do at this level. |
Your nightmare scenario is giving him similar minutes to clarkson first season? I dont think this will be ideal, but definitely not a big deal.
If he struggles early we should cut his minutes, he has to learn the offense and the speed of the game. Practice will make him more comfortable and i think if he struggles it could hurt his progress. Think long term not just this season. |
How exactly is he supposed to learn the speed of the game in practice? And many great players have struggled as rookies. Especially guys who come in young. Even LeBron shot 40% from the field and turned it over a lot. So did KD and Westbrook. They did put up good counting stats because they had the ball a lot but make no mistake, they struggled. I don't see anything in Russell's character that makes me think he can't handle failure.
I AM thinking long-term here. In fact, I think it's the opposite: not starting Russell is the short-term, this-season-only type move. Everything I've seen that looks into player development in the NBA has said that MINUTES are the most important factor in getting better. |
You do learn the speed of the game in practice. Also in your "nightmare" he still gets 15mins a game early and 25-30mins later in the season. Which will also help him learn the speed of the game. Who knows how a 19 year old will react to struggling in the nba, lets not find out. Giving a rookie(or any player for that matter, analytics) 30+ minutes a game is asking for an injury.
Anyways my ideal scenario is 26mins all season long. If he does struggle bad at the beginning cut his minutes and let him Earn his minutes back. |
It seems mathematically difficult to get from 15mpg early on, to 25-30mpg later on, and end up at 26mpg overall. |
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SaintStephen
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| Posted: Sat Jul 25, 2015 8:01 am Post subject: |
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I am not at all concerned about Russell's confidence. He has a good head on his shoulders and he knows he can play.
I do not believe that practice speed is the same as game speed.
I don't care as much if Russell starts or comes off the bench though, as long as he gets plenty of minutes. I just don't want him in Byron's doghouse early on just because he's a mistake-prone rookie and it's "old school" to punish him or make him "earn it". The fact is that basically every team around the league brings along their lottery picks quickly, and they do it because that's been shown to be the most effective. |
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GoldenThroat
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| Posted: Sat Jul 25, 2015 8:07 am Post subject: |
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I think PT is essential for the development of most players, but Russell more than most. This will be the first time in a very long time that Russell won't be the smartest or most sophisticated player on the court, and that's simply a function of experience. His type of game isn't predicated on athleticism. A guy like Andrew Wiggins can get by on physical ability while having no idea what's going on out there, because his best asset is better than most guys who are 25. That's not the case with Rusell, whose game is predicated on being able to process information quicker than others do, and then utilize his skill set to capitalize on that. The 25 year olds will be better at that in the beginning.
The sooner he sees that information, the sooner he'll be a productive player. |
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Love&Peace
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Joined: 26 Oct 2012
Posts: 490
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| Posted: Sat Jul 25, 2015 8:08 am Post subject: |
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| GoldenThroat wrote: | | Love&Peace wrote: | | SaintStephen wrote: | | Love&Peace wrote: | | SaintStephen wrote: | | unleasHell wrote: | I am thinking that Byron is going to figure out rather quickly, that Russel should not be starting due to his erratic play and turnovers, so that allows Clarkson & Kobe to start in the front court.
Of course, Russel will get plenty of playing time in "garbage time" which should be quite a lot based on the strength (or lack thereof) of the roster.
Probably start in the 15 mpg range and work up to 25-30 mpg by the end of the season..
Hopefully next year he can slide into being a starter... |
This post describes my absolute nightmare scenario.
Let the kid play! He should be getting experience PLAYING at this level, not watching. Yeah, he's gonna make mistakes. But he's also gonna get better game by game and learn what he can and can't do at this level. |
Your nightmare scenario is giving him similar minutes to clarkson first season? I dont think this will be ideal, but definitely not a big deal.
If he struggles early we should cut his minutes, he has to learn the offense and the speed of the game. Practice will make him more comfortable and i think if he struggles it could hurt his progress. Think long term not just this season. |
How exactly is he supposed to learn the speed of the game in practice? And many great players have struggled as rookies. Especially guys who come in young. Even LeBron shot 40% from the field and turned it over a lot. So did KD and Westbrook. They did put up good counting stats because they had the ball a lot but make no mistake, they struggled. I don't see anything in Russell's character that makes me think he can't handle failure.
I AM thinking long-term here. In fact, I think it's the opposite: not starting Russell is the short-term, this-season-only type move. Everything I've seen that looks into player development in the NBA has said that MINUTES are the most important factor in getting better. |
You do learn the speed of the game in practice. Also in your "nightmare" he still gets 15mins a game early and 25-30mins later in the season. Which will also help him learn the speed of the game. Who knows how a 19 year old will react to struggling in the nba, lets not find out. Giving a rookie(or any player for that matter, analytics) 30+ minutes a game is asking for an injury.
Anyways my ideal scenario is 26mins all season long. If he does struggle bad at the beginning cut his minutes and let him Earn his minutes back. |
It seems mathematically difficult to get from 15mpg early on, to 25-30mpg later on, and end up at 26mpg overall. |
I dont want to start him at 15mins a game early i've never said that. I want to play him 26mins a game all season long. I would only cut his minutes if he struggles. I was only saying its not a "nightmare" if he plays 15 early in the season.
_________________
Starters Bench
Russell. Williams
Clarkson. JBrown
Kobe. Young
Randle. Bass
Hibbert. Black |
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GoldenThroat
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Posts: 37474
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| Posted: Sat Jul 25, 2015 8:09 am Post subject: |
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| ^My bad, I misread that. |
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