Posted: Sat Jul 25, 2015 3:54 pm Post subject: Point of Concern: Perimeter Defense
As of today, the perimeter depth chart looks something like this:
Russell/Lou Williams
Clarkson/JBrown
Kobe/Young/ABrown (maybe some Nance Jr.).
Hibbert is a godsend, defensively speaking. However, upon closer examination, his otherwise top-10 (in terms of advanced defensive metrics) NBA defense (not just centers but the entire NBA) suffered in large part due to Paul George's injury and Lance Stephenson's departure. Lance actually put up some great defensive metrics his final year in Indy, and Paul George is one of the top defenders.
I'm concerned that despite having an elite rim protector like Hibbert, we have some gaping holes on the perimeter.
-DLO: rookie, though he showed some promise using his great wingspan and intelligence. Regardless, will be a tough transition from the NCAA to the NBA.
-Clarkson: was pretty bad last year on defense, though he was pretty much our top offensive weapon. He will need to improve his defensive awareness and will have to guard both quick PGs and bigger SGs. He certainly has the body and athleticism to do it, but I don't expect him to be a defensive stalwart.
-Lou Williams: not known as a defender, and will have to cross match with the team's PG.
-JBrown: gunner, not known for his defensive prowess.
-Young: I don't think I have to say much. He has all the physical tools but has never seemed to put much effort on D.
-ABrown: drafted b/c of his 3/D potential, but being a rookie, tough transition.
-Kobe: Not confident he has the durability to bang with bigger SFs, nor can he chase SGs throughout the game. He does still have the ability to be a decent defender for limited possessions, but overall, just not a plus defender.
In short, there should be a lot of concern defensively speaking. Who is the guy we stick on a high usage, high scoring player? Is it Kobe? There doesn't appear to be much on the market either in terms of improving in this respect (Moute is a good defender, but just failed a physical and offers nothing offensively; Dorrell Wright is at best an average 3/D player).
My hope is the team will look to trade for a more effective SF/SG defender, or will be opportunistic with the room exception to get one throughout the year (buyouts, etc.). I feel Hibbert is in a sense, being put in a position to fail with our poor perimeter defense. Our "best" defender may be a rookie (ABrown) who has a ways to go before being able to play 25mpg in the NBA at this point.
What schemes can the team run in the meantime to improve defensively? _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals
I don't have the expertise to draw up a Thibodeau type defensive scheme, but here's my pretty surface level analysis.
Kobe should probably just take whoever is slowest/least threatening on the wing offensively. May even cross match with Randle sometimes to hide him on less offensively oriented PFs, depending on how much agility Randle shows.
Clarkson should probably just guard the PGs, he's the quickest and if he continues to be bad on defense, well nobody really does a great job on PGs anyway.
Russell may have to take the tougher of the wings a lot of the time. This sucks but is the only way to keep Kobe from disintegrating or getting badly roasted IMO.
In the end just try to funnel all the penetration toward Hibbert and hope for the best.
There was an article I ready about a year ago; I think it might have been a Grantland article. It focused in on the Trail Blazers defensive scheme/strategy, and I think would benefit us moving forward with our team this season should we decide to adopt the same/similar philosophy defensively.
I'm going to try to remember the high points: the Blazers didn't gamble on defense, they fouled even less opting to play good positional defense, and contest shots. They focused on allowing their opponent to settle for mid-range 2's and ran them off the 3-point line.
I'm not comparing the personnel they had with our personnel; obviously something's are different, but that defensive philosophy if I remember correctly, had them ranked better than average in defensive efficiency.
I don't have the expertise to draw up a Thibodeau type defensive scheme, but here's my pretty surface level analysis.
Kobe should probably just take whoever is slowest/least threatening on the wing offensively. May even cross match with Randle sometimes to hide him on less offensively oriented PFs, depending on how much agility Randle shows.
Clarkson should probably just guard the PGs, he's the quickest and if he continues to be bad on defense, well nobody really does a great job on PGs anyway.
Russell may have to take the tougher of the wings a lot of the time. This sucks but is the only way to keep Kobe from disintegrating or getting badly roasted IMO.
In the end just try to funnel all the penetration toward Hibbert and hope for the best.
The more I think about it, it may get quite ugly, which is why I think the Lakers will aggressively be looking (once we get to 12/15 when FAs can be traded again) to find a more athletic wing defender. The thought of Kobe having to guard scoring SFs like Durant/LBJ/Melo, etc. is a bit worrisome. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals
Honestly if Kobe would just focus on D and let the young guns work their way out on the offensive side of the ball I think we could be okay?
Kobe just does not have that mindset. It was rumored he was willing to be a D and three type (at the 2) if Melo or Lebron came? If he could take that mindset and apply it to this team I think that could do wonders?
I disagree that Kobe "can't" get it done on defense and still guard the bulls of the league (Melo, Bron). He just feels the need to drop 25+ as well, and he way overexerts himself on the offensive side of the ball?
I would rather us be a bad offensive team that plays decent to good defense, rather then be a decent to good offense and a bad defense?
I love Kobe, but I really hope he lets the guys grow a bit? Idk? I seen signs of him trying to share more when D'Antoni was in LA, but Idk?
Honestly if Kobe would just focus on D and let the young guns work their way out on the offensive side of the ball I think we could be okay?
Kobe just does not have that mindset. It was rumored he was willing to be a D and three type (at the 2) if Melo or Lebron came? If he could take that mindset and apply it to this team I think that could do wonders?
I disagree that Kobe "can't" get it done on defense and still guard the bulls of the league (Melo, Bron). He just feels the need to drop 25+ as well, and he way overexerts himself on the offensive side of the ball?
I would rather us be a bad offensive team that plays decent to good defense, rather then be a decent to good offense and a bad defense?
I love Kobe, but I really hope he lets the guys grow a bit? Idk? I seen signs of him trying to share more when D'Antoni was in LA, but Idk?
Kobe in his last yr is not going to give u that much on defense.
Honestly if Kobe would just focus on D and let the young guns work their way out on the offensive side of the ball I think we could be okay?
Kobe just does not have that mindset. It was rumored he was willing to be a D and three type (at the 2) if Melo or Lebron came? If he could take that mindset and apply it to this team I think that could do wonders?
I disagree that Kobe "can't" get it done on defense and still guard the bulls of the league (Melo, Bron). He just feels the need to drop 25+ as well, and he way overexerts himself on the offensive side of the ball?
I would rather us be a bad offensive team that plays decent to good defense, rather then be a decent to good offense and a bad defense?
I love Kobe, but I really hope he lets the guys grow a bit? Idk? I seen signs of him trying to share more when D'Antoni was in LA, but Idk?
Kobe in his last yr is not going to give u that much on defense.
Maybe last 5mins of game but thats it
I think with guys like Lebron and Durant he will be a bit more "excited" at the beginning of the game but not sure he can last 30 mpg plus on elite scorers.
He can do some in limited circumstances, a few possessions at a time but doubt he can sustain over a whole game. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals
Honestly if Kobe would just focus on D and let the young guns work their way out on the offensive side of the ball I think we could be okay?
Kobe just does not have that mindset. It was rumored he was willing to be a D and three type (at the 2) if Melo or Lebron came? If he could take that mindset and apply it to this team I think that could do wonders?
I disagree that Kobe "can't" get it done on defense and still guard the bulls of the league (Melo, Bron). He just feels the need to drop 25+ as well, and he way overexerts himself on the offensive side of the ball?
I would rather us be a bad offensive team that plays decent to good defense, rather then be a decent to good offense and a bad defense?
I love Kobe, but I really hope he lets the guys grow a bit? Idk? I seen signs of him trying to share more when D'Antoni was in LA, but Idk?
Kobe in his last yr is not going to give u that much on defense.
Maybe last 5mins of game but thats it
Kobe is still the best scorer on the team. He should focus on offense. When these young guys go cold we will still look to him to put up points. Now how long he stays healthy remains to be seen. _________________ Starters Bench
Russell. Williams
Clarkson. JBrown
Kobe. Young
Randle. Bass
Hibbert. Black
As much as Wes Johnson disappointed us, I do kind of wish we could have kept him. Big, long athletic 3 who could theoretically try to match up with true SFs.
When we need to "lock down" a hot PG, who do we throw? Maybe Clarkson can try but he's got a ways to go defensively. I do think the Lakers will be active shoppers to get a defensive SF on 12/15 and beyond. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals
Well, we're not gonna stop a lot folks. That's for sure. There was not enough cap room to fill every hole. We'll just have to wait until next year to get our SF.
I think our perimeter defense will be above average with our length and speed. We might have some problems at the foward positions but our guard defense should be good. _________________ Starters Bench
Russell. Williams
Clarkson. JBrown
Kobe. Young
Randle. Bass
Hibbert. Black
Honestly if Kobe would just focus on D and let the young guns work their way out on the offensive side of the ball I think we could be okay?
Kobe just does not have that mindset. It was rumored he was willing to be a D and three type (at the 2) if Melo or Lebron came? If he could take that mindset and apply it to this team I think that could do wonders?
I disagree that Kobe "can't" get it done on defense and still guard the bulls of the league (Melo, Bron). He just feels the need to drop 25+ as well, and he way overexerts himself on the offensive side of the ball?
I would rather us be a bad offensive team that plays decent to good defense, rather then be a decent to good offense and a bad defense?
I love Kobe, but I really hope he lets the guys grow a bit? Idk? I seen signs of him trying to share more when D'Antoni was in LA, but Idk?
Kobe in his last yr is not going to give u that much on defense.
Maybe last 5mins of game but thats it
Kobe is still the best scorer on the team. He should focus on offense. When these young guys go cold we will still look to him to put up points. Now how long he stays healthy remains to be seen.
I would say Clarkson is unquestionably our best scorer. But I agree if Kobe could come back strong from injury and become one of our better options on offense it would help mitigate his effect on our defense.
Thibodeau's defensive system is designed to get the ball to one side of the floor, overload that side with extra help defenders, and close off all passing lanes. When executed correctly, it shrinks the court and suffocates the player with the ball.
Force the ball towards the baseline.
There are two schools of thought about where on-ball defenders should steer their man: force middle (which is better expressed as "don't get beat toward the baseline"), and force baseline. The idea behind forcing middle is that attacking ball handlers are led right to a defending big men who will either block the shot or force the offensive player to make a quick read and a tough pass. This strategy works best when the defense has a great shot blocker to anchor the defense. The alternative is to channel the ball handler away from the middle and toward the baseline. The biggest advantage of this strategy is that you can use the boundaries of the court as extra defenders. Once an offensive player gets stuck along the baseline, his passing angles are much narrower than what they are from the middle of the floor. This is especially valuable in the NBA where athletic off-ball defenders can cover most of the court in just a few steps. Against an active defense, a ball handler forced to the baseline will often have to abandon his hope of creating in good shot in favor of merely trying to avoid a turnover.
Overload the strong side
The easiest way for the force baseline tactic to fail is for the help defenders to be late reacting. This is what happens when the help defense is late:
_________________ Coach Vogel, Kidd, Hollins
Max slot : Kawhi
As much as Wes Johnson disappointed us, I do kind of wish we could have kept him. Big, long athletic 3 who could theoretically try to match up with true SFs.
When we need to "lock down" a hot PG, who do we throw? Maybe Clarkson can try but he's got a ways to go defensively. I do think the Lakers will be active shoppers to get a defensive SF on 12/15 and beyond.
Nick can defend when he puts forth the effort. _________________ Coach Vogel, Kidd, Hollins
Max slot : Kawhi
If we have ANY SUCCESS at the wing spot on defense we will exceed our expectations for the year! We have two young guards and one old guard and a former 6th man coming off the bench, so I doubt we have any real impactful action on the wing spots?
Honestly if Kobe would just focus on D and let the young guns work their way out on the offensive side of the ball I think we could be okay?
Kobe just does not have that mindset. It was rumored he was willing to be a D and three type (at the 2) if Melo or Lebron came? If he could take that mindset and apply it to this team I think that could do wonders?
I disagree that Kobe "can't" get it done on defense and still guard the bulls of the league (Melo, Bron). He just feels the need to drop 25+ as well, and he way overexerts himself on the offensive side of the ball?
I would rather us be a bad offensive team that plays decent to good defense, rather then be a decent to good offense and a bad defense?
I love Kobe, but I really hope he lets the guys grow a bit? Idk? I seen signs of him trying to share more when D'Antoni was in LA, but Idk?
Your best perimeter defender can't be 37 years old.
Solid post. They have a lot of perimeter firepower on offense but perimeter D as a whole looks bad. I agree that the bigger 3s that can score are going to be trouble. Barring a trade they need to look at Moute when his shoulder heals. Young developing guards and Kobe on his last legs could use a 20 minute break. Brown may have to play more ready or not. The other space exception move would be to sign McGee so there is a constant shot block threat inside. Either little band aid would be nice.
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144462 Location: The Gold Coast
Posted: Sat Jul 25, 2015 6:36 pm Post subject:
The Grind wrote:
Well, we're not gonna stop a lot folks. That's for sure. There was not enough cap room to fill every hole. We'll just have to wait until next year to get our SF.
Or maybe we already have him? _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023.
Honestly if Kobe would just focus on D and let the young guns work their way out on the offensive side of the ball I think we could be okay?
Kobe just does not have that mindset. It was rumored he was willing to be a D and three type (at the 2) if Melo or Lebron came? If he could take that mindset and apply it to this team I think that could do wonders?
I disagree that Kobe "can't" get it done on defense and still guard the bulls of the league (Melo, Bron). He just feels the need to drop 25+ as well, and he way overexerts himself on the offensive side of the ball?
I would rather us be a bad offensive team that plays decent to good defense, rather then be a decent to good offense and a bad defense?
I love Kobe, but I really hope he lets the guys grow a bit? Idk? I seen signs of him trying to share more when D'Antoni was in LA, but Idk?
Your best perimeter defender can't be 37 years old.
Not true at all imo. Bowen was 35 when SA won a championship with him as their best perimeter defender. Guarding Lebron James none the less in the finals. Grant Hill was older I believe when the Suns went to the WCF.
Your best perimeter player can't be the best offensive as well at 37 should be what you had said imo. Alot of best perimeter defenders on champions are old veterans.
As much as Wes Johnson disappointed us, I do kind of wish we could have kept him. Big, long athletic 3 who could theoretically try to match up with true SFs.
When we need to "lock down" a hot PG, who do we throw? Maybe Clarkson can try but he's got a ways to go defensively. I do think the Lakers will be active shoppers to get a defensive SF on 12/15 and beyond.
Nick can defend when he puts forth the effort.
And when has he done that ? He's 30 now. He is who he is. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals
Honestly if Kobe would just focus on D and let the young guns work their way out on the offensive side of the ball I think we could be okay?
Kobe just does not have that mindset. It was rumored he was willing to be a D and three type (at the 2) if Melo or Lebron came? If he could take that mindset and apply it to this team I think that could do wonders?
I disagree that Kobe "can't" get it done on defense and still guard the bulls of the league (Melo, Bron). He just feels the need to drop 25+ as well, and he way overexerts himself on the offensive side of the ball?
I would rather us be a bad offensive team that plays decent to good defense, rather then be a decent to good offense and a bad defense?
I love Kobe, but I really hope he lets the guys grow a bit? Idk? I seen signs of him trying to share more when D'Antoni was in LA, but Idk?
Your best perimeter defender can't be 37 years old.
Not true at all imo. Bowen was 35 when SA won a championship with him as their best perimeter defender. Guarding Lebron James none the less in the finals. Grant Hill was older I believe when the Suns went to the WCF.
Your best perimeter player can't be the best offensive as well at 37 should be what you had said imo. Alot of best perimeter defenders on champions are old veterans.
Bowen didn't also hoist 20 shots and run the offense. Kobe may cut down shots but he will always consider himself as the main offensive weapon regardless of age. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals
Honestly if Kobe would just focus on D and let the young guns work their way out on the offensive side of the ball I think we could be okay?
Kobe just does not have that mindset. It was rumored he was willing to be a D and three type (at the 2) if Melo or Lebron came? If he could take that mindset and apply it to this team I think that could do wonders?
I disagree that Kobe "can't" get it done on defense and still guard the bulls of the league (Melo, Bron). He just feels the need to drop 25+ as well, and he way overexerts himself on the offensive side of the ball?
I would rather us be a bad offensive team that plays decent to good defense, rather then be a decent to good offense and a bad defense?
I love Kobe, but I really hope he lets the guys grow a bit? Idk? I seen signs of him trying to share more when D'Antoni was in LA, but Idk?
Your best perimeter defender can't be 37 years old.
Not true at all imo. Bowen was 35 when SA won a championship with him as their best perimeter defender. Guarding Lebron James none the less in the finals. Grant Hill was older I believe when the Suns went to the WCF.
Your best perimeter player can't be the best offensive as well at 37 should be what you had said imo. Alot of best perimeter defenders on champions are old veterans.
Bowen didn't also hoist 20 shots and run the offense. Kobe may cut down shots but he will always consider himself as the main offensive weapon regardless of age.
Well yeah, and that is my point. I was just going off what the man is capable of. What he is capable of and what he will do are two different things.
All and all, yes LA will struggle on the perimeter defensively. Russell may be a surprise? Young has been the same his whole career and I do not see that changing?
Posted: Sat Jul 25, 2015 7:29 pm Post subject: Re: Point of Concern: Perimeter Defense
yinoma2001 wrote:
My hope is the team will look to trade for a more effective SF/SG defender, or will be opportunistic with the room exception to get one throughout the year (buyouts, etc.). I feel Hibbert is in a sense, being put in a position to fail with our poor perimeter defense. Our "best" defender may be a rookie (ABrown) who has a ways to go before being able to play 25mpg in the NBA at this point.
What schemes can the team run in the meantime to improve defensively?
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