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Telleris
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 Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2015 11:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Laker_Town wrote: | If reports about the lack of analytics in the Aldridge meet are true, then they HAVE to, even if its only to address the perception that the Lakers are behind in times.
But "old school" Scott might not be a fan.
I know virtually ZERO on game analytics, but this is where the league has gone. Im not sold every player understands them either, but like everyone else, they see the "trend" and expect it as a staple for every team. Im sure there are major benefits from the metrics, but focusing on the simplest most basic of improvements; hiring this guy just adds another positive selling point in free agency pitches |
It's managements job to bridge the gap between the analytics and the delivery to fit the player, but i doubt the player is looking for much more than where do i fit in and how much can we win.
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Laker's Fan
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Joined: 27 Jun 2002
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| Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2015 11:43 pm Post subject: |
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| DancingBarry wrote: | | Yes, please. After the bad publicity they got hammered with this summer, this would go a long way in changing perceptions (not to mention the culture). |
I wonder if there's room in management for him though. If the two Busses' agendas were aligned, maybe. But between that disparity, Scott's role as their 'comprimise' on coach who at the same time has no interest in analytics, Mitch's role, and even Ryan West's role as potential GM in waiting, how doe Dean slot in? He isnt going to play paper tiger. |
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Chronicle
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| Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 1:58 am Post subject: |
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Is he related to John Oliver ?
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 5:29 am Post subject: |
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Instead of re-inventing the wheel, get a guy like Oliver who can put together a true analytics team (not the "we have 4 guys in Boston...of all places, Boston").
He has the institutional knowledge to get the Lakers faster up to speed than trying to start from the ground up, since we are close to a decade back on the top teams.
if they hire him, I'll be much more comfortable with our FO going forward.
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 5:30 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | He played Division III collegiate basketball at the historically win-challenged Caltech, graduating with honors with a degree in engineering there in 1990, and served as an assistant coach for the team beginning as a junior. He earned a Ph.D. in statistical applications in environmental science at the University of North Carolina in 1994 while scouting for Bertka Views, a scouting organization run by then Laker assistant coach, Bill Bertka. |
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dean_Oliver_(statistician)
1. Played at Cal-Tech...local school.
2. Worked with Bill Bertka!!!
3. earned a PHD at North Carolina.
I mean Mitch, do we need more??? LA college, Bertka, UNC. Do it Mitch.
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Vic5150
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| Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 8:30 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Quote: | | He played Division III collegiate basketball at the historically win-challenged Caltech, graduating with honors with a degree in engineering there in 1990, and served as an assistant coach for the team beginning as a junior. He earned a Ph.D. in statistical applications in environmental science at the University of North Carolina in 1994 while scouting for Bertka Views, a scouting organization run by then Laker assistant coach, Bill Bertka. |
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dean_Oliver_(statistician)
1. Played at Cal-Tech...local school.
2. Worked with Bill Bertka!!!
3. earned a PHD at North Carolina.
I mean Mitch, do we need more??? LA college, Bertka, UNC. Do it Mitch. |
Too many coincidences for this to happen. I'm now positive the Lakers will opt to NOT do the obvious thing and will pass on Oliver. |
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bandiger
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Joined: 02 Apr 2014
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| Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 8:37 am Post subject: |
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| Vic5150 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Quote: | | He played Division III collegiate basketball at the historically win-challenged Caltech, graduating with honors with a degree in engineering there in 1990, and served as an assistant coach for the team beginning as a junior. He earned a Ph.D. in statistical applications in environmental science at the University of North Carolina in 1994 while scouting for Bertka Views, a scouting organization run by then Laker assistant coach, Bill Bertka. |
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dean_Oliver_(statistician)
1. Played at Cal-Tech...local school.
2. Worked with Bill Bertka!!!
3. earned a PHD at North Carolina.
I mean Mitch, do we need more??? LA college, Bertka, UNC. Do it Mitch. |
Too many coincidences for this to happen. I'm now positive the Lakers will opt to NOT do the obvious thing and will pass on Oliver. |
Wouldn't surprise me at all. |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 10:10 am Post subject: |
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He is 46, the Lakers should go after a younger analytics guy who can grow up with Clarkson, Randle, and Russell the next 12 years.
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Kobe Jocker
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| Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 10:20 am Post subject: Re: Dean Oliver, should the Lakers go after him? |
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| Vic5150 wrote: | | Wit Dean Oliver parting ways with the Kings today, should the Lakers go after him? With all the talk about the Lakers beefing up their analytics department it seems to only make sense to go after the "father of NBA analytics". I'm interested in everyone's thoughts and opinions on this. |
Hell no. Not a fan of this guy. 
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Vic5150
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| Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 10:22 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | He is 46, the Lakers should go after a younger analytics guy who can grow up with Clarkson, Randle, and Russell the next 12 years. |
He could just hire a younger guy to work with him until he's ready to retire. |
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Kobe Jocker
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| Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 10:23 am Post subject: |
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BTW, how have the Kings done with Oliver on staff? Analytics is a side tool, nothing more.
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 10:25 am Post subject: |
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| Kobe Jocker wrote: | | BTW, how have the Kings done with Oliver on staff? Analytics is a side tool, nothing more. |
Who's asking for more than analytics to be used as a tool? We will still rely on actual scouting and to have an analytics side that can also help is a bonus, not a drag.
Conversely, you can also ask how the Spurs, Warriors, Heat, Dallas have done using analytics as of late too.
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SaintStephen
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| Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 10:28 am Post subject: |
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| Kobe Jocker wrote: | | BTW, how have the Kings done with Oliver on staff? Analytics is a side tool, nothing more. |
Besides the fact that nobody here is saying Oliver should take over as some sort of unquestioned dictator in the front office, he was only there one season, during which it seems his contributions may not have been valued anyway. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 10:36 am Post subject: |
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| SaintStephen wrote: | | Kobe Jocker wrote: | | BTW, how have the Kings done with Oliver on staff? Analytics is a side tool, nothing more. |
Besides the fact that nobody here is saying Oliver should take over as some sort of unquestioned dictator in the front office, he was only there one season, during which it seems his contributions may not have been valued anyway. |
Probably why he's being dumped so unceremoniously. I thought when the Kings got him it was a coup, but it turns out the Kings are just a mess. They have Vlade (who has no real GM experience) running things, and now he wants to bring in Peja?
Enough said. That's even more dinosaur age than the Lakers.
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Outspoken
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| Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 10:41 am Post subject: |
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| LakersMD wrote: | | Outspoken wrote: | | What have he done for the kings? |
He was just hired in September 2014. Divac is cleaning house and removing all the previous front office guys, rightly or wrongly. |
What are his accolades? |
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SaintStephen
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| Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 10:45 am Post subject: |
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| Outspoken wrote: | | LakersMD wrote: | | Outspoken wrote: | | What have he done for the kings? |
He was just hired in September 2014. Divac is cleaning house and removing all the previous front office guys, rightly or wrongly. |
What are his accolades? |
GT already said in this thread, he literally wrote the book on modern basketball analytics. It's called Basketball on Paper. He's viewed by many as the Bill James of basketball. |
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JerryMagicKobe
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| Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 10:49 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Quote: | | He played Division III collegiate basketball at the historically win-challenged Caltech, graduating with honors with a degree in engineering there in 1990, and served as an assistant coach for the team beginning as a junior. He earned a Ph.D. in statistical applications in environmental science at the University of North Carolina in 1994 while scouting for Bertka Views, a scouting organization run by then Laker assistant coach, Bill Bertka. |
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dean_Oliver_(statistician)
1. Played at Cal-Tech...local school.
2. Worked with Bill Bertka!!!
3. earned a PHD at North Carolina.
I mean Mitch, do we need more??? LA college, Bertka, UNC. Do it Mitch. |
Tailor made fit for the FO and gives the team exactly what is needed. |
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JerryMagicKobe
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| Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 10:51 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | He is 46, the Lakers should go after a younger analytics guy who can grow up with Clarkson, Randle, and Russell the next 12 years. |
His data strongly suggests that the prime years for someone in his position is from 46-58.
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 10:54 am Post subject: |
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| JerryMagicKobe wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Quote: | | He played Division III collegiate basketball at the historically win-challenged Caltech, graduating with honors with a degree in engineering there in 1990, and served as an assistant coach for the team beginning as a junior. He earned a Ph.D. in statistical applications in environmental science at the University of North Carolina in 1994 while scouting for Bertka Views, a scouting organization run by then Laker assistant coach, Bill Bertka. |
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dean_Oliver_(statistician)
1. Played at Cal-Tech...local school.
2. Worked with Bill Bertka!!!
3. earned a PHD at North Carolina.
I mean Mitch, do we need more??? LA college, Bertka, UNC. Do it Mitch. |
Tailor made fit for the FO and gives the team exactly what is needed. |
You need to highly "publicize" your analytics department, well, this is how you'd do that in 1 move. He'd then hire his staff and boom, 5-7 years worth of institutional knowledge encapsulated in the guy who basically spearheaded the movement.
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Kobe Jocker
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| Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 11:20 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Kobe Jocker wrote: | | BTW, how have the Kings done with Oliver on staff? Analytics is a side tool, nothing more. |
Who's asking for more than analytics to be used as a tool? We will still rely on actual scouting and to have an analytics side that can also help is a bonus, not a drag.
Conversely, you can also ask how the Spurs, Warriors, Heat, Dallas have done using analytics as of late too. |
The Spurs built that team on old school philosophy, and there's nothing wrong with using analytics as a tool to help. GSW had West helping didn't they?. Miami had 3 superstars. Dallas has one great run, and an epic Lebron meltdown.
Analytics was not the major force behind these teams anyway. Which is why I call it a tool. And Dean Oliver is not high on my list due to his win share crap, and many of the philosophies he holds. He's barely above Hollinger in my book.
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Last edited by Kobe Jocker on Mon Jul 27, 2015 11:22 am; edited 1 time in total |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 11:21 am Post subject: |
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| Kobe Jocker wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Kobe Jocker wrote: | | BTW, how have the Kings done with Oliver on staff? Analytics is a side tool, nothing more. |
Who's asking for more than analytics to be used as a tool? We will still rely on actual scouting and to have an analytics side that can also help is a bonus, not a drag.
Conversely, you can also ask how the Spurs, Warriors, Heat, Dallas have done using analytics as of late too. |
The Spurs built that team on ond school philosophy,a nd there's nothing wrong with using analytics as a tool to help. GSW had West helping didn't they?. Miami had 3 superstars. Dallas has one great run, and an epic Lebron meltdown.
Analytics was not the major force behind these teams anyway. Which is why I call it a tool. And Dean Oliver is not high on my list due to his win share crap, and many of the philosophies he holds. He's barely above Hollinger in my book. |
So what's your beef then with having preside over one department? That's all he's doing. Mitch would still be the GM.
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Zhengi
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| Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 11:22 am Post subject: |
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Do it Mitch!!
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Kobe Jocker
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| Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 11:23 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Kobe Jocker wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Kobe Jocker wrote: | | BTW, how have the Kings done with Oliver on staff? Analytics is a side tool, nothing more. |
Who's asking for more than analytics to be used as a tool? We will still rely on actual scouting and to have an analytics side that can also help is a bonus, not a drag.
Conversely, you can also ask how the Spurs, Warriors, Heat, Dallas have done using analytics as of late too. |
The Spurs built that team on ond school philosophy,a nd there's nothing wrong with using analytics as a tool to help. GSW had West helping didn't they?. Miami had 3 superstars. Dallas has one great run, and an epic Lebron meltdown.
Analytics was not the major force behind these teams anyway. Which is why I call it a tool. And Dean Oliver is not high on my list due to his win share crap, and many of the philosophies he holds. He's barely above Hollinger in my book. |
So what's your beef then with having preside over one department? That's all he's doing. Mitch would still be the GM. |
I'm not a fan of Dean Oliver. Lakers should pass on his advice.
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 11:25 am Post subject: |
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| Kobe Jocker wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Kobe Jocker wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Kobe Jocker wrote: | | BTW, how have the Kings done with Oliver on staff? Analytics is a side tool, nothing more. |
Who's asking for more than analytics to be used as a tool? We will still rely on actual scouting and to have an analytics side that can also help is a bonus, not a drag.
Conversely, you can also ask how the Spurs, Warriors, Heat, Dallas have done using analytics as of late too. |
The Spurs built that team on ond school philosophy,a nd there's nothing wrong with using analytics as a tool to help. GSW had West helping didn't they?. Miami had 3 superstars. Dallas has one great run, and an epic Lebron meltdown.
Analytics was not the major force behind these teams anyway. Which is why I call it a tool. And Dean Oliver is not high on my list due to his win share crap, and many of the philosophies he holds. He's barely above Hollinger in my book. |
So what's your beef then with having preside over one department? That's all he's doing. Mitch would still be the GM. |
I'm not a fan of Dean Oliver. Lakers should pass on his advice. |
Well, Lakers finally got the memo and are now going to beef up their analytics department. We'll see whose advice they lean on now.
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dcarter4kobe
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| Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 11:27 am Post subject: |
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| JerryMagicKobe wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | He is 46, the Lakers should go after a younger analytics guy who can grow up with Clarkson, Randle, and Russell the next 12 years. |
His data strongly suggests that the prime years for someone in his position is from 46-58.
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Not like he would be out running the court with the young guns 
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