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lakersken80
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 Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 11:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Gwyn wrote: | That cop was extremely fast on the trigger.
I don't understand why people insist on (bleep) with cops.
Just (bleep) do what they say, or you risk losing your life.
That moron (bleep) up the moment he turned on the ignition.
And to those who say that driver wasn't a risk if he got away. Idiots who are being chased by cops in cars aren't the most rational or careful people. They are only thinking about getting away, not about any bystanders who may be around. |
Both the officer and civilian screwed up....unfortunately, for the civilian the officer was armed and was trigger happy so he ended up dead. |
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jodeke
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| Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 7:24 am Post subject: |
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| Gwyn wrote: | That cop was extremely fast on the trigger.
I don't understand why people insist on (bleep) with cops.
Just (bleep) do what they say, or you risk losing your life.
That moron (bleep) up the moment he turned on the ignition.
And to those who say that driver wasn't a risk if he got away. Idiots who are being chased by cops in cars aren't the most rational or careful people. They are only thinking about getting away, not about any bystanders who may be around. |
He wasn't a danger Tensing should have let him go. He had his plate number, his body cam would have been enough to arrest him at a later date. " | Quote: | | This guy didn't deserve to be tased and he certainly didn't deserve to be shot in the head," Deters said of DuBose. |
| Quote: | | The officer "wasn't dealing with someone who was wanted for murder," Deters said. "He was dealing with someone without a front license plate." |
| Quote: | Deters called what sparked the shooting a "chicken-crap stop."
"I could have used harsher words," he said. |
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Kobeskillz
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| Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 7:27 am Post subject: |
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“I have been doing this for 30 years," Deters said. "This is the most asinine act I have ever seen a police officer make.”
That's what it takes to charge a cop with murder. Otherwise it's near impossible.
Good. Hope they get him in prison murderous animal. |
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ContagiousInspiration
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| Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 7:36 am Post subject: |
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| I think Gwynn's comments can show that the officer if smart will say he shot him to kill and neutralize the danger to others since the man was drunk and wanted to elude a police officer.. *my comments are made without having watched any video. |
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Kobeskillz
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| Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 7:54 am Post subject: |
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| USCandLakers wrote: | | They need to start charging all of these bastards with whatever they would charge a citizen for committing the same acts. If it's assault, charge them with assault. If it's murder, charge them with murder. Don't allow them to use excuses to wiggle their way out of crimes. Their jobs shouldn't be the biggest thing at risk. |
Cops should be more severely charged. Kind of how military are hold to a higher standard cops if convicted (which is rare) should face far worse punishment than citizens. |
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Kobeskillz
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| Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 7:56 am Post subject: |
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| Gwyn wrote: | That cop was extremely fast on the trigger.
I don't understand why people insist on (bleep) with cops.
Just (bleep) do what they say, or you risk losing your life.
That moron (bleep) up the moment he turned on the ignition.
And to those who say that driver wasn't a risk if he got away. Idiots who are being chased by cops in cars aren't the most rational or careful people. They are only thinking about getting away, not about any bystanders who may be around. |
Here comes the cop defenders who believe you should lose your life if you do anything wrong.
Yes you should listen to cops but if you don't you pay the price as far as jail time, fines etc. NOT WITH YOUR LIFE. |
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ContagiousInspiration
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| Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 8:39 am Post subject: |
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| Kobeskillz wrote: | | Gwyn wrote: | That cop was extremely fast on the trigger.
I don't understand why people insist on (bleep) with cops.
Just (bleep) do what they say, or you risk losing your life.
That moron (bleep) up the moment he turned on the ignition.
And to those who say that driver wasn't a risk if he got away. Idiots who are being chased by cops in cars aren't the most rational or careful people. They are only thinking about getting away, not about any bystanders who may be around. |
Here comes the cop defenders who believe you should lose your life if you do anything wrong.
Yes you should listen to cops but if you don't you pay the price as far as jail time, fines etc. NOT WITH YOUR LIFE. |
nah, not defending them...just pointing out the terrible fact that they will kill you if you upset them..
If still have a lot of trouble accepting the Garner verdict. That was murder just as much as this one. But NY has too many cops and they wouldn't let one of theirs go down. See they think they are above the law. |
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Nnamdi21
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| Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 8:40 am Post subject: |
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| hard to tell what happened in the video. did the guy try to take off and was shot for that reason only? or was there something else going on right before he got shot? |
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jodeke
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| Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 8:44 am Post subject: |
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Dubose shares some culpability but nothing near the level of Tensing.
He should have fessed up about his license, answering if he had or didn't have a valid one. He'd been drinking. He shouldn't have tied to take off. These are givens but neither are reasons enough to be shot in the head.
Lesing was not in danger in the inception, he put himself in danger. He shouldn't have reached into Dubose's car, that put him in a position of danger that could have been avoided. He used excessive force. There was no need to use a service revolver.
On a scale of 1 to 10 I give Dubose 1 for trying to leave the scene and not fully cooperating, Tensing 10 for a unnecessary stop and excessive use of force.
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Last edited by jodeke on Thu Jul 30, 2015 8:48 am; edited 1 time in total |
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ContagiousInspiration
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| Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 8:47 am Post subject: |
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| Did dubose try to leave only after the cop tried to open his door? Maybe the black man had sincere fear for his life? |
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jodeke
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| Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 9:06 am Post subject: |
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| ContagiousInspiration wrote: | | Did dubose try to leave only after the cop tried to open his door? Maybe the black man had sincere fear for his life? |
Let me preface, I'm not a Tensing advocate, I'm looking at both sides, trying to be objective.
In today's climate he may have been in fear for his life.
I think he was trying to leave because he'd been drinking and didn't have a valid drivers license.
Looking at the situation objectively IMO he should have answered the question about his license and faced the consequences for drinking and driving.
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Kobeskillz
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| Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 9:37 am Post subject: |
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| jodeke wrote: | | ContagiousInspiration wrote: | | Did dubose try to leave only after the cop tried to open his door? Maybe the black man had sincere fear for his life? |
Let me preface, I'm not a Tensing advocate, I'm looking at both sides, trying to be objective.
In today's climate he may have been in fear for his life.
I think he was trying to leave because he'd been drinking and didn't have a valid drivers license.
Looking at the situation objectively IMO he should have answered the question about his license and faced the consequences for drinking and driving. |
I agree that he handled it wrong and should have stayed instead of trying to possibly flee.
With that said I feel its still murder because there was no reason to kill him and he could have been arrested later and paid the price.
There are so many things the cop could have done instead of just blasting away. Again cops should be held to a higher standard. |
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jodeke
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| Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 10:20 am Post subject: |
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^^^^^^ Prosecutors agree with you. Mark O'Mara is the Dubose family lawyer.
$1M bond set for officer charged with murder
LINK
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Aussiesuede
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| Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 12:08 pm Post subject: |
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| jodeke wrote: | | Aussiesuede wrote: | | jodeke wrote: | | jonnybravo wrote: | | jodeke wrote: | ^^^^^ Thanks. I see now he shot Doubose when he took off. The reason he cashed was he expired.
It's my understanding you only shoot a fleeing subject if you think he poses a threat to you or the community. I don't believe Dubose was either.
He may have taken off to avoid a DUI. He had a open gin bottle in the car. |
He wasn't even fleeing  . Guy was probably scared (bleep) to be DWB and after getting shot to death, he had every reason to be. |
He was fleeing. He started his car, stepped on the gas and was leaving. He was trying to get away from Tensing. To coin a movie phrase he said to himself "Let's Fled." |
Actually, to be factually correct, it was obvious that he desired to flee, but he never actually got the opportunity. If you watch the video in slow-motion sequence and pause it between 2:11 & 2:14, you can see the same thing the Grand Jury saw.
1) He turns ignition key
2) He puts hand on gear shift
3) He see's gun in officers right hand as the officers left hand reaches across his body.
4) You hear gunshot from officer BEFORE you hear the engine rev.
5) He falls into passenger seat.
6) Car accelerates away
By the sound of the reving engine, it's very likely he was killed instantly by the gunshot to the head. When the gunshot occurred, the car was not moving, nor was the engine revved. The grand jury likely drew the conclusion that the gunshot caused his body to go limp and with his foot resting at the ready on the accelerator, the dead weight caused the continued uninterrupted acceleration down the street until the telephone pole stopped him. His foot was still full on the accelerator by the time the officers caught up to the vehicle, as evidenced by the rhytmic revving of the engine (that's the sound of an engine redlining and hitting it's governor)
The reason they are going after a murder charge is because the shot occurred before any potential "Dragging" could take place ie, the officer wasn't in eminent danger WHEN he squeezed the trigger. The squeezing of the trigger is what precipitated the runaway car. (Even though it's obvious that Mr Dubose was thinking about fleeing - he still had an opportunity to gain a moment of sanity and decide not to. He never got that opportunity.
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I thought Ihttp://basketball.fantasysports.yahoo.com/nba/111294 heard someone say "I'm hit" twice. If that was Dubose he didn't die instantly. |
Nope. That wasn't Dubose. Here is an analysis done by a lawyer, including a slow motion video,and some frame by frame pictures. You can clearly see in the background a truck parked to the right of Dubose's car both before and after the gunshot. The car was not moving until after the gunshot. And in the frame by frame, you can see the head of Dubose snap back immediately after the gunshot, and no furthur movement.
Slo Mo & Frame By Frame
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I'm On point, On task, On message, and Off drugs. A Streetwise Smart Bomb, Out of rehab and In denial. Over the Top, On the edge, Under the Radar, and In Control. Behind the 8 ball, Ahead of the Curve and I've got a Love Child who sends me Hate mail. |
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jodeke
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| Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 12:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Aussiesuede wrote: | | jodeke wrote: | | Aussiesuede wrote: | | jodeke wrote: | | jonnybravo wrote: | | jodeke wrote: | ^^^^^ Thanks. I see now he shot Doubose when he took off. The reason he cashed was he expired.
It's my understanding you only shoot a fleeing subject if you think he poses a threat to you or the community. I don't believe Dubose was either.
He may have taken off to avoid a DUI. He had a open gin bottle in the car. |
He wasn't even fleeing . Guy was probably scared (bleep) to be DWB and after getting shot to death, he had every reason to be. |
He was fleeing. He started his car, stepped on the gas and was leaving. He was trying to get away from Tensing. To coin a movie phrase he said to himself "Let's Fled." |
Actually, to be factually correct, it was obvious that he desired to flee, but he never actually got the opportunity. If you watch the video in slow-motion sequence and pause it between 2:11 & 2:14, you can see the same thing the Grand Jury saw.
1) He turns ignition key
2) He puts hand on gear shift
3) He see's gun in officers right hand as the officers left hand reaches across his body.
4) You hear gunshot from officer BEFORE you hear the engine rev.
5) He falls into passenger seat.
6) Car accelerates away
By the sound of the reving engine, it's very likely he was killed instantly by the gunshot to the head. When the gunshot occurred, the car was not moving, nor was the engine revved. The grand jury likely drew the conclusion that the gunshot caused his body to go limp and with his foot resting at the ready on the accelerator, the dead weight caused the continued uninterrupted acceleration down the street until the telephone pole stopped him. His foot was still full on the accelerator by the time the officers caught up to the vehicle, as evidenced by the rhytmic revving of the engine (that's the sound of an engine redlining and hitting it's governor)
The reason they are going after a murder charge is because the shot occurred before any potential "Dragging" could take place ie, the officer wasn't in eminent danger WHEN he squeezed the trigger. The squeezing of the trigger is what precipitated the runaway car. (Even though it's obvious that Mr Dubose was thinking about fleeing - he still had an opportunity to gain a moment of sanity and decide not to. He never got that opportunity.
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I thought Ihttp://basketball.fantasysports.yahoo.com/nba/111294 heard someone say "I'm hit" twice. If that was Dubose he didn't die instantly. |
Nope. That wasn't Dubose. Here is an analysis done by a lawyer, including a slow motion video,and some frame by frame pictures. You can clearly see in the background a truck parked to the right of Dubose's car both before and after the gunshot. The car was not moving until after the gunshot. And in the frame by frame, you can see the head of Dubose snap back immediately after the gunshot, and no furthur movement.
Slo Mo & Frame By Frame |
Thanks. I think we have before us a case that will return a guilty verdict.
I also believe Encinia will get the minimum 15 years.
After watching the video I'm beginning to see what CI was talking about, Dubose may have been fleeing in fear of his life. He seems to be holding his left arm up as if to shield himself from a bullet.
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Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.
Last edited by jodeke on Thu Jul 30, 2015 12:57 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Theseus
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| Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 12:55 pm Post subject: |
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I would defend this cop if I could, but this is indefensible.
Never try to run away from a cop though, I wish people wouldn't do that. If you fear for your life from a cop, don't make it worse for yourself by trying to run! They really will kill you then and call it justified |
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jodeke
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| Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 1:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Shlumpledink wrote: | I would defend this cop if I could, but this is indefensible.
Never try to run away from a cop though, I wish people wouldn't do that. If you fear for your life from a cop, don't make it worse for yourself by trying to run! They really will kill you then and call it justified |
Wait for it, Wait for it. 
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America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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Aussiesuede
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| Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 3:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Former University of Cincinnati police officer charged with murder in the shooting death of a man he pulled over for a missing front license plate pleaded not guilty in court Thursday and was out of jail on bond less than eight hours later. |
Officer Released on Bond After 8 hours Behind Bars on a Murder Charge. Sandra Bland in Jail for 3 Days for Turn Signal
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 5:34 pm Post subject: |
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Bonding out is part of the routine even in a murder case, unless there is sufficient reason to believe the person charged is a flight risk. |
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Aussiesuede
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| Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 5:45 pm Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: |
Bonding out is part of the routine even in a murder case, unless there is sufficient reason to believe the person charged is a flight risk. |
Yes, but the commercial Bail Bonds system (which is illegal on 99% of the globe) is a ruinous system. It causes people to lose employment, housing,and presents a needless impediment to those who have not even been convicted of a crime. Studies have clearly shown that a bond does not play any considerable role in either compelling people to show up in court, nor to not show up in court. 2/3rds of people currently sitting in a County jail cell in the US are ONLY there because they can't afford a bond, NOT because they are a threat to the community. Losing jobs and housing simply because they can't afford an arbitrary bond is counterproductive, and increase the chance that someone will commit crime simply to try to keep their head above water. It's a senseless, antiquated, and overly punitive system that has no place in modern society. Only the US & the Philipines still use such a dumb system.
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I'm On point, On task, On message, and Off drugs. A Streetwise Smart Bomb, Out of rehab and In denial. Over the Top, On the edge, Under the Radar, and In Control. Behind the 8 ball, Ahead of the Curve and I've got a Love Child who sends me Hate mail. |
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jodeke
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| Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 5:53 pm Post subject: |
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He was able to post bond. Sandra wasn't. Had she been able she would also have been released.
I'm surprised Tensing was able to raise $100,000 for his $1,000,000 bail. Did the judge reduce it?
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America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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Aussiesuede
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| Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 6:02 pm Post subject: |
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| jodeke wrote: |
He was able to post bond. Sandra wasn't. Had she been able she would also have been released.
I'm surprised Tensing was able to raise $100,000 for his $1,000,000 bail. Did the judge reduce it? |
That's a piss poor reason for someone who has not been convicted of a crime to have their liberty taken away. The standard should be : Threat to the community or not? A person who is willing to take the life of another human being is clearly a greater threat than someone who is willing to change lanes without signaling. Sandra Bland had no business being in a jail cell after her arraignment. The whole 1800's era Bond system is overly punitive and without justification. Self interest is the greatest determinent in compelling the accused to participate in the judicial process. The overwhelming majority of people show up for court whether released on bond, or their own recognisance.
20% of people with no bond fail to show up for court.
18% of people with a bond fail to show up for court.
The state of Kentucky outlawed bonds 4 decades ago and still the overwhelming majority of people show up for court. Washington DC did the same in 1992, with the exact same results as Kentucky. All bonds do is furthur disenfranchise those least able to afford to pay the pointless fee.
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I'm On point, On task, On message, and Off drugs. A Streetwise Smart Bomb, Out of rehab and In denial. Over the Top, On the edge, Under the Radar, and In Control. Behind the 8 ball, Ahead of the Curve and I've got a Love Child who sends me Hate mail. |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 6:21 pm Post subject: |
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| The bond process is merely the first phase of a system designed to monetize the theoretical application of justice. It is the first wheel in a cog that financially ruins even innocent defendants, inversely proportional to their income. |
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jodeke
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| Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 6:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Aussiesuede wrote: | | jodeke wrote: |
He was able to post bond. Sandra wasn't. Had she been able she would also have been released.
I'm surprised Tensing was able to raise $100,000 for his $1,000,000 bail. Did the judge reduce it? |
That's a piss poor reason for someone who has not been convicted of a crime to have their liberty taken away. The standard should be : Threat to the community or not? A person who is willing to take the life of another human being is clearly a greater threat than someone who is willing to change lanes without signaling. Sandra Bland had no business being in a jail cell after her arraignment. The whole 1800's era Bond system is overly punitive and without justification. Self interest is the greatest determinent in compelling the accused to participate in the judicial process. The overwhelming majority of people show up for court whether released on bond, or their own recognisance.
20% of people with no bond fail to show up for court.
18% of people with a bond fail to show up for court.
The state of Kentucky outlawed bonds 4 decades ago and still the overwhelming majority of people show up for court. Washington DC did the same in 1992, with the exact same results as Kentucky. All bonds do is furthur disenfranchise those least able to afford to pay the pointless fee. |
I think the right thing to do would have been to release Sandra on OR.
Tensing was fired. In my mind that makes him a flight risk.
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America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 7:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Aussiesuede wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: |
Bonding out is part of the routine even in a murder case, unless there is sufficient reason to believe the person charged is a flight risk. |
Yes, but the commercial Bail Bonds system (which is illegal on 99% of the globe) is a ruinous system. It causes people to lose employment, housing,and presents a needless impediment to those who have not even been convicted of a crime. Studies have clearly shown that a bond does not play any considerable role in either compelling people to show up in court, nor to not show up in court. 2/3rds of people currently sitting in a County jail cell in the US are ONLY there because they can't afford a bond, NOT because they are a threat to the community. Losing jobs and housing simply because they can't afford an arbitrary bond is counterproductive, and increase the chance that someone will commit crime simply to try to keep their head above water. It's a senseless, antiquated, and overly punitive system that has no place in modern society. Only the US & the Philipines still use such a dumb system. |
I certainly agree that the judicial system in regards to incarceration as it stands now is inherently broken along with the whole privatized/industrialized approach to our prison system.
My point was that he wasn't cut any breaks in regards to how the system works - especially if we are going to apply "innocent until proven guilty" across the board to include scumbags we dislike and want to see go down.
What happened to Sandra Bland was tragic and problematic on many fronts, and it's an entirely different case in a different jurisdiction. I have no problem with the criticisms there, that's not my point.
My point is, in regards to how Tensig has been handled as far as charges and bonding, it has been as one would hope - he's being held accountable by the DA. That's far more can be said for 99% of other officer involved shootings.
The largess of the broken system is a whole other matter. |
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