Joined: 29 Aug 2004 Posts: 11197 Location: The Other Perspective
Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 10:33 pm Post subject:
It's a bit of a miracle they were able to reconcile and win those last two rings. Glad they were able to do it. _________________ "Chick lived and breathed Lakers basketball…but he was also fair and objective and called every game the way it was played."
-from Chick: His Unpublished Memoirs and the Memories of Those Who Knew Him
Joined: 19 Nov 2007 Posts: 4369 Location: Lake Nacimiento
Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 1:15 am Post subject:
even though where they got this one sound bite from was taken a bit out of context since much of the time he spoke highly of kobe.. even then, this is one of the main reasons i didnt want phil in the lakers front office.. he will continue to put himself in the spotlight whether it is intentionally or not and personally I do not want my teams front office guys consistently making headlines especially when he isn't even doing his job very well thus far...
It's a bit of a miracle they were able to reconcile and win those last two rings. Glad they were able to do it.
Credit to Kobe by all accounts. Phil was always the one taking shots at Kobe, favoring Shaq during his first tenure, and then trashing him in books.
I always thought Kobe never got the respect Jordan got from Phil. It may have been the Zen at work to get the optimum performance out of Kobe, I thought Kobe always handled the zen bs with class.
by no mean i'm a fan of Phil Jackson, you all can go check my previous posts, i'm a huge critic of him for playing useless mind games, and influenced Mitch into drafting those triangle fit guys: Puke, Cook, etc. i also think he has a hand in the current sibling in-fighting between Jeannie and Jim. but with all these said, Phil nailed it perfectly in his book about Kobe. everything he said about Kobe is true, but some people just need to take off their homer glasses to see them.
It's a bit of a miracle they were able to reconcile and win those last two rings. Glad they were able to do it.
Credit to Kobe by all accounts. Phil was always the one taking shots at Kobe, favoring Shaq during his first tenure, and then trashing him in books.
And he did that because Shaq's huge ego needed it. He simply refused to play for Del Harris, and often complained to Jerry West about how much the Lakers babied Kobe. He was super jealous. Phil doing what he did was horrible for Kobe, but great for Shaq and the overall team success. He stopped doing it the moment Shaq left town. The bottom line is Phil isn't a guy you bring in to do things pretty, he gets the job done. I saw a long Kobe interview a few months ago and he was talking about how greatful he was that he had Phil as his coach in his career. He knows why Phil did it, and he didn't care for it nor think it was needed, but I do think it was needed for Shaq's huge ego at the time.
Joined: 29 Aug 2004 Posts: 11197 Location: The Other Perspective
Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 7:40 am Post subject:
OshadowO wrote:
LandsbergerRules wrote:
It's a bit of a miracle they were able to reconcile and win those last two rings. Glad they were able to do it.
Credit to Kobe by all accounts. Phil was always the one taking shots at Kobe, favoring Shaq during his first tenure, and then trashing him in books.
Nah, all credit doesn't go to Kobe like Kobe jockers say and certainly all credit doesn't go to Phil like Phil worshippers would insist. Bottom line, both of these guys are arrogant and not the easiest guys to get along with, but these two realized they needed each other to do the one thing they both hold so dear: win more rings.
Phil and Kobe have given the Laker org many headaches throughout the years, but ultimately, when you are as good at what you do as they are, it was absolutely worth all of it. For players and coaches who do not have their level of talent (Rondo for example), not so much. _________________ "Chick lived and breathed Lakers basketball…but he was also fair and objective and called every game the way it was played."
-from Chick: His Unpublished Memoirs and the Memories of Those Who Knew Him
Joined: 29 Aug 2004 Posts: 11197 Location: The Other Perspective
Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 7:43 am Post subject:
wolfpaclaker wrote:
OshadowO wrote:
LandsbergerRules wrote:
It's a bit of a miracle they were able to reconcile and win those last two rings. Glad they were able to do it.
Credit to Kobe by all accounts. Phil was always the one taking shots at Kobe, favoring Shaq during his first tenure, and then trashing him in books.
And he did that because Shaq's huge ego needed it. He simply refused to play for Del Harris, and often complained to Jerry West about how much the Lakers babied Kobe. He was super jealous. Phil doing what he did was horrible for Kobe, but great for Shaq and the overall team success. He stopped doing it the moment Shaq left town. The bottom line is Phil isn't a guy you bring in to do things pretty, he gets the job done. I saw a long Kobe interview a few months ago and he was talking about how greatful he was that he had Phil as his coach in his career. He knows why Phil did it, and he didn't care for it nor think it was needed, but I do think it was needed for Shaq's huge ego at the time.
Agreed. Shaq never grew out of being a sensitive, immature prima donna while Kobe was always tough enough to handle being the one picked on. Phil did what he needed to do to get them to win rings together and he didn't care about either one as people, really. _________________ "Chick lived and breathed Lakers basketball…but he was also fair and objective and called every game the way it was played."
-from Chick: His Unpublished Memoirs and the Memories of Those Who Knew Him
I had a ton of respect for Phil during his coaching years but he's lost all of that in the time since then. He reminds me of Ned Flanders description of Lisa Simpson: "Always eager to answer the question that no one asked." _________________ Lakers, today. Lakers, tomorrow. Lakers, forever.
And he did that because Shaq's huge ego needed it. He simply refused to play for Del Harris, and often complained to Jerry West about how much the Lakers babied Kobe. He was super jealous. Phil doing what he did was horrible for Kobe, but great for Shaq and the overall team success. He stopped doing it the moment Shaq left town.
First of all, he didn't stop it when Shaq left town. You will recall he wrote that character assassination book after he left town. So he was still sniping at Kobe before he came back to the team.
Secondly, yes, I know we all tell ourselves that story that he did what needed to be done...but did he really? He actually blew up a dynasty that could have kept going several more years. For all his "motivating" of Shaq, Phil couldn't keep Shaq in shape. And for all his genius ego handling, he couldn't maintain control of the ship for more than a few years at a time. Who's to say that someone who isn't a total jerk like Pop couldn't have kept this team competitive the entire span of Shaq and Kobe's careers?
We can't take anything away from Phil's accomplishments, but now that we're years removed, we can be honest about the toxicity he fostered in the locker room and the organization.
It's a bit of a miracle they were able to reconcile and win those last two rings. Glad they were able to do it.
Credit to Kobe by all accounts. Phil was always the one taking shots at Kobe, favoring Shaq during his first tenure, and then trashing him in books.
And he did that because Shaq's huge ego needed it. He simply refused to play for Del Harris, and often complained to Jerry West about how much the Lakers babied Kobe. He was super jealous. Phil doing what he did was horrible for Kobe, but great for Shaq and the overall team success. He stopped doing it the moment Shaq left town. The bottom line is Phil isn't a guy you bring in to do things pretty, he gets the job done. I saw a long Kobe interview a few months ago and he was talking about how greatful he was that he had Phil as his coach in his career. He knows why Phil did it, and he didn't care for it nor think it was needed, but I do think it was needed for Shaq's huge ego at the time.
Agreed. Shaq never grew out of being a sensitive, immature prima donna while Kobe was always tough enough to handle being the one picked on. Phil did what he needed to do to get them to win rings together and he didn't care about either one as people, really.
One could argue that inflating Shaq's already massive ego while isolating the already solitary Kobe Bryant actually accelerated their split and was the exact opposite of what should have been done.
Joined: 29 Aug 2004 Posts: 11197 Location: The Other Perspective
Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 9:26 am Post subject:
JerryMagicKobe wrote:
One could argue that inflating Shaq's already massive ego while isolating the already solitary Kobe Bryant actually accelerated their split and was the exact opposite of what should have been done.
I'll have to disagree. With or without Phil, Shaq was lazy and did not maximize his physical abilities. Might have gotten even moreso without Phil actually. That doomed a solid relationship with a workaholic winner like Kobe from the start. _________________ "Chick lived and breathed Lakers basketball…but he was also fair and objective and called every game the way it was played."
-from Chick: His Unpublished Memoirs and the Memories of Those Who Knew Him
One could argue that inflating Shaq's already massive ego while isolating the already solitary Kobe Bryant actually accelerated their split and was the exact opposite of what should have been done.
I'll have to disagree. With or without Phil, Shaq was lazy and did not maximize his physical abilities. Might have gotten even moreso without Phil actually. That doomed a solid relationship with a workaholic winner like Kobe from the start.
Perhaps. Yet the last time Shaq won a ring was after the Lakers dumped him to keep Kobe (ego down a notch), he accepted less money from Riley (ego down another notch) and finally got himself in shape. Who knows if things could have been different if Shaq had been challenged by Phil instead of pampered.
And he did that because Shaq's huge ego needed it. He simply refused to play for Del Harris, and often complained to Jerry West about how much the Lakers babied Kobe. He was super jealous. Phil doing what he did was horrible for Kobe, but great for Shaq and the overall team success. He stopped doing it the moment Shaq left town.
First of all, he didn't stop it when Shaq left town. You will recall he wrote that character assassination book after he left town. So he was still sniping at Kobe before he came back to the team.
Secondly, yes, I know we all tell ourselves that story that he did what needed to be done...but did he really? He actually blew up a dynasty that could have kept going several more years. For all his "motivating" of Shaq, Phil couldn't keep Shaq in shape. And for all his genius ego handling, he couldn't maintain control of the ship for more than a few years at a time. Who's to say that someone who isn't a total jerk like Pop couldn't have kept this team competitive the entire span of Shaq and Kobe's careers?
We can't take anything away from Phil's accomplishments, but now that we're years removed, we can be honest about the toxicity he fostered in the locker room and the organization.
Phil was savvy enough to create and perpetuate the myth that he's a master manipulator of egos. A closer look reveals he hurt in that regard a lot more than he helped. I actually think his personality and the way he deals with people is his worst quality as a coach.
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