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SuperboyReformed
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Joined: 07 Oct 2012
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 Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 9:03 pm Post subject: Has Kobe ever played off of screens before? |
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Something I was thinking of recently is that Kobe has never really used a lot of screens in his career. Not nearly as much as just about every other top tier guy. So, is that true? Has there been a season where Kobe used screens a lot?
I don't think sol. And if that's the case, it means we've never really seen him play with screens a lot. So if he has to dial back the ball handling and creator duties, can't he slide into a ray allen like role where he plays off of a lot of screens and still be able to score 20-25 a game? i still claim he's as good a 3 point shooter as any of the specialists...a spot up shooting role would be just perfect right now. spot up and post, that's it. maybe the power forward position for him will work out. |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 9:09 pm Post subject: |
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That would require him to play off ball.
Something I'd love him to do, been wanting it for years to extend him throughout a season, but no such luck yet. |
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30
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Joined: 20 Feb 2012
Posts: 4985
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| Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 9:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Go back to the season where we got Dwight and Nash and I think when we ran the Princeton offense for the first 5-6 games Kobe played off ball a lot, and he was really efficient. |
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fiendishoc
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Location: The (real) short corner
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| Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 9:40 pm Post subject: |
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He was a pretty bad shooter last year, even when wide open. He was 40% on 2's and 29% on 3's with no defender within 6+ feet of him, 28% on catch and shoot shots, and 26% on catch and shoot 3's.
Hopefully that was due to the shoulder, but it could also have been wear and tear on the legs. His best form of attack last season was drawing fouls and his passing. |
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THE_DAGGER
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Joined: 13 Feb 2006
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| Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2015 1:55 am Post subject: |
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He's come off screens to get into his iso's.
But, he's not a Ray Allen, Reggie Miller, Richard Hamilton type to run around and come off a bunch of screens to get an open spot up shot.
He just has more game than that. You can give him the ball and just say make something happen. His game isn't dependant on a good screen or an offense predicated on getting him an open shot.
I feel like the OP is implying him not coming off of screens to get his shots is a weakness. It's a weakness of these so called top tier players that they absolutely need to come off screens to be effective.
Sorry guys, the game hasn't evolved like most of you think. It's actually regressed in many ways. We've made all these rule changes and offensive changes to accommodate lesser players. Put, down the Kool-aid before it's too late. |
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Gwyn
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Joined: 11 Oct 2012
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| Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2015 3:01 am Post subject: |
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He will play offscreen hard this season with Russell taking the main role of distributor.
That guy will make Kobe's life so much more easy.
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2015 5:08 am Post subject: |
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| Gwyn wrote: | He will play offscreen hard this season with Russell taking the main role of distributor.
That guy will make Kobe's life so much more easy. |
I hope so. I think even Clarkson/Lou will also do the same.
It'll take some gumption to turn down Kobe barking for the ball, but once DLO hits Kobe in a sweet spot I hope all parties will understand how that will help Kobe.
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2015 6:35 am Post subject: |
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| fiendishoc wrote: | He was a pretty bad shooter last year, even when wide open. He was 40% on 2's and 29% on 3's with no defender within 6+ feet of him, 28% on catch and shoot shots, and 26% on catch and shoot 3's.
Hopefully that was due to the shoulder, but it could also have been wear and tear on the legs. His best form of attack last season was drawing fouls and his passing. |
I'd have to imagine a lot of those came how they have typically come. Off the ISO, after a series of dribbling and over a defender's hand.
If he plays off the ball, he'd be more wide open and I think we'd see better efficiency there. |
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Vin
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| Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2015 6:43 am Post subject: |
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| 30 wrote: | | Go back to the season where we got Dwight and Nash and I think when we ran the Princeton offense for the first 5-6 games Kobe played off ball a lot, and he was really efficient. |
Yeah he was. |
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fiendishoc
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| Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2015 7:45 am Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | fiendishoc wrote: | He was a pretty bad shooter last year, even when wide open. He was 40% on 2's and 29% on 3's with no defender within 6+ feet of him, 28% on catch and shoot shots, and 26% on catch and shoot 3's.
Hopefully that was due to the shoulder, but it could also have been wear and tear on the legs. His best form of attack last season was drawing fouls and his passing. |
I'd have to imagine a lot of those came how they have typically come. Off the ISO, after a series of dribbling and over a defender's hand.
If he plays off the ball, he'd be more wide open and I think we'd see better efficiency there. |
Those percentages with no defender within 6+ feet were pretty bad, both 2's and 3's. That's wide open. That said, I wouldn't expect a healthier Kobe, with less offensive burden to shoot that badly again. |
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greenfrog
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| Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2015 10:38 am Post subject: |
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| fiendishoc wrote: |
Those percentages with no defender within 6+ feet were pretty bad, both 2's and 3's. That's wide open. That said, I wouldn't expect a healthier Kobe, with less offensive burden to shoot that badly again. |
How about older? |
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greenfrog
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| Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2015 10:42 am Post subject: |
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| zePokar wrote: | | 30 wrote: | | Go back to the season where we got Dwight and Nash and I think when we ran the Princeton offense for the first 5-6 games Kobe played off ball a lot, and he was really efficient. |
Yeah he was. |
If memory serves correctly, he also played a lot with the ball during that short time. Particularly when the team got behind by a significant amount, which was often because they sucked, it was Kobe being classic ball dominant Kobe. |
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SuperboyReformed
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| Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2015 4:19 pm Post subject: |
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| greenfrog wrote: | | zePokar wrote: | | 30 wrote: | | Go back to the season where we got Dwight and Nash and I think when we ran the Princeton offense for the first 5-6 games Kobe played off ball a lot, and he was really efficient. |
Yeah he was. |
If memory serves correctly, he also played a lot with the ball during that short time. Particularly when the team got behind by a significant amount, which was often because they sucked, it was Kobe being classic ball dominant Kobe. |
Yes! I remember this now. He did kind of play the spot up shooter role and his efficiency was being talked about a lot. So then, I feel that confirms that he can really keep his high ppg with less effort if this is a focus for the team. |
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non-player zealot
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Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Posts: 21365
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| Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2015 5:23 pm Post subject: |
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| THE_DAGGER wrote: |
Sorry guys, the game hasn't evolved like most of you think. It's actually regressed in many ways. We've made all these rule changes and offensive changes to accommodate lesser players. Put, down the Kool-aid before it's too late. |
Wut/Vat? 
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30
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Joined: 20 Feb 2012
Posts: 4985
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| Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2015 9:33 pm Post subject: |
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Kobe Stats from 2012-2013 Season (Princeton Offense under Mike Brown where he played offball more)
Preseason Stats
| Code: | MIN FGM-FGA FG% 3PM-3PA 3P% FTM-FTA FT% REB AST BLK STL PF TO PTS
Fri 10/19
vsSAC
L 98-103 28 7-12 .583 0-0 .000 8-11 .727 6 4 0 1 0 3 22
Tue 10/16
vsUTAH
L 80-114 29 10-18 .556 4-6 .667 7-8 .875 5 2 1 1 2 3 31
Sat 10/13
vsUTAH
L 86-99 25 3-7 .429 0-0 .000 12-14 .857 8 5 1 2 2 3 18
Sun 10/7
vsGS
L 83-110 19 2-7 .286 0-2 .000 6-6 1.000 0 3 0 0 2 2 10 |
First 5 Games
| Code: | MIN FGM-FGA FG% 3PM-3PA 3P% FTM-FTA FT% REB AST BLK STL PF TO PTS
Wed 10/31
@ POR
L 106-116 38 10-20 .500 4-9 .444 6-7 .857 6 3 0 0 5 7 30
Tue 10/30
vsDAL
L 91-99 35 11-14 .786 0-0 .000 0-0 .000 1 0 0 1 3 2 22
Wed 11/7
@ UTAH
L 86-95 37 7-17 .412 0-4 .000 15-17 .882 5 4 0 3 3 6 29
Sun 11/4
vsDET
W 108-79 32 5-10 .500 3-5 .600 2-2 1.000 7 8 0 1 4 1 15
Fri 11/2
vsLAC
L 95-105 43 14-23 .609 2-3 .667 10-10 1.000 6 1 0 2 1 6 40 |
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LakerEric
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| Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2015 11:40 pm Post subject: |
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| He stubbornly prefers to attempt fadeaways. Now more frequent than ever. Beautiful when they are hitting but completely inefficient shot when it's not in the post. That and his penchant for dribbling through triple teams have been the most frustrating part of his career. He is great indeed and that stubbornness has won him titles. Still, he would've surpassed Jordan in titles and Lebron in stats if he was more efficient. His work ethic is on par with the greats ever but his penchant for controlling the ball as a non-point has been paralyzing many times during his great career. Off the ball he would've been a complete terror which is scary to think about. He never found that balance consistently. It is what it is. 5 titles in 7 tries is remarkable. Magic who was the most efficient ever was 5 of 9 tries but the HIV cut him short but he went against the great Larry Bird whose career was cut short as well with back problems. Bird was 3 for 5 and he was just as balanced as Magic. Kobe had the tools to be the best ever but IMHO didn't acknowledge his weaknesses and imposed his strengths to the utmost. Commendable and an all-time great but could've made it a ton easier on himself. |
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kobeandgary
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Joined: 18 Apr 2004
Posts: 6339
Location: Virginia
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| Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2015 1:48 am Post subject: |
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| LakerEric wrote: | | He stubbornly prefers to attempt fadeaways. Now more frequent than ever. Beautiful when they are hitting but completely inefficient shot when it's not in the post. That and his penchant for dribbling through triple teams have been the most frustrating part of his career. He is great indeed and that stubbornness has won him titles. Still, he would've surpassed Jordan in titles and Lebron in stats if he was more efficient. His work ethic is on par with the greats ever but his penchant for controlling the ball as a non-point has been paralyzing many times during his great career. Off the ball he would've been a complete terror which is scary to think about. He never found that balance consistently. It is what it is. 5 titles in 7 tries is remarkable. Magic who was the most efficient ever was 5 of 9 tries but the HIV cut him short but he went against the great Larry Bird whose career was cut short as well with back problems. Bird was 3 for 5 and he was just as balanced as Magic. Kobe had the tools to be the best ever but IMHO didn't acknowledge his weaknesses and imposed his strengths to the utmost. Commendable and an all-time great but could've made it a ton easier on himself. |
I don't believe Kobe ever played on a single team that would have won a ring with him being an off-ball player, and I believe if he hadn't played exactly like he did he would have won less. |
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non-player zealot
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| Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2015 2:22 am Post subject: |
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His first screen was set for him by Karl Malone in his first all star game and that worked out just fine if my memory serves me correctly. They gave each other dap after Kobe accepted the screen and hit the shot. Malone had nothing but nice things to say about Kobe's graciousness after the game.
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RI Laker
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Joined: 27 Jun 2005
Posts: 7148
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| Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2015 4:17 am Post subject: |
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| KB has never played with a PG that has the passing ability that Russell has. If Russell, and its a big "IF", can break down opposing D's, KB is going to have a field day. I think no matter what, KB is not going to have to work as hard on the offensive end as he normally does. Hopefully, this will keep him injury free. Byron better keep his minutes down! |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2015 6:51 am Post subject: |
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| kobeandgary wrote: | | LakerEric wrote: | | He stubbornly prefers to attempt fadeaways. Now more frequent than ever. Beautiful when they are hitting but completely inefficient shot when it's not in the post. That and his penchant for dribbling through triple teams have been the most frustrating part of his career. He is great indeed and that stubbornness has won him titles. Still, he would've surpassed Jordan in titles and Lebron in stats if he was more efficient. His work ethic is on par with the greats ever but his penchant for controlling the ball as a non-point has been paralyzing many times during his great career. Off the ball he would've been a complete terror which is scary to think about. He never found that balance consistently. It is what it is. 5 titles in 7 tries is remarkable. Magic who was the most efficient ever was 5 of 9 tries but the HIV cut him short but he went against the great Larry Bird whose career was cut short as well with back problems. Bird was 3 for 5 and he was just as balanced as Magic. Kobe had the tools to be the best ever but IMHO didn't acknowledge his weaknesses and imposed his strengths to the utmost. Commendable and an all-time great but could've made it a ton easier on himself. |
I don't believe Kobe ever played on a single team that would have won a ring with him being an off-ball player, and I believe if he hadn't played exactly like he did he would have won less. |
Well, it's fairly obvious why you'd believe that. |
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fiendishoc
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| Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2015 6:58 am Post subject: |
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| If you go to NBA.com Play Type stats and sort players by off screen efficiency, it really takes a long time to get to Kobe. |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2015 7:08 am Post subject: |
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| fiendishoc wrote: | | If you go to NBA.com Play Type stats and sort players by off screen efficiency, it really takes a long time to get to Kobe. |
To be fair, I believe that is based on last year's stats where he was just atypically awful all around relative to his typical abilities.
IMO, the point of having him play off the ball, is to extend his time on the court. |
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evetssteve10
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| Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2015 7:56 am Post subject: |
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| kobeandgary wrote: | | LakerEric wrote: | | He stubbornly prefers to attempt fadeaways. Now more frequent than ever. Beautiful when they are hitting but completely inefficient shot when it's not in the post. That and his penchant for dribbling through triple teams have been the most frustrating part of his career. He is great indeed and that stubbornness has won him titles. Still, he would've surpassed Jordan in titles and Lebron in stats if he was more efficient. His work ethic is on par with the greats ever but his penchant for controlling the ball as a non-point has been paralyzing many times during his great career. Off the ball he would've been a complete terror which is scary to think about. He never found that balance consistently. It is what it is. 5 titles in 7 tries is remarkable. Magic who was the most efficient ever was 5 of 9 tries but the HIV cut him short but he went against the great Larry Bird whose career was cut short as well with back problems. Bird was 3 for 5 and he was just as balanced as Magic. Kobe had the tools to be the best ever but IMHO didn't acknowledge his weaknesses and imposed his strengths to the utmost. Commendable and an all-time great but could've made it a ton easier on himself. |
I don't believe Kobe ever played on a single team that would have won a ring with him being an off-ball player, and I believe if he hadn't played exactly like he did he would have won less. |
Kobe no matter what he did on a personal level has zero chance of having more than 5 titles. He has maximized every ounce of talent and team he's been on. He's also the only player ever in the 30k6k6k club so not sure about what nonsense you are spewing
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"Bryant has been the second best player in the NBA for over a decade, but the number 1 player changes every other year. Somehow the number 1 player always seems to fall down the list but Kobe just never moves up. ". The Art of Hating Kobe Bryant |
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Kava
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| Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2015 8:13 am Post subject: |
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| kobeandgary wrote: | | LakerEric wrote: | | He stubbornly prefers to attempt fadeaways. Now more frequent than ever. Beautiful when they are hitting but completely inefficient shot when it's not in the post. That and his penchant for dribbling through triple teams have been the most frustrating part of his career. He is great indeed and that stubbornness has won him titles. Still, he would've surpassed Jordan in titles and Lebron in stats if he was more efficient. His work ethic is on par with the greats ever but his penchant for controlling the ball as a non-point has been paralyzing many times during his great career. Off the ball he would've been a complete terror which is scary to think about. He never found that balance consistently. It is what it is. 5 titles in 7 tries is remarkable. Magic who was the most efficient ever was 5 of 9 tries but the HIV cut him short but he went against the great Larry Bird whose career was cut short as well with back problems. Bird was 3 for 5 and he was just as balanced as Magic. Kobe had the tools to be the best ever but IMHO didn't acknowledge his weaknesses and imposed his strengths to the utmost. Commendable and an all-time great but could've made it a ton easier on himself. |
I don't believe Kobe ever played on a single team that would have won a ring with him being an off-ball player, and I believe if he hadn't played exactly like he did he would have won less. |
Might have something to do with the fact that Kobe's really never had a true PG to play along side with. The Triangle under Phil didn't require it and D. Fish wasn't known for his passing ability.
I agree with OP because D Russ is a true ball distributor and will find Kobe if he wants to make cuts/post up/ or come off screens. Not sure if he wants to though. He's never had to play off ball because he's talented enough to score over double teams and would kill single defenders. Well, Kobe's not going to get double teamed and he hangs onto the ball too long to size up his single defender. Still very much a capable scorer - but his role has got to change for his and the team's good. |
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SuperboyReformed
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Posts: 4083
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| Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2015 9:20 pm Post subject: |
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| non-player zealot wrote: | His first screen was set for him by Karl Malone in his first all star game and that worked out just fine if my memory serves me correctly. They gave each other dap after Kobe accepted the screen and hit the shot. Malone had nothing but nice things to say about Kobe's graciousness after the game.
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lo freakin l.
i don't think folks are getting this one! which makes it even more  .
first person to accurately address this post gets a green banana. |
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